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No, the Chinese didn't float a squadron of balloons over Boston tonight
By adamg on Mon, 02/13/2023 - 10:05pm
![Starlink satellites](https://www.universalhub.com/files/styles/main_image/public/images/2023/starlink5.jpg?itok=yYukMIYU)
Sam RP looked up around 6:20 p.m. and saw a shimmering string of white lights in the sky.
Darryl Houston reports it was a flyover of Elon Musk's Starlink satellites, which are only going to become more and more visible as the company launches hundreds, thousands more of the things.
Moza Bulgareci also spotted them:
![Row of Starlink satellites](/images/2023/2starlink2.jpg)
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It isn't Chinese balloons
but can we shoot it down anyway, please? Starlink is a crime, a defacement of public property. We have one window on the universe, and Elon is scratching it up with his pocketknife.
Never mind the light pollution. Elon is siding with Russia
against America’s allies.
And those allies would be?
And those allies would be?
Pollution
I didn’t propose shooting down all the Starlink sky-litter because it’s one of Space Karen’s vanities, but because it defaces something immeasurably precious that no one owns. If he sells Starlink to finance the next act of his twitter-comedy, it will still be there, and its new owners will no doubt continue to trash the night sky.
How is providing Ukraine with
Starlink "siding with Russia"? Curious how you came to that conclusion?
Elon's siding with Russia?
Is that why he provided Starlink to the Ukrainian government and more importantly it's military at the start of the "special operation?"
I mean, we're literally talking about Starlink here. Not exactly the example of "Elon sides with Russia."
Elon Musk
amplified Russian disinformation on the far reaching online platform he now owns: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/elon-musk-fake-story-n...
That should be at least a little concerning.
And by "provided Starlink"
you mean "got paid as a contractor to supply it by the US government, and then deliberately restricted it to hamper Ukraine's wartime capabilities", right?
I'd say "doing as little as you can to help Ukraine in order to maintain your government contractor status, while also publicly and privately trying to hamper the Ukraine war effort" is fairly close to siding with Russia, honestly.
"not militarizing Starlink"
Starlink has said it's fine to use the use the system for communications, but drew the line at being used in weapons systems (bomber drones). Other companies are encouraged to do make similar decisions when working with the US military.
By siding with Russia
You mean is continuing to fund Starlink service for free to the Ukranian government, right?
https://www.engadget.com/elon-musk-spacex-keep-funding-ukraine-starlink-...
Your link is to a story from last October.
Try to keep up with the news. As the story notes, Musk also pushed for a Munich-style appeasement settlement between Ukraine and Russia. He's a Putin taint-smoocher.
So Ukraine is still getting access to Starlink for free
Got it.
How can Elon be a Putin taint-smoocher (as you say) AND provide starlink to Ukraine for free? That makes zero sense, but spin it to fit your narrative/obsessions all you want.
Whose side are you on?
Never mind that Musk tried last year to renege on providing Starlink service to Ukraine entirely but quickly reversed himself amidst a howl of international outrage. He's hardly footing the bill himself: 80% of Starlink hardware now in use in Ukraine has been funded by the US, the UK, Poland, the Ukrainian military, and crowdfunding by activists and volunteers -- to Musk's profit.
Right now, Musk is hobbling Ukraine's use of Starlink to defend itself from a war-crime-committing authoritarian invader that seeks to annex a sovereign nation in blatant violation of international law -- specifically, by preventing Ukraine from using Starlink to control drone strikes at a moment when Russia is mounting a huge new offensive.
Did you notice whom Edgelord Plutocrat chose to hang with at the World Cup and the Super Bowl? Do you really think that man is a committed friend to democracy?
Are you really having trouble understanding how he's siding against our ally here?
First
Ukraine is not part of NATO, correct? Hence they are not a US ally. Also, Musk wanted DoD to pay for Ukraine’s use of Starlink. DoD wouldn’t and now Musk has control of what he does with Ukraine’s free terminals.
Second
I don’t agree with Elon, but getting all rabid because he’s not providing full bandwidth doesn’t mean he loves Putin. You understand that, correct? He’s still providing the network for free on Starlink’s dime.
