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Governor offers two state sites for children crossing the border
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Deval Patrick's comment
was a bright spot in what felt like a very dark day...a dark week, really. And I just read many of the comments about the El Salvadoran man trying to get to his dying son--the kindness of the commenters was wonderful but apparently the POB folks did track him down--his son passed away.
I agree. I'm glad we have a
I agree. I'm glad we have a governor who will act with compassion, and a citizenry who supports those acts.
They are technically runaways
They are technically runaways and should be returned to their parents.
You cannot take a minor on his/her word. Some of these kids could be from Ohio
I Didn't Like Him at First, but Good for the Governor
I saw the "Freedom Radio" billboard on the Expressway this evening and it makes me glad when at the same time we can have compassion for the needy and segregate Alex Jones, Limbaugh,Dennis Miller, and the other cranks to a weak AM signal in the 7th largest media market in the country.
As the son of immigrants, one of whom was here only kind of legally, God Bless the Commonwealth of Massachusetts and the United States of America.
God?
What year is it?
Apparently Jackarseuary for you.
It is only a phrase, lighten up Francis.
I would definitely entrust
I would definitely entrust the DCF to be able to effectively care for these children.
Faith...
It's 2014. It's time to stop believing in eons old mythology. As for the kids, sure, let them in. Then raise them as AMERICANS. Teach them English, show them American traditions, and put them on the right path. Yeah, I know. I'm not allowed to say that. Sue me.
I'm sure their parents
... would be very happy to have us do just that! After all, they would be safe, and would have a chance at a better life.
It is what most of the immigrant parents that I've met and that my sons attend school with appear to want for their kids.
herp derp
dupe!
That's the classic path of assimilation and acculturation
and, as such, should be entirely non-controversial.
What I find disgusting is
those on the right that are demonizing these children as some sort of brown biological time bombs. The idiocy over at the Herald regarding this issue really shows the lemmings who do what they're told when they're told and this week little brown refugees are on the menu. Howie Carr, disgusting racist fraud that he is, has latched onto this issue with every one of his fat fingers and is really whipping up the mouth breathers this week.
Of course, Carr's moral bankruptcy is legend, but his racist invective this week is reminiscent of the Nazi propaganda against the Jews.
Right to life
But only to 9 months gestation, apparently.
Never mind that Jesus said nothing much if anything about abortion, but a hell of a lot about taking care and showing compassion to those who cannot care for themselves, including those who are not of your tribe.
And that these themes are present in Judaism as well ...
Get back to us when anyone
Get back to us when anyone suggests these immigrant children be aborted instead of deported.
Get back to me
When you find that bit where Jesus says "abortion is murder", and retracts everything he has said about taking care of other people, giving compassion to outsiders and those down on their luck, etc. etc. etc.
You do realize that these kids are being pushed to the border because they run a very high chance of being murdered if they are turned away? Of course you don't. But you wash your hands of it because it "isn't your problem", just like Judas. Even though the US destabilized these countries years ago, then created the situation that caused the violence problems by declaring a "war on drugs" rather than taking decisive steps to shrink the lucrative US market for their wares through proven public-health-based approaches to drug abuse.
Or just let me know when you have bothered to read that book you so love, rather than just thump it and assume it says what you think it does.
I love when people who don't
I love when people who don't give a shit about Christianity use the Bible to justify their politics.
Theology
Swirly - If you're going to use scripture, you might want to revise your "washing hands" references. It was Pontius Pilate, not Judas Iscariot.
Suldog
http://jimsuldog.blogspot.com
Actually, given his cavalier use of other people's money,
it's "Pontius Patrick".
Do you even know how our government works?
Obviously not.
The Governor can't just say "I think I'll pull a bunch of money out of the general fund and buy ponies for everyone!"
It doesn't work that way. The legislature has to approve any and all spending in MA.
But you clearly flunked civics a long time ago - when they didn't even require teachers to know what they were doing, or some nun with a sub-high school education and fifty kids in the room.
(ps Suldog - I stand corrected. However, the point about washing hands of responsibility and consequences of actions still stands)
Illegal immigration is illegal.
I don't give a damn what Martha Coakley thinks. Illegal immigration is illegal. It shouldn't be happening. Send them back, obey the law. You want to change the law? Obama had two years of a Democratic congress and it didn't happen.
Oh, that's right. We get to pick and choose the laws we want to obey.
Even better, tighten up the border physically, as was promised by Ted Kennedy in the nineties.
