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If Jim McGovern really wants a challenge
By adamg on Fri, 05/18/2007 - 8:18am
He should go more than just a week on food stamps, Margalit writes:
... For me, one of the most gratifying results of [McGovern's week] was reading the comments that other people are leaving. So many stories are similar to mine. So many disabled people that don't qualify for food stamps. So many people that are desperately poor and yet fall through the 'safety net' in this rich country. Most of the time I feel very alone. Nobody I know struggles like we do. Nobody we know has hungry children like I do. I don't know a soul that sends their kids to bed at night, knowing that they are hungry but not being able to do anything about it. I don't know anyone that wears clothing as old as mine, or that can't afford simple things like buying new underwear or socks. ...
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Comments
This struck a nerve for me for two reasons:
1. Only 4 Congressional representatives out of 450 even agreed to participate.
2. My son-in-law is in the Coast Guard so I relate directly to Lisa Magovern's comments about poverty and food stamps and the military.
A Coast Guard Petty Officer makes about $21K per year. Even with a housing allowance, try living in Boston with a family on that. Car insurance alone would be 5% of your gross pay. And the much vaunted health coverage? There is only one Boston hospital that eve PARTIALLY accepts it. One is left with the alternative of a drive to Newport RI or Hanscom.
Think about how valued you would feel,too, escorting LNG tankers into Everett at 2AM on a freezing winter morning, while your own heating bill goes unpaid.
I'm with Matgalit, - let's have all 550 of 'em live on $21K FOR A YEAR and see how it works out for them. I'll be generous and throw in the basic allowance for housing, but you have to take on Tri-Care health insurance. Good luck!
Follow the link: I don't
Follow the link: I don't understand how someone can live in a million dollar house and still get foodstamps. There are some very poor people in the country who need assistance. If you can afford $300 ipods for the kids you can buy some new socks.
How are so many people commenting?
How do so many people on food stamps have computers and internet access? When I was teaching and making $13k a year, I had student loans, rent and standard bills. I bought bulk bags of rice and beans and that is what I ate for lunch and dinner. I worked part time and there were usually bagels and fruit left over in the conference room (and I loaded up my bag... coworkers would save me sandwiches, chips and sodas from lunch meetings and stash them in my desk.) Those were the good weeks.
I didn't have cable, a cell phone (much less a home phone). I walked five miles to my part time job because I usually didn't have money to take the T. I tried to make it to the library as often as I could (hated when they closed on Saturdays in the summer). That was my entertainment, books and videos that I borrowed. I was (am) a college educated, ablebodied, resourceful person without children. I had the desire, ability and resources to overcome the limited budget. I am aware that there are people who do not have those and that is why they are in their situation. And I want to help them as much as we can as a society.
I am sure some of the people posting are using library computers but some have home comptuers and home internet access. They may have cellphones. Those are LUXURIES. Is $21 a week a reasonable food allowance? No. Absolutely not. But it baffles me that people can have cable, cellphones and internet in these conditions.
You forgot they all drive Cadillacs, too
How do you know that they're all welfare queens sucking at the public teat?
*sigh*
I said *SOME*. I did not mean to imply *ALL*. Why do people do that? Why can people not have a meaningful conversation and not assume someone is saying ALL people on welfare are abusing the system. I was commenting that SOME people are living off $21 a week but have internet access.
Examples...
I get $16 a MONTH in food stamps
My food stamp allotment is $20. FOR THE MONTH.
As soon as I hit submit I realized people were going to turn this into me saying that everyone on welfare is wearing Prada. I am just saying that I have worked at homeless shelters and have talked to some people who think that having a cellphone is a 'necessity.' I think we need to reevaluate priorities. How many people in this country are over their heads in credit card debt because they think cable, cellphones and internet access are necessities. Margalit is a writer it says, so internet access is probably a job necessity. Phone access is a necessity but there are some bare bones cellphone plans out there.
I'll end by saying I NEVER meant to imply that everyone on food stamps should jump up and down and be grateful that they are getting help. I apologize if that is how it came off. I am just saying that there is a large portion of the population (me included) who need to reassess priorities. They should cut out or cut back on some luxuries and start saving. I remind myself of the 'lean years' and try to be better but I am a wasteful lower middle-class person aka an average American.
