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South Enders want answers from Scientologists
By adamg on Mon, 02/11/2008 - 7:56pm
The church recently bought the old Alexandra Hotel at Washington Street and Mass. Ave. to use as its Boston headquarters. John Keith posts a note from a South End activist who was not happy to read about Sunday's anti-Scientology protest outside the church's current Back Bay digs:
... I hope this is not a common occurrence. We certainly don't need more noise pollution in our neighborhood. I am trying to understand why they are protesting and why they are wearing masks. I'm hoping the Church will explain this at upcoming neighborhood meetings. 150 protesters would be a fairly large number for our neighborhood. That would jam up that intersection quickly. ...
In general, however, the note expresses the hope the new headquarters will help bring new retail and even cut down on gang warfare in the area.
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Comments
Yeah, letting a cult move in
Yeah, letting a cult move in will totally improve the neighborhood.
Because Believing in
Because Believing in theatans and Xenu is so much different then believing in a man walking on water, turning water into wine, and being lifted to the heavens after he died....
I'll be the first one to agree that Scientology has some really weird beliefs, that just don;t jive.
But lets not kid ourselves that Christianity is just as weird with it's fables. It just has the benefit of 2000 years of indoctrination.
There are significant differences
Yes, every belief system is weird, but that is not my issue with Scientology.
My problem is their systematic and documented history of intimidation and mind control, and the fact that you have to PAY for their literature and 'classes.'
Say what you will about Christianity, at least they don't charge for bibles.
Free Bibles?
Last time I checked, Borders was still charging for Bibles. Then again, they weren't giving away "Dianetics," either.
I guess you never stayed in a hotel
See, there's these people called the Gideons, and...
Well, suffice it to say they don't come after you and picket your house if you take the book with you.
Free Bibles
While retail outlets charge for bibles, anybody can walk inside most Protestant churches, sit down, and read the bibles that are copiously distributed throughout the house. And it's likely that no one will try to give you a sales pitch while you're doing so.
If you can't find a free one for your house, just drop me a line. I'll sport the price for you.
Suldog
http://jimsuldog.blogspot.com
However, Christians don't
However, Christians don't ...
Frame their critics for bomb threats
Kill their parishoners
Infiltrate the government
Encourage the "destruction" of anyone who stands in their way
Or destroy families
The best part is, they're tax exempt despite all this. Tell your new neighbors what you think of them after a bit of research.
There goes the whole
There goes the whole neighborhood...
The original post is
The original post is distressingly (and almost willfully) naive. Is it genuine? They had no questions that couldn't be answered after 5 minutes with Google or Wikipedia. Here are some phrases I would suggest:
Operation Snow White
Operation Freakout
Project Chanology
Ans specifically relating to last weekend's protests:
Lisa McPherson
Don't be distressed...
I'm trying to start a dialogue. I know how to Google. Don't worry. I now know more about this organization than I ever cared to know. Hopefully you will participate in the upcoming community meetings with the City and voice your concerns. Otherwise, your comments are meaningless.
YOUR comments are
YOUR comments are meaningless, pleb.
Exchanging one kind of blight for another
This will not improve the South End neighborhood in any way. Instead of an abandoned building, you will instead have a fraudulent business falsely claiming to be a 'Church', which may at any time decide to dehydrate and starve one of its members to death in the basement rather than allowing her to freely leave the organization.
Xenu
Hey, they may be wierd, but they do have a penchant for restoring historic buildings to their former glory. See the lengthy article in the New Yorker of a few weeks back. There was an amandoned embassy in DC that they bought and fixed up very tastefully and then turned into a church or whatever they call it. They also provide creepy amusement with their efforts to "analyze" you or whatever it is with their funny little machine that tells how many alien spirits are stuck in you. Best advice, however - don't go inside! If they are going to fix up that derelict abandoned eyesore I say applaud them. Down with Xenu!.
