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The last time we banned refugees fleeing a blood-thirsty dictator, one Massachusetts congresswoman stood up

Nourse

In 1938, after Germany expelled thousands of Polish Jews from the Reich and then organized the Kristallnacht pogroms, US Rep. Edith Nourse Rogers (R-Lowell) joined with Sen. Robert Wagner (D-NY) to introduce a bill to admit into the US 20,000 Jewish children fleeing the Nazis.

Unfortunately for them and the children, US antisemitism and isolationism was reaching its peak about the same time and the bill died, as, eventually, did many of the children.

Painting from the House of Representatives, Historical Highlights.

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Comments

The history lesson but it's apples to raisins here.

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^

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Not all people from countries which have radical religious issues are refugees. Please advise which country currently has a situations remotely close to that of Nazi Germany.

Apples and Oranges.....

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Next question?

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scapegoating various groups of people, walling off the country from others, putting various cronies in power

i figured you'd hit him with the ol U S A

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Civil war and genocide are not one in the same.

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Assad is practicing genocide in his civil war.

HTH.

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Adam, don't get me wrong, I see the analogy, but there are faults with comparing Syria today with Europe at the outset of World War 2. Assad is not engaged in genocide. Yes, he is acting like a tyrant, but which ethnicity or religion is he trying to wipe from Syria? No, he is looking to wipe his opposition from the land, which is bad, but not genocide bad.

The Nazis had a well oiled machine and clear objectives. Syria is murky. Daesh is the only clear cut evil, since they are looking to destroy all who don't believe in their version of Islam. The Baathists are clearly Alawite, but while they want their people running the country, they will work with Christians and Sunnis who support them. The FSA have admirable goals, but there are Islamist elements in the opposition who have no regard for Shiites and Christians. The fall of the Baathists could lead to infighting in the opposition that could lead to a situation like Iraq.

In short, the Nazis were out to destroy certain groups (mainly the Jews, but others too) while in Syria people are more into the political side of killing people. A civil war. A very, very bloody civil war, but genocide is a reach.

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Dithering over the exact application of the word genocide saves how many children and others from certain death in a war-torn country?

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Fine, you want your apples to apples.

Hitler murdered innocent civilians using chemical weapons. Assad is, or has used chemical weapons to murder innocent civilians.

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So did the Basthists in Iraq. Does that make GW Bush a great President for invading Iraq and removing Hussein from power?

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Did it make Reagan and George Bush senior war criminals for giving Hussein the chemical weapons he used?

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And you are not my student...

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you refuse to elaborate on your remark. right. makes sense.

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The many stories which discuss Boston's role in previous immigration battles are interesting and informative.

Perhaps in 100 years the UHub equivalent will be posting stories about how Boston responded in 2017 when a fringe politician became president. Time will tell if the articles will take a positive or negative tone. (Assuming Boston hasn't been vaporized or submerged by then.)

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The NAZIS were brutally oppressing Jewish and other people to the point of murdering millions. This is not the case with the vast majority of 'undocumented', let alone the vast number of B1 work visa workers brought here to suppress wages. Many companies even have the chutzpah to force American workers to train their foreign replacements with all kinds of retaliatory threats if they refuse.

The best modern day comparison to Nazi Germany is China (the PRC), which Democrats, Republicans, so-called progressives and neocons have all encouraged.

And I've spoken to many people from Central America and they all to a T said they were more afraid of leftist guerrillas than government troops and even death squads. Latin America BADLY needs to get their shit together. It's the home grown culture of endemic dysfunction and horrendous corruption that's the root causes of their problems and by extension ours.

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not happening you say?

i wonder what its like to be a woman in those countries

lol no, actually, i dont wonder because why would i even want to

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We're not talking about Central America here.

We're talking about a regime that thinks nothing of killing its own people - look up barrel bombs and poison gas, Syrian use of. Who else thought nothing of mass murder on a national scale? And if the scale isn't impressive enough for you, that's probably only because Syria's a much smaller country than Nazi Germany.

The net effect is the same, though: Dead babies, dead children, dead parents, dead people.

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Its too bad Obama never acted upon that "red line" Asaad crossed. Perhaps more lives would have been saved?

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The world didn't go from Hitler getting out of jail and founding the NSDAP to the final solution. The Weimar Republic's contraction is comparable to the (mostly false) views taken on by a good number of the voting populations if we take their word at face value. That prepped their populous for their lurch toward facism. Read some history before posting something so fucking ignorant.

