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Strawberries Folds Forever

Yet another Downtown Crossing landmark is closing. ArchBoston reports that the 'f.y.e' music store on Washington Street, which was called Strawberries until recently, is closing down and having a clearance sale.

Strawberries joins Filene's, Filene's Basement, Barnes & Noble, and Borders on a dismayingly growing list of major retailers who have left Downtown Crossing without being replaced by anything else.

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down there. And before I get the usual Wal-Mart haters, ask yourself this; would you rather see something or nothing down there?

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except for the greedy members of the 0.001% who are holding the Filene's site hostage. Hasn't the Mayor said he would like a Target there?

None of the other storefronts I mentioned would be big enough to hold a Target.

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I'd rather see nothing than a Walmart there.

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Rather see nothing than a Wal-Mart.

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Not that I'd ever go there, but I'd like to see a Walmart go in.

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did you think about that sentence for any number of seconds before you hit the save button?

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I can't even imagine the success a Target or similar store would have there. It would be amazing.

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Why don't they split the spaces up, and try to attract some local businesses? How bout the city/state subsidize some people who want to open up some store fronts? Why go after the "big business" when there are plenty of local businesses that may be able to bring some new life the area... Keep Boston Local?

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You are always welcome to cut a check and subsidize anyone and anything you like.

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with my choice to go to local stores as opposed to multi national corporation. But it can be the roll of the government to promote growth of local businesses by giving them financial incentives to make investments and hire employees.

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Nobody asked me whether or not I wanted to subsidize the Krafts' sports franchise, or Fidelity, or Gillette -- they just did it for me, out of my tax dollars. Now somebody's proposing that the city do the same for small businesses that they've been doing for big business all along.

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The idea is to have one or two large national stores that have a built in loyal following and can afford the rent on a large chunk of commercial real estate, and that will bring the foot traffic to maintain lots of smaller stores satelliting around it. Incentives can be given to keep the smaller stores local.

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The idea is to have one or two large national stores that have a built in loyal following and can afford the rent on a large chunk of commercial real estate, and that will bring the foot traffic to maintain lots of smaller stores satelliting around it. Incentives can be given to keep the smaller stores local.

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this is one of the easiest answers I have ever given:

I would rather see the Filene's hole than a Wal-Mart.

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To be fair, aren't purveyors of old-fashioned books (like Barnes & Noble and Borders) and physical media (FYE's CDs and DVDs) struggling just about everywhere? Some things can't be blamed entirely on the Filene's Hole.

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Newbury Comics seems to be holding on OK -- they've even moved a couple of their stores (downtown -> Faneuil Hall, Fresh Pond) into larger facilities over the past few years.

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The current Fresh Pond location is smaller than the previous one across the street. Sorry to nit-pick but I love Newbury Comics and was upset when they moved.

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Sorry for the mistake - my memory of this move is obviously faulty.

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The Fresh Pond store is noticeably smaller in its new location.

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They sent out a note on Facebook about a month and a half ago saying that their company will have to shrink down to a handful of stores soon if they don't come up with a way of changing their business, and asked for ideas on what to do about it.

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Wasn't their big plan to move away from selling music and into selling pop culture junk?

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While there is some retro-love for vinyl that is a tiny fraction of the music sales they used to do. Their CD sales are definitely declining heavily.

Maybe they should go back to selling primarily comics like they used to do. Hard to believe if you go in there now, but when it existed only on Newbury St and in Harvard Sq the centerpiece for the store was still comic books with dozens of back issue bins, and all the new releases.

Although I suppose even comics are starting to go digital (noted the influx with the new color Kindle model).

They could probably save themselves by re-branding themselves for online sales. Currently, shopping on their website is like using a time machine back to 1996.

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I'm not immediately finding it on their Wall. (I do, however, find an announcement of a brand new Newbury Comics store at the Natick Collection Mall.)

Edit: do you mean this interview ?

Edit 2: Oh I guess you mean this. I don't understand why anyone would put a letter like this on Facebook instead of on their own web site. Facebook is a terrible place to put anything that you want someone to find a month or a year later.

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this explains the "old media" stores going out of business, but not the fact that nothing is taking their place...

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I think it might have to do with the astronomical rents, insurance, and utilities to keep a business running here.