Hey You Kids, Get Offa My Lawn
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2014/07/14/americans-are-...
The numbers show that only the extreme xenophobes are those calling to "send them back". Even amongst the traditional right wing, the majority view is that immediate and unconditional deportation is not the answer.
What is especially telling is how those numbers break down by age. Those opposed to paths to citizenship for immigrants the most are not getting any younger.
And we do get to pick and choose the laws we want to obey.
That's why certain states are pushing ahead with marijuana legalization and gay marriage.
Racists of the 40's & 50's
are still alive. The ones in Boston complaining about busing and those in the south that lynched black men for being in the wrong place when the mob got angry.
No surprise they're still kicking and screaming about those uppity minorities. Luckily they have far fewer years ahead than behind.
Law change?
"The numbers show that only the extreme xenophobes are those calling to "send them back"."
Ah. I'm a racist. I get it. 50,000 kids over the border and I'm supposed to love it? So, where are those numbers from?
"What is especially telling is how those numbers break down by age. Those opposed to paths to citizenship for immigrants the most are not getting any younger."
I'm not opposed to paths to citizenship. I'm for it. It's called, wait for it, immigration. Legally.
"And we do get to pick and choose the laws we want to obey.
That's why certain states are pushing ahead with marijuana legalization and gay marriage."
Yes. It's called 'passing laws'. Get it? Pass a law, get legal gay marriage and weed.
Like their ideas,
they pick the numbers out of their ass.
Thanks Obama!
Two things:
Under Obama we've drastically increased deportations and border security, and drastically increased the budget to do so far beyond what any President prior has done. Period. That's a fact.
Second, are you going to put your entire paycheck on the line for 100% enforcement by all and any means necessary? Any idiot knows that as you approach 100% enforcement of anything, costs rise exponentially to meet that last 0.0001%.
To put it anther way, the world is never black and white and we can never be perfect. Not even close when we are talking about budgets and tax payer funded expenditures.
That's assuming the patchwork laws on the books aren't insane as is, which they are. Economical and Socially there's no legitimate reason to keep immigrants from coming here with open arms and assimilating as long as they don't break criminal laws.
An open immigration policy and policing and deporting the bad apples would be much more beneficial, a hell of a lot cheaper, and have a chance of actually be a working program that we could implement and succeed with.
I'm not looking for perfect.
Fine, put the revolving door right there in Texas. They come in, they go right back into Mexico.
You do realize that they are not from Mexico, but other countries.
Many other countries. We need to control this for several very legit reasons.
Thanks, Obama.
list em
I haven't heard an argument yet that doesn't boil down to "I got mine, fuck them, they'll take mine" which isn't how the world works.
Feels that way, but that's our unfortunate gut ape instinct leftover from a time when it was big things with teeth and alpha males were looking to kill us.
You can't be
Catholic and pro death penalty.
You are repulsive
Many people sincerely believe only legal immigration should be allowed, and we can't deal with a massive flood of Central Americans illegally sneaking into the country. They also think it's a slap in the face of legal immigrants. I agree with them. I would add our economy is practically dead in the water, whatever growth there is, is anemic, and a huge number of working age people in this country don't work, many because they can't find a job. And there are people who (bizarrely) see no problem with adding millions more illegal and even legal immigrants, many if not most are at best semi-skilled, generally poorly educated. There are no jobs for such people, and they will make more difficult for the under class we already have, including keeping wages depressed. I won't even discuss how big business interests are trying to do the same squeeze on skilled workers by demanding more visas.
These are all perfectly legitimate concerns and doesn't mean they all hate 'brown people'.
And BTW: In fact, many of the 'children' are young adults/teenagers. This is a recipe for disaster in more ways than one.
Finally, my parents were both immigrants, not 'undocumented', but legal. They didn't sneak into the country and then demand they be accepted, made citizens, and be given all kinds if expensive social services, healthcare, etc. And if any American reading this attempted to sneak into Mexico or one of the Central American countries and tried to get away with being 'undocumented', you'd be treated far more harshly than the manner which the U.S. treats our illegal immigrants.
I deeply, deeply resent anyone calling me 'racist', or that I am afraid of or hate 'brown' people. Deeply resent it, and it's beyond contemptable for anyone to freely jump to use the race card.
Extending Not All Men ...
