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Oh, for Christ's sake: Fox commentator blames loss of Enchanted Village on secular humanists, First Night
By adamg on Wed, 12/22/2010 - 6:44am
Bob Ward makes some valid points in his rant about how much better New York does Christmas than Boston these days: We get the second-string Rockettes now and have to drive to Avon to see the Enchanted Village.
But he just can't leave bad enough alone:
How did you let it all slip away? Is Christmas really that politically incorrect? Are people really offended by the idea of Christmas? I remind you, the song is called Joy to the World, not Joy to the Christian World.
Or was it the rush to create the secular and safe First Night that began the decline of Boston's Christmas?
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Comments
Jesusmas
Actually it seems like a lot of what he misses (wooden escalators, the smell of roasting chestnuts, an economically vibrant downtown retail district, piped in Christmas music) aren't necessarily explicit Christian traditions. I don't think the hordes of the politically correct are complaining about Jingle Bells, Here Comes Santa Claus, and the like being played ad nauseum (and frequently as muzak, so no lyrics). They don't necessarily have anything against chestnuts (food allergies excepted) or wooden escalators.
The lack of a Christmas feel that replicates what he had in his childhood has more to do with the ever-changing n'hoods of Boston, the down economy and, most likely, the political axe he has to grind. I mean I walk around Boston and smell roasting nuts (there's a few carts in downtown crossing, around Quincy Market and the Common/Gardens), the city has been promoting a storefront window "holiday" display deal in the n'hoods, and walk down Newbury Street, Charles Street or Hanover this time of year and you can't help feel a bit of a Christmasy vibe. And I don't think a lack of Santas or not enough commercial pushing of the season is a problem. If what he misses is overt references to the Christian celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ, go to church. If what he misses is his childhood... well join the club.
So basically, he wants to dress in a pink bunny suit
And go downtown and ask Santa for an Official Red Ryder Carbine-Action Two-Hundred-Shot Range Model Air Rifle, instead of being forced to look out over the Hole.
That damned Schwartz!!
I suppose he'd also like to be once again living in a world of predominately white Christians where the only minorities run the Chinese restaurant (conveniently open on the 25th when you lose your turkey to hounds) and you can rat out the Jewish kid to his abusive mother about teaching you swear words.
I would guess that a seriously Christ-centered celebration of Christmas jammed down his throat by Latinos would not satisfy him. Even though it's got Christ all over it, what he and the right in general wants is a return to a past where minorities/non-Christians/gays/women/etc. knew their place. All this anti-p.c. verbiage and War on Christmas crap is the morally offended outrage smoke screen for good old fashioned chauvinism of all stripes.
The New Republic online had a
The New Republic online had a good commentary on the "War on Christmas" stuff responding to Ross Douthat's editorial in the New York Times lamenting how Christmas has become too commercialized. They pointed out that conservative Christians seem to want two contradictory things. They want Christmas to be a universally celebrated holiday but they also want it to be an explicitly religious one. Well those two things can't exist together. The more explicitly and specifically religious you make Christmas the less widely it will be celebrated. It's precisely BECAUSE the religious aspect of Christmas has become so watered down that it is so widely celebrated. If you look at explicitly religious holidays like, say, Ash Wednesday, you don't see them widely celebrated in the culture. Christmas is different because it has cultural meanings which transcend the birth of Christ.
It's a crime what's happened to Christmas in Boston
I blame the Jews! What's that? Bigotry? Very well, I blame the Muslims.
Of course that Bob Ward's bio published by Fox on Fox web site.
Does Fox do credible journalism or just resentment-filled culture war pieces?
Where's your jump to conclusions mat?
That escalated quickly, Brick. Why don't you hand me the trident?
You're right on target
You're right on target John-W. The idea that this is some kind of "war on Christmas" stuff with the big bad secularists driving Christmas out is nonsense. The things Ward seems to complain about aren't explicitly religious aspects of Christmas but cultural attractions that lots of people, religious Christians, secularists, religious non-Christians, enjoy.
