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We finally had a debate gotcha moment
By adamg on Thu, 09/10/2009 - 6:02pm
Maria Stephanos, who felt it important to ask a debate question about Tom Menino's speaking style, asked all the candidates when the last time they took the T was. Michael Flaherty said "just the other day." Stephanos didn't seem to believe him, asked him where he went. "Downtown," he replied. And then she asked him how much a ride costs.
I don't know.
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Talking Points
Probably because it wasn't in his talking points. Flaherty talks like a lawyer, Sam Yoon has some passion.
I don't know either
I take it every day and I don't know either. I have a monthly pass. I hope I'm getting a good deal.
I watched.
Watch it! He was lying. He drives.
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That's a bit too black and white
I drive, too. Doesn't mean I never take the T (I can also tell you how much it costs, but my mind is full of information I don't tend to use on a daily basis).
a person
can take the T sometimes and drive sometimes. That isn't the issue here.
I watched and I think he was lying when he said he took the T. I cannot prove it but I watched closely and I thought he was lying. Beyond that, I don't know how he gets around. Officer of the court, harumf.
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CharlieCards
My wife occasionally takes the T and says she has no idea how much it cost. She puts some money on her card and then just keeps using it until it runs out. It's not like the old days when you knew how much an individual token cost - unless, of course you were Mitt Romney.
"Gotcha Moment"? or not so much
You're walking it back in every comment you make on the post and every comment you reply to. What gives?
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I was....
....thinking the same thing. As I watched it live I could not believe how obvious of a lie he was caught in. Then seeing Adams post I thought I didnt imagine it. Now every post since then steps away from the fact that Flaherty looked like a liar. If he had said he had not taken the T lately that would have been fine, but each answer he gave was more and more evident that he was lieing. "...the other day.....downtown". Why would you lie?
Idiots always double down on
Idiots always double down on lies and stupidity, as they're afraid to look dumb.
This really puts him in a bad light. Why lie on such a really trivial thing? And what does that say when something bigger comes up?
I was looking at Flaherty, but he just lost my vote.
I always have a stocked card
I always have a stocked card and have no clue what a fare is. Its different depending on who you are and if your taking a bus or train.
Before I had a stocked card I had a pass and never kept track of fares then either.
I did not see the debate and it sounds like he was caught in a lie but not knowing the price of a mbta ride is not the gotcha moment youve been waiting for.
I use a Charlie Card and
I use a Charlie Card and would have to guess at the exact fare (so my answer would be "I'm not sure. I just use a Charlie Card"), but I sure as heck know what stop I got off even if I don't know how much I paid to get there.
Flaherty on the MBTA
"Not an avid T rider, put $20 in machine, wanted $5 disposable card. Big advocate of T, not a big fan of the 15 Sacagawea coins I got back."
just got this off michaels twitter, and i hate those sacagawea coins too!
regardless
i'm sure he has taken the T at some point in the recent past, and it doesn't take an "avid T rider" to know that the MBTA is in serious need of improvements.
Michael Tweeted:
"Not an avid T rider, put $20, wanted $5 card. Big advocate of T, not a big fan of the 15 Sacagawea coins"
Michael Flaherty responds
Via Twitter:
Sacagaweas?
Really? All of the newly minted $1 coins made for circulation that stock the machines are these these days, not Sacagaweas...
The US Mint hasn't circulated Sacagaweas since 2002 (printing only a few million for sales to collectors only) because they weren't adopted as well as hoped initially and then the President series started in 2007.
always snarky
but not always right.
Why let facts get in the way of things?
http://www.bostonphoenix.com/boston/news_features/...
Circulation not the same as minting
Lots of coins are still in circulation, whether or not they mint them anymore...have a look at the coins in your pocket, most are not from 2009 or recent years.
I didn't find this a gotcha moment at all. I do find it amazing how quickly and casually people label Flaherty a liar because he didn't know the price of the T. Somewhat unjustified. I was on it 7 days ago, used a charlie card, but don't remember the cost.
According to this link there
According to this link there were a BILLION produced in 2000, which combined with the other years puts these coins in the BILLIONS category. There are 300 million people in America, if there are a two BILLION coins then that is about 6 coins produced PER PERSON in the US. Your quote makes it sound like there were only a few million ever made, this is not true. The Government made a huge push early on to get these coins into the system so many vending machines were made to accept the coins. Is it really that inconceivable that the machines may still be vending some of the 2001 era coins? The entire point of the presidential 1 dollar program was to renew interest in the coin in hopes we could get rid of the paper dollar soon.
Your use of that ONE sentence from the link makes it seem like Flaherty was talking about special commemorative coins that retail for 20 dollars a piece.