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Realistically, it's because of mismanagement. The Borders at DTX was the most successful store in the entire chain, situated right near two major colleges and the Financial District. How it closed with nobody taking it over baffles me.

Secondly, it's hard to see what business would really go in there. What appeals to high school kids, college kids and office workers?

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I think the problem is scale. Downtown Crossing has enough storefronts that it could handle having businesses that appeal to college kids OR high school kids OR office workers OR, for that matter, the arts community still hanging on tenaciously in Chinatown and the Leather District, the non-profiteers who now have a big chunk of the DTX office space , etc etc. To say nothing of the growing number of folks moving to neighborhoods within a mile of the Filene's hole, like the Canal Street area. I would love to see a mix. But DTX has a couple of big spaces to fill. Target appeals to enough of the regular foot traffic to work. At one point, I remember someone floating the idea of an Ikea in that space, modified from their typical style to fit an urban space. It is difficult but not impossible to find a large tenant that will appeal to enough folks in DTX to stay busy. Do you remember the DTX Woolworths? That was one of the last profitable stores in the chain -- a la Borders-- when it shut down. Target would be like an updated Woolworths replacement. Cheap enough that even HS kids can shop, carrying enough appealing useful stuff to get office workers and downtown residents in.

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Re: Ikea, Target, or any other big-box store-- they need parking, because their customers expect that, and quite frankly the big-box/big-item model doesn't really work with public transportation, at least not here in the U.S. Yes, it's possible to carry a flat-packed dresser on the T, and yes, I'm sure certain posters here have done it successfully and had a fulfilling experience, but most people expect who shop at such places expect to drive there.

(Side note about Ikea-- I think, for the most part, that people who can afford to live within walking distance of DTX aren't furnishing their places with Ikea)

Also, whether or not DTX would be helped by attracting more places where teens could afford to shop is questionable (which you note here and lower down). The combined purchasing power of the teens who hang out there isn't such that having more places for them to shop would suddenly transform things-- they're not hanging on to their money and spending it elsewhere. (And for those of you who think I'm suggesting that they don't have a right to be there: I'm not, so calm down.)

The reason why businesses oriented to teens don't do well there is because it's a different era-- there's more malls in the suburbs, kids can shop on the Internet, and (I think) less time available for those kids who do have money to make their ways downtown, to say nothing of suburban parents' increasing reluctance to let their kids have any unsupervised time of any kind.

Do kids still come into town? Yes, of course they do-- but not as many or as often as before, and (apparently) not nearly enough to keep a small, niche retail store viable... and really, there's less and less of a difference between which stores are in the city and which are in the suburbs now. Opening a Target's going to fix this?

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If you have only been to suburban stores you would think that - but Target has successful stores in urban core areas that rely on people traffic.

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For much of history, residents of Boston managed to buy food, buy large amounts of coal, buy furniture, etc. without cars being involved. Even around the time of peak population, only a fraction of residents drove cars - my MIL didn't even ride in a car until her first date in 1951!

Much of Europe - at least the people in the cities - live car-free or car-light lifestyles.

Consider as well that there are thousands of office workers downtown who currently lack places to buy groceries and some pretty basic housewares and stuff, and would buy more stuff on their lunch break if such errands were possible. Furthermore, people on UHub have reported in the past that downtown is far more convenient to where they live than South Bay or even Cambridgeside.

There is a market for shopping downtown - the problem is, the lack of anchor stores limits foot traffic for daily sorts of stuff and that cuts traffic to the smaller places. The ability to quickly pick up a few items at lunch, or buy groceries to eat for lunch, would bring people out to shop.

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Coal? I doubt people necessarily hauled their coal supplies back to the hearth on their backs. I think there was also a lot more deliveries in eras past. Nowadays I doubt many people think of having their groceries and whatnot delivered as it can be pricey or assumed to be (what does it cost to have a pea-pod delivery from Stop-n-Rob or whereever?). At the beginning of the last century my great-grandfather's grocery store did deliveries all over the place and it wasn't necessarily rich people who were being delivered to.

Of course back then not every person had their own car -- so deliveries might have been a bit easier.

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Everyone's downloading from itunes and illegal programs and then burn'n them to CDs or simply just listening via ipods.