It also strikes me as ironic that Ward should complain about what is essentially the decline of the public square in Boston. Fox traditionally demonizes "urban elites" and conversely promotes suburbia as the epitome of "real America". Well with all the good things that come with suburbia is a general decline in the kind of public square celebrations that Ward pines away for. It also strikes me as ironic that he laments the absence of big Christmas displays such as a giant department store santa's village when it's precisely the kind of corporate culture that Fox promotes, a kind of virulent predatory capitalism which eschews any kind of corporate citizenship in favor of naked greed, that has doomed those kinds of displays that may fill us with holiday cheer but which bring little money in to the companies. And not to be too down on the suburbs but the decline of the kind of mixed private-public displays which Ward still sees in New York but misses here is due in large part to the decline of central shopping districts in urban America, which is due not to secularism but to the movement of population out of the city and to the cheaper land values in the suburbs and exurbs. You've still got some of that in Manhattan because you've got 1.5 million people crammed onto a relatively small island with a comprehensive public transit system and an unfriendly environment for cars. But Boston? No. You have plenty of shopping going on in various places but as the decline of Downtown Crossing can attest we lack a vibrant downtown shopping district which would be the anchor for the kind of celebrations which Ward would like to see.
kind of on target
The other aspect of it is simply that Boston doesn't attract as many tourists or even people from its surrounding 'burbs as NYC does. There are people in Lynn who rarely, if ever, go into Boston. Even I don't go in as often as I used to, and it's partly because even cutesy mom and pop shops are more prevalent outside Boston than within. Boston has the same chain stores the 'burbs have. It would have to offer something unique.
Well that's what I was kind
Well that's what I was kind of talking about. A half century or more ago you'd still have people from the suburbs coming in to downtown Boston to shop. Not necessarily to do their daily shopping but you'd certainly be in there for your holiday shopping at some point. Now as you say there are people just ace from Boston who probably rarely if ever go into the city and they're certainly not going to Downtown Crossing to shop. The public ceremonies which used to exist have faltered because of lack of public support. Except for the Fourth of July, Boston urban events just don't command the support which they once would have. And as Ward notes, the Christmas Village isn't gone. It just moved into the suburbs where lots of people live and can get to it. Why should someone in the suburbs drive into Boston and deal with the hassle of traffic and pay dozens of dollars for parking just to see some cheezy holiday village? Or just to go shopping at places they can go to at the local mall and get lower prices?
Only if you live south of Boston ...
... is the Enchanted Village easier to see now. If you live anywhere else, it's much harder to get to than when it was downtown.
(This is not to take anything away from Jordan's Furniture. I'm glad they saved the thing from destruction or dismemberment, even at the cost of putting it in a remote location.)
If Walmart quality
If Walmart quality cookie-cutter boring is what you're looking for, then by all means it's not worth coming into the city if you can't deal with the hassles that come along with it. I still know some suburbanites who love coming into the city to shop because they are sick and tired of boring suburban malls.
But I think, and the decline
But I think, and the decline of urban shopping districts would seem to confirm, that these people are the exceptions. I mean sometimes the ambiance works. Quincy Market attracts crowds despite having nothing that you can't find at a suburban mall. But downtown shopping districts have largely faded.
"Decline of urban shopping districts"
In what universe? That may have been true 25 years ago, but empty nesters migrated back to cities years ago and the generation that followed their children is flooding in to enjoy the cities their elders abandoned. Newbury, Copley and the South End don't seem much worse for wear. Get the DeLorean, some plutonium and a good stretch of road, because you're going to have to go pretty far back to sell that suburban dream.
John-W
I think you're completely correct. If this were reddit, I would upvote you! :)
uhm...
...that sounds vaguely obscene...will you respect me in the morning?
Well played
.
ENOUGH!!!
White christians have been oppressed far too long in this country. What kind of a world is this where radical Muslims are free to destroy skyscrapers, ending thousands of lives, only to build a house of worship within a half-mile, and I can't wish someone a Merry Christmas! It's so hypocritical! Kudos to Fox's Bob Ward, risking his credibility as an impartial reporter, for telling it how it is!!! Pass me the Herald, I've got to get my Fitzgerald on!!
What was your fine?
For wishing someone a Merry Christmas? If you want to wish someone a Merry Christmas, go for it. Maybe they'll be offended if they're Jewish or Muslim (unlikely- there isn't a huge Muslim population here), maybe they won't- it's your call. Stop being such a goddamn whiner!
enough?
