Arrest. Photo by Jtpouliot. Copyright Jtpouliot.
Boston Police moved into the new encampment on the Greenway around 1:20 a.m., giving protesters five minutes to retreat back to the original encampment closer to South Station or get arrested. They didn't move, and the police, who had been massing around the encampment since the previous evening, kept their word. Jtpouliot was there to record the arrests. Scott Eisen also took photos. An arrest photo. Open Media Boston posted photos as well.
Police Commissioner Ed Davis says anarchists, not a harrumphing mayor, forced his hand today (Ed. historical note: Anarchists were originally blamed for the Great Molasses Disaster as well; as we now know, the tank exploded due to corporate greed - an executive ignored warnings the tank was leaking).
Mayor Menino told WBUR that "enough's enough," and the protesters had stopped being respectful. "There's a lot of other folks living in Boston" and they have rights too, he said, adding he actually agrees with the protesters on many of their issues related to the economy.
Open Media Boston reports more than 100 arrests. The Suffolk County District Attorney's office, however, reports that so far only 45 people have been scheduled for arraignment in Boston Municipal Court over the next three days - including one protester arrested at an earlier demonstration at the Charlestown Bridge.
Removing tents, Boston style. Photo by Open Media Boston. Creative Commons license.
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Comments
Ed Davis is a liar. He's
By theworldiswatching
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 6:23am
Ed Davis is a liar. He's created this "anarchist takeover" to try to sway the media. Notice he doesn't mention the veterans beaten up or the medics trying to help the hurt being arrested. When we said the world was watching, we weren't lying, did you think we were? Davis, your time is done. We don't respect or believe you anymore, sorry. Menino, don't expect another re-election.
You guys aren't protecting the people.
Beatings?
By adamg
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 7:47am
Granted, it's still early, but I've yet to see any photos or video showing beatings (protesters face down on the ground, yes, but that's not the same). Am I just not looking in the right places?
Not a beating, but a shoving
By adamg
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 8:10am
At about 15 seconds: Guy sort of rushes up to police with a large flag and one cop pushes him back:
go home
By anon
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 8:42am
The greenway website states the park closes at 11pm. If you want to congregate you need a permit. There is a link on the website to get one. How could they make it any easier? They claim Menino said they didn't need a permit? I don't believe it. Get one anyway to be on the safe side. Since when do politicians tell the truth? Cover all your bases. The cops warned them to move somewhere else and they did not. I have no sympathy for them.
http://www.rosekennedygreenwa
By Brandy
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 9:39am
http://www.rosekennedygreenway.org/files/6513/1793...
No, Organized events
By anon²
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 9:41am
Need permits.
The right of the people to free assembly shall not be infringed upon. The park is also private property and they had the blessing of the people in charge of it. What rights do the police have to remove them from the property?
Either way, this just became much more of a headache for Menino and the police. It amuses me that, in the end, they couldn't show restraint. Their power must be projected, or they, lose it or something.
This is only going to fuel on the 99%'ers.
And hopefully it's the start primary against Mumbles. Listening to him on the news yesterday was shameful.
Wrong a number of accounts
By anon
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 10:49am
1) "No, Organized Events Need Permits," as written, contradicts your sentiment. I believe you meant to say, "No organized events need permits." That comma means something.
2) The park is *not* private property:
3) The right to assembly afforded by the Constitution does not extend the right to assemble wherever the hell you'd like to do it. Menino, as much as I don't like his politics, was well within his power to remove protesters from an area. And good for him for preserving a *public* investment in green land.
The real problem here is the erosion of personal responsibility. One-hundred percent of the "99%'ers" seem to believe that it is the responsibility of our society and economy to ensure their future well-being. I've heard repeated arguments from this group about "I have education debt I can't pay off" or "I can't find a job."
Who forced you to take on this debt? Why not market yourself better in order to find a job? What exactly are you looking for the government/corporations to do for you?
Try to recall your history lessons. Did the Irish or Italian immigrants (or any other nationality for that matter) of the early 1900's complain about this nonsense? Of course not - they worked hard to make something of themselves and something of this country. This concept even extends into today. How many recent immigrants do you see at these Occupy events? Almost none. Why? Because they are either looking for a job, or working that job, thankful to be here.