What's going on now, is exactly how it happened. Slowly and methodocally. Shit like this tends to snowball because of the breakdown in political and social norms. This is fucking dangerous as any student of history will tell you.

The propganda, the lack of facts and rationality, the appeal to irrational fear not based on reality, the demonizing of the other, the media, and the political opposition.

We're walking a very dangerous line right now. It can happen here, and when it does it will be fast and people will be left bewildered and mostly just trying to pick up the pieces as it becomes everyone for themselves.

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"from Central America" you "talked to"

... I assume they were all exiled elites if they "feared leftist guerrillas" so much, because those are the only ones who do. Also, its not 1985 anymore.

Because I work with actual Central American refuge-seekers. People who have literally walked from Guatemala to Mexico City or lost limbs riding on La Bestia, whose neighborhoods are controlled by gangs that their (US-supported) governments won't control.

Your little yarn is false and bad and you should feel bad.

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...before moderate Republicans became extinct.
Massachusetts was blessed with a bunch of them. Margaret Heckler was my Rep and a personal favorite. Of course, her replacement was even better :-)

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Thank you!

Edith Nourse Rogers
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edith_Nourse_Rogers#German_refugees

"The expulsion of Jews from Germany without proper papers caused a refugee crisis in 1938, and after the Evian Conference failed to lift immigration quotas in the 38 participating nations, Edith Rogers co-sponsored the Wagner-Rogers Bill with Senator Robert F. Wagner.

"Introduced to the Senate on February 9, 1939 and to the House on February 14, it would have allowed 20,000 German Jewish refugees under the age of 14 to settle in the United States."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89vian_Conference
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner%E2%80%93Rogers_Bill
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_F._Wagner

Richard Breitman; Alan M. Kraut (1987). American Refugee Policy and European Jewry, 1933-1945. Indiana University Press. p. 73ff.
https://books.google.com/books?id=vw5dzCOcRWsC&pg=PA73#v=onepage&q&f=false

Robert A. Slayton. ‘Children in Europe Are Europe’s Problem!’ Commentary Magazine, October 2014.
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/children-in-europe-are-europ...

Marion E. Kenworthy (1891-1980) Papers at the American Jewish Historical Society, New York, NY
http://digifindingaids.cjh.org/?pID=364875

"Two proposals to liberalize present immigration laws failed to receive favorable action.

"A bill (S. J. R. 64) by Senator Wagner—D., N. Y.—to allow 10,000 German refugee children to enter the United States outside the quota during each of the next two years was reported by the Senate Immigration Committee, July 1, with an amendment providing that the children should be given preference for admission under the quota.

"In this form, the measure was unacceptable to its sponsor, and it was not taken up on the floor.

"A companion (H. J. R. 168) by Rep. Rogers—R., Mass.—had not been reported at the close of the session."
http://library.cqpress.com/cqresearcher/document.php?id=cqresrre1939080700

Wagner-Rogers Child Refugee Bill 1939 76th Congress
S. J. R. 64, 76th Congress 1939 Wagner
H.R.J. Res. 165, 76th Cong., 1st Sess. (1939) Dingell
H.R.J. Res. 168, 76th Cong., 1st Sess. (1939) Rogers
H. J. Res 362, 76th Congress 1939 Kramer

Admission of German refugee children : hearings before the Committee on Immigration and Naturalization, House of Representatives, Seventy-sixth Congress, first session on H.J. Res. 165 and H.J. Res. 168, joint resolutions to authorize the admission to the United States of a limited number of German refugee children,
May 24-June 1, 1939.
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uiug.30112004208150;view=2up;seq=6

Admission of German Refugee Children
Joint Hearings Before A Subcommittee Of The Committee On Immigration.
United States Senate And A
Subcommittee Of The Committee On Immigration And Naturalization
House Of Representatives Seventy-Sixth Congress First Session
On S. J. Res. 64 and H. J. Res. 168
Joint Resolutions To Authorize The Admission Into The United States Of
A Limited Number Of German Refugee Children
April 20, 21, 22, And 24, 1939
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015030514627;view=2up;seq=12

Congressional Record
https://archive.org/stream/congressionalrec84aunit#page/n642/mode/1up

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Is not a scholarly source.
Here's your tinfoil hat....go sit down over there please.

Adams's commentary, spin, agenda, or whatever you would call it, is definitely showing these days and imho it's kinda disappointing. That, combined with the fact that I believe he is also posting more (hard to not take the bait these days as hes admitted) responses/ comments---long and short, it's ruining the literary/ journalistic integrity that this joint has been known for.