A few hundred years wasn't enough for ya?
Us white Christian guys do have it pretty bad though. And we really should stand up for ourselves. Proof in point courtesy of Louis C.K.
huh??
So wish 'em Merry Christmas already. I'm so tired of this whiny drama of the "oppressed Christians" not to mention this absurd article blaming First Night of all things for the decline of downtown Boston--again...huh?? Yes, I grew up in Boston--too late to remember the vaunted Jordan Marsh blueberry muffins or R.H. Stearns but yes, I remember when Downtown Crossing was a more lively place, with that beloved, most democratic of institutions, Filene's Basement, at the heart of it. But that was before big box stores, Amazon.com and the rise of Newbury Street and the Prudential Mall. I also remember a lot of porn theaters, vacant lots, drunks and addicts and the occasional wandering streetwalker from the Combat Zone. And the Common in those days was a pretty bleak place--lots of pot smokers, not a lot of lights and certainly no Frog Pond or visitor's center. I can get as sentimental as the next guy about how great things were when I was a kid, but please--let's not confuse the issue.
Sorry
Just tried to point out that, in my experience, many of the same people who bitched about the "Ground Zero Mosque" are the same people who take on a martyr complex when it's their religious/spiritual beliefs that come under fire.
happy holidayS
oops.
You should know though that most peoples' sarcas-o-meter is blunted by the Interwebs and the unreadable tone of your average web posting. Not to mention there are like a gazillion people on Boston.com who would post this with a straight face.
I hate unsubstantiated "the
I hate unsubstantiated "the people who X are the same people who Y" arguments.
If you can't provide a verifiable example of one specific person who does both things, you shouldn't make this claim.
OK
Turn on the Dan Rea show sometime.
Wow..it's true!
Beer does kill brain cells! Did you cross post this on Stormfront? Just wondering.
Um...
I'm pretty sure The Beer Guy's post above was satirical..
(No subject)
You forgot something
Didn't you mean white MALE Christians?
It's the Holy Trinity of WAAAAAHHHH! these days.
You left off your snark tags.....
... a dangerous oversight when trying to engage in sarcasm online these days.
Oy.
I figured the Joe Fitzgerald line would have been enough to tip everyone off.
Speaking of which, someone should write a column about the goy who loves hannukah, especially lattkes.
There's only one?
I could swear there were a couple of kids in my household who disappear some evenings in early December and return stuffed full and singing the Dreidel song ...
Downtown Crossing at 9 pm is a sad place
I walked through it Monday night after a Christmas concert at a church on Beacon Hill. The sign on Macy's said it was open until 10 pm for Christmas shopping, but I sure couldn't tell that by looking in the doors (lights on but not a soul in sight) or walking down Summer Street (nobody going in or out, nobody else walking the street). Their window displays are pretty sad too, now that they're no longer competing with Filene's windows across the street.
Maybe all the shoppers were a block north at Marshall's and TJ Maxx but I somehow doubt it.
You should doubt it, Ron.
Your observation speaks volumes.
All that you need to know about what has happened in Downtown Crossing can be gleaned from the fact that the Macy's there was open until 10pm, while the one in Chestnut Hill was open until midnight.
and nyc is open even later
After a night of bar-hopping and food a few years back, my girlfriend and I went to H&M. It was open.. must have been around 3am. Try that in Boston!
I know I know.. someone will chime in with the usual "Nobody needs.." "Nobody has any business..."
Apparently, we had the need and we gave them the business.
Darling, NYC is a mighty big
Darling, NYC is a mighty big city while Boston is much much smaller. Get over it!
Dear, if Chestnut Hill can
Dear, if Chestnut Hill can stay up to midnight, Boston's affliction of closing early is more of a reflection of something else rather than we are just too small.
Dearest Cinnabon, Chestnut
Dearest Cinnabon, Chestnut Hill and Downtown Crossing, for example, are two different beasts with a different set of consequences if left open late... leave your bubble and explore different neighborhoods.
"Different set of consequences"
You ain't kidding. Didn't a lady just get slapped in the face late night at Chestnut Hill? Meanwhile, DTX gets pretty quiet for movie and happy hour riders taking the red and orange lines home. If NYC can hack it, I'm sure Boston can. P.S. There's a neighborhood to explore near Chestnut Hill? All I see are old age homes, strip malls and the failed legacy of white flight.
