T delays are just stunning: Now the Red Line's stopped running
Just as the T was telling riders from the South Shore to try their luck with the Red Line because commuter rail was dead, a Red Line train realized it was more than six feet under near South Station and started pushing up daisies.
That effectively shut the Red Line in both directions at rush hour, as T workers tried to get a live train to push the dead one out of the way (across the Longfellow, as spotted by Saul Blumenthal, who correctly figured he'd make better time walking to his job in Cambridge from South Station).
The Red Line wheezed back into service around 8:35, but the "severe" delays continued - with an added bonus: Shortly before 9 a.m., Matt Rogers reports, an Alewife-bound train finally pulled into Downtown Crossing , only nobody could get off the train because the platform was so crowded with people trying to get on:
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Comments
And Charlie and his 'control board' wanna raise fares
This just bears repeating.... they want us to pay more for such crappy service.
Sorry to keep repeating this, but I think i can safely speak for all riders and say that any sort of fare increase right now is very, very bad timing.
Keep that in mind when you're stuck today.
Does the Governor even know when this stuff happens?
Does anyone he talks to on a daily basis ever take the T?
Do you
Do you think he really cares?
He'll kind of have to
When everyone just decides to Detroit this city because they can't count on its basic functions to work. (Assuming he's still here by then and isn't destroying the Commerce Department under President Trump)
As long
As long as the likes of GE gets tax breaks and he can privatize the T, he doesn't care about the riders getting to work daily. As long as his cronies get paid, he doesn't care..
Not sure about that
"As long as the likes of GE gets tax breaks and he can privatize the T, he doesn't care about the riders getting to work daily. As long as his cronies get paid, he doesn't care.."
The voters vote him in, not GE and he knows it.
There's a guy that wants to run commuter cars between Providence and Worcester on the P&W line. He just might do it. Is it possible to run commuter rail profitably? I dunno. All I know is that the MBTA wasn't created in a day...
So we have the P&W, a private, profitable railroad and the guy (I forget) who thinks he can make money on passenger service.
So I guess it can be done. Oh, BTW, the P&W is America's oldest continuously running railroad. The NH leased it, they never gave up the charter.
Um
Ever hear of Citizens United?
Um yeah.. Corporations have BIG POWER in who gets elected. More so than the general public.
Baker is a Koch Puppet. They made sure he won. Didn't help Marsha was weak candidate either.
I apologize in advance
...Cock Puppet
Yes I have
"Ever hear of Citizens United? "
Ya.
Koch, Koch...just keep repeating. Or you could actually do some research on Citizens United...
Each citizen has a vote. No corporation or union ever voted in an election. Can they tell us how to vote? Sure. Can they vote? No.
Grow up.
FWIW...
...the Providence-Worcester service is unlikely to ever fly. It's a 40 mph railroad at best now (which is just fine for the P&W to profitably move freight), but unlikely to compete against the parallel expressway. It's hard to imagine them finding the funding to pay for the above the rail costs alone (equipment, crews, fuel, insurance) and stations, let alone rebuilding the line for higher speeds. It's a fantasy.
The Providence-Worcester guy
The Providence-Worcester guy is most likely betting that RI and/or MA eventually want to run commuter rail over the P&W, at which point, if he has the passenger rights for the line, the states would have to buy him out.
Never mind that Providence-Worcester via the P&W, even with upgrades is only going to be a few minutes faster than Providence-Worcester via Boston.
Depends
"if he has the passenger rights for the line, the states would have to buy him out."
Or not. If he's running something that works...
Oh. I see...the government can do it better...
Oh, it would be a LOT faster than via Boston. Especially today, or any given day considering there's no Amtrak involved...
Huh?
"unlikely to compete against the parallel expressway."
There is no parallel expressway. It's Rt. 146.
They've already made a deal with the P&W, the only stations are Prov, Worc and a middle stop in Woonsocket, all already in existence, so it might not be a fantasy.
A Worc Tel story, if he can cut the time, he has a shot:
http://www.telegram.com/article/20141207/NEWS/312079972/1237
Not a fantasy.
You honestly think "everyone"
You honestly think "everyone" is just going to up and leave because the public transit system doesn't work?
Yes
When the city's infrastructure is falling apart, the T doesn't work on a regular basis, roads left unrepaired and the school budgets repeatedly cut, working families will and do look elsewhere to live.
The city is growing by leaps
The city is growing by leaps and bounds; look around at all the condo and luxury apartment development. I doubt this class of people even use the T extensively, let alone will all up and leave if the T falls apart.
