Architect's rendering.
The owners of the Arsenal Mall, um, Project, today announced plans for a major revamp that will turn the old Army complex turned shopping mall into one of those new mixed-use residential/commercial/office complexes that are all the rage these days.
For those unfamiliar with the location of the new Arsenal Yards, its Web site pinpoints it as being "where Cambridge meets Boston."
OK, a press release from the developers does mention Watertown as the home for the planned 500 residences, 350,000 square feet of retail space and 100,000 square feet of office space.
This new community in Watertown’s East End will bring vibrancy of the city and an urban energy along with the convenience and warmth of a suburb. ...
Arsenal Yards is an all-in-one neighborhood destination for active people looking for the perfect place to meet up with friends and neighbors, take in a movie, grab groceries, share a drink, meet for breakfast or lunch, or settle in for dinner.
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Comments
Where Cambridge Meets Boston
By Imma Dork
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 11:24am
uh yeah...brilliant!
I haven't clicked the link
By ZachAndTired
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 11:28am
I haven't clicked the link yet, but I'm assuming this development will be houseboats on the Charles. Very innovative!
To be fair,
By Sock_Puppet
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 11:50am
"Ass-End of Watertown" didn't wow the focus group.
Tsarnaev Hunt Staging Area However....
By John Costello
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 11:59am
Did very well in the overall Q scoring.
HA!
By M
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 6:13pm
This made me laugh so hard I startled the cat. Thank you.
Original Garden Scoreboard
By ElizaLeila
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 11:42am
I wonder if that will still have a home after the transformation?
Im taking bets
By JimGaffigan
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 11:45am
That "Tuin Taverne" on the home screen of the fancy online brochure becomes a very generic Tavern In The Square when its complete.
Hopefully
By ChrisInEastie
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 11:51am
Miller's would scare them away.
If Cambridge meets Boston
By SamW
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 11:45am
in Watertown, it is probably for some questionable assignation.
Well.....
By Marco
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 1:24pm
Watertown is the spot where the Charles River is at its most narrow point. Back before all the bridges were built, one literally had to travel out there to get to Cambridge by land. So in that case it kind of IS where Cambridge meets Boston
The Name Game
By Aeroguy
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 11:48am
Is anybody fooled?
Probably a handful of people
By Kinopio
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 12:25pm
Probably a handful of people who book flights to that airport thinking its in or near Boston without looking at a map first.
to most people in the country
By Scumquistador
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 4:46pm
50 miles from an airport to a destination isn't really that bad.
its three times that distance from the airport to get to my lake house, unless i fly into the piddly regional deal afterwards. which i've never done and will likely never do.
Since you mention Manchester
By adamg
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 12:26pm
Let's not forget Manchester-by-the-sea-even-if-Affleck-took-out-the-hyphens.
Manchesterbythesea? Well that
By Steeve
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 1:45pm
Manchesterbythesea? Well that's just confusing as all getup.
Heh, no, he secretly replaced the hyphens with spaces
By adamg
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 1:50pm
Unlike how the good burghers want to be known, since it was simply so dreadful always getting confused with that declasse place up in New Hampshre.
We're getting way off-topic here
By Scratchie
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 2:11pm
But does anyone else wish that the New Hampshire city would rename itself "Manchester-on-the-Merrimack"?
Maybe
By John Costello
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 2:35pm
because largest collection of Urban White Poor In New England doesn't have a Chamber of Commerce feel to it.
Does it hurt your neck?
By Scratchie
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 2:49pm
Looking down your nose like that?
Yeah, well
By SwirlyGrrl
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 2:55pm
Their contribution to the GDP of their state is way higher than that of their coastal cousin.
Manchester-upon-Merrimack
By blues_lead
Fri, 12/02/2016 - 2:28pm
Ftfy
ManchVegas?
By ElizaLeila
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 3:28pm
I thought that's what they referred to themselves as?
Maybe Everett becomes eVegas? eVergasett?
Newcomers, probably
By anon
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 5:12pm
The same ones who fall for "Allston Village, walk to D line" real estate ads.
The Holiday Inn in Somerville
By Ron Newman
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 10:50pm
is now the Holiday Inn at "Boston - Bunker Hill".
Déjà vu
By FredQuimby
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 11:50am
Have you ever felt like you have been in some place before? I looked at tht image and realized I have.
Its D. Street in South Boston.
http://tiny.cc/6c9dhy
Fixed
By ChrisInEastie
Sun, 12/04/2016 - 1:51pm
Hell, drive down Western towards Allston and you'll see pretty much exact same rendering in person just before Everett St.
It's been said by many before, and I'll say it again: This current architectural design trend sucks.
These places are going to look shit in 25 years
By FredQuimby
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 12:00pm
When the newness has long passed, the condo fees have sky rocketed and condo owners are looking for ways to keep the condo fees from rising more.