Uhhh...What?
"The song is called Joy to the World, not joy to the Christian world."
The next line is "THE LORD HAS COME". That's the definition of Christian.
What point is he trying to make with this reference to a Christian song????My head hurts trying to figure the logic...
I need some egg nog...
One of the ironies of Ward's
One of the ironies of Ward's rant is that a lot of the secularists he condemns would also lament the desacralization of the holiday he laments. Certainly lots of left wing Christians feel that Christmas has become too much about commercialism and Santa and not enough about the message of Jesus' ministry.
Another irony is that the universalist Christian message in many Christmas carols seems, to me at least, to be far more in keeping with left wing Christian traditions than with the right wing fundamentalist version of Christianity with which FoxNews is allied. Maybe I've just been reading too much about 19th century postmillenialism but the constant strident references to Christ as King always make me think of the utopian traditions of left wing Christianity which sees all people as equal in God's eyes and in our subjection to Christ. As Ward says the song is "Joy to the World" not "Joy to the White Fundamentalist Homophobic Free Market World"
It's a manufactured war
Nothing like media stoking the rage-fire by cooking up a "War on Christmas." There is no war on Christmas and never has been. Bah Humbug.
ps: NYC does a better job with Christmas because it started with the department stores and basically, it's all about tourists and commerce. Besides, it's kind of a bigger place with more people and it's just to scale, really.
Enchanted Village and First Night - Somewhat confused timeline
From the Jordan's Enchanted Village official page:
"the holiday display was originally created in 1958... Until 1972, when Jordan Marsh closed the display, a trip to The Village was a traditional event. The Enchanted Village remained closed from 1972 until its rebirth in 1990. Then, in 1998, when Macy’s purchased Jordan Marsh, the Village was sold to the City of Boston for a City Hall Plaza display. In 2003, a lack of funding forced the Village to move to the Hynes Convention Center. By 2006, Boston stopped displaying The Village altogether. In 2009, the Village was put up for auction.
From the First Night official page:
"Founded in 1976, First Night was started by a group of artists and local residents who sought an alternative to traditional New Year’s Eve revelry. "
For a few years, I recall the Enchanted Village (first at City Hall Plaza and then at the Hynes) being listed as an official First Night attraction.
Weird
I was born in 1975, but I could have sworn I went Downtown with my mom to look at some enchanted animatronic-type stuff when I was really little. I must have made it up.
perhaps you remember filene's?
I think Filene's had animated figures too; I remember looking at the Christmas windows at both Jordan Marsh and Filene's as a kid at DTX, in the 80s and early 90s.
Filene's and Jordan Marsh windows downtown
both used to have extensive animatronic displays (though I don't think people used that word back then). Maybe you remember the windows outside rather than the Enchanted Village, which was indoors on a high floor.
Yes
they were definitely in the windows. Thank you both- I'm not crazy after all!
What most people have forgotten is that
for a few years in the late 1970s, Jordan Marsh's original Enchanted Village was set up at the then newly-enclosed and expanded North Shore Shopping Center (now the North Shore Mall). The difference was that, instead of being in a large separate room as it was at Jordan Marsh, the individual displays were split up and spread out throughout the mall area.
And it should also be noted that the Enchanted Village that re-appeared in 1990 was so re-modeled that it bore almost no resemblance to the original displays that Jordan Marsh created in 1958. Which disappointed me, as the original Village had a quaint simplicity to it that I always felt was part of its charm and appeal to kids.
Saying New York does Christmas better than Boston...
is like saying Hawaii does pineapples better than Boston. There's no replicating Rockefeller Center, there's no replicating Fifth Avenue (thanks Copley Place, but Newbury's still a must-walk during the holidays) and the rink at the Frog Pond just isn't Wollman Rink, Rockefeller Center or even Bryant Park.
But I admit I lament the lack of a big, local department store. The tree's up in the Common or Quincy Market, the lights are on at Washington Street and we're going too... the DTX Macy's? The faceless Neimann Marcus or Lord and Taylor at the Pru? Seriously, this is what we have? I realize Philadelphia went through something similar when Strawbridge's and Wanamaker's closed, but at least Wanamaker's classic building and Christmas display was preserved by Macy's. Macy's made the Jordan Marsh look like a 1970's Bamberger's. Now no Filene's? Damn!