Strawberries would have survived if they carried more darkwave/coldwave music.

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That is a totally AWESOME headline, Adam!

I'm sad about the content of the story, but resigned. Bricks and mortar delivery of media is a dying business, as you very well know. After all, you exemplify part of the new(-ish) media model!

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Credit belongs to Ron, who wrote the post.

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Mea maxima culpa, Ron, and thanks for the excellent punnage.

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I worked at the strawberries in question back in the early 2000s.. It was great. Once, there was a stabbing on the ground floor and we had to lock the store down until police and paramedics showed up. The manager told us to keep the music playing though, since there were speakers outside on the street. How thoughtful!
Also, once there was a shootout on Washington Street, and about a hundred terrified pedestrians spilled into the store to seek cover only to be assaulted by Bootylicious by Destiny's Child.
Ahh my first two week's notice.

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So I take it they weren't ready for that jelly?

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Wasn't this supposed to be Menino's revitalization zone and legacy?

I'd hate to be the fool that bought into One Providences' marketing team. DTX seems to be bleeding shops left and right the past few years.

Maybe it's time to give some tax breaks for the zone (broadly) and suggest to the landlords it be a nice thing if they dropped rents a tad and fostered some improvement to the help out the businesses down there.

I'd say a broad tax break for an area in trouble is better than giving away a behemoth one to a mega corp like Liberty Mutual to do what they were planning to do all along.

And why we are on Liberty Mutual, did I just hear they've been given a variance to not include street level shops and retail?

WTH is this city thinking? The rents are too damn high!

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Meant 45 Province. The place that couldn't attract a restaurant and had their liquor license pulled.

I should know better to post before having my afternoon (dunks) coffee

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EDIT: Ron, he means "45 Province". The condo project. I think most people who buy there know what they're getting into. Those who moved into the Ritz may have had the same fears when they moved in in 2001.

If you're in DTX, check out Cakeology at 45 Province. Great "award-winning" cupcakes and they could use your business!

Not that it matters (except for me) but my ArchBoston.com post on this predated the other one by four days.

http://www.archboston.org/community/showpost.php?p...

And, regarding the neighborhood and the city's efforts: all in good time.

And, no, there's no need for tax breaks. The free market works better without it. (And a tax break was exactly what Vornado was waiting for.)

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The only problem with that is when you get slumlords that buy up properties, like the Levin Family Trust did, and then sit on them for decades waiting for some non-existent developer with bottomless pits of money to show up. There should be tax consequences for sitting on a property and not even making an honest attempt to lease it.

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amen. well put.

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The long decline of this area began in early 80s when it officially stopped being plain old "Washington Street", with cars allowed, and became "Downtown Crossing", a misguided attempt to have a suburban walking mall with no vehicle traffic, in what was once an extremely vibrant, if somewhat grimy, downtown destination area. From that point on it was a long, slow decay to the brutal wasteland it is today.

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I don't see how adding cars back to Washington Street would make any difference. Do you think people should be able to park at a meter outside their favorite store and run in? That doesn't scale up very well.

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Yeah, it needs more filled storefronts but it still is pretty busy, and I don't think "brutal" really applies. It isn't dangerous.

One thing I've wondered about over the years is, given that it's an afterschool hangout for a lot of teens, why don't more businesses really engage that? Go into Gamestop or that-place-i-can-never-remember-the-name-of next to it after 3PM any day and it's packed with guys on the XBOX & PSP consoles playing against each other. I'd love to open an old school arcade in DTX w/ a mix of new and old games if I had the bucks. Instead, we repeatedly see businesses that try to appeal to an older crowd go in and fail, complaining all the while about the young crowd in the area. Maybe a 17 yo isn't interested in a Gap outlet and their line of Garanimals for the middleaged.

On the more adult side, the various craft/art businesses that set up temporary shop-- well, I think one is permanent now-- through the holidays do well. And Ten Thousand Villages seems to be doing well so far. Maybe that's the sort of local tenant landlords could pursue. However, the point made below that many of the landlords probably aren't local enough/don't care enough to cultivate that probably has it right

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...Stairway to Heaven!!!!

Where do people get their blacklight-ready posters these days?? I don't wanna have to drive all the way out to the mall and Spencer's!