What do you base this on?
By SwirlyGrrl
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 12:10pm
This sort of construction isn't new, and is designed for low maintenance.
It may be new to you and recent here, but it has been in full bloom in places like Vancouver, BC and Toronto for a couple of decades now.
Stick-built things using less resilient materials rot far sooner. Of course, proper construction is key, including vapor barriers being properly installed without damage. That's true for any building, however.
Ive been around this industry a long time
By UHubMixologist
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 12:51pm
The majority of these buildings are slapped up as fast as they can be. For the cheapest price. Some of them are stick built with precast facades. Just to give an example, Gatehouse 75 in Charlestown. A 75 unit, 5 storey complex and it is completely made of wood. They put up a pretty brownstone front and called it luxury. I know at least one of the buildings on D street is stick built. I watched it go up.
I would be more worried about a fire in one of these units.
Hate to be that guy
By bgl
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 1:02pm
But that is brick, not brownstone.
Please
By UHubMixologist
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 1:25pm
By all means, give us a complete explanation of each and why this brick is different than brownstone.
OK
By bgl
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 1:54pm
Brownstone (which there is very little available of anymore):
http://image.shutterstock.com/z/stock-photo-browns...
http://s3files.core77.com/blog/images/2012/10/brow...
Brick/This place:
http://i.imgur.com/ub8evUB.jpg
Bonus Points, Grey Stone:
http://cribchatter.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/...
I mean, really, not trying to be a dick, but brick and brownstone are completely different. It is amusing, though, that generally that brownstone/grey stone was just a facade on top of brick - kind of like the precast facades of today aren't 'real'.
So just so I have this correct
By UHubMixologist
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 2:09pm
All the brick houses in Beacon Hill, South End and other places like NYC, Brooklyn etc are not Brownstone?
Correct. They are brick
By hux
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 2:30pm
Correct. They are brick houses.
You and I will have to agree to disagree
By UHubMixologist
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 4:22pm
A brownstone is any property that is sheathed in sandstone.
Such as the ones you have shown pictures of above, but also brick homes of Beacon Hill, South End and other well known brownstones like Philadelphia's Delancy Place and the brownstones of Georgetown.
You're not actually disagreeing
By Sock_Puppet
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 4:31pm
Most of us agree that, to be a brownstone, a property (most typically a townhouse) must be sheathed in sandstone.
The point that seems to be escaping you is that the "brick homes of Beacon Hill, South End, etc." are not sheathed in sandstone, and thus are not brownstones. They're sheathed in brick, which means they don't fit your own criterion above - much as Gatehouse 75 doesn't.
Relatively few properties in Boston are sheathed in sandstone. Most homes in Beacon Hill, South End, etc. are brick, not brownstone.
It's a very specific
By anon
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 10:53pm
It's a very specific definition. They are very similar but not the same.
Exactly
By Doug
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 2:52pm
Exactly. Brownstone is a material and method that is unrelated to brick. But in your defense, the word brownstone has been inaccurately used to describe stately row-houses for so long that you are half right; In fact I have heard the amusing phrase "a lovely brick brownstone". But when describing the material, you would be incorrect.
Shocking isn't it?
By Sock_Puppet
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 2:54pm
And all the cats in Beacon Hill, South End and other places like NYC, Brooklyn etc are not dogs.
Well
By bgl
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 3:37pm
There are Brownstones in all of those places. There are also other types of row houses that are made from other materials - like bricks.
The local ones aren't
By anon
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 10:51pm
The local ones aren't brownstones, it's a common misconception.
Often in the South End and
By Heather
Fri, 12/02/2016 - 11:04am
Often in the South End and Beacon Hill, the stoops and window sashes are made of Brownstone.
Mash of Words
By cybah
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 3:06pm
A "brownstone" is a type of building also. Not just the material it's made out of. Yes originally the term was because of what it is made out of, but now it's more to describe a building style. We pretty much interchange the words now.
And yeah a good portion of the buildings in the NoEnd/SoEnd/BB/etc are made of brick because brick laying was a huge industry here over a century ago. (and in some ways still is) Only in the Northeast do we have so many brick buildings.. it's pretty uncommon outside the Northeast due to the lack of natural resources to make the brick. (Friends from SF are always amazed at how much brick we have here)
I remember when Krispy Kreme opened in Medford, the city REQUIRED us to have at least 80% Medford Brick. And yes it had to be "Medford Brick" so it was made and laid right in Medford. Which is why Kelly's.. in the old KK.. is a brick building, and not white stucco like most of the KK's across the country.
Disagree. Brownstone is not a
By anon
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 3:09pm
Disagree. Brownstone is not a synonym for townhouse. It's a building with a brownstone face.
Travel more
By Sock_Puppet
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 3:24pm
"Only in the Northeast do we have so many brick buildings.."