For what it’s worth, I hope Ukraine kicks Russia’s ass.
In what world do you live in that
NATO members are our only allies? Do you think that the US is sending billions in armaments and other aid to one of our enemies? Did you watch the recent SOTU where the Ukrainian ambassador was a special guest? Let me quote Biden's remarks for you:
"I spoke from this chamber one year ago, just days after Vladimir Putin unleashed his brutal war against Ukraine. A murderous assault, evoking images of the death and destruction Europe suffered in World War II. Putin’s invasion has been a test for the ages. A test for America. A test for the world. Would we stand for the most basic of principles? Would we stand for sovereignty? Would we stand for the right of people to live free from tyranny? Would we stand for the defense of democracy?
For such a defense matters to us because it keeps the peace and prevents open season for would-be aggressors to threaten our security and prosperity. One year later, we know the answer. Yes, we would. And yes, we did. Together, we did what America always does at our best. We led. We united NATO and built a global coalition. We stood against Putin’s aggression. We stood with the Ukrainian people. Tonight, we are once again joined by Ukraine’s Ambassador to the United States. She represents not just her nation, but the courage of her people.
Ambassador, America is united in our support for your country. We will stand with you as long as it takes. Our nation is working for more freedom, more dignity, and more peace, not just in Europe, but everywhere."
That's the CiC talking to a global audience. What kind of numbnut doesn't believe Ukraine is our ally, and we theirs?
Not one ally reference in Biden’s speech
Hm, that’s weird probably because Ukraine is not a US ally. It’s not a debate, it is just facts. If they were an ally, we’d be at war right now. I’m embarrassed that I even need to spell this out for you -
When it comes to the United States Allies, the organization NATO (North Atlantic Treaty Organization), is designed to define precisely which countries are allies of the United States. Here are the current members of NATO along with the year they joined:
United States of America — 1949 (founded)
Belgium — 1949
Canada — 1949
Denmark — 1949
France — 1949
Iceland — 1949
Italy — 1949
Luxembourg — 1949
Netherlands — 1949
Norway — 1949
Portugal — 1949
United Kingdom — 1949
Greece — 1952
Turkey — 1952
Germany — 1955
Spain — 1982
Czech Republic — 1999
Hungary — 1999
Poland — 1999
Bulgaria — 2004
Estonia — 2004
Latvia — 2004
Lithuania — 2004
Romania — 2004
Slovakia — 2004
Slovenia — 2004
Croatia — 2009
Montenegro — 2017
North Macedonia — 2020
I can't tell if you're arguing in
bad faith or just skipped history after sixth grade, but your concept of what constitutes an ally is childishly thin. Simply put, our alliances go way beyond formal military alliances like NATO.
Practically every major conflict the US has fought directly in since WW II was on behalf of countries that were not formal military allies: South Korea, Vietnam and Kuwait, to name three. And we have supported countless other conflicts with arms and other aid, just as we are doing in Ukraine's fight to stay independent, without needing a formal military alliance to act.
Japan isn't a NATO member
Are you going to argue that Japan is not a strategic ally of the United States? Or the Philippines? Defense pacts are NOT the only form of an alliance.
I’m Ukrainian. I assume you are not.
Ukraine has existed for thousands of years. There’s been an embassy in Ukraine since 1992 and the US has had relationships with Ukraine before that. Being part of NATO isn’t the only way you form an alliance with someone. Just because you didn’t notice doesn’t mean the State Department didn’t.
Using that logic
DirectTV, the ISS, and the Hubble telescope are also "crimes". Maybe the Boston Licensing Board can prosecute them?
It can be more than one thing
My brother lives within an hour of Salt Lake City, but without Starlink he wouldn't have internet.
Unfortunately, just like outer space, internet access is not yet seen as a public utility (like electricity). So, we're not getting it to everyone everywhere. Starlink is the best satellite solution that bridges that gap for now. I hate the privatization of public space, but if that's the world we are currently going to live in because government officials are too weak to stand up to powerful corporate "voices" then, at the very least, when we're getting some public good from the service, we're going to have to see that bright side until things change.