I've gone to the current
I've gone to the current Boston "church" and was administered their Stress Test. I was stress free, the scientologist guy was a little disheartened by my lack of response on their little machine thing. Then I watched their recruitment video. That immediately cemented it's Cult status in my mind. The video suggested that the viewer should just kill them self if they don't join Scientology because that is what life will be like if they don't join.
It was all very obnoxious.
if you live close enough to
if you live close enough to the alexandra hotel to hear protestors i would imagine they would be the least of your worries
In what way?
I do not understand what you mean by this.
Well it used to be extremely
Well it used to be extremely "ghetto" on that corner. It's still not the nicest place at night, but it's much better than it was.
You have Toro a block away with people valet parking their SUV's to eat $20/plate tapas...
my impression
Having lived in the Back Bay for a few years, this was the first Sci. protest that I've witnessed. When we walked by, they were fairly quiet and peaceful. They distributed leaflets on cars within a 2 block radius, which were promptly removed by Sci. workers after the protesters disbursed.
During 4th of July fireworks celebrations, the Sci.'s have blared L.R.H. propaganda from thir HQ for several hours, which was annoying and ear-splitting, and they certainly solicit the neighbors quite a bit.
Free Personality Test
Hubbardbot: Would you like a personality test? It's Free!
Teenage Me: (best robot voice) No thank you ... I do not have a personality to test.
Teenage me
"You're testin my personality right now, fella! Whatsamatter? You get kicked outta the fuckin Krishnas?"
Scientologists are so goddamn creepy.
to answer the question from before
More protests are planned. I know that. And they are planned for every Scientology building too. It's because people don't want this organization to keep feeding off the communities it lives it. It gives nothing back.
Yes, quite the nuisance
With such a large facility, perhaps the South End will begin to resemble Clearwater, FL, and you'll never have to worry about anyone speaking against Scientology.
Sure, some of your new neighbors may begin turning up dead, and you may be seen as a "supressive person" or "SP" and may be subjected to having the evil alien living inside you be set free with the help of a Colt .45 pistol, at least there won't be any pesky protesters.
Copley Sq
I know it's not the same thing, but, geez, I've had just about enough of Greenpeace, today.
ShuT UP!!!!!!!!!!!
Regarding my original post
I'm not sure if anyone on this forum actually lives in this neighborhood. If you do live near the Alexandra Hotel, then you should know that people have been shot in broad daylight here. The former Store 24 (diagonally across from the Alexandra Hotel) was held up at gunpoint so many times, I lost track. A young boy was even shot in the leg from a gunman outside the store, while buying groceries inside. Another shooting took place in the barber shop just past the Alexandra, right in broad daylight. When's the last time you used Ramsey Park? Never? Remember Biggie Gaines? He was the 23 year old basketball coach that was shot dead in Ramsey Park right in front of his young players. His crime? Being on the wrong turf.
Clearly, I'm trying to find something positive over the arrival of the Church of Scientology. If we can survive gang members, then we can survive Tom Cruise's secret service. Live and let live. I don't care if they want to worship rabbits in that building, so long as they improve the streetscape and put in commercial retail on the ground floor, that's all we can ask. Would I prefer a boutique hotel, or condos there? Of course, but I don't have 4.5 Millon dollars. The court had its chance to put the property into receivership, and backed down. All we can do at this point is to insist that the promise for mainstream commercial use of the ground floor retail space is realized.
Mayor Menino is very much in favor of the Church of Scientology's plans to renovate the Alexandra. He is baffled by any opposition. Perhaps, as some here have suggested, the Mayor should simply "Google" the Church of Scientology to see why some people are in opposition, or better yet, maybe residents should pick up the phone and call City Hall to voice their concern.
