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Charlestown Bridge could be shut around 4:30 p.m.
By adamg on Thu, 11/17/2011 - 8:00am
Unemployed construction workers, other union members and Occupy Boston plan a march around 4:30 from Dewey Square to the decaying Charlestown Bridge today to press for repairs, as part of a day of Jobs Not Cuts protests at decrepit bridges across the country.
The last time Occupy Boston tried to march on the bridge, Boston Police shut the span down rather than let them on.
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Comments
It would be more productive
To attend the meetings tonight for the new apartment projects all over the city that NIMBYS will surely try to shoot down. See the Globe article.
Will you be there?
I'd like to know where you think we are going to find 2400 1%-ers to buy/rent all these places. Maybe Occupy Boston can explain how 1% of 1200 (the average annual TOTAL housing demand in Boston for the past 10 years) gets you to 2400 in less than 200 years.
But I agree - pretty much anything these kids do beyond breathing would be more productive than their current antics that are doing little beyond burning a hole in the city's pocket.
I won't be there
Because I don't care either way if they are built. I'm going to leave it up to the developers to figure out how they will attract tenants. I imagine if they don't rent initially then they will have to lower the rent.
So when the already
So when the already structurally challenged bridge has to cope with a crowd, which weighs significantly more than the automotive traffic it can't really handle anymore, I'm sure this will end well. Good thing the Coast Guard and the State Police marine unit are nearby to rescue all the people surprised to 'occupy' the Charles when the deficient bridge loses its battle with physics.
The Bridges of Suffolk County
That is seriously the second scariest bridge in the state I have been on, right after the Tobin. Deathtrap waiting to happen. Back when I was a bike messenger it was especially fun trying not to wipe out due to the metal grating that was its only surface. Particularly fun on rainy days or during winter. Being able to look under your feet all the way to the water was nice too. Big ups to the old Summer Street bridge near D street no longer there due to the Big Dig. That was another fun, grating only, bridge.
Meridian Street bridge (Chelsea to Eastie) is much scarier
Maybe I've just gotten used to it, but the North Washington Street bridge doesn't bother me much on a bike anymore. What does freak me out is the Meridian Street bridge -- those expansion joints look ready to eat any bicycle tire unlucky enough to cross them at the wrong angle. I would never want to ride across it in the rain, or even the day after rain.
(As for the Tobin - what were you doing trying to ride across it???)
I was refering to structural
I was refering to structural soundness, or lack thereof, of the decks. The biking on the Charlestown bridge is just an example of how shoddy the bridge is. I avoid the Tobin in a car, wouldn't dream of biking it.
I understand the grating from when it was once an active swing bridge, but now its just a rusty mess that is not going to move. They did a pretty nice job when they re-did the [formerly moving] bridges over the channel, why not turn some attention to this eyesore.
Here's a pretty good view where you can see the turntable underneath:
http://www.historicbridges.org/massachusetts/charl...
Tobin Bridge
It's not rated as structurally deficient, which is a pretty specific rating done by engineers. It is "functionally obsolete" meaning it doesn't comply with current construction codes. In particular I think the lane width and shoulder space is what is really out of whack with the Tobin. Here's a map of the bridges in our area.
Really?
It sure looks structurally deficient. And when you see stories like this (granted a few years old but I trust claims of repair from Massport as far as I can throw them)
http://www1.whdh.com/news/articles/local/BO59345
Sorry but I don't trust any bridge from that era, no matter what. And the Tobin is too high as well, a new bridge should be built at a more reasonable height since soon no large ships will need passage there.
there's a reason
There's a reason why it is so high. It replaced the Chelsea Street Bridge which was a low draw bridge in the 1950s. And was built for the (cancelled) I-95. In the 1950s and when the highway was planned, FTA requirements don't allow for a drawbridge (or its not recommended) so the bridge was replaced with the Tobin to allow for the big boats to pass under it to get to the ports on the other side.
I agree, it sucks. It LOOKS like a rust bucket, but the roadway and structure is sound. The guards and what YOU see are rusting out.
If the Tobin were lower it would have to be a drawbridge
so that LNG tankers and other large ships could get past it. We do still have a working port in Chelsea and Everett.
Ships even need to get west of the Route 99 bridge, probably to reach the Boston Edison power plant; I've had to wait for that drawbridge to close.
Alford st bridge goes up for
Alford st bridge goes up for sailboats.
Nothing else. Rte 99.
Hey, you!
My Grandfather Tony was a construction worker on the the Tobin Bridge, from start to finish. And until his dying day he always said; "You never have to worry about that bridge as long as it's maintained properly".
Now I don't know if it's maintained properly, I think that it is, given all the times I've driven over it and they're doing something or other on it over the years. I will say this; I drive through the Big Dig every day and there are days I say to myself, "Is this it? Is this the day?"
I don't want to think about such things, but over the last few years, I've seen too many things I don't like in that tunnel, I don't trust it. I also bring up my Grandfather because he and his crew were the type of construction workers who took pride in building things that were going to last and they took pride in knowing they were building a piece of a better future for all.