What’s the over/under on Y’all Qaeda starting to shoot
their ARs at random lights in the sky? I give it two weeks. One way or another, “It’s aliens. “
I hope he picks his toys up
I hope he picks his toys up when done playing and doesn't leave them for the dog I mean the sea life to suffer from. Entitlement of the rich.
SpaceX isn't the only company doing this
There's at least one other company with plans to launch its own cluster of tens of thousands of low orbiting satellites.
They, and Musk, are gambling that they can outcompete the Comcasts and Verizons of the world in the market for Internet services.
Let's hope they're wrong. If they fail to make any money, all the satellites will fall out of orbit and burn up in the atmosphere, and the night sky will once again be clear.
It would
Also allow access to the internet for rural areas, undeveloped and developing areas of the world at a much lower cost.
Clear if you can get far enough away from urban
light pollution. That's getting harder and harder to do.
Everything will have its place
Satellite upload rates are garbage. They barely qualify as "broadband" rates and if I had to investigate, I bet I could find where the definition of broadband was devolved to allow satellite providers to fit in the category OR that they're falsifying upload rates to meet the "broadband" definition. If you have a good 4G cell phone signal, you'd almost be better off uploading via cell phone. Fortunately for satellite internet providers, the dominant use case for internet is download, which can be as fast as very basic cable home internet services.
But their main competitor isn't going to be home cable/fiber internet. Satellites will never keep up with the download rate and data bloat of the modern internet. It'll be with 5G phone services, where reaching those customers "off the grid", as it were, will be ideal for wireless-based communication. If 5G providers get their antennas in places that reach more rural/isolated households, then they'll prove much more stable and with better upload rates (and likely better download rates) than satellite providers and make satellites a more niche application (like maritime networking).
Right now, in the "last-mile" race, 5G to every field and valley is far more expensive than developing a single network of satellites to hit the disconnected masses all at once. So, 5G providers are trying to cover all the places they get the most bang-for-their-buck...people on the go in places that also have great wired broadband already. They're gifting all the rural users to satellite only for now.
Will that be enough to afford the creation and upkeep of a network of satellites? Who knows just yet. There's been a LOT of sign-ups with Starlink and the other satellite providers as they've opened their doors to new customers. Of course, if the government just handled the cost of it all and anyone/everyone could use Starlink as needed, there'd be a lot more value in it for everyone and maybe we'd even see some sort of hybrid network of 5G/Starlink base stations start going up across the nation to allow cell phone providers to keep you online at all times if you want to.
But, truly *public* internet is both one of our biggest and least of our problems at the same time. And there's enough money at play, that our current rules on money being speech means we won't be addressing it as a nation any time soon.
low orbit satellites >
low orbit satellites > geostationary orbit satellites
therefore your long argument is invalid
meh. "We wouldn't need satellites if we had towers everywhere."
We know that, but thanks.
5G won’t reach rural areas. Internet should be a public good.
5G and faster cell networks use a frequency range that’s easily blocked by trees and buildings. They also need to connect to fiber optic internet connections on the land side to have enough bandwidth. And the range of one cell is about 1000 feet, so… all reasons you will never see 5G in sparsely populated areas. (Want to learn more? This six year old article has a good overview.)
The internet was developed for about 25 years by government-funded military and scientific research prior to being given away to private telecom operators to do with what they pleased (this was the Telecommunications Act of 1994). All of the technologies it relies upon, from the semiconductor up through the signaling protocol, were developed and paid for by the people of the United States. We footed the entire R&D bill, then, when it finally became a viable business, our electeds gave it away to their capitalist cronies to run at a profit. “Scam” is too kind a word for this level of abject corruption.
The Internet should once again be a public utility.
You're thinking mmWave
Mid-band 5G is great for rural areas and with just a bit of investment, half of all rural customers could be on 5G.
Here's something newer than six years old describing it:
https://www.fiercewireless.com/5g/5g-fwa-study-supports-bid-more-mid-ban...
They don't need balloons to
They don't need balloons to spy around here
To check visibility times...
You can check findstarlink.com for visible passes. There are a few good ones this week, including tonight around 6:30pm.