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Before it was Stairway to Heaven it was a headshop called Miles, with posters, bootleg albums, etc. I bought many things there in the 70s. Anybody remember that place? It occupied the upstairs and downstairs on a storefront on Winter Street, but the ground floor was a womens shoe store. Unusual setup, but it was a great place.
The building it was in and the whole surrounding area is very scuzzy now.

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I don't really understand what people expect cars to be able to bring. Washington Street is a relatively narrow street in a dense transit-friendly car-unfriendly neighborhood. Why the hell would anybody ever want to drive there? Pedestrian traffic is vastly more important than car traffic in an urban environment. Trying to pull in cars is replicating suburbia in a far more flawed way than trying to create an outdoors mall is. (And people can still drive to Downtown Crossing if they really really want to, they just can't park on that stretch of the street itself.)

Bringing cars back to Downtown Crossing isn't necessarily a bad idea, but the idea that it will revitalize the area seems silly.

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Boston once had a thriving commercial waterfront with busy wharfs. As shipping declined in the early 20th Century, the city actually built new wharfs in South Boston in an effort to attract new business. Needless to say, the efforts failed, and the money spent was wasted.

To what degree is the city trying to do the same thing today with Downtown Crossing? It was a thriving retail center for a century, and then the nature of the market changed, and many retailers left or went out of business. So how much sense does it make to keep trying (and keep failing) to recreate the economic conditions of 60 years ago?

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I agree with you point: there's no reason to try to recapture what DTX was. The neighborhood can have some large retail (Macy's, One Franklin, Borders' building) and street level retail but it needs to look to the colleges nearby and residential projects of moderate size to rehab it.

However, I think you're off in your example of the Waterfront by about 50-100 years. Its decline began in the 1800's from what I remember reading.

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I agree with you about primarily student-oriented development and retail (I'm 100% on Target), but I still think that DTX is the prime location for Nordstrom to enter the metro-Boston market. The city doesn't have a single one. You have to drive to Natick, Burlington, Northshore or South Shore Plaza to shop. I could see all the ritzy people from the Back Bay, Brookline, Beacon Hill, the South End, and the North End flocking to this great downtown department store regularly, as well as the tourists. Macy*s doesn't have the same following, especially the dump of a store we have now after the numerous reductions in size/floors of the Jordan Marsh spaces.

There's an even larger shortage for jcpenney in the area. Your only options are Northshore, Natick, and Hanover (and the SC Galleria/Emerald Square if you stretch the scope).

I think the problem is largely that Macy*s needs competition. DTX thrived off of competition. The only companies Macy*s doesn't own now are Nordstrom, jcpenney, Lord & Taylor, Saks, Barneys and NM, the latter four are in the Pru/Copley Place.

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Very good point. I hadn't thought about Nordstrom. That would pull in "destination shoppers," if there is such a thing. And even though that's more upscale than anything down there now, it wouldn't interfere with the current mix-- another element can be added and pull in a different crowd without squeezing anyone else out. I can't imagine that the TJ Maxx or H&M will go under soon in that location, so that stabilizes a lower price point shopping.
Though it wouldn't be big enough for the old Filene's building, another possibility would be to have a regular Eddie Bauer with the outlet attached. The outlet store in DTX seems to do pretty well.

In truth, while I think that the old Filene's building will have to have a department store or something like it (Target!) in order to justify the care&feeding of a building that size, overall, I'd like to see more diverse ventures down there. Maybe Waterstones will come back. It's been years since DTX had a kitchen/cooking store. Now that Daddy's is gone, a guitar/music store could complement the piano stores nearby. And DTX could really use another comic book store, now that Newbury Comics moved (throwing a bone to my boyfriend there.)

Needs more non-shopping things to do in DTX, too. When I lived on Hudson Street many years ago, and DTX was even more empty than it now is, I thought someone should put in a roller rink. Again, appealing to 14-20 and younger. Can't remember exactly, but I think it was when Lafayette Place was an echo chamber & it seemed like as good an idea as any. This was when Chez Vous had nightly gunfire, and I figured anything downtown would be under more scrutiny than CV. Boston lacks indoor things for the 12-18 set to do.