"Pay no attention to the man behind the..."

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but for any serious article on the site there are usually dozens of citations from, i bet you guessed my next words, scholarly sources!

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It is well documented that genocide is being committed against the Syrian population - the purposeful bombing of civilians, hospitals, refugee camps, etc by Russians and the State government. And similarly - when it could have made a significant difference for the Jews, the US turned its back on refugees.

The popular dialog and nationalistic actions being taken by the newly elected President is very much analogous to the approach used by Hitler to gain authority and power early in his assession to Chancellor. Power grabs and dystopian actions occur in increments. I will remind you of Executive Order 9066, issued February 19, 1942, which allowed regional military commanders to designate "military areas" from which "any or all persons may be excluded

This power was used to declare that all people of Japanese ancestry were excluded from the entire West Coast, including all of California and much of Oregon, Washington and Arizona, except for those in government camps Approximately 5,000 Japanese Americans voluntarily relocated outside the exclusion zone before March 1942, and some 5,500 community leaders arrested after the Pearl Harbor attack were already in custody. But, the majority of nearly 130,000 mainland Japanese Americans were forcibly relocated from their West Coast homes during the spring of 1942.

Somewhat off-topic, however, I am curious - wasn't going to ask the question but given your antagonistic demeanor I figured what the heck - your board ID "The_Wiz seems quite apropos - is this a descriptor or a state of mind - would one be wrong to say "You big Whiz" or is it more accurate to ask "are you looking for a "golden Whiz?" Just wondering.

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its shorthand for imperial wizard

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How did I miss that…!!! Mr. Big Whiz - your new name is the Imperial Wizard (aka: The _Wiz) !!

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In allusion, I thought as I picked the name. "What the heck," as you say....moreover, you say antagonistic, I say thought provoking. I mean, not only am I illiciting responses to my comments (see trolling) but sparking legit "off topics," whereupon one might wonder.

Yaaaawn.

Xo

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There are crosses to be lit - graffiti to be scrawled. You get the gas can, Mr Wizard?

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Sounds like you have it under control without me. You even got the venerable squirrelygirl to chime in!!

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You're obviously annoyed at what I post and what you read here. Is the stress really worth it?

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I don't think that fits the common definition of 'genocide' at all. It's war, and people there are suffering wartime atrocities, but it's not like one ethnic group is being wiped out by another.

It's a civil war between Assad, ISIS, and other rebels, with belligerents getting support from many external groups. The civilians getting bombed are not the targets. They're just innocent bystanders.

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Call it genocide, call it civil war, at the end of the day, innocent civilians are dead or dying.

Hitler killed people. Assad is killing people. They're still dead, whether they died in a gas chamber or from poison gas sprayed by a plane.

Sorry, no matter how fine the hairs are that you split, we're still talking about bodies stacking up somewhere or left to be eaten by dogs. The numbers keep going up, more people keep dying, and we're now ruled by a man-baby with no sense of empathy whatsoever.

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at the end of the day, genocide leaves every single person dead. war leaves survivors.

In an actual genocide, the only way to save the lives of potential victims is 1) military intervention or 2) evacuating all the refugees. The killing won't stop on its own. The winning side wants to continue killing as long as possible. In more common war, like Syria, the killing stops when one side is victorious and the other sides admit defeat. For Syria, the election of Trump probably hastens the end of the civil war. Trump's apparent goal is to have Russia help Assad retain control and shut down ISIS and the rebel factions and bring stability to the region. Once ISIS is bombed out, the fighting might stop.

Calling it a genocide has a big effect on how you deal with it. It's not splitting hairs. There's a real difference.

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There were survivors of the Shoah. Perhaps you've heard of Elie Weisel? There were survivors of the Killing Fields. Look up Dith Pran. I'm not as familiar with the Armenian holocaust, but I'm sure people survived that as well.

Yes, the fact that Jews were singled out for the Holocaust gives it its unique horror, one the denialists now in the White House are attempting to gloss over.

But tens of thousands dead are tens of thousands dead. Should we treat refugees from a merciless, brutal civil war differently because the people they left behind did not die in ovens but were instead targeted by military jets and bombs and poison gas?

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Which race, religion, or ethnic group is Assad trying to wipe out from Syria?

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Ugh.

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Here's a LPT: when writing a post, avoid using the world's 'you' and 'your'. That makes the difference between meaningful debate and ad-hominem attacks.

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Using obscure jargon and internet acronyms negates communication attempts outside of whatever discussion forum you use most.

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It's a shame you spend your time on things you don't enjoy.

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