So, if you are protesting poor ethical decisions by the top brass in corporate America, then perhaps I support that. I'm not sure what protesting will do about it, but go crazy (and not in a way that is a nuisance towards others). However, approaching the problems of this economy with a sense of entitlement just undermines any argument you ever had and, frankly, makes you look stupid.
One-hundred percent of the
By anon²
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 11:52am
Actually:
The thing is regulation protecting the middle class have been destroyed, while legislation giving huge write offs to special interests, corporations, and businesses partners have been written to give away taxpayer money.
Apparently wanted a meritocracy and capitalism back is now akin to wanting a handout? No one wants a handout, they want a level playing field.
I find it amusing that your hard working immigrant story makes no reference to assembly, or even the thing that gave them the political power to take concessions from the powers at be at the time; Unions.
Anyways, I've seen it. Corporation hiring "interns" and giving them full desks. Corporations hiring "temps" and getting away with not paying them a full wage and benefits because of a loophole. Corporations asking for a 4 year degree or masters degree, on top of 5 years experience for a entry level job; while the boomers doing the hiring have been working in the same few positions with their high school degrees.
To even have a slim chance, we're forced to shell out tens to hundreds of thousand of dollars in debt to get a education; then told to work for free to try to scrape by on $30,000 in a city where the average rent of a 2-3 bedroom (room mate) place is $700-800 a month (if you can find a "deal").
This isn't the little snowflakes complaining. Far from it. It's the rest of us trying to make a honest living; and increasingly seeing the 1% stack up a higher and higher wall for us to climb over, while they line their pockets with taxpayer and shareholder money.
So you're arguing my points now?
By anon
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 1:45pm
So then why are they protesting Bank of America? That is like beating up your younger brother because your mother gave him an undeserved allowance.
If you want capitalism, lets do what we should have done. No bailouts. Let the banks fail - others will pick up where they left off. *That* is capitalism, and, frankly, I'm all for it. But no, we had to bail out the banks because the banks *AND* many of their customers made very poor financial decisions. It does not take a degree to figure out that paying no interest on a mortgage makes poor financial sense. Is this this "merit" we should be rewarding?
I have no qualms with assembling - whether in protest or in a union. That is a Constitutional right. I do have a problem with protesters that destroy property, cause a public nuisance, and make unsafe conditions. This *is* what happened, so, yes, I have a problem with it.
Didnt you just say you wanted a meritocracy? Interns are working a job because they have expressed interest/are working towards a position in that field. That is called merit. Temps are working a job for a number of reasons - typically not because they love being an office admin or someone that does data entry. More than not, they have no interest in the job other than the fact that it pays the bills. So, these people should now be rewarded with benefits? Again, this goes back to meritocracy. As for unfair wages, there ARE regulations regarding this that DO protect the middle class - check out the office of the attorney general.
No one forces you to do anything. Right now I have 2 jobs. My part-time job I work 2 days a week, it requires NO education, and I will likely pull in 20K this year doing that alone. So dont tell me there are no opportunities out there/that you need to "work for free." Nonsense. As for housing, if you dont want to pay $700/mo (again this is capitalism at work) then dont live in the city. The suburbs are much more affordable for a reason (hint: capitalism).
Yes, it precisely is the little snowflakes complaining. The rest of us who ARE working to earn an honest living are doing just that: WORKING!
When the Occupy movement gets their demands straight then maybe we can take them more seriously. Until then, I hope the police continue to protect the public's investment in our infrastructure.
Oh boy.
By whyaduck
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 3:09pm
Let see, what juicy tidbit of yours to reply to, oh, how about:
"No one forces you to do anything. Right now I have 2 jobs. My part-time job I work 2 days a week, it requires NO education, and I will likely pull in 20K this year doing that alone. So dont tell me there are no opportunities out there/that you need to "work for free." Nonsense. As for housing, if you don't want to pay $700/mo (again this is capitalism at work) then don't live in the city. The suburbs are much more affordable for a reason (hint: capitalism)."
Could you please let us know what type of job you do that requires NO education, where you work only two days a week that pays you 20K a year and whether they are hiring nor not?
$700 per month to live in the city? WTF? What year are you living in? I paid $650 for a small, one room studio with a hall bathroom on the Boston/Brookline line in the mid 1980s! And living in the burbs, um, don't know where the heck you live to get that cheap of a rent but I am about 15 miles south of Boston and pay $900 bucks per month for a small, one bedroom on a busy street. And most one bedroom apartments in my area are a minimum of $1,500 per month.