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I've been preaching Nordstrom since before the Filene's Memorial Hole was created. It would have been the PERFECT reuse of the entire historic Filene's building. They could have demolished the low-rise concrete bunker addition from the 70s and still had a massive historic 9-story flagship for New England. The ground floor could have had a scaled-up version of their eBar too. I've firmly believed for years that Nordstrom would solve all of DTX's problems. Once they got there, major retailers would want to flock back.

I want to know if Nordstrom ever seriously considered DTX (or anywhere in downtown Boston) and why they rejected DTX/Boston if they did look into it. They chose the suburbs instead.

I'd also like to see a Hollister Co. flagship store in one of the historic facades in DTX. It would be similar, maybe a little smaller, to their EPIC concept in SoHo. ANF already has a flagship at Faneuil Hall. There isn't a Hollister in Boston and college kids and tourists alike are flocking to CambridgeSide just to shop at Hollister. DTX could become a real destination if they take advantage of the major retailers that Boston proper lacks.

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If I had to guess-- and this is truly just a guess-- I think that Nordstrom has become so parking/mall oriented now that they just don't contemplate getting in cities anymore. A bunch of Nordstroms have opened across the Southeast over the past 20 years and they are all in upscale malls. They have a pat formula.

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It's in a mall called Providence Place, but it's right next door to the downtown train station, a short walk from RISD and even a reasonable pleasant walk from Brown.

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Providence Place has a massive 8fl garage though (and its a massive mall). My intent would be a replica of their Seattle flagship in Boston. Their East Coast expansion has already proven to be a huge success.

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access to and from an Interstate highway, which DTX doesn't.

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That counts as very good access to me.

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Now there's a blast from the (not TOO distant)past. That place crashed and burned awfully fast. It may have been a matter of bad timing. It was built like a windowless fortress to sheild shoppers from the remnants of the Combat Zone which still existed at the time. I recall times when the food court would be crowded with people, but other times I'd walk around there on a Saturday afternoon and it would be a complete ghost town, save for what appeared to be old men from Chinatown sitting at the tables and on benches, but not shopping or buying anything. I remember the old Chess King was in there with their very 80s fashions. The whole thing seemed to have come and gone very quickly. Shoppers just didn't seem to want to go to that far south on Washington Street. Maybe today with the renewed Opera House, Paramount, etc it might have fared better.

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If I'm recalling correctly some of the developers were either from Montreal or were greatly inspired by the mall/subway set up in that city. Which might explain why the place had such a "anti-outside world" feel to it. Swissotel, the hotel that went in is now a Hyatt. The whole thing came on-line just as the real estate market in Boston was crashing in the 80s. Timing is everything.

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That mall opened up at about the same time as Copley Place, which is still around (and soon: With amazing skyscraper action!). They were actually somewhat similar in their underlying "philosophy" (if malls can have one): Walled-off fortresses isolated from the city around them.

Why did one fail and one thrive?

Copley Place appealed to suburbanites who wanted a taste of the city without actually having to interact with the city: They drive in on the Pike, get off the ramp, park in the garage and there they are. If they really want to "explore," there are the human hamster tubes leading to the hotels and the Pru mall (although back then, I seem to recall it was still a fairly unsuccessful mostly outdoorish mall).

In contrast, there was no easy access to Lafayette Place, at least not by car. With its large gray wall on Washington Street, it basically told the hoi polloi they were not worthy, and so they stayed away in droves. So by managing to be both inconvenient to suburbanites and alienating to pedestrians, the only surprise was it lasted as long as it did.

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Aside from the marketing failure that I think you quite accurately described, there is another little tidbit for thought here. I recall Lafayette Place because members of my family were involved in its development/construction at different levels (not particularly high ones). So when casino advocates, union heads and the like talk about the importance of the construction of these projects for the JOBS! JOBS! JOBS! I have to sort of agree that yes indeed, my dad was doing the engineering work and my brothers were doing the construction - we had jobs while the thing was going up.

But if a project isn't well thought out it can have disastrous job implications for years afterwards. Imagine if something more ...strategic than a high end, inaccessible retail mall went in there (govt offices, supermarket, whatever) the result may have been quite different come the late 80s-90s. Maybe not, I guess it depends, but there is something here for me that both supports the argument that yes, these big ass projects provide lots of jobs, but also the project should be evaluated on the merits of what gets built as we're stuck with that fucker for a lot longer.