Of course they will
In order to afford the rents and sale prices of all of this new construction, car ownership will continue to drop in the city. I gave up mine years ago. The T will not be able to handle all of the increased ridership, since it can't handle what it already has.
Taking the T and not owning a
Taking the T and not owning a car is how I pay for my fancy house and boutique restaurants.
"everyone" may be hyperbolic...
...but the effect would be catastrophic if, all of a sudden, the T really and truly went belly-up. Sure, the well-to-do can afford to drive around (and enjoy those traffic nightmares if and when that happens), but what about the workers who support this city? How are they supposed to get here if the means by which they commute to work suddenly vanishes? Not everyone can afford a car; not everyone can afford taxis or ubers or whatever, but many people can afford a monthly T pass. Remove that as an option, and who's going to be able to get to Boston to do the shitty hourly jobs that most of us aren't willing to perform?
I don't doubt that it would
I don't doubt that it would be catastrophic, but comparing it to Detroit is wrong, almost entirely backwards in some ways. That is, when Detroit collapsed, anyone with means escaped the city, leaving behind the poorest people who couldn't afford to escape. If the T collapses, it would be the poorest - the truly transit dependent - who would have to leave, if anyone left at all. Boston is growing by leaps and bounds (massive development of condors and luxury apartments), but it's the class of people who are least dependent on the T who are moving in, so if the T collapses, those people might be annoyed but they aren't going anywhere. I don't know what the economic results of such a situation would be (where the poor leave and the rich stay), but it wouldn't look anything like Detroit's collapse.
I'm not comparing it to Detroit
My point is, as you say, that the collapse of the T would affect the poorest - and those are the people we all rely on. If only rich and useless people are left here, who's going to work in the restaurants? Who's going to clean buildings?
If the T fails...
...where do we put everyone? Major highways already jammed all rush hour, and there's not remotely close to enough parking in the city.
If Detroit is any indication
Yes, everyone could up and leave eventually. Detroit is *still* trying to have a resurgence.
Ive lived in detroit
We have a long way to go. Also, i encourage you to look up exactly why places like Detroit and LA have minimal public transit. It has a lot less to do with failing infrastructure than you think. (hint: practically none)
Los Angeles
You should read up on that... LA's Metro System is rapidly expanding. Gone are the days of "LA doesn't have public transit".. that's a 1980s reply.
LA has quite the transit system now. Sure it doesn't cover the entire Los Angeles Metro area, but it's getting there.
Click here for a link of current and proposed extensions
thats good to know
its also irrelevant to the point i was making
No it's not
And I quote
I just told you, you were wrong.
Several lines and more being built is not "minimal". If it was 1990, you would have a point there as the Red Line only existed in 1990... 25 years later.. not so much.
Edit: And you know why LA or Detroit.. specifically, Los Angeles has lacked in transit compared to other cities. I'll give you a hint.. I bet you drove one to work today.
More specifically, LA and Detroit
- like other cities - were gullible enough to fall for the National City Lines pitch that getting rid of streetcar transit would be better for them.
thats what
That's what I was hinting at..
Car Companies bought up the street car lines and put them out of business so people would buy cars instead.
You might want to try not
You might want to try not treating Who Framed Roger Rabbit as an historical documentary. "GM bought up the streetcar lines and put them out of business so people would buy cars instead" is a myth. The demise of streetcars is much more a product of state intervention (partially a consequence of broad consensus among the progressives of the first half of the 20th century that public transit was contrary to social progress).
Van Wilkins has a good summary:
The primary reason streetcar operators had no money to fix tracks or buy new cars was a combination of local governments' rules preventing fare increases (through conditions on the franchise agreements), increasing labor costs (not helped by requirements that streetcars be operated by two crewmembers), and requirements that the streetcar operators maintain the streets on which they ran.
Prior to the PUHCA, electric companies often ran the street railways, which thus got cheap electricity (often the electric company would run streetcars in order to get permission to run wires). When the power companies had to divest the street railways, that raised the electricity costs of the streetcars for the new owners.
The National City Lines conspiracy boils down to GM seeing that (largely due to the New Deal), street railways were planning to replace streetcars with buses, and they started buying up the street railways to ensure that the buses the railways bought were GM buses. They were convicted of trying to monopolize the market for buses.
who said?
Who said I was talking about Who Framed Roger Rabbit?
Truthfully, I never knew there was a connection between the two until right now. Then again I was 11 when I saw that movie in 1988.
But thanks for the detailed reply.
Actually...
...getting rid of streetcars did make sense in a lot of places. The Comm Ave line has its own dedicated roadbed, but there was a track in Brighton to Oak Square and beyond. High tech at the time. Can you imagine Washington St or Cambridge St. with streetcars today?