You should be an inspirational speaker. I am sure the approx. 15 million unemployed folks (never mind those that have just dropped out of the system) would love to hear how they can get a job if they just tried harder.
you have
By anon²
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 3:42pm
No grasp of economics or capitalism, do you?
There is no universe imaginable where letting the banks fail would have produced unicorns and butterflies. A shock to the economy of that magnitude would have brought great depression levels of hurt on the American people, and the world economy. That is if not more, since we didn't have nearly as many banks as we did back then, we had 5-6 behemoths before the downturn.
Recessions and depressions tend to feed off themselves. They don't correct naturally, or rationally. Like a rock rolling down a hill, either something stops it, or it'll continue until it hits bottom. Panic is a strange thing.
The arguments from OWS are that no one was held accountable for the bailouts. The same people are making the same trades. the same CEO's and BOD's are in power. Corporate profits are their highest ever this year. Bonus too. Not one person was arrested for the kind of fraud and ponzi scheme accounting that would have a normal person locked away for life Nor is there any push to reinstate sound financial practices, or smartly break up the too big to fail banks into smaller, more manageable, and more risk adverse businesses.
That's the rub. And they are right.
But I see it's just a issue of people not being bootstrappy enough, or poor people buying things they should have left to the rich. I bet it's their fault they're not rich too, since after all, a man makes his wealth all by his own sweat.
Here's a challenge. Throw away mommy and daddies money, don't use your prior education or your networked connections, and try to start a life from scratch. Right now, the likelihood of you making it is less than 1%. The game has been rigged, and people want the playing field to be fair. That's all.
to: anon² (not verified) - 10/11/11 - 11:52 am #1
By anon
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 2:58pm
Welcome to reality, buddy. Do you think that 20-30 years ago everyone who graduated from college did so debt-free and was able to jump into a high-paying job and live in a trendy part of Boston? Wrong. Some were fortunate enough to have entered the right field at the right time and landed fantastic jobs. Others weren't so fortunate. That's the way life goes. Boston is a small expensive city. Don't expect to be able to live in a trendy neighborhood just because you graduated from BU and think you therefore deserve it. A lot of people are scraping by to live here and elsewhere in this economy.
Not listening
By anon²
Wed, 10/12/2011 - 11:22am
This isn't about handouts. And anyone thinking college debt should be forgiven is a little loony. I don't want that. I want a fair chance and level playing field where I can succeed or fail depending on my own drive. People are realizing what once was the case is all but a pipe dream now.
This fight is about undue Corp influence on our politics and vice versa. It's about the playing field being stacked against citizens and small business, in the favor of the rich and powerful.
Maybe I can put it in simpler terms for the GOP in the crowd. Why are small businesses strapped with a effective tax rate of 25% plus healthcare costs; while GE, BOA, Lockheed Martin, & Exxon's effective rates are 0 (and in many circumstances, they're actually negative, taking taxpayer money)?
Part of it is the failure of the free market, the other is the failure of our government. We can't pin one or the other, like the ideologies try to; because it's both.
The free market leads to this, at the same time government getting it's hands in things it should does too. It's the same side of a coin.
BUT, the rightful role of government is protecting it's citizens. The rightful role of business is to create wealth for the citizens of the country.
Right now we're at a point where government is serving only the corporations, and the corporations are only creating wealth for the 1% and the government officials they paid off.
If the Teabaggers weren't so herp-derp about government = evil, taxes = evil, and so easily mislead, they'd realize there's quite a big of overlap and room for working together.
But they need a enemy, their fanaticism demands it.
And so everything is put in a little box, and we're left to fight with each other while the 1% sip champagne and laugh.
This is a flawless
By jeveuxsavoir
Thu, 10/13/2011 - 12:32am
This is a flawless comment.
(Personally, I would absolutely *love* for my student loan debt, now into six figures for two degrees, to be forgiven. But I know it's not going to happen.)