You should visit Chicago someday. Or Saint Louis. Or Milwaukee. All of them have a higher proportion of brick buildings than does Boston.
Bricks aren't used much in San Francisco because they suck in earthquakes.
Chicago, on the other hand... look up the Monadnock Building. Seventeen stories of structural brick. We don't have that in Boston.
I also disagree - the type of
By bgl
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 3:40pm
I also disagree - the type of building is a row-house, and the material is brownstone. Also, you don't see brick in SF because they aren't great in earthquakes, but you do see a ton of it in places like Chicago (which is the base of their grey stones).
Mash of Words again
By cybah
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 5:34pm
Sorry.. you're grasping at straws. It's like several words in the English language where originally it meant one thing but now is used to describe something else of a similar style.
"Cell Phone" is good example. Cell Phone means Cellular Telephone. "Cellular" is the original technology used for mobile phones (the AMPS technology). However that technology hasn't been used in over 20 years for phones. Yet many people still refer to their iPhone as a "Cell Phone" when it really isn't one.
Another example is any thing where you call it by the brand name, and not the actual name. Things like "Windex", even though you purchased "Glass Plus", most people it "Windex". Same for "Kelvinator" (an old refrigerator brand), Oreos (when you purchased store brand chocolate creme cookies), Coke (where you purchased store brand soda.. or even Pepsi), and "Teflon Pan" (even though "teflon".. the material is seldom used anymore)
Hell even words like "gay", which the original meaning was "Happy". Yet "gay" today is used to describe a homosexual and is seldom used to describe a feeling.
It's all in how the words are used. Welcome to the English language where it's constantly changing. Unlike languages like French, where there are 'standards' set on words you can use and what definitions they are. English, Nothing is ever cut and dry since it is constantly changing.
And much like "brownstone", you can argue this point till the cows come home on whether it's correct or not. But I'll continue calling a "brownstone" to describe an architectural style of building because the English language says i can. But thanks for playing.. Now here's Roddy to tell you about some wonderful departing gifts you are getting...
Feel free
By Sock_Puppet
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 6:00pm
Feel free to call the yellow stuff they put on your asparagus "holiday sauce." Feel free to call the device you put your debit card into an "ATM machine." Feel free to use an apostrophe for every plural. Feel free to use "I" as an object pronoun. Feel free to use the words "irregardless," "supposably," "flustrated," "participator," "expresso," and "sherbert." Feel free to use "adverse" to mean "disinclined," "bemused" to mean "humored," "depreciate" to mean "disparage," "enervate" to mean "energize," "fortuitous" to mean "fortunate." And of course feel free to use "brownstone" to mean "row house."
The English language won't stop you, and very few people will even comment. Some will raise their eyebrows ever so slightly.
psst
By ElizaLeila
Fri, 12/02/2016 - 9:13am
You forgot "libary".
And that sometimes exterior steps are cement.
And those beams (vertical) are holding up the roof.
OK
By bgl
Fri, 12/02/2016 - 11:17am
Not really sure who you replied to, but, hey, nice condescending tone and attempt at a lecture on the English language. Anyways, Windex (and Xerox/Kleenex/etc) are examples of proprietary eponyms/genericized trademark that have become synonymous with the generic product generally due to very aggressive marketing/being forced into vernacular - versus words that holistically evolved as part of language (your example of 'gay' would be a good illustration).
Anyways - yes, the term brownstone has become more generalized to mean row-houses, but, it is still technically correct (the best kind of correct) that to be a real brownstone it needs to have a veneer of, well, brownstone.
Anyways, all of this is really moot as the entire point of my pointing this out to the OP was because he said Gatehouse 75 in Charlestown had a brownstone front -- Gatehouse 75 is neither a row house, nor does it have a brownstone facade (it is brick), so I think we both can at least agree that Gatehouse 75 has nothing to do with brownstone (architecturally or material-wise).
Almost all development in the past 60 years
By BostonDog
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 12:09pm
Almost all mid-rise, multi-unit, mass constructed buildings built since the end of WWII looks horrible within 20 years of construction. These will be no exception.
Few developers and consumers are willing to spend the cash needed for classic brick and stone designs.
"Brick" and "Stone"
By SwirlyGrrl
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 12:13pm
In modern construction, these are simply superficial facade specifications anyway.
They may "look" more traditional, but their construction is essentially the same as what we see in this conceptual design.
I'm happy to see Boston get away from "but its gotta be brick"!
I would take a brick facade
By bgl
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 12:33pm
I would take a brick facade/veneer over value-engineered prefab bland panels that will look like crap in a decade or two any day. Yay for fat squat boxes !
ugh
By ElizaLeila
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 3:41pm
There is no value and there is no engineering.
Horrible term.
Jumbo Shrimp
By bgl
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 4:37pm
Nothing wrong with an oxymoron :)
augh!