But you can't just look at what we don't have. This city has one of the greatest holiday shows in America thanks to the Pops. It has the Revels (yes, we're counting Cambridge because nobody west of 128 or south of Dennis cares to make the distinction), we have the Slutcracker... we have Quincy Market which, mall that it's become, is still the crown jewel of this city's holiday festivities. We have skating on the Frog Pond and the shops at Newbury. We have Harvard Square, the most secular humanist corner of America, all alight with decorations in Cardullo's window and in the surrounding shops.
I moved here several years ago and, at one point, lamented all that this place wasn't around the holidays. Now I see all that it is, and I wouldn't trade it for all the sterile Legacy Place/Natick Collection/Jordan's Furniture suburban commerce snoozefests in the state.
I love that
...you mentioned the Slutcracker, because while I was searching for reviews of that show, I found a few conservative blogs that unironically called it *part* of the "War on Christmas."
Because the original Nutcracker is all about Jesus. Wait...
As the first reply here
As the first reply here mentioned, the real lament of the "war on Christmas" angst isn't about religiosity. After all, neither Ward's editorial nor most of the other "war on Christmas" laments have anything to do with religious observance. There might be a pro forma lament about commericalization but you're not going to see a strident piece from FoxNews admonishing viewers to not buy anything this holiday season and instead spend the holidays in quiet contemplative prayer (after all that might get people wondering what Jesus would think of denying health care to emergency workers so you can give a massive tax cut to millionaires). It's more about a politicized lament for the lost world of their youth. As I noted above though the irony is that a lot of this decline is due to the rise of the very conservative values that FoxNews subscribes to.
Selective Memory
This lost world of their youth would be the same one that had a 90% marginal tax rate at the top of the income scale?
Actually...
"Macy's made the Jordan Marsh look like a 1970's Bamberger's."
Actually, Jordan Marsh made Jordan Marsh look like a 1970's Bamberger's by tearing down the original main store on the corner, plus the adjacent Annex & Bristol Bldg. in 1975. Despite protests by a group of local architects (I recall a plan which preserved the facades of the original buildings being prominently featured in the "Globe" at the time) and loyal customers who cut up their credit cards vowing never to shop there again, Jordan Marsh demolished the buildings. As I recall, there wasn't much pushback from the White administration on this either. The formation of the Boston Landmarks Commission grew directly of of the failure to preserve the Jordan Marsh block. About ten years later, the highly leveraged real estate magnate, Robert Campeau, bought the Allied Stores holding company of which Jordan Marsh was a part. I remember him making a big splash soon after the purchase at a public event at Downtown Crossing where he vowed to restore the Victorian facades and remodel the red brick bunker behind him. A couple of years later, the 80s bubble burst & Campeau filed for bankruptcy.
The Slutcracker
is now a holiday tradition in my one-person, atheist, homosexual household. That, and whatever Christmas show the Gold Dust Oprhans are doing down at the Ramrod Center for the Performing Arts. I'll take those over waiting in line to see Santa for two hours surrounded by screaming, bratty kids or being clocked by various elbows at the checkout lines to buy some cheap, Chinese-made piece of crap that will be forgotten about in two weeks. I'd rather get something nice from a local shop in Provincetown.
Are you serious?
If you are, then you are the reason why the group of people crying war on Christmas exist. The smugness, if you are serious, is more than a little irritating. Hard to not make such protest when you go and act all smug and superior because you avoid having kids and buy from a local shop in Provincetown and how you would gladly take watching the Slutcracker than the Nutcracker.
The lamentations have nothing to do with buying Chinese-made crap or anything. Though I will say that the Slutcracker definitely falls in the area they do lament, it seems that it is design to just be shocking (the Nutcracker isn't about Jesus, but it isn't about being shocking either).
Parody
Do you know what that is?
The Slutcracker is a Parody. It is also very very explicitly for grownups, and you don't have to go see it anyway. Sorry if boobies and the theme of magical self discovery and women not needing men for satisfaction are shocking to you. Given the sell-out crowds during an extended run of this beautiful and magical production both this year and last year, there are clearly many who don't agree with you.