(Again sorry to anyone who took it the wrong way, but please open your minds and do not attack.)
Land line land mine
Celphones are much cheaper than having an actual phone in your house. My husband has a pay as you go phone - $39 up front for the phone, $0.20 a minute, refillable. If he were single he might get a plan that had nearly unlimited in the US minutes for the $35/month we pay for mine. Or he might just not use the phone very much and pay much less than that.
We cut off our local phone service because the most basic service that didn't even cover Boston during the day (where I work) ran $55/month. My cel phone, his cel phone, and our son's cel phone together cost us less than $50/month together and call all over the US.
Do the math yourself.
Of course, it sounds like it has been a looooonnnnnggg time since you ever had to make such decisions or bother worrying about whether you could afford to have in-house phone service. You just like to make your judgements and feel oh so smug about it.
Jerk.
Who is the jerk???
"Phone access is a necessity but there are some bare bones cellphone plans out there."
Read this part right here
If you are in a homeless shelter and trying to find a job or a better job and get out, you need a stable phone number. Simple.
When I was a kid...
...we walked to school with no shoes on. Up hill both ways in the snow. We had to make our own paper. And we were lucky to eat ketchup sandwiches once a day - AND WE LIKED IT!
Ever hear of a LIBRARY?
First of all, housing is a huge cost. We were able to hang on to our home during tough times because we bought in a less inflated market. Because we were ABLE to buy, we didn't face rent increases, either. Just try to find a home ANYWHERE within 50 miles of Boston that doesn't require a mortgage payment of $2500 a month OR ownership of two cars to get anywhere.
I suspect our fair Margalit is one of many people in the "informal economy" who live in million dollar houses because they get a room or a small apartment in that dwelling in exchange for cleaning and repairs or management of the premises IN ADDITION to their regular jobs.
Secondly, anybody can get internet access at a library. EVERYONE is entitled to that. Then again, you seem to be pretty dim when it comes to what you are entitled to and not because you clearly haven't examined your own.
Pull it out, please.
Actually...
"I am sure some of the people posting are using library computers but some have home comptuers and home internet access."
I think the commenter is familiar with the concept of library access.
The commenter is perhaps not wrong that a lot of people have their financial priorities seriously skewed; Americans love to live beyond their means. (Been there, done that, currently in recovery).
The commenter is probably wrong to apply blanket assumptions to Margalit's case, without knowing her specific situation.
Not blanket statements
Again, I never meant to make a blanket statement! I was saying that 'some' of the posters may be paying for home internet access when they maybe could use that money to help their grocery bill.
Its difficult in these forums to express a point, I know that. I regret making my statements here, but I stand by what I said. I NEVER meant to imply that every person posting on the other forum is sitting in a silk bathrobe eating bon bons posting on their slick iMac. Its just that we all need to realign our priorities from time to time.
Cable is and always will be a luxury to me. I turn it off at the drop of a hat. (Funny the post below about orthodontia... I had to have dental surgery and canceled my cable, home phone and bumped down my cell plan... and got a part-time job to pay for it.) I am not saying I am anywhere near poverty but if I had an accident or medical issue that prevented me from working I do not have the savings to support myself. I would live off credit cards and then who knows. If I were smart (I don't know if I am 'dim' per se) I would not have cable and/or cell phone and would put that $100/month into a rainy day account. I do need home internet access for work but it pains me to pay $45/month. I would love to drop that expense as well.
Margalit, I sincerely apologize again. I am not making statements about you and am sorry if it has been skewed that way.
Ever hear of anger management?
Please read the entire post...
"I am sure some of the people posting are using library computers but some have home comptuers [sic] and home internet access. "
Happy Happy Joy Joy
Ah yes, just give me all the happy pills in the world so I can just kind of forget about all the lovely long-term consequences of early poverty that I still deal with on a daily basis, even if I've managed to lift my family beyond experiencing them for themselves.
Gotta keep up with the McJudgersons in the smugsmile department, afterall. Annoyance at marginalization is so lower class and can easily be fixed by unsolicited moral advice and some good meds!
What are some of the
What are some of the long-term consequences of early poverty that you deal with on a daily basis?
Not to sound like a senior center litany ...
but poverty has a long term price.