Not what I was getting at
The point is that most of these machines aren't spitting out old coins, they MBTA isn't in the business of collecting older $1 coins, they just get fresh circulation ones from the bank most of the time (and they're so underused that the bank usually has tons of this year's minting). You can usually get some of the nicest barely circulated coins from the Post Office and the MBTA because the machine is *stocked* with these for change and nobody's putting them in for the MBTA to recycle. There's also attrition as older coins are taken out of the system by users and by the Mint itself, so I doubt there are a billion 2000 Sacagawea's still floating out there.
Want to prove me wrong? Go to an MBTA machine and buy a $5 card with a $20 and see what you get back. Post the pictures and let's see...I'm actually intrigued now. I'm playing a hunch based on past experience that you'll get mostly Presidents back.
I'm just saying that I doubt Flaherty has 2 $1 Sacagawea's to rub together in his pocket right now.
Well Flaherty is behind the
Well Flaherty is behind the times anyway in that regard. Who carries cash with them anymore I use my credit card on the machines (when they work)
I will do so
But your argumentative tone and overall angst IS just snarky. Stick to the facts and you will have a better argument. It makes little sense to debate something that many people and the media have now said is true.
But to play your game I will do so and then have to go to a coinstar machine ( I have one at the local supermarket) and get my money back, minus a fee, but it will all be worth it. I will post a picture as soon as I can.
I am still undecided in this race (between Sam "I have never done anything" Yoon and Michael "Am I really open and transparent" Flaherty, but your tone all over this blog is that you are so far superior to anybody else. It is quite comical most of the time, but now it is just plain annoying.
While your on my side of
While your on my side of this discussion about coins even a obligatory name in the name box woulda been nice :) Makes it seem less like a drive by comment that way
Sacagawea's Aside
reading the blogs here, the Herald and the Globe it appears to me that from people paying attention Michael Flaherty appears to be running last among the challengers. However, most reports have him far ahead as the man to win the runoff. Would be curious on opinions of why that is.
Are people really paying that little attention and voting on affinity/name recognition/geography? Is he offering something I'm missing? Or is it just that fraction of "old Boston" that feels we need a little new blood?
Its all about voter
Its all about voter demographics. If Flaherty's claim to fame were wooing young voters he would have issues, it is not. I am actually impressed by the Menino fans that make their way to the blogs myself, I did not expect so many wired residents to be pro long term mayor.
Just think about the past presidential elections and how President Ron Paul is now in the white house after beating his democratic challenger Dennis Kuchinich after Howard Dean, who won in 2004, decided to only serve one term.
Interesting Sidetrack
"Just think about the past presidential elections and how President Ron Paul is now in the white house after beating his democratic challenger Dennis Kuchinich after Howard Dean, who won in 2004, decided to only serve one term."
Pretty funny.
As one who has sometimes put far too much stock into who's hot on the internet (Paul for one; going back a ways further, Harry Browne) I'd be interested in opinions concerning when the internet will truly become an important factor in elections.
Or has it already, and I've just been paying attention to the wrong candidates?
Suldog
http://jimsuldog.blogspot.com
Oh I believe this is the
Oh I believe this is the first mayors race that is important on the internet while 2004 was the first time it was really important at the National level. 2008 was the first time web 2.0 was a huge factor in at the National level (McCain VS Obama would in my opinion never have happened in 1996) where the guys who bucked the system beat and incorporated the system. The problem lies with people who comment and people who blog. Yoon will win every internet vote hands down but even those who support him would never try to tell us that he is going to blow everyone out of the water in any election. A Sam Yoon victory online is huge, a Sam Yoon victory in real life will be by a slim margin if he wins.
Older voters, working class voters, non tech savy voters all avoid commenting online. Their voices are not heard. Interestingly the tech people tend to be under represented in phone polls because they do not have land lines and are cell phone dependent (which explains why Obama dominated online while Hillary seemed to do well early on in voter polls.) We need a new polling system that gets both sides.
Sam Yoon
Sam Yoon won't ride the T because it's "broken." He's waiting to bring in his friends in Japan to fix it.
Give me a break.
I don't care if Menino or McCrea or Flaherty don't ride the T. But dont' tell me the answer to our problem is Japan.
I want someone who is going to stand up for the people of our city, our state, and our country.
Did we watch a different debate?
Yoon said he has a CharlieCard. And it was McCrea who wanted to hire the head of the Tokyo subway system (and who made the crack about enticing him here by promising to have DiceK pitch in the World Series).
Nice try, though.
I thought it was worse when
I thought it was worse when Menino tried to say he rides the Silver Line. As if he wouldn't have had a picture of himself riding the T in the Herald already.
Yep
He rides the Silver Line of development bribes $ all the way downtown