As for him being smug about not having kids, well, I don't see that at all in his post. I have kids, and you know what? My kids used to hate waiting in line for Santa for the many of the reasons he mentioned above - it can be a horrible, draining experience for parents and children alike. So we didn't.
Ho ... ho ... ho.
Speaking of parodies
I suppose it could be worse...
Though it's not so much a parody of something specific than of Christmas songs in general...
The only thing that shocked
The only thing that shocked me about the Slutcracker was the quality of the production. I was just hoping for boobies, and I ended up getting good dancing, pretty costumes, belly laughs, and a story that made me smile.
I'm a married, Christian mother too! Don't worry--I left the kid with her grandparents.
There is a War on Christmas, it's just poorly attributed
It's not secularists killing Christmas. It's not something about the public arena adopting it away from Jesus.
It's greed (and it's not just ruining Christmas in this country). Bill Maher pegs it perfectly in his recent online holiday message.
Look at Ward's example of what "Christmas" is missing in Boston. A place called "Santaland" inside a department store that has a huge display on the street. Christmas carols played on speakers to attract people into a cafe selling drinks. Pretzel and nut street vendors hawking their wares. He spent "hundreds of dollars" to recapture that "Christmas feeling".
Meanwhile, he begrudges First Night of which many parts free, others can be had for a $15 button (I've even seen people get in "button required" events without a button sometimes). Maybe we're just not as greedy here as a city? Maybe we just don't create the giant commercial monstrosity out of holidays like what he's looking for out of New York.
However, don't get me wrong. I think buying lots of gifts and the reduced religious focus of the holiday is great. I'm an atheist and I definitely celebrate Christmas. I can appreciate the holiday and the sentiments without the religion...and as far as I can tell from what he wrote, religion/secularism was a completely unnecessary side-car to what he was actually talking about, which is disappointing...well, maybe less disappointing and more expected from a Fox chatterbox. He wants the hype, here. Well, honestly, Mr. Ward, that's exactly the kind of thing that completely unravels your demand that it be a religious movement. That hype in NYC is from the commercialism of the holiday and the greed, not the religion of it all.
If we're more subdued, maybe it's actually better that way. Maybe it's better for more than just the holiday, too.
A Christian Replies...
Amen.
I'm all for it being a religious celebration. For me, much of it will be. I'm also for it being a fun time for all. Nothing wrong with getting your ho-ho-ho on in whatever way makes you feel good (so long as you don't step on my way, or me on yours.) So, yeah, Kaz got it exactly right, atheistic heathen though he may be. If somebody (Ward) misses certain aspects of commercialism present in Boston during some Christmases past, we can, in many ways, take that as a compliment. And, also, that's why we have New York and Boston as separate entities. You can choose which one you'd like to be in, then... uh... be in it, and leave the other folks to their own fun.
Suldog
http://jimsuldog.blogspot.com
Bonus Irony Points
NYC has been run by a Jewish gentleman from Meffuh for many years.
Who put the Christmas into the Christmas Tree?
I agree with Mr. Ward. Xmas is not the way is should be. There are way too many white lights. All the strands of white lights adorning the Common and houses and Xmas trees are boring. Some say they are tasteful; I think they are pretentious.
I always smile about how all the Xmas traditions and customs are folded together to somehow symbolize the birth of Jesus. In part because the customs have nothing to do with Christianity - was there a Xmas tree in the manger? But also because Xmas has nothing to do with Jesus (who was probably born in the Spring).
It wasn't Jesus (aka Christ) who was born on December 25th but an obscure Persian god. And so, in some kind of spirit of the season,
Happy Mithras-mass to all, and to all a good-night!
There's Something I'll Certainly Agree On
White lights. Feh! The colored lights are far more warm and welcoming, and I'd love to see The Common that way again.
Suldog
http://jimsuldog.blogspot.com
North Michigan Avenue in Chicago....
...has long featured a preponderance of white lights -- and it always looked festive and cheery. Its just you need _lots_ of them.
Maybe newer while lights lack some of the golden gleam of older ones, however.
I love wishing my Jewish and
I love wishing my Jewish and Muslim friends a Merry Christmas!
Sometimes . . .