So, if you have objections to the Church of Scientology's plans to move to the Alexandra Hotel, then you have an obligation to contact your city councilor and your neighborhood association to voice your concerns. You should also plan to attend the community meetings. Anonymous comments on an obscure website, either for or against are useless. Things don't happen by themselves. If you read the newspapers, you will see that residents have a huge say in these matters. Just think of the Biolab. Residents spoke up, and they are still battling the issue.
And I did learn why the protesters were wearing masks on Sunday.
That's not an option for us.
this isn't a forum soley dedicated to the South End...
"Anonymous comments on an obscure website, either for or against are useless."
Thanks for sharing that!
I don't understand your point.
Unless you're saying that people come here to voice their strong opinions on other people's lives and neighborhoods, but don't plan to do anything about it. That much I figured out already. And, you're welcome.
If this were coming to my neighborhood in Davis Square ...
I would be vigorously opposing it. Unfortunately it's coming to yours, instead. I, and the other non-Boston folks posting here, can't do a whole lot more than give you friendly advice, which you can either heed or ignore as you see fit.
I haven't seen much friendly advice.
I would love friendly advice. I'm just a bit surprised so many non-South enders (let alone non-Bostonians) would be so interested in this. What good would vigorously opposing it do anyway? Don't you think we would lose any negotiating stance if we did that?
Why to oppose this
Because if you can prevent it, perhaps the city can force a sale to a real commercial or residential developer instead, who will listen to the neighborhood instead of doing what a dead megalomaniac tells them to do.
It's too late
It's my understanding the sale already went through. Unless someone knows something I don't about how these transactions work. There is also the religious use clause: http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/housing/housing_rluipa.htm
Friendly advice...
Hmm... how about "I recommend you have conversations with your friends about this, especially those who have children. Scientology is a cult that preys on the young. If you live close to the future HQ, then you and people you know are likely to be approached by the Scientologists. They won't say what they are right off. First they'll offer you a free intelligence test or some such, and they'll probably smile a lot and flatter you. I recommend alerting any teenagers you know that people who come on with this approach are trying to induct them into a cult. I also recommend you keep a lookout for new people joining community groups in that area, as Scientologists try to proselytize in many ways."
Yes, it's probably too late to stop the sale. You are likely to have the Scientologist HQ in your neighborhood for quite a while. It's going to cause disruption and present a danger to local youth.
Is everything they're doing legal?
From reading these posts, and other posts online, it seems fairly clear that so many people view the Church of Scientology as a massive scam to brainwash people and rob them of their life savings. So, isn't this fraud and isn't that illegal? Isn't it also illegal for a non-profit to make a profit? How do they get around it? What is the government's position on it? Isn't this fairly easy to investigate? And if this church is more powerful than the US government, then aren't you more worried about our government's ability to protect us from terrorists - if they can't protect us from Scientologists? I don't get it.
Illegal and fraudulent activity
There is plenty of illegal, fraudulent activity out there. One of the best ways to make sure it keeps happening is secrecy mixed with violence. That's how the mob does it, and that's how Scientology does it.
Currently, the COS is legal in this country. But so is a lot of fraudulent behavior. I work for a defense contractor, so believe me I know what I'm talking about.
Scientology is not considered a legitimate religion in Germany, Belgium, France, Great Britain, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Spain, Israel, or Mexico, and probably shouldn't be here either. They got their tax exemption in 1993 after a long campaign of blackmail against IRS officials. Scientology is a racket that, according to some governments, poses a threat to democracy.
Personally, I'm not nearly as worried about the US Government's inability to protect us from terrorism - terrorists are less numerous, and a much less serious threat, than Scientologists. Sure, the security follies at the airport aren't really doing much, but then again there really aren't that many people out there trying to blow up airplanes, either, so it doesn't much matter what a cluster-fuck the DHS is.
I could insult all of al Qaeda here, and post my address, and nothing would happen. But if you insult the Scientologists, and they know who you are, they're likely to come after you. That's why people wear masks and give fake names when they picket. Are people so seriously concerned about terrorists that they wear masks to criticize them? No.