By ElizaLeila
Fri, 12/02/2016 - 9:14am
What an Oxy-Maroon!
But they don't look the same
By BostonDog
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 1:15pm
There is a softness and class to the slight imperfections found when building with real bricks which can't be reproduced with pre-fab brick panels. The late 1800s buildings had decorative facades around the windows, doors, and roof which are completely absent from today's designs even if it would be possible to recreate using more modern materials.
The "Gotta be brick" crowd was asking for the wrong thing. It isn't the bricks themselves that look nice, it's the whole package with unique craftsmanship and details. There's nothing wrong inherently with pre-fab panels, it's just that they aren't customized until something unique and interesting.
The craftsmen of the late 1800s and early 1900s are long gone.
Load bearing Masonry is probably gone
By bgl
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 1:06pm
But, real brick facades are still done and have been done recently. Load bearing I don't see as something that will come back anytime soon though. A lot that 18/19th century charm is also from the years of weathering that the bricks and stone facades have had.
New Buildings @ Canal
By Banrion
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 1:28pm
The new buildings 1 Canal, and whatever the one on Valenti way is designated have used real bricks for their facades. I walk through there everyday, I kinda cool to see 3 giant trucks stacked with bricks in the morning and be nearly empty by the time I come through in the evening. I like watching the process of the buildings go up.
Yup, there have been others,
By bgl
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 3:41pm
Yup, there have been others, too.
Load bearing masonry
By ElizaLeila
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 3:52pm
It's done depending upon use and size of project. For example a "small" washbay for a Town's DPW is load bearing due to size, ability to withstand the corrosive marine-like environment of washing down salt trucks, etc. Small because there are some big trucks that need to fit though it. There is no added charm in this particular instance because it matches the mid-90's building it is adjacent to.
Costs multiply when scaled up to a larger building, especially when adding in the insulation needs, continuous air/vapor barrier requirements - tied into the roof vapor barrier, installed on winter warm side of the insulation in our zone, etc. All code mandated.
Walls get thicker and thicker as a result. Especially when you then add in the inside 'skin' of metal stud and GWB. And then all your money is spent. :/
Its all about labor costs.
By hux
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 2:01pm
The biggest reason is simply the cost of labor. The craftsman aren't gone, they've unionized, and are now extremely expensive. The labor of a craftsman was much cheaper in 1800s-early 1900s than it is today.
Panelized systems are faster, saving time, which means saving money. Hence why developers love them.
I don't think the average citizen realizes just how expensive it is to build in Boston vs. other places. You're going to be using union labor, and if you try to prefab components your building out of the city, you'll get denied at the ZBA or BPDA.
It's really counterintuitive to say "We need more middle income housing," and in the same breath say "But you have to use union labor, and cannot prefab building elements out of the city or state." Basically a catch-22 for developers. With these factors, and the tendency of the city and neighbors to demand parking (which is very, very expensive to build), it's no wonder everything that gets built has to be sold as luxury.
Further
By ElizaLeila
Fri, 12/02/2016 - 9:22am
Beyond this reality, behind the scenes we bemoan the fact that we don't have masons anymore, we have bricklayers.
There are some schools which are trying to bring back the craftsmanship of yore. http://americancollegeofthebuildingarts.com/ for example
More locally we can find craftsmen such as Robert Shure of Skylight Studios and Carl Close of Hammersmith Studios to say nothing of the many artists in and around town. I just happen to have worked for and with these two fine people.
Agreed. Brick and stone gets
By anon
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 12:34pm
Agreed. Brick and stone gets the best return on one's investment.
Ehhhhh not quite
By hux
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 2:37pm
That assumes a developer will hold the property for an extended period of time, like 100 years. Highly, highly unlikely. They tend to build cheap, fill the units/ retail leases, then sell the property.
If what you say were really the case, then every typical 4-over-1 would be built out of laid up brick. Instead it's generally 4 levels (residential, wood-stick built) over 1 level (retail, concrete). That is by far the cheapest materials/method for construction, which is exactly why you see it pretty much everywhere.
My immediate reaction was
By Brent Jeffries
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 2:51pm
My immediate reaction was that the architects pulled a Melania and just copied some other renderings and then slapped the word Arsenal at the bottom.
LOL
By cybah
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 2:58pm
hahahahahaahahahahah Good one. I'm gonna steal that.
So you're gonna pull a
By Brent Jeffries
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 3:08pm
So you're gonna pull a Melania on me? :) By all means, use it freely!
touche!
By cybah
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 5:35pm
LOL touche!
It also looks very similar to
By Kat E Leesi
Thu, 12/01/2016 - 1:27pm
It also looks very similar to the brand new Residence Inn on Arsenal Street (just down the street from the mall, closer to Watertown Sq) that recently finished construction.
https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-o/0d...
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