Wrong on Several Counts
By Flyover Fig
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 12:50pm
1) You said:
Actually, they did, for good reason. That's when the modern American labor movement took flight, so much so that, in 1920, labor luminary Eugene V. Debs tallied nearly a million votes as the candidate for the Socialists. There were massive strikes and demonstrations (where the immigrant groups you've mentioned were very well represented) around just the sort of issues that are motivating the Occupy movement. I'm sorry if that doesn't fit the arc of history you've imagined, but it's all quite well documented. If anybody needs a history lesson, it's not the occupiers - they're following a well-established, very American tradition. It's just the case that it's a tradition you don't acknowledge, though you've almost certainly enjoyed the benefits its bestowed on all working Americans, from the 40-hour work week to workplace safety regulations and on and on.
2) The demonstrators aren't demonstrating because they believe the government owes them handouts as you've suggested here. They're organizing against undue corporate influence on our political system, from endless wars advocated by extractive industries and bloated defense contractors to bailed-out Wall Street banks that continue to hand out massive bonuses while their fellow citizens (the ones who bailed them out after fat-cat bankers put us all in a terrible jam) watch their prospects grow ever dimmer. It's odd that these people, enduring discomfort in the cold and rain for what they believe in (a thankless job) are accused of a sense of entitlement while Wall Street continues its wanton speculation and unbridled manipulation of our political system and civic institutions with the one hand and holds out the other for hundreds of billions in bail-outs. How does that even begin to make sense?
Not True
By anon
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 1:13pm
I would also ask you to recall your history lessons, since your memory is clearly failing. They worked hard but they also protested their sweatshop working conditions by joining labor unions, who decreased the duration of the work week and increased wages.
Read the link above
By Stevil
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 11:22am
The Conservancy's letter says that they will follow the lead of the BPD when it comes to public safety.
Personally I think they've been more than restrained and the group should have a) gotten a permit and b) should be removed each evening at 11 pm and not allowed back until 7 am - the operating hours of the park.
And I'm one of the "99%" and like most of us for all I care these punks can go jump in the harbor. Want a decent job - they are hiring by the thousands in North Dakota. The BPD is having trouble getting recruits. Nurses are in short supply throughout the country - we are literally importing them from the Philippines and other countries - all these jobs pay quite well - mid level career with OT/ detail etc you are looking at about 6 figures. According to CNBC there are 3.2 million unfilled jobs in the country - but there's a mismatch of skills and geography. Get some training and move if you have to.
And this'll make them happy - apparently Bloomberg says there will be 10,000 fewer Wall Street jobs in NY next year. Wonder who's gonna pay for all the teachers and the $2 million and counting public safety bill the Occupados are racking up in NY.
Boo hoo - I played the game and didn't get a trophy. In the real world only winners get the trophies kids. Take some advice from Knute Rockne - stop yer whining and get out there and play like winners. That is - stop acting like the 2011 Red Sox.
However
By Kaz
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 2:32pm
However, they weren't removed from the second camp due to public safety issues. They were removed because they were standing on fresh grass.
Protecting public property
By Stevil
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 3:19pm
That's part of public safety too. According to one report they just dumped $150k of work into that area - we don't need a second mudpit like the one they are creating where they are.
Good to know
By Kaz
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 3:33pm
It's good to know your price of freedom is $150,000 in grass seed.
How much do you think the
By J
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 4:55pm
How much do you think the massive police operation cost?
Im going to go and guess more than $150,000.
Kind of reminds me of another
By anon
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 12:26pm
Kind of reminds me of another time when an older man charged at someone younger and in better shape and got thrown to the ground. Pedro-Zimmer circa 2003?. It seems to me like the fault lies with the man, holding a flag, running at the police officers. What would we have them do?
The arrests begin
By adamg
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 8:24am
That's police Supt. William Evans giving protesters one last warning. At around 1:50, you can see one protester forced to the ground and another one either pulled to the ground or falling as he's being pulled:
good riddance. It's only a
By slowman4130
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 6:58am
good riddance. It's only a shame that daddy will be bailing them all out today.
Anyone else find it highly ironic that the "poor oppressed 99%" were livestreaming from a room in the cushy Intercontinental Hotel?
Yeah, it's horrible when
By Dan Seitz
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 7:28am
Yeah, it's horrible when people exercise their right to peaceably assemble and protest what they believe to be unfair. They should be beaten for disagreeing with you.
If all of you are really that unhappy run for office
By anon
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 8:36am
There are elections held for many positions.
Run for office?
By anon
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 12:26pm
The US Senate spent three days last week engaging in procedural manouvers over a Chinese currency bill. There was no discussion of the merits of the bill - just two sides trying to undermine eachother with esoteric rules.