Just because you're not racist doesn't mean people screaming at school buses full of
YMCA kidsCentral American kids, and issuing end-of-civilization warnings about Ebola (which has never occurred outside Africa) aren't racist.So? Just because some people
So? Just because some people against this are racist doesn't mean it's racist to not want to let every single person in the country who wants to come.
Thank you!
For demonstrating your intellectual prowess! Considering I don't know you, and probably never will personally, yet you take umbrage at my calling you a racist.
If I knew you to be one of the moronic posters over at the Herald, maybe then I'd call you a racist. In fact I believe I out and out called Howie Carr a racist, and as anyone with half a brain can tell you, I'm right on the mark on that one.
And why wouldn't these children want to come here? I never seem to stop hearing right wingers crying how this is the greatest country there ever was on the face of the Earth, so why wouldn't they come here? Are we not the richest country on Earth? Or have we been lied to all these years?
Asylum
I think another important aspect to discuss is that many of those children are ending up in this country not necessarily only seeking better economic conditions, but just as much seeking better safety conditions. They truly are asylum seekers in the classic vein. The drug and gang related violence, not to mention political instability, in many of those Central American countries they are fleeing is horrific.
It's funny how, in this country, we often look down our nose at places like Detroit and Chicago for the violence in their poorer neighborhoods. But compared to cities in El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras these children would likely be far safer in Chicago's worst neighborhoods. In this country they actually stand a chance at growing up to be adults. I honestly think Mexico has a chance, eventually, of turning around the drug and violence issues plaguing it. But I am a lot more cynical about its southern neighbors having much luck.
Just to note, the US is not the only nation having to deal with these sorts of issues. European countries and Australia have had large numbers of people, past and present, entering illegally as asylum seekers. And as an unfortunate result, not unlike here, it has caused many xenophobic backlashes. But again, can you really blame someone for fleeing, say, Sudan?
Ask yourself:
Would anti-immigrants be saying the same things, verbatim, if it were a bunch of Quebecois children escaping a maple famine?
I think non
Yes
because they'd be wearing Canadians jerseys.
Well Then
Facts tend to show people have no clothes, and illegal immigration isn't any different. Not many people know the fact that the largest group of illegal immigrants both as a group, and as a yearly count are southeast and east Asians. Yet they're entirely ignored in the immigration debate.
Why? Brown people and racism.
Things aren't so rosy in the south border states for legal immigrants of Hispanic heritage as well. If you've spent any time there, you know the deal.
And yet again with the 100% incorrect, zero sum economic arguments. That's not how economics works.
(and if it is, we got a major problem as capitalism' wealth creation, growth, and efficient use of capital is just a lie)
If your going to throw around the word
FACT, make sure you're actually correct. See page 4, 8.9m out of the estimated 11.2m are from N. American.
https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/ois_ill_pe_2011.pdf
Illegal immigration is racist
against the people who do not have the fortune to be suffering in countries that are not contiguous to the United States.
Threatened by gangs and cartels in South or Central America? Welcome to America whenever your two feet can get you there!
Threatened by rape squads in Africa or radical separatists in the Middle East? Wait ten thousand years for your refugee asylum visa to come through.
Um, this isn't a new issue
I don't like typing on the iPad, so here's the short-
1840s-50s- "Know Nothing's" go against Irish Catholics
1890s-1920s- anti Italian, Jewish, and Slav movement gets immigration restricted. They had a whole group, the Immigration Restriction League, working to stem the tide of undesirables.
Of course, Asians were not welcome throughout this time.
Today, yes there are people who wince at new Asian, African, and indeed Latino arrivals, but for the most part, most of the "haters" are okay with immigration, just within the framework set out. I think a case can be made that the families of these young immigrants think that Obama said that young kids can stay, get all legal and whatnot, and the end result is this huge uptick in kids at the border "without authorization". Honestly, I want to see the proof that El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras are in fact less safe than they were in 2010.
I know I'm at odds with the Church with this. The kids deserve compassion, but at the end of the day we have laws and borders. And frankly, compared with Europe, Carr et al are bleeding hearts. Show me one legitimate figure on the right that wants to end immigration altogether. In the end, we all know that immigration built this country. It's just how to keep building it that's the issue.
So very convenient!
Where were you when the US government ignored those laws and borders and destabilized these countries with covert operations and illegal arms sales?
But, hey, it isn't like we are executing the children directly, amirite? (washes hands, seals fate)
I was at the arcade playing Donkey Kong
Again, why are these kids fleeing conditions that existed 30 years ago?
