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Taking the trolley from Forest Hills to Mattapan
By adamg on Tue, 12/16/2014 - 3:54pm
Transit historian and Harvard University librarian Foster Palmer narrates the trip, with a brief stopover at Barry's Ledge, once a gravel pit, then a never-was driving range.
H/t Tim Murphy.
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Comments
So awesome
I love how this city used to have all of these trolleys. I wish the current city/state/MBTA administrations would push to rebuild more of this lost infrastructure. I know this is a common thread here, but looking at how well this area used to do it makes me smile.
I'll admit, as someone who lives close to downtown (Orange line baby) and has a car (very fortunate), as I've looked at other areas of the metro to live in, I won't live anywhere without close access to Green, Red, Orange or Blue lines. If you want to minimize use of car, Commuter Rail, even close in, won't cut it (Unless Baker follows through with the DMUs the current MBTA is planning on). GLX will be great, but not sure I'd move before its built.
And while I know its grossly elitist to diss on the bus... yeah... no me guesta the bus. Between traffic, weather, breakdowns and everything else, I'll pass.
Many of these lines were
Many of these lines were discontinued at a time when ridership was down due to increased car ownership and population decreases (white flight) in some areas. Unfortunately, the T didn't have the foresight to see that increased car ownership would make bus replacement a poor idea due to traffic.
No - streetcars were replaced
No - streetcars were replaced with buses because buses were better. Flexible, less infrastructure. The automobile had nothing to do with it.
You and your 17 'Thumbs ups'
You and your 17 'Thumbs ups' obviously never actually rode on the old street-going trollies. You think the Green Line from Huntington ave to Forest Hills didn't suffer from 'traffic, weather, breakdowns and everything else?' The cars were dirty, creaky, and either too hot or too cold. Does your car have a crank starter? Old technology was replace with new. New was better. I'd love to sentence all 18 of you to have to sit in a trolley during rush hour with some fool double parked in front of you.
As one of the 19 "Thumb's up" people
and as one who often rode the 39 bus while a student at Northeastern in the early 1980s (streetcar service only went to Brigham Circle in those days - and it was actually on worse frequency than the current E trains), I'd welcome the conversion from buses back to streetcars on the Arborway line. If nothing else, it would give people a one-seat (or stand) ride into Park Street and Downtown Boston.
Abou 80% in...
Digging the billboard with Shawmut Bank Indian logo... How Boston is that? Way cool. Thanks!
So around 0:45 the trolley is
So around 0:45 the trolley is turning onto Hyde Park Avenue from...where? I can't think of where there is such a steep hill on HPA around Forest Hills. Does that footage show a spot that got demolished and reconfigured when takings for the Inner Belt were made?
Hyde Park Ave. @ Cummins
Hyde Park Ave. @ Cummins Highway.
Also, the narrator is the late Foster Palmer, the gentleman who filmed these back in the last 40s/mid-50s.
This was from a commercial tape that came out when Foster was still around.
Thanks
Original post updated.
At the 45 the trolley is
At the 45 the trolley is taking a left off HPA onto Cummins Hwy at today's Louie White's Atlas liquor store. In the past , the trolley would have gone through Forest Hills station , out to Wahington street , then at the split at Hatoff's Texaco it would go left and s right to HPA. If it went right at the split , under a low NHRR bridge , it would be staying on Washington street.Today's Washington street has been reconfigured. That might be the little incline , at the split , that you mean ? There was also a bicycle shop smash dead center in the whole thing , I can still remember it's pinkish red fluorescent light.
I'm pretty sure thats turning
I'm pretty sure thats turning off HPA onto Cummins, I live right there and that grade looks just like Cummins @ HPA
Thank you!
I loved this video...I wish I could take trolleys around more parts of Boston right now.
Love it!
Adam, where did you find this? It's terrific! (As an aside I never knew there had been a Dorchester Savings Bank.)
Dorchester Savings Bank
It was Dorchester Savings Bank from a long time ago when it changed its name to First American Bank in the mid 70's in order to shake any localization perceptions. Hyde Park Savings Bank changed just recently to Blue Hills Bank, as did Charlestown SB in the mid 70's after they moved to 55 Summer and became NewWorld Bank.
First American had offices in Uphams Corner and branches in Roslindale along American Legion Highway and on Morrissey in what is now the Citizens Bank.
They got caught up on the 80's real estate frenzy and lost their shirt with the renovation of that big apartment building at the corner of Marlborough and Mass Ave. I don't know who bought them then. It could have been Bank of NE or Provident.
Dorchester Savings Bank
And there was a branch in Mattapan Square.
And there was a branch in
And there was a branch in Mattapan Square.
All those trees!
Although the trolly is very cool what stands out to me is the number of trees on Hyde park ave and on cummins. I wonder whether they were all elms and got wiped out by dutch elm disease or whether they were cut down. There are basically none left.
Barry's Ledge was an anti
Barry's Ledge was an anti-aircraft installation during WWII and the Korean War. It had 90 'm anti-aircraft guns. Per a response to your Nov. 2012 on Barry's Ledge a commentator referenced Wampatuck. It was a U.S. Navy amo dump and later Nike Missale cite.
very cool
Thanks, Adam!
rumors
I've read from places tire manufacturers helped push bus service around the US in an effort to close trolley lines with bus service. I know the jury is out on that, but the fact remains many of these long lost lines (hello A line) are now bus lines (57 bus).
The conglomorate
was called National City Lines and consisted of General Motors, Firestone Tire, and Standard Oil.
Beginning in the late 1940s, National CIty Lines started a publicity campaign to convince transit systems to convert from streetcar systems to busses. The first major conversion they initiated was in the Los Angeles area, with the eventual abandonment of the Pacific Electric streetcar system and the accelleration of freeway construction (this history was the basis for the "demolish Toon Town" plot in the movie Who Framed Roger Rabbit).
Despite rumors to the contrary, Boston was not influenced by National CIty Lines in their decision to convert streetcar lines to buses, and kept most of their streetcar lines much later than other cities like Philadelphia, who was an early National CIty Lines convert - and was prominetly featured in a National CIty Lines publicity film.
Some years ago, PBS aired a very good documentary about National City Lines entitled "Taken For A Ride." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JQWRAoL0vk