So when you say "run for office" if you want change is this what you mean? Office holders are no longer able to assert any real power in the legislature - yet democracy continues on the streets and in the parks.
Vote
By anon²
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 12:56pm
Only 37% of eligible voters voted in 2010, and look at the congress we got. Arguable one of the worst in history.
Low turnout means the worst of the worst find it very easy to put together small constituencies and get voted in.
Voting matters. People need to learn it's a 2 year thing, not every 4 years. We also need to strive to get more voices into the pool, and more people registered. You can't be a narrow focused, filibustering fool when you have to answer to a bunch of different constituencies that voted you in. You have to be conservatively moderate in your governance.
It's also reason #1 why the teahadists and corporatists are trying desperately to undermined easy, fair, and fast voting around the nation. Shrinking the voter pool is very, very good to their prospects.
Not True
By Suldog
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 1:20pm
Officeholders can assert as much power as they have at their disposal. Whether they choose to do so is up to them.
Just because some current officeholders are not doing what you might wish, that does not mean that somebody else will not be effective. Electing somebody who feels as you do is still the most effective lawful way to bring about change in a democratic republic.
Suldog
http://jimsuldog.blogspot.com
While we wait...
By Kaz
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 2:34pm
While we wait for 5 more years to go by for those that were just inducted to the Senate in 2010, the other lawful means of bringing about change in a democratic republic is to let your representative know that they aren't representing you accurately any more. When letters and phone calls go ignored, the next best option left to the people is outward demonstration.
Elected office?
By Dan Seitz
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 12:54pm
Seriously? There's an elected official that make you develop a more nuanced and intelligent position that doesn't agree with anybody, but factors in the objects and positions of others and addresses those in a sane, polite and intelligent manner, instead of mindlessly complaining and attempting to dismiss those who disagree with you?
Who the hell is this guy and what's his job?
Finally!
By anon
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 7:02am
It was nice for the city to let the little boys and girls have a camp out on the city's dime for so long, but the fun had to end.
For the homeless and drunk - my heart goes out to you.
To the aged and unemployed - you're better off going somewhere warmer or learning HTML to get a job.
To the college kids - you should be ashamed. If you are worried about jobs after college, don't study some candy ass liberal arts degtee. Also arrests don't look so good.
For the rest of you hipsters, hard to take the 'we are the 99%' seriously when you are tweeting from your 2000$ macbook.
Wow-
By Chris Dowd
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 8:43am
"To the aged and unemployed - you're better off going somewhere warmer or learning HTML to get a job."
Just Wow.
This is
By anon²
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 9:42am
what the GOP really believes.
actually, there is a glut of
By anon
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 12:43pm
actually, there is a glut of just such as plumber, electrition, welder, etc. In all seriousness, why can't people train for these jobs we desperately need people to do?
AMEN!
By anon
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 10:30am
Finally somebody brought it up!
We are 99% is just run by bunch of hipster with some hapless hangalongs.
You want change? There is a process for that - VOTE!!! When voter participation is over 75% - complain then.
Effin losers.
Tommy "Il Duce" can't control himself from controlling others
By deselby
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 7:49am
It's a shame that Boston is the first city to crackdown on and clear out the protesters. What would Sam Adams say?
Tommy could not control himself from exerting authority, because we all know that nothing happens in Boston without Tommy's personal permission. Everything is personal with Tommy.
What were they arrested for? "Unlawful assembly?" Right, and the taxpayers of Boston will be paying legal fees and damages for the civil rights violations.
Please spare me the "taking up public space" argument - that end of the expanse of the Greenway is empty except for the occasional stroller.
What they should have done
By Michael
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 8:32am
If the protesters had circled the Filene's Hole in Downtown Crossing, would they have been left alone there? The city doesn't seem to care about anything that happens over there...
What about #occupymattapan or #occupydorchestor ?
By anon
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 10:26am
I don't seen anyone showing up there to protest the welfare families, the drugs being sold on street corners, etc.
Also, didn't I see some of those protestors at the Whole Foods meeting in JP a couple months back?
It is important to stand up for your rights for organic produce in a latin area, and something having to do with banks.
First city to crack down?
By anon
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 8:34am
Did you not read about the hundreds of arrests in NYC?