I may seem callous about this, but I understand refugees in the Middle East and parts of Africa racked with civil war. I don't see how MS-13 or Calle 18 are recent enough to cause a very large upturn in people fleeing.
By the way, Moakley worked out a truce between the FMLN and the military, so that civil war ended.
EDIT- I admit it, I misspelled Africa, which is why I hate my iPad. Also, back in my Donkey Kong playing days I used to confuse the FSLN and FMLN, which is odd as high school policy debate then was about U.S. policy in Latin America, so I should have had that down.
Herald and Carr Business Partner Johnny Martorano
only killed about 20 people, many were minorities, there is no moral equivacation in comparing Martorano's acts of self defense and the Herald Carr rightous profiteering from such to the Holocaust of brown children invading our blessed land. We need to build a Berlin wall , take our country back from the Kenyan president and the gays in order to preserve Sarah Palin's constitution. Then we will be truly free.
Why not
allow homeless veterans live on these military housing units.
I propose creating a
I propose creating a dispersal zone around the state to keep undocumented immigrants out. It's a lot like a buffer zone except constitutional because.
I get kind of nervous
...when Deval Patrick and Sean O'Malley wrap themselves in the flag and start quivering about "compassion." (Especially so for the Cardinal, when it's about kids, for the obvious reason.)
I'm not sure how to handle this disaster. But neither of these two "leaders" have any skin in the game. They don't live in the towns where they're proposing to place these kids. And if you listen to city government in Chicopee, they got no advance notice, and no advisory role in this. And when these kids ultimately wind up in Lynn, Brockton, or Lawrence Deval will be on his next shake down. Ameriuest, anyone?
These kids aren't going to Milton or Sweet P Farm in Richmond. The Archdiocese compound on Lake Street isn't being offered up either. Churches aren't being sold to fund this, and the governor hasn't announced a personal seven figure donation to kick off a relief fund.
Compassion is a pretty easy reach, when it's some else's town and other people's money your paying for it with.
deval campaign
Deval probably figures this will really help if he decides to run for pres. As its the closest thing to foreign policy experience he has! He isn't doing this out of the goodness of his heart.
Cynicism
They're not going to be living in downtown Chicopee. The temporary housing being proposed for them, while their cases are being processed, will be on the grounds of a couple of military bases. If any end up staying in the state long term it would only be if they have some adult [relative?] who can act as a guardian who is also in the area, and if they are granted asylum. They're children, I don't think they need to be treated like prisoners about to make a mass breakout.
I wish I was as smart as you
Or had your superpowers, to see into the future and know exactly what was going to happen, and when, to these kids. Do you do stock market picks, and world series predictions as well?
Unfortunately, I didn't get the super powers that you were blessed with, and can only look at the past, and the present.
In the present, I see two guys who have absolutely no skin in the game, defining "compassion" for the people who are directly affected by this. And in the past, I see the DCF disaster and endless executive disaster and the organized pedophilia machine that was the Archdiocese,
Pardon my skepticism on this one.
Good Point
These kids will be staying at Westover and Edwards where there are barrack style buildings. They are not going to be in three deckers on Monday. Besides, if they did break out, downtown Chicopee could use the economic boost. Downtown Chicopee makes downtown Lawrence look like Brookline Village.
"children"
Some of them don't look that young.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/382483/adult-illegal-immigrants-po...
So..
Were you going to link to actual news or just the National Review?
It is actual news.
They quote Lynn school officials. You want the New York Times?
the Lynn Mayor quoted a middle school 9th grade teacher
that had a 30 year old yout' hit on her. The salt and pepper hair was a tip off. BTW, if you ever had ANY involvement with MS13 you would be petrified. These are truly evil people who love to use naive do gooders as tools.
A clarification
There is no Archdiocesan compound on Lake Street. It was sold years ago. In fact there is no Archdiocesan "compound" anywhere. We all know why these sales happened but it's not as if there is a lot more to sell.
A thousand times this.
The UHub liberals here usually have a great deal of antipathy for religion and are always whining how it needs to be kept out of politics. Funny to see them all take up the cross on this.
Baloney straw man
There's generally not much antipathy expressed towards personally expressed faith/religion around here by regulars. I always find it hilarious when some commenters here try to paint UHub as populated by stereotyped 'librul' boogeymen (except for them, of course).