At one time you could take a streetcar from Woonsocket RI to Silver Lake in Bellingham. Then the horseless carriage came along. More efficient. Adios, streetcar.
can you
Can you imagine if the streetcar system still existed today.. people wouldn't be so dependent on cars. The environment would be better and cleaner. And we wouldn't have such a dependency on foreign oil.
Efficiency? Are you for real? So a streetcar holds 60 people. If we had no streetcars, that means 60 individual vehicles would be on the road. ONE streetcar would take the place of 60 cars.
How is car ownership more efficient? It's not. If everyone is going to the same place, why have 60 cars all going to the same place when they all can ride in one vehicle.
The problem is that, once car
The problem is that, once car ownership gets above a certain fairly low level, cars and their idiot drivers are far more disruptive to streetcars than buses in mixed traffic. Until such time as the political will exists to undo the New Deal era's infatuation with widespread car ownership (strangely enough, 99.9% of the people who want to undo the New Deal generally have no interest at all in undoing that aspect), streetcars on streets not wide enough to segregate the tracks from cars is wasting transit money that could better be spent on improved bus service (which is far more likely to bring about the reductions in car usage which will facilitate future transit improvements) or improved right-of-way segregation.
failing infrastructure
"failing infrastructure"
His point wasn't about how much
ill give you another hint
i was in detroit for one of those reasons, and it begins with a big fat F
i was getting @ the WHY detroit is why it is. that LA is improving its public transit has zero to do with why it was lacking to begin with. which is was my point.
so while i was wrong about LA's current state, that is, actually, irrelevant to what I was getting at.
And
You're wrong again
LA had an very large streetcar system prior to the 1960s.
I don't know what points your trying to make but you clearly have no idea what you're talking about, at least when it comes to LA's transit system and history.
nah
you're wrong
I'm not
Let me google that for you
You have nothing more to add than a quip because I just handed your ass to you.
But thanks for playing..
lol
i bet that got your adrenaline going
but
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy
is mainly what i was referring to WRT to LA, which i find it interesting you didn't even acknowledge. probably because lending credence to anything I said wouldnt give you your sick internet victory that you were so desperately seeking
once again you're wrong
I did reference that.. and I quote from above
aka a CAR.
Roadman also alluded to it also.
scale 1-10
how much are you enjoying yourself right now
I think
I think you have a hardon right now
LA transit expansion video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeMrmsrpkOw
Also when they do
Also when they do infrastructure repairs they shut something down totally for 48 hours and get it done (a few hours under schedule even). None of this close-one-lane-of-Western-Ave-for-3-years-don't-kill-the-job BS.
Don't worry...
...self-driving Ubers will solve all our problems any day now.
I'll settle for a implanted vacation to Mars...
...heck, even the chance of a lobotomy beats dealing with rush hour on the T some days...
Did you go to the hearings?
Did you go to the hearings? Did anyone else who complains constantly on this site?
I did
I did. Did you?
I even wrote my comments in also.
No, but I don't post daily
No, but I don't post daily complaints about the T on UHub or elsewhere.
Good for you for going. I've been involved in numerous other political causes, where I did go to hearings, legislative hearings, was involved with groups actually trying to do something, and that's the point I wanted to get across: Anyone complaining about the sad state of the T I hope is doing a lot more than just Internet complaining, because that accomplishes absolutely nothing.
Yup
I say the same thing...
Did you write in your comments?
Did you call your representatives?
Did you go to meetings?
Did you vote in the last primary or election?
If you've answered "no" to any of these questions, you lose the right to bitch about how things are.
That is why I go to meetings and do public comment. So I've earned my right to bitch daily about it.
Here. Here.
I called the Govs. office this morning to record my concerns and asked the aid if she had gotten many calls regarding the T this morning. She said my call was the first. Sad.
Why?
Before the hearings are even over they cancel the late night service anyway. The hearings are a meaningless waste of time.
The only thing that works is corporate (aka GE) interests and (sometimes) complaining to state reps.
Unfortunately, the state reps
apparently have more important issues to deal with than the MBTA.
https://malegislature.gov/Bills/189/House/H3031
maybe we could ask the state senators!
i mean, surely they're willing to listen!
just don't approach them if your organization is identified by 3 letter acronyms
wow
That is some hard-hitting governmenting right there. Tremendous work, MA Legislature. Well done. High fives all around.