. . . when I hear "Merry Christmas" out of someone I don't know these days- it kinda weirds me out a bit. And I'm Catholic. Because I don't know the motivation. Is it an honest "Merry Christmas" or is it some A-Hole who watches Bill O'Reilly and who thinks there is some great cultural assault under foot against him and he is making a pointed political statement in his "Merry Christmas"?
I grew up in a town with a a fair sized amount of people who didn't celebrate Christmas- mostly Jewish people. And I was taught that you say "Happy Holidays" in mixed company out of respect and consideration for others. Never bothered me- didn't think I was being "oppressed" and I still say it when I think it is merited.
meh! I think you try to take
meh! I think you try to take it in the spirit it which it's offered (though I did love Jack and Avery's Christmas card on 30 Rock--"Happy Holidays...is what terrorists say. Merry Christmas!" I had a bus driver the other day who was greeting everyone with a booming "Merry Christmas!" but I don't think he was an O'Reilly-ite, just a jolly kind of guy. I always remember watching my (Armenian Orthodox) grandfather on the phone in his shop wishing a friend or customer a happy Rosh Hoshanah and being kind of impressed with both the gesture AND that he knew that it was Rosh Hoshanah!
It's definitely . . .
. . . a situational thing with me. I use both. It's sad that I even suspect people of such shallow motives in saying "Merry Christmas" but that is where we are now- there is now a "war on Christmas" according to the squawk box on every wall in this country and now I think half the "Merry Christmas's" I get are from politicized a-holes making a "statement" in support of their side in their idiotic "war".
From a historical perspective . . .
. . . the celebration of Christmas in Boston was actually a reaction against holier than thou Puritans who forbade the celebration of Christmas. And even when Christmas was more or less tolerated by the Puritans it was still a holiday that was celebrated low key and in private.
Growing up in the area I remember Thanksgiving as never being overshadowed by Christmas. Now- it is completely overwhelmed by that day as Christmas commercialism goes into effect after Halloween now.
Christmas is a commercial obligation now. It means I have to spend money. And I frankly have no idea what these whackos are complaining about - a "war on Christmas"? Talk about making up a problem that literally is the opposite of reality . . .
I think he is talking about
I think he is talking about more of the energy and excitement of Christmas. The hype. The liveliness of people scurrying around with enchanting displays. Well, to be fair, this is way before my time. Though there was some old photos on this site (or maybe Archboston) of the old Boston and its Christmas. There's definitely an energy that is just not here.
The music may play earlier. The need to buy gifts have become obligatory. But it doesn't mean Christmas is spreading. At least not the kind that existed in the 70's and earlier.
I agree with that . . .
. . . the energy and excitement are not there for me these days- but I think it basically has to do with the commercialization of it. Christmas is everywhere and nowhere these days. There are more wreaths- more trees- more decorations- more houses lighted up with more dreckish lights than ever before- at least in my memory- and yet- the feeling is gone. That feeling of anticipation . . . gone. I'm just glad when it is over these days.
When they lit the tree on the
When they lit the tree on the Common there was a huge crowd - HUGE. It was a CHRISTMAS tree - the Rockettes were there from the CHRISTMAS Spectacular - and SANTA CLAUS showed up! It was a CITY SPONSORED event! So don't tell me it's because of that 'political correctness' Bill O' Reilly loves to trot out to get ratings. The real problem is a lack of investment in Downtown Crossing -everybody loves to moan about how much better it was in the old days, with the Combat Zone right next door - sure it was! It's economics - it's about the lack of local investment, and outsiders who have no vested interest in how Boston does as a city, taking over and destroying those good things, and keeping people who had fond memories of the area, from coming back and trying to make it better. It's just easier to say, "Oh, the place has gone downhill, so I'll never go there again' - THAT'S part of the problem. Macy's brought down Jordan Marsh, and eventually Filene's, the New York Times took over the Globe, and Rockettes booted the Nutcracker out of the Wang Center - New York crooks - not PC nuts, are destroying the Christmas memories at DTX. Again I ask - is it because New York is less PC than Mass or is it about $? Think! Look at all the people saying they're going to go to New York for Christmas - New Yorkers who own and shut down Boston properties downtown are driving Boston money to NYC! Just ask Mr. Roth at Vornado!