But having said that, the word 'god' appears exactly twice in the 37 comments so far - and one of those is the soon-to-be-debarked MatthewC being unneighborly (o sweet irony) about John C's warm expressions of affection towards our Commonwealth.
Are we on the same page?
Are we on the same page? Deval Patrick should personally be expressing his religious conviction in the matter of the undocumented immigrant children and not involving the Commonwealth.
Very
Christian like.
If this was ethnic rather
If this was ethnic rather than economic cleansing you'd be singing a different tune.
Right now we are witnessing a mass deportation of Central America's poor by their own governments and no one is bothering to condemn those responsible. Instead it's blame America for not wanting to pick up the tab. Mexico which is openly aiding and abetting this deportation is also getting a free pass.
Why aren't Mexico and the border state of South America taking in refugees too? Why isn't the Catholic Church stepping up to its large Latin American constituency to help improve conditions in these countries? Why is the entire region shirking its responsibility and no one commenting on their lack of enthusiasm for humanitarian aid? Why must the US carry the burden and blame alone?
Mexico..
right now is undertaking a public image campaign with respect to CA migrants in transit - but not actually helping them or offering any kind of shelter. In fact, they are trying very hard to now make it illegal for migrants to travel on top of La Bestia, the train that runs south to north - but not providing any alternatives, even knowing that they will still come through.
Migrants traveling through Mexico are not safe - not only are they threatened by organized and disorganized crime, but Mexican immigration and law enforcement officials routinely ignore them at best, and outright abuse them at worst. There is no efficient process (well, on paper there is, like everything else) for seeking asylum or refuge in Mexico. The process can take weeks or months or simply not have a resolution.
Mexico is not an alternative for these migrants, not on the large scales that we are seeing at the border. Many do stay here but they do so independently or with the help of non-profit or religious shelters, certainly not the government.
It's true Mexico should be doing more, but I can almost guarantee you that they never will, especially not for Central Americans, who are subject to the same discrimination and racism they face in the US.
The US ends up taking these people in because we're the dominant power, we're the ones who set the economic and political priorities that created these destabilized countries in the first place. Like a big regional boomerang called the Monroe Doctrine, it's simply our own actions come back around to bite us in the ass.
Undermining their corn and bean economy
..with cheaper GMO crap probably didn't help things but think of the Monsanto shareholders.
A hat tip to Adam, Waquoit John Costello, Swirls and yourself for preventing the thread from being an unusually toxic soup of carping disgruntled mouth breathers all aflame either with racial animosity or good old shithead rightwing jealousy that someone unworthy somewhere might be getting something.
What about our own.....
Why are we not concerned about our own homeless children? Do you know how many AMERICAN children there are? These illegals are not our responsibility, they were failed by thier own parents and thier own country. We can not even take care of our own, when we have our United States citizen homeless taken care of then maybe we can start taking on others. How come the government has never offered these places to the homeless veterans to stay? I mean they did put thier life on the line for all of us. Shouldn't they be our first priority? They she'd thier own blood for us yet we would rather care for other countries problems then our own. Why doesn't Obama and Deval offer up rooms in thier own homes? Put tents on thier front yards. Do you people not realize that what's killing this economy is that these illegals are sending billions in cash out of our country. What is your solution to this problem. I love all races, have friends in all races. What about us as Americans? We can't continue on this way. We need to clean up our own yard before we start taking on the rest of the neighborhood. Can you not understand why a man born in this country who goes to work 50-60 hours a week and hardly gets by gets angry at a ILLEGAL walking across the border and being GIVEN free housing, food, healthcare all on that mans taxes? Is there common sense anymore. If you feel so strongly we should take these people in bring them into your house, volunteer a room in your Newton mansion. Put these people in the upper percent communities and see how long it takes for opinions to change.
you took a wrong turn
http://bostonherald.com/
perhaps that environment will be more to your liking.
and who told you all these "ILLEGALS" were getting free everything?
you think they really want to leave their homes, everything they know, their families, their friends, only to come here and face people like you? you think it's some sort of fun game for them? no one wants to. they do it because they have no more options.
p.s. it's impossible for a human being to be "illegal," fun fact!
Um
actually, ya, they are informed about the best places to go and best places to get 'free' social services. Do you think they end up in urban NJ, CT, NY, and MA because there are plentiful jobs? Of course not. What there is, is plentiful state benefits. And oh yes, illegal immigrants do indeed qualify for them, and legions of 'advocates' and social workers make sure they