In my case, its mostly about teeth that have poor enamel, and how several are broken and missing because of a lack of money to care for problems that would have been prevented by timely orthodontic care.
My mother has rheumatic fever problems to this day because her family could not afford medical care - heart valve issues, arthritis, etc.
As an epidemiologist, I am very much aware that I am not alone in this issue - the effects of even short-term poverty last well beyond the time of deprivation.
One of my former co-workers grew up in an impoverished family
and she's had to deal with the consequences of it all through her life into adulthood: arthritis, bad teeth, poor health, generally.
You want answers
I RENT. In an old, falling apart house. An apartment. Not a full house. It's the cost of housing that's insane. If you saw how tiny our house is, how pathetic the kitchen is, how it's falling apart at the seams, you would have gotten the irony of the statement. It's a million dollar house BECAUSE we live in Boston, hence the ridiculously high cost of living. It isn't worth the money. It's just the market carries junky old houses at a million dollar pricerange.
As for ASSumptions, have you ever heard of a gift? The Ipod was won in a contest. I didn't buy it.
Jerk.
you missed the entire point because you're judgy mcjudgerson and think you're better than me. You're not. Believe me, compassion is a much better commodity to have than being a judgemental jerk.
please
I may be a jerk, but you make it sound like you're living in a million dollar house that you own. Boston is expensive, sorry. It's like that for everyone.
BTW, I'm not unfamiliar with being poor. As a child, my family (3 people, no dad) had to scrounge pretty hard, cereal for dinner, 1 br apt, etc. Here wages were just above the cutoff for assistance. That is the worst situation, poor but not poor enough. The kids in my school with assistance had the Air jordans, nintendo's; we were borrowing from family for rent.
Being a critical thinker is much better than self pity. Compassion is fine when it is appropriately directed.
Been there, not like that
Yep, raised in a rotting trailer, just past the aid line so really very below it.
Oh, and we scavenged soda cans and bottles for money, and went hunting and fishing when the money ran low, as always, around the 20th of the month.
But I won't ennoble that way of life, or wish it on another as some sort of perverse dominatrix-inspired character building exercise. I won't just *explain* to her how she should buy a shotgun and cruise the neighborhood for rabbits because that is kind of what we did. Or take fish from the Muddy River and feed them to her family. What was once possible is no longer possible, regarless of your past resentments about what the other kids wore!
Nor will I *advise* anybody to cut out *luxuries* (hah!) and start saving money (right!) like that is at all possible when you are really poor - somebody always needs something, or somebody always faults you for having savings and cuts off your aid. Simply the way it works.
Then there is the pay me now or later game - or "why I have to have teeth pulled and replaced and removed from my jaw when they never came down" because my parents could not afford orthodontia. Oh the LUXURY of that!
So?
Even if she did own it, a lot of people own large homes because they inherited them from grandma or the ex or whoever, and they're now in disrepair and aren't exactly assets. A lot of these people would actually be worse off selling the place. The point is, you can't know what someone's financial situation is like based on where they live, whether they rent or own, or what kind of possessions they have. Regardless, what purpose does it serve to judge someone's feelings about their situation?
when you put yourself online
I don't think you should expect everyone to agree with you. The original poster put her opinions out for the world to read. Others here are just countering them. What purpose does it serve to put a blog out for the public and then get pissy when alternating opinions come in(McJudgerson, come on).
I still call shenanigans on the original post. Complaining about how foodstamps aren't enough so that you can get good dental care? I always pictured public assistance for those who were trying to feed their kids. Not those looking for a few cavities filled. (Yes, I know oral health is implicated in many general health problems. What's next, subsidized memberships to Bally's). The original poster is an epidemiologist. That requires an advanced degree and pays well in the private sector. I think a lot of people get riled up about this because we see out tax money being used in such ways.
I think generally, people expect that welfare/assistance should be used for the very needy. I think subsidizing someone's middle class lifestyle is mission creep.
If someone has, or can get a decent job and still can't pay the bills in this area, maybe they should look at a less expensive part of the country. Mass is very expensive, most of us can't afford to live where we would like. I know I can't. We all have to make hard choices and sacrifices. Move to a more affordable area, take a less satisfying job, etc.