Message to WSANA from Anonymous
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGbbQGV7J1Q
Hello members of Worcester Square Area Neighborhood Association. This is a message to you from Anonymous.
It has come to the attention of Anonymous that you have concerns about the quote unquote Church of Scientology moving into your Worcester Square neighborhood in Boston. While your concerns of having protests carried out in your historic neighborhood are both valid and understandable, your concern mustn't stop there.
As our organized peaceful protests around the world on February 10th, 2008 have shown, the reach and determination of Anonymous is vast, wide, and ever growing. Once you have been educated on the history and past and present practices of the Church of Scientology, your concerns will also grow beyond the numerous protests which will take place, not only by anonymous, but also by the many groups and individuals whom have been long term critics of the illegal and inhumane practices of the Church of Scientology.
Everyone has the right to their beliefs and religion. Anonymous does not oppose these rights. Anonymous does not oppose Scientology as a religion. Anonymous opposes the Church of Scientology organizations history of murder, deception, attacks on free speech, tax exempt status and its' litigiousness. Those who leave the Church of Scientology will be "disconnected" from their friends and families who remain with the church. Speak out against the church and they will harass you by labeling you as an "SP", or suppressive person, and by marking you as fair game. The Church of Scientology organizations Fair Game order, in the words of Scientologys founder L. Ron Hubbard states and I quote, "Any SP May be deprived of property or injured by any means, by any Scientologist without any discipline of the Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed." According to the church of scientology the fair game order was abandoned in 1968 yet these activities are still taking place today, forty years later. These issues and many many more, are the practices of the Church of Scientology which Anonymous does oppose. It is the belief of Anonymous that once you educate yourself to these facts, the hundreds of planned protests will be the least of your concerns.
The protest on February 10th was only the beginning. Several more are already in the planning stages. Anonymous hopes that once you are educated of the practices of the Church of Scientology you will join us in voicing our concerns that we have with their organization. Therefore, Anonymous will list some websites where you can research the previously listed facts. Please give yourself the benefit of having educated yourself as to this information prior to your meeting scheduled for Tuesday, February 26th, 2008. Anonymous encourages members of the WSANA to attend the meeting and to raise and discuss your concerns with the Church of Scientology and its' historically documented behavior.
Here are some websites for your reference:
www.xenu.net
www.lisamcpherson.org
www.whyaretheydead.net
www.xenutv.com
Members of WSANA, please know that Anonymous will be there to assist you in becoming more educated on this subject so that you can voice your concerns appropriately and intelligently on the 26th of February. All we hope for in return for our helping you is your help in spreading the word about the involvement of such illegal activities by the Church of Scientology.
You do not need to be one of us to be with us on this. The Church of Scientology has tried to label Anonymous as a cyber terrorist organization. They have tried to label Anonymous as religious bigots. The public is not listening. Anonymous is doing what hundreds, maybe thousands, have tried to do in the past on their own. Anonymous has assisted in educating people on the illegal activities of the Church of Scientology.
We are everywhere and we are everyone, yet we are no one. We are an invisible opponent the likes of which the leaders of the Church of Scientology have never seen before and can not fight using their conventional methods and tactics. We will tell you the truth about them and they will tell lies about us. They have done this to hundreds who have spoken out against their organization in the past and they will try to do it to us. Such attempts will fail. There are too many of us and word is spreading rapidly.
We are legion.
We do not forgive.
We do not forget.
We are here.
Join us.
Message to WSANA from Anonymous
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGbbQGV7J1Q
Hello members of Worcester Square Area Neighborhood Association. This is a message to you from Anonymous.
It has come to the attention of Anonymous that you have concerns about the quote unquote Church of Scientology moving into your Worcester Square neighborhood in Boston. While your concerns of having protests carried out in your historic neighborhood are both valid and understandable, your concern mustn't stop there.