A little Frank Capra, but it's true. Nowadays I have to drive through a tunnel that already has a few deaths to it's credit and a history of people who weren't so much concerned with building something historic and useful to all than they were about fucking the taxpayers out of every dime they could.
University Ave. Bridge, Lowell
Rotted metal deck with holes, narrow, nowhere to ride. Possibly haunted, if you read Kerouac ...
Oh, and it has the extra special feature that the deck appears to vanish at around 13mph if the light is right. You can hear it under the bike tires, but it gives the illusion of flying over the Merrimack and the jagged rocks and rapids below.
Our Occupyers are Sooooo Fat ....
Really?
Really?
A typical mid-size SUV or minivan weighs about 4,000 lbs plus whatever is in the vehicle - say, 4,400 as driven. You can't fit 22 200lb or 30 150lb people in the space of one Chevy Blazer or Honda Passport. Also consider the dynamic loads will be different - they may want to lay off the drums and avoid marching in unison, maybe - but Really?
Yes really, ask a civil
Yes really, ask a civil engineer. The heaviest loads both the Longfellow and Harvard bridges face are during the 4th on July.
Static vs. Dynamic loads are different, too
But of course, you would know to ask about that. Right?
Different sorts of dynamic loads, too
The effect of crowds randomly milling around on the bridges (as you would see on July 4th) is probably quite different from that of a crowd all walking the same direction at once (even if not 'in step').
Protesters
There's probably enough uncertainty with a bridge this old, along with the behavior(s) of an unknown number of people that perhaps public officials would prefer to err on the side of caution and not allow the protest to happen right on the bridge.
/civil engineer
//not a structural PE
re: ask a civil engineer
ssshh! Don't let those pesky facts & figures get in the way of someone's preconceived notion!
But pedestrians could be wall-to-wall
taking up essentially all of the surface area of the bridge deck. Cars, even stopped ones, have a lot of space between them, both side-to-side and front-to-back.
Here's some scale
I was accounting for that much space in my estimates, Ron.
Eight to ten people with bikes packed closely together filled the space of one car stopped in traffic when they had the Longfellow down to a choked off lane.
Without the bikes, maybe you could pack in 20 people in that space taken by a car and a buffer.
If those people all weighed around 200 lbs ... maybe that would approach the curb weight of an average passenger vehicle. (You can only get about 10-12 people in the actual footprint of a car.) People average somewhat less than 200 lbs, however.
Brooklyn Bridge
http://www.villagevoice.com/2003-08-26/news/point-...
I was one of the walkers on the Brooklyn Bridge that afternoon, and while I did not feel the swaying others reported, the pedestrian density was very high.
http://oi42.tinypic.com/15f52xw.jpg
Bridges do sag......
The density of pedestrians is much higher than just cars. You can fit a lot of pedestrians into the space of a single car and the gap to the next car.
Look at the Golden Gate Bridge when it was crammed full of pedestrians for its 50th anniversary (I was there)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ginger1/504060812/in/...
And with the normal load of traffic
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ginger1/503994413/in/...
There was so much sag that the state had some engineers do some quick calculations on the strength and stability of the bridge that day.
Beat me to it.
I was going to look for that link and post it.
Trucks are much denser than passenger vehicles
Bridges have to be constructed to carry loaded 18 wheelers and other heavy truck traffic which can be much denser than a virtually empty passenger vehicle. I thought I saw a sign with a weight limit of 50,000lbs per vehicle, but I can't seem to find a citation on that.
But just thinking about it, a semi truck loaded with anything denser than humans - say construction materials, or a heating oil would be much much heavier than a group of people.
No more bailouts!
Except for unions. They deserve bailouts because they vote for Democrats.
Mentally challenged are we?
Union workers (and everyone) wants a good paying job to support their family and have a decent life. Bankers want billions after destroying the economy. This isn't about Republicans and Democrats, hell, most of these protesters seem to dislike the Democrats. But that's too hard for your simple little mind to grasp.
Unions are corporations too,
Unions are corporations too, and rather large ones at that! But they're special in that they usually don't have to pay most taxes, and individual states can force people to buy (automatic payroll deductions for dues) their main product (membership) as a requirement of employment.Freedom of association doesn't exist if you want a job in some sectors.
On their way there . . .
. . . now- looks like. Bigger crowd than the usual marches past my building- by about three times. 1000 people tops is my totally amateur- from a window- with it dark n rainy out - guesstimate.
Bridge not occupied
They came down Commercial in the North End, stopped at the turn to the bridge, had a little rally to demand bridge repairs and jobs, then walked across to Causeway and kept on marching. Police - there might have been 50 just on the bridge, did shut the bridge for the 2 minutes or so it took the protesters to cross the intersection. Just in case, BPD had what seemed like every prisoner wagon in the city parked a couple of blocks away, by Avenir.