Bloomberg
By anon²
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 9:45am
reprimanded the police, and it looks like all charges are going to be dropped (probably because of the headache it's going to cause).
The same will happen here, but it's a very different story with our "Mayor".
Kudos tp AdamG
By East Cambridge
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 7:48am
For working a reference to the Great Molasses Disaster into this contemporary story!
And relevant, even!
By adamg
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 8:46am
As Puleo writes in "Dark Tide," the tank basically burst because of corporate greed: An executive at the company that owned the tank ignored some rather explicit warnings from an engineer that it was at risk of collapsing - to the point of ordering the tank painted a brownish red to hide the molasses leaking out if it rather than spend money to fix the tank. When the thing did burst, they first tried to pin the blame on North End anarchists.
side note . . .
By Chris Dowd
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 8:56am
. . . one day this past summer- while lounging in a chair in front of the Starbucks on Commercial Street- I had a good long chat with some old timers from the North End- and I asked them if a story I heard about that disaster were true- that people who lived in the North End could smell molasses on hot summer days as late as the 1950's. The consensus was "No"- that wasn't true- there was no lingering molasses odor that lasted decades as I had heard since I was a kid.
Shameless plug for one of my favorites
By East Cambridge
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 10:39am
Puleo's book is cool. For a fictional treatment of the era, Dennis Lehane's "The Given Day" works in the Boston Police strike and the Spanish Influenza along with the Molasses disaster. And enough real Anarchists to cause Commisioner Davis to bring back the mounted police.
How much time do you give these people?
By Pete Nice
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 7:57am
Can I set up a tent in the Boston Common as a sign of protest against how the City treats their homeless? What if I set up the tent at Millineum Park? What if the Westboro Baptist Church wanted to set up camp and protest on the Greenway? How long do you let them stay there?
It should be obvious that there comes a point where a line must be drawn for any type of protest.
It's in the Constitution
By alkali
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 8:31am
It's in the First Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
And in Article XIX of the Massachusetts Constitution: "The people have a right, in an orderly and peaceable manner, to assemble to consult upon the common good; give instructions to their representatives, and to request of the legislative body, by the way of addresses, petitions, or remonstrances, redress of the wrongs done them, and of the grievances they suffer."
There's no "well, we're tired of listening to you" limitation on that right.
What do you consider peaceful?
By anon
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 8:41am
Is blocking roads when people are trying to get home peaceful? How about all of the road rage you create? Or what about the people trying to get home to see sick loved ones? Perhaps you didn't hear about the woman who delivered a baby on Rte. 93 yesterday?
What is a peaceful protest?
Funny you mention that highway delivery
By Kaz
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 9:23am
Perhaps in your rush to complain about the protest you missed the fact that it was CORPORATE GREED that caused that woman to have her kid born on the side of the highway....the highway that was shut down by officials so a MOVIE STUDIO could film on the Zakim! It had nothing to do with the protests and everything to do with the ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY blocking the highway so it could film a movie.
Right...
By anon
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 10:03am
And 93 is the only way into the city? Perhaps you need a map. Was it not a large number of protestors who caused the bridge between Charlestown and the North End to be shut down? Perhaps you didn't see the enormous group of protestors blocking the entire road near Bank of America at Dewey Square?
The movie filming gave advanced notice of its closing down roads? The protestors do not and simply take up residence wherever they feel entitled to do so.
The movie makers were making
By anon
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 11:04am
The movie makers were making a movie... that's what they do. To call that corporate greed makes no more sense than saying that a food truck serving food (because that's what restaurants after all do) is corporate greed. And as far as "blocking" the roadway... they must have got DOT OK for that poor decision.
Uh...proving my point
By Kaz
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 2:41pm
They were making a movie here in MA (instead of anywhere else) because they were able to lobby the state to put in insanely stupid tax breaks for them to locate their filming here. The morons at the State House thought "job creation". Instead the film industry just pays themselves and the stars more to shoot here. The State House heard tales of a "Hollywood East" that would be located on an old manufacturing plant...Hollywood decided it would just take the tax breaks and work out of their trucks like a location shoot. They only chose to be here, block our roads, and disrupt our lives because our state representatives were stupid enough to get bought off by MPAA/Hollywood lobbyists into the belief that they'd start a whole new industry here. They were wrong.