It's just a bill, every
It's just a bill, every legislator is entitled to file whatever bills he wants, and the legislature has to give every bill filed a fair hearing, vote, and so on. That two legislators have filed utter trivia (and I'm sure there are dozens of other bills like this, or even stupider) doesn't mean that's what the legislature is concentrating on.
and the legislature has to
Which prevents the Legislature from focusing their time and effort on actual and substantive issues. Especially with bills like this that attempt to interfere with issues that really should be the domain of Executive Branch agencies (hint - sign approval is a MassDOT matter, not that of the Great and General Court).
Thats more like it
Any chance you get, take a shot a Baker... who has been Governor for just over ONE year now. I think we can all agree its going to take many years to fix the MBTA, not one. I think we can also agree, in order to fix problems you must identify them first. The bottom line is, the union-run mess that is the MBTA has been mismanaged for decades, this didn't happen over night.
Nevertheless, I agree that a fare increase is bad timing, nor will solve any problems. Same can be said when fares were raised a few years ago when Deval was Governor...
Correct
You're correct in timing and that the T has been messed for many years. As I keep saying, fixing the T is going to take a conversation between Baker, His Control Board, and The Legislature to actually fix the problem.. not just cuts and raising fares.
My other issue with Baker is he's going on "Mister FixIt" stance he has, yet very little has done. This isn't rocket science to fix, yet the key thing (as stated above) needs to happen, and it has not. All Baker is doing is just kicking the can down further like everyone else in the past has done,.. just enough to keep the system going until he's voted out of office and it becomes someone else's problem (like Patrick did. Like Romney Did. Like Cellucci Did, and on and on)
I think we need to wait until
I think we need to wait until the next FMCB report comes out to see if Baker's solutions are going to be real, political distraction, or otherwise. So far all they've done is produce a report detailing all the problems and likely causes, not how to fix them.
You do realize
You do realize FMCB WORKS for baker? Do you think these reports will make baker look bad?
If you believe these reports are truthful, I have some beautiful ocean front property in Pittsfield to sell you.
Transit nuts and people in the know about the T have problem these reports are skewed to make Baker look good.
I heard Gov. Baker on WGBH radio today..
he says that the proposed fare increases are a good thing and will lead to better service.
That's pathetic
Trains fail daily and he's still insistent that fare increases are the be all end all?
Sorry I don't buy that one bit. Fare increases will go to operating budget, not maintenance. Differed maintenance is the reason why crap breaks almost daily now. No fare increase will fix that.
He really doesn't have a clue how to fix the T, if he thinks fare increases will fix things. We've been told this before in the past, and the service just gets worse.
Has there been a day when the
Has there been a day when the T hasn't been in the news for something breaking down?
well
there were the times last winter when they just didn't have any service at all, so maybe something didn't break on those days
It happens all the time,
It happens all the time, there's just more to talk about when it has problems
Marty Walsh
"The T isn't that bad"
Spoken as another politician ..
..who apparently never used and never uses the T. For a long time, Marty used to live literally a one minute walk from Savin Hill Station. As a frequent user of that station I never saw him and neither has anyone else I know.
As for Chucking Farley, he doesnt use the T, never did, and wants only one thing, to privitize it.
In Charlie's defense
He lives about a 10 minute walk from Swampscott.
Important people don't walk or take the train.
And T got *LUCKY*
The simultaneous failure of the red line and South Station CR could have been truly apocalyptic. The T got lucky that this happened during school vacation week.
January 8, 2019
Start your countdown clocks.
Really?
I assume until the next Governor gets elected? Hopefully it will be another Democrat who can help out all his union buddies and their overpaid, incompetent employees who continue to fleece tax payers all the while containing their absentee/over-time scheme...
This is why a bipartisan system is fail
You automatically set yourself opposed to the idea before even knowing what he meant. I personally don't care how a person identifies as long as theyre doing a decent job.
I dont know you, or your politics, so this is a general statement. This partisan nature of covering your ears and going "la la la" whenever "the other side" is speaking will be our undoing. The rest of us are just caught in the middle.
the dead train
I got to South Station around 8:10 after an uneventful express bus ride in and saw a train was two mins away. Perfect! The sign changed to "arriving" and stayed that way for several minutes. I looked in the tunnel and saw the train maybe a train's length away from the platform. Once I saw workers on the platform descend into the tracks I knew it was bad. So I took advantage of the nice day and walked to work in Kendall Square.
As I was walking on the Longfellow, I saw the dead train and the train that was pushing it presumably to the yard at Alewife.
So no northbound train made it past South Station for well over 30 minutes.