Did you read/hear about the 12-year-old kid in Maryland
Did you read/hear about the 12-year-old kid in Maryland who died from a toothache? Seriously,
the 12-year-old kid had an absessed tooth, while the younger brother of that kid had six cavities that had to be taken care of and filled. The younger brother's six cavities were taken care of, while the 12-year-old's abcessed tooth went uncared for. One day, the 12-year-old with the abcessed tooth came home from school and complained of a headache. On a visit to the doctor, it was found that the infection that the 12-year-old kid had in his tooth had spread to his brain. Although the kid had brain surgery, he did not survive. This was simply due to the fact that the mother was too poor to afford (regular, preventive) dental care for her kids, and the 12-year-old ended up even worse off because of it.
Exactly
Certainly more severe than needing oral surgery to remove unerupted teeth blocking sinuses and causing repeated sinus infections to be sure (what was called "orthodontia" by my parent's health plan).
But that mother also went through bureaucratic hell only to see her son untreated and die. Oh, but medicare covered the brain infection. Woo hoo!
the mother of the 12-year-old kid who died ended up having
to pay the doctor's bills because she was either inadequately covered, or not covered...period.
Wishing you my severe migraines
You can have them - but on a daily and not occaisional basis. Even the ones that paralyze my optic nerves so I can't see straight enough to work or get to work.
Do you think "orthodontia" is just straightening teeth? Asshole. It is also oral surgery to remove unerupted teeth.
This was not done on a timely basis, so these teeth developed bone cysts around them that initially blocked my sinuses. When removed, there was damage that has manifested on MRI as the likely cause of these nerve problems that lead to occular migraines.
As for "spending down", my parents didn't have anything to spend down - no savings, etc. My regular dentist would have done it but he wasn't an oral surgeon. My family got free care from him ONLY because my mother's father had the cajones to steward his family's assets while they were INTERRED! It was a reward for a grand and risky act of COMPASSION (something you should aquaint yourself with, jerk).
Oh, but being Japanese, that's their fault and they should just not have been Japanese! Just, lighten their skin and round their eyes or something. Yeah.
Hold on there a minute, swirlygrrl. Who're you calling an
Hold on here a minute, swirlygrrl. Who're you calling an a*****e? The mother had little or nothing-she worked, but she was inadequately covered which is why her older kid ended up like that. Apparently she felt she had to tell the 12-year-old to suck it up, because his younger brother had problems.
Sorry for what you had to go through, btw.
Follow threads much?
I'm the epidemiologist. I have a PhD and a salary which support myself and my family. I just have to deal with things my middle-class origin coworkers don't (although there is one that has some of the same issues for the same reasons).
I don't know what Margalit does or even if she is legal to or otherwise able to work or what of it. She was the reference in the thread, not I.
You are assuming that those who support the person's contentions must be the same person - wierd to say the least! Please keep your thread straight.
i grew up on assisted living
i grew up on assisted living too i have friends still living in the projects (three generations of m) and know nothing about shooting bunnies. But just because u grew up poor means that noone else did? grow up. having a cell phone and having tooth atche is not the same thing. how odl of a girl are you, swirrly girl? 10????
there are really poor people who think that they need to drive nice cars to fit in. not that every poor person does. but we all know those one.s. i could write a book of the peole who abuse welfare. not everone one welfare does but there are too many people stealing form those who need it. (and could wirte a book of my family tring to live on welfare)
listen and stop yelling. u aren't teh only poor person evah
Um, okay
Further evidence that equal access to quality education is critical for breaking the grip of generational poverty.
What? You make it sound like
What? You make it sound like you think oral care is a luxury on par with a Nintendo and that it's somehow different from other basic medical care.
Oral health is not a luxury. As independentminded pointed out, people die from mouth problems. My great-grandfather died from an abcessed tooth. My teeth are bad due to heredity, and I can't afford to get them fixed as well as they should be right now, and I have dental insurance, work multiple jobs, and have a spouse who works multiple jobs. (Yes, we choose to live in Boston, but you know what? I couldn't afford to have them fixed right when I lived in Iowa either.)
Dental care is very expensive. Health is health, and a few unfilled cavities now can turn disastrous down the road.
I'm not going to address
I'm not going to address most of the issues raised here, but I do have to say that "judgy mcjudgerson" struck me as much funnier than most similar constructions, and I don't know why.