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i got beat up in it on two seperate occasions. you got in and you were never sure who would be getting on at each stop on the way to the top floor. it was a form of russian roulette. had to have my motley crue shit.

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Seriously! Years back I got on with this guy who sent chills down my spine. He didn't speak to me or look at me. He just oozed bad ass muthaf*cka I will kill you without a second thought! Longest elevator ride of my life.
I remember in the late 80's the top floor had a DJ spinning vinyl. Thought I was v. cool taking the train in from the 'burbs going to Strawberries in DTX.

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Maybe its time to stop thinking of DTX as a place to shop for things, and more of an extension of the Theater District. Now that the Opera House, the Paramount and the Modern have all been restored, with the help of Emerson, I'm seeing retail stores folding at the same rate, but I'm seeing more bars and restaurants opening up - Stoddard's, Max & Dylans, Mantra, UDG down Summer Street, Sweet and Scholar's on School Street, Kingston Station on Kingston Street, and now this new Salvatore's on Washington.

The real eyesore of course is the Filene's Hole, thanks to this grudge match between the Mayor and Roth at Vornado, but the storefronts across from there on Washington, particularly the old Barnes and Noble, are particularly troublesome. B&N has been shuttered for at least 8 years, with never a hint of any big chain (Target, Best Buy, Trader Joe's) wanting to lease it, in spite of the huge volume of foot traffic that passes everyday. My simple question to the city is, who owns that building and the buildings around it, and why is it so hard to fill them with some major retailer? Are the owners waiting for a big buy out from Suffolk or Emerson so they can knock down everything on that block so a new dorm can be built, or for Apple to wave around a lot of cash so they can build a new Apple Store there? Why are these owners holding out for years? Why have no improvements been made over the years to make them more attractive to modern retail? How much are they charging per square foot to lease? Are they even interested in leasing?

My personal theory is that these properties ceased to have real landlords long ago, certainly local ones, and are now just assets and holdings in some ledger sitting on a desk in Dubai. On paper, they're probably described as being worth millions because of their location, but has anyone actually visited them? Is anyone in City Hall even in touch with them? Or are they like Roth, deliberately blighting the neighborhood just to get city concessions?

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If they're deliberately blighting the neighborhood to get some concessions, they're going to have a long frickin' wait. It's not like the Emerson and Suffolk frosh or the high school kids hanging out care, and they're the only ones that view it as anything other than a walking area.

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they still open?

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They've been gone for quite some time. ...sigh....

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Before Strawberries became f.y.e. it was THE place where I was able to fill my cassette tape collection. When new albums from artists came out, you got first pickin's without a problem. If Tower Records or HMV didn't have it, Strawberries likely did.

And - the salespeople at Strawberries were knowledgeable (even at the Strawberries next door to the Rathskeller in Kenmore Square, right before they tore everything down for gentrification). I had Strawberries employee (an older man) in disbelief when I told him I sold my Stevie Ray Vaughan cassettes a few days before he died.

Going to f.y.e., however, was an exercise in avoiding the pitch for their rewards program. By then, I discovered MP3s and Amazon, so going to either Borders or f.y.e. was redundant.

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to customers with an MBTA pass. So, I went there with a co-worker of mine shortly thereafter. At the checkout, my friend showed his T pass to the clerk. The clerk then grabbed the pass from him, and stated that the policy was that you had to surrender the pass to get the discount.

The ensuing argument between my friend and the clerk caught the attention of the manager, who came out. Upon hearing my friend's complaint, the manager actually sided with the clerk. Fortunately, my friend got his pass back, but he left his CDs on the counter and we both walked out of the store.

I haven't walked into an f.y.e. since then.

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What's the closest supermarket offering that area fresh foods?

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isn't a "supermarket", but they do sell fresh fruit. Chinatown has food markets too, but I don't know their names or addresses.

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It is on Lincoln St. on the other side of the Greenway by South Station.

That's about it - and you have to like only Chinese stuff.

No grocery stores until you get to Whole Foods on Cambridge St.

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is a full-service grocer, though a small and expensive one. And it's closer to DTX than Whole Foods.

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