That's a prime example of corporate greed meets politics in today's world, my friend. Special tax breaks that only the already-wealthy can take advantage off to the detriment of the other 99% of us.
Yea but thats the 11th grade history class version and example
By Pete Nice
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 8:44am
There are lots of limitations on our Constitutional rights. From not yelling 'fire' in a crowed theatre, to parade permits, to the people deciding what defines the words "orderly", "assemble", "probable cause", and all sorts of other words.
But let me ask you. If these people wanted to keep their tents on the greenway for 5 years you would be ok with that? What if I wanted to protest something?
Your questions are irrelevant
By alkali
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 9:01am
These people have been peaceably assembling on the Greenway for a couple of weeks. Whatever the theoretical limitations on the right to assembly might be, they aren't implicated here. People either have the right to assemble or they don't.
It isn't as simple as you want to make it.
By Pete Nice
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 9:26am
And my questions aren't irrelevant. Is setting up tents and sleeping on public property a form of protest? Could you do it on the sidewalk? The Street? In front of your driveway?
There are lots of theretical limitations on the right to protest here. That is why this is happening now. There are some abortion clinics that have had protesters every day for the past 15 years in front of them and the police have never moved them along.
Why do you think they aren't letting the Greenway people do the same?
Easy
By anon²
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 9:53am
Because it's a large group, and large groups are BAD NEWS for politicians and police.
Pete, you might have a point while they're marching down a street, or blocking the Washington street bridge. Sitting in a park, with the parks owners blessing isn't exactly a reason to crack sculls because you need to have a show of force to put these dirty hippies in their place.
Now the taxpayers are on the hook, and the real face of the BPD and mayor are on display.
How many people were shot, murdered, or assaulted last night in the city while the mayor and his security force were focused on this non-issue?
It's becoming abundantly clear who's side Mayor Menino is on. And it ain't the majority of the residents of Boston. It's the 1%'ers up in their ivory towers mad that they'd be forced to even look at those horrible wretches below.
They aren't bad news for police though.
By Pete Nice
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 10:07am
The police don't decide whether to move them off or not. If the Mayor decides to let them stay, the police look good, especially if no crimes are happening. If the mayor (or insert person who makes this decision here) decides they want them moved, then the police have to move them.
But Menino could have done this on day 1, day 7, or day 14. My question continues to be: How long is enough time to let protesters stay on public property?
And sure if the "park owners" want people to camp out on their property, then I guess the people have the right to camp out on their property.
Ask the opposite question
By Kaz
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 10:20am
Why not ask the opposite question: How short is too short to have any meaningful protest?
What makes Day 11 of a peaceable assembly on public (as in, they are part of the public too) land any worse than Day 10, Day 1, or Hour 1?
I don't think you can put a number on it from a legal standpoint
By Pete Nice
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 10:29am
because if you say 2 weeks, who is going to stop the next group that wants their 2 week protest on public property? And setting a time limit kind of defeats the right to protest.
But wouldn't you say at some point these public protests infringe on the rights of the other public people that might want to enjoy the park?
I'm not saying I have the right answer here, but don't you admit that at some point the protest has to end? Come up with a different form of protest. Spread it out to different points of the city. Get creative, but recoginze the issue of protesting too long in a public space takes away the rights of other public citizens to use that property.
But yea, I think this protest kind of jumped the shark. 2 Weeks seemed ok for this one.
Part of the public use
By Kaz
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 10:38am
If I want to go to a public park and need space to play volleyball, then the next guy along wants to throw a football through my court...what do we do then? Someone was there first to use the space. Well-used parks are taken as first-come, first-served all the time.
Besides, this crackdown had nothing to do with "other people wanting to use the space". It's not like someone was begging OccupyBoston to move out of the way so they could read a book on the grass at 3 AM.
The protest has to end when it accomplishes a change to whatever it is protesting against. Otherwise, what's the use of the protest? "Hey, we're mad as hell and we're not going to take it anymore...until Tuesday." "The people, united, will never be defeated...but we do go home at night to sleep, see you tomorrow at 9 AM!" Yeah, see how often that effects any real change.
I think you hit the nail on the head.