T conspirancy
At the rate the T's going,We'll be willing to fund any overpriced, undocumented scheme just to get service up to an acceptable level. Truly a "Quasi" Public agency, Private agency when it suits their purposes and Public agency if the situation calls for a change.
Take it over, Or privatize it?
Agreed
Let the service degrade so much that riders will be ready for anything they want to do, even if it costs 5 bucks a ride and is run by a private company.
Commuter Rail and the Ride
are operated by private vendors for the MBTA. And we've seen how well those services are working out.
Public transportation should be that - PUBLIC. Not for the benefit of private concerns looking to maximize profits.
the Ride
This being run by a private firm is ironic because the RIDE is one of the things getting some big cuts.
So it goes to show you, privatization doesn't always work. Yet Baker can't even see it with his own eyes that it doesn't work considering he's cutting the RIDE, a privatized division of the T.
The Red Line, Blue Line,
The Red Line, Blue Line, Orange Line, Green Line, Silver Line, and buses are operated by the MBTA directly. And we've seen how well those services are working out.
I love how big-government types will point to a failure in private business as why the whole system doesn't work and needs to be run by government, when literally the exact same failure is present in the parallel government system and is blithely ignored. Literally, government can do no wrong, eh?
Way to miss the point
Privatization is touted as the solution to problems facing government agencies. I simply pointed out two local examples where privatization of public transportation services hasn't improved things.
And if you think the reliablity of the subway lines is akin to The Ride, then perhaps you should speak to some of the patients at the diaylsis clinic I attend and listen to them talk about their experiences with The Ride. Makes the Green Line look like the TGV in terms of performance and reliability.
To anybody that has played fallout 4,
I ask you, does the T run better or worse post apocalypse
Co Worker
Coworker says The T does not function after the apocalypse. There's no infrastructure at all in the game. So essentially its the same...
hm, a different meaning to
war never changes
Fallout
As far as I can tell, Gov'nah Baker woke up from cryosleep and ordered all the tunnels to be filled.
It's actually my biggest disappointment with the game. I was looking forward to spelunking in the caverns below Boston. Instead they're all self contained, small dungeons.
I'll say this
Andrew station looks only marginally worse in Fallout 4 than it does now, and that's after nuclear oblivion.
Well...
Travel between stations is largely impossible because of collapsed tunnels. Park Street station has been taken over by a criminal syndicate who thinks they're 30's gangsters, Harvard Square station is infested with zombies, and every station in Revere is used as a base of operations by a lawless band of brigands who are also running a robot racetrack at Suffolk Downs.
So I'd say it's a push.
On the other hand
...in this alternate reality, the Big Dig never happened, so 93 still runs through downtown on massive elevated pylons. Those pylons buckled, in a few cases, so even if you can make it onto the freeway, you can only go about a mile at a time before you risk plummeting over the edge into the abyss (or the North End, in some cases).
So I'd say they managed to capture Boston transportation pretty accurately across the board.
I almost forgot
They sold Park Street Station to Vault Tech to raise one time revenues. That seems like the shortsighted giveaways we see in politics now a days.
Surrender (T) erms
T-employees are ripping off their vests and hiding out in rooms .The Transit police are refusing to go on the platforms for fear of being beaten by angry commuters. The T has announced the hiring of Baghdad Bob as their new spokesman
I got to Quincy Center and
I got to Quincy Center and the platform was packed. A train was going south, which I got on, in hopes of getting on a train in Quincy Adams. After 40 minutes waiting for a train that had room at Quincy Adams (!!!!), I got on and we crawled to JFK. Two hours later, I was at work.
I don't often take the train into town in the morning
But when I do, I always head down to Ashmont instead of Quincy Center (it helps that I live on the bus line between the two). The Braintree line always seems at least twice as crowded.
And that's on days without
And that's on days without breakdowns.
What did you expect?
If someone was driving an old clunker on the expressway that they kept putting off getting a new car or even just repairs because they didn't want to spend the money, and it broke down, the answer would overwhelmingly be "well, what did you expect?".
I got a red line train at
I got a red line train at Quincy Center, heading towards Park, around 10 am. They were still broadcasting the severe delay message, but the trip wasn't so bad.
We stopped twice for "schedule adjustments," But both times the conductor told us exactly how long we were going to wait (3 minutes each), and I could even understand him! Otherwise we went right through.
We passed 4 parked and empty (I think?) commuter rail trains on the track just before hitting the Neponset.
It was ewven better on the way back to Quincy!
The green line, on the other hand, was a pain. Waited over 20 minutes to get a train to Park at Fenway. It was pretty windy over there, too. No fun. Would have walked to Kenmore to up my chances, but I was carrying a heavy load.