As our organized peaceful protests around the world on February 10th, 2008 have shown, the reach and determination of Anonymous is vast, wide, and ever growing. Once you have been educated on the history and past and present practices of the Church of Scientology, your concerns will also grow beyond the numerous protests which will take place, not only by anonymous, but also by the many groups and individuals whom have been long term critics of the illegal and inhumane practices of the Church of Scientology.
Everyone has the right to their beliefs and religion. Anonymous does not oppose these rights. Anonymous does not oppose Scientology as a religion. Anonymous opposes the Church of Scientology organizations history of murder, deception, attacks on free speech, tax exempt status and its' litigiousness. Those who leave the Church of Scientology will be "disconnected" from their friends and families who remain with the church. Speak out against the church and they will harass you by labeling you as an "SP", or suppressive person, and by marking you as fair game. The Church of Scientology organizations Fair Game order, in the words of Scientologys founder L. Ron Hubbard states and I quote, "Any SP May be deprived of property or injured by any means, by any Scientologist without any discipline of the Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed." According to the church of scientology the fair game order was abandoned in 1968 yet these activities are still taking place today, forty years later. These issues and many many more, are the practices of the Church of Scientology which Anonymous does oppose. It is the belief of Anonymous that once you educate yourself to these facts, the hundreds of planned protests will be the least of your concerns.
The protest on February 10th was only the beginning. Several more are already in the planning stages. Anonymous hopes that once you are educated of the practices of the Church of Scientology you will join us in voicing our concerns that we have with their organization. Therefore, Anonymous will list some websites where you can research the previously listed facts. Please give yourself the benefit of having educated yourself as to this information prior to your meeting scheduled for Tuesday, February 26th, 2008. Anonymous encourages members of the WSANA to attend the meeting and to raise and discuss your concerns with the Church of Scientology and its' historically documented behavior.
Here are some websites for your reference:
www.xenu.net
www.lisamcpherson.org
www.whyaretheydead.net
www.xenutv.com
Members of WSANA, please know that Anonymous will be there to assist you in becoming more educated on this subject so that you can voice your concerns appropriately and intelligently on the 26th of February. All we hope for in return for our helping you is your help in spreading the word about the involvement of such illegal activities by the Church of Scientology.
You do not need to be one of us to be with us on this. The Church of Scientology has tried to label Anonymous as a cyber terrorist organization. They have tried to label Anonymous as religious bigots. The public is not listening. Anonymous is doing what hundreds, maybe thousands, have tried to do in the past on their own. Anonymous has assisted in educating people on the illegal activities of the Church of Scientology.
We are everywhere and we are everyone, yet we are no one. We are an invisible opponent the likes of which the leaders of the Church of Scientology have never seen before and can not fight using their conventional methods and tactics. We will tell you the truth about them and they will tell lies about us. They have done this to hundreds who have spoken out against their organization in the past and they will try to do it to us. Such attempts will fail. There are too many of us and word is spreading rapidly.
We are legion.
We do not forgive.
We do not forget.
We are here.
Join us.
Several neighborhood organizations are involved, not just WSANA
It's not just WSANA that must weigh in on the Church of Scientology's plans for the Alexandra Hotel.
It's also CSANA aka the Chester Square Neighborhood Association (the official neighborhood where the Alexandra Hotel resides)
http://www.chestersquareassociation.org/
and Lower Roxbury
http://www.lowerroxburycoalition.org/about.htm
and the City Councilor is Chuck Turner
From reading the South End news article below...the response is mostly positive. There is some mention of the protesting and the controversy, but not much.
mysouthend.com/...id=56234
and Washington Gateway Main Street
http://www.gatewaymainstreet.org/
Protesting
People have a right to protest something they believe in strongly. This isn't an issue of religious discrimination or a bored bunch of people looking to cause havoc. The intent is not to disrupt life in the area but bring attention to some very serious charges that have and continue to be brought against the church.