By Pete Nice
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 10:56am
This is where common sense takes over. Pickup basketball games would be a better example though. When you go to a public court and there is a pickup game going on, there are unwritten rules that dictate who gets to keep playing or not. Usually the winner gets to stay on, and people that show up get to call the "next game" and set up their team against the winner of the game. Your volleyball example in this case would make sense if the volleyball players camped out and played volleyball 24/7 when other people might want to either play volleyball or do other things in the park.
Protests don't have rules like this, and probably shoudn't, but I think in theory there is going to be a point where a decision has to be made about how long people can stay there.
and when
By anon²
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 10:28am
Did the police become the strongmen of the Mayor's office?
As far as I know the mayor can request the police to remove them, but they have no obligation to follow requests that are unlawful; which this seems it was.
I'm not sure if it was unlawful or not.
By Pete Nice
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 11:17am
I'd have to know the rules and regulations of the Greenway area and who has the right to be there, etc.
And the Mayor's office/City has a legal department who helps the mayor make these decisions.
The greenway demonstrators
By anon
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 12:32pm
The greenway demonstrators attempted to obtain permits to peacefully assemble on the Common, Millenium Park, City Hall Plaza, etc and were turned down each time. The city has not provided a "permit based" venue for this protest as of yet.
The protesters have a constitutional right to assemble and petition for redress of greivances but the City of Boston has not provided a sanctioned space for this activity.
It isn't as simple as you want to make it.
By Pete Nice
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 9:26am
And my questions aren't irrelevant. Is setting up tents and sleeping on public property a form of protest? Could you do it on the sidewalk? The Street? In front of your driveway?
There are lots of theretical limitations on the right to protest here. That is why this is happening now. There are some abortion clinics that have had protesters every day for the past 15 years in front of them and the police have never moved them along.
Why do you think they aren't letting the Greenway people do the same?
so, can my friends and i come
By anon
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 12:46pm
so, can my friends and i come camp out on your parents lawn for a month to protest the color they chose to paint their house?
that'd be a peaceful assembly and totally free speech right?
cause you either have the right to assemble or you don't.
Point of order
By misterbrick
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 8:50am
It has been established that 1st Amendment free speech isn't w/out restriction and definition,("fire in theatrer" etc.)
But I too am confused about a post on BPDNews.com.
Know the Laws:
Unlawful Assembly
• In the event that 5 or more armed people or 10 or more people are unlawfully, riotously or tumultuously assembled, the police can demand that they immediately and peaceably disperse.
Putting aside the vaguery of defining "Unlawful Assembly" as someone who is"unlawfully assembled," does anyone know the MA statute this is referring to? Why 10 people, or 5 armed people? How old is this thing?
I could see arresting protestors on trespassing, disturbing the peace, and obstruction of justice, but unlawfully assembly smells fishy here...
It's an old statute
By alkali
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 9:21am
The statute (Mass. Gen. Laws c. 269, § 1) dates back to at least 1750.
It used to be 12 armed or 30 unarmed men but the statute was amended in 1965 to use the lower numbers (I'd be guessing, but that may have been a response to the Watts riot in that year).
There is no case law of which I am aware interpreting the term "unlawfully" in this statute. I would suspect that a court would hold that mere assembly cannot be unlawful; there would have to be something unlawful about the assembly (e.g., that it was violent, or blocked traffic on a public street).
There was a reference in the Globe item about some demonstrators being on a part of the Greenway which was private property. I found that slightly confusing -- isn't the Greenway public property? -- but setting that confusion aside, I suppose that an group of people trespassing on private property might be held to be "unlawfully assembled."
Not enough time has been given
By HenryAlan
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 9:33am
I'm not clear on the overriding goal of the "occupy this" movement, and am not sure to what extent I sympathize. But I'm very disappointed in what happened last night. Unless the protesters were trespassing on private land or harming passerby, they should be allowed to remain in place.
I don't believe free speech should be restricted to certain zones. Until I see evidence to the contrary, I'm going to assume that the city decided it didn't want to have to expand the police presence to a larger zone of protest. The action was taken to save money, not because any laws were being broken. That's how it appears right now, but I welcome the opportunity to review counter evidence.
Not all of them are well spoken
By anon²
Tue, 10/11/2011 - 9:58am
But the just of it, to me, is a return to capitalism and meritocracy.
They realize capitalism has given way to a consumerist plutocracy, and want it stopped.
The rich have systematically torn down the regulations that protected the people; while erecting back patting and pocket filling regulations in their place to steal from the majority of taxpayers.
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