When they lit the tree on the
When they lit the tree on the Common there was a huge crowd - HUGE. It was a CHRISTMAS tree - the Rockettes were there from the CHRISTMAS Spectacular - and SANTA CLAUS showed up! It was a CITY SPONSORED event! So don't tell me it's because of that 'political correctness' Bill O' Reilly loves to trot out to get ratings. The real problem is a lack of investment in Downtown Crossing -everybody loves to moan about how much better it was in the old days, with the Combat Zone right next door - sure it was! It's economics - it's about the lack of local investment, and outsiders who have no vested interest in how Boston does as a city, taking over and destroying those good things, and keeping people who had fond memories of the area, from coming back and trying to make it better. It's just easier to say, "Oh, the place has gone downhill, so I'll never go there again' - THAT'S part of the problem. Macy's brought down Jordan Marsh, and eventually Filene's, the New York Times took over the Globe, and Rockettes booted the Nutcracker out of the Wang Center - New York crooks - not PC nuts, are destroying the Christmas memories at DTX. Again I ask - is it because New York is less PC than Mass or is it about $? Think! Look at all the people saying they're going to go to New York for Christmas - New Yorkers who own and shut down Boston properties downtown are driving Boston money to NYC! Just ask Mr. Roth at Vornado!
When they lit the tree on the
When they lit the tree on the Common there was a huge crowd - HUGE. It was a CHRISTMAS tree - the Rockettes were there from the CHRISTMAS Spectacular - and SANTA CLAUS showed up! It was a CITY SPONSORED event! So don't tell me it's because of that 'political correctness' Bill O' Reilly loves to trot out to get ratings. The real problem is a lack of investment in Downtown Crossing -everybody loves to moan about how much better it was in the old days, with the Combat Zone right next door - sure it was! It's economics - it's about the lack of local investment, and outsiders who have no vested interest in how Boston does as a city, taking over and destroying those good things, and keeping people who had fond memories of the area, from coming back and trying to make it better. It's just easier to say, "Oh, the place has gone downhill, so I'll never go there again' - THAT'S part of the problem. Macy's brought down Jordan Marsh, and eventually Filene's, the New York Times took over the Globe, and Rockettes booted the Nutcracker out of the Wang Center - New York crooks - not PC nuts, are destroying the Christmas memories at DTX. Again I ask - is it because New York is less PC than Mass or is it about $? Think! Look at all the people saying they're going to go to New York for Christmas - New Yorkers who own and shut down Boston properties downtown are driving Boston money to NYC! Just ask Mr. Roth at Vornado!
Please forgive the three wise
Please forgive the three wise posts.
First Night and the War on Christmas
Please God, let Bob keep talking about First Night, even in this ridiculous context. LOVE the publicity this time of year.
First Night was founded in 1976, and I think the War on Christmas was declared much later. And an earlier poster is correct, the Enchanted Village was an "official" First Night event for a couple of years there - until the City sold it to Jordan's. Also, just so you know, there are a fair amount of churches that participate in First Night, and it's not a 100% secular event. Also, it's New Year's, not Christmas.
Merry Christmas everyone!
Joyce
The war against the "war on
The war against the "war on X-mas" is just the modern version of the old pogroms they used to have in Europe when they accused Jews of drinking Christian blood, and the mobs went around killing innocent Jewish families.
I suppose I should be grateful it's just words now.
Yeah, it's exactly like that
except instead of burning houses, raping women and slaughtering children in front of their parents, people are just turning off Fox News and wishing each other Happy Holidays. But yeah, I see the similarity.
I say
I say we march over right now with pitchforks and torches to where the Christians live and serenade them with secular carols! Are you with me?
Holidayrage
How come we can't get this worked up over Arbor Day??
Spread the love people!
Another interesting bit
I plugged "Merry Christmas" and "Happy Holidays" into Google's new Ngrams program. Turns out that, contrary to Fox News hyperventilations, "Merry Christmas" is still vastly more popular than "Happy Holidays". And far from an increasing secularization what we see is Merry Christmas hitting a modern nadir in the 60s and 70s and then steadily increasing in usage since. Interestingly, "Happy Holidays" had its peak use in the late 50s, a time which conservatives usually depict as the high point of American values.
http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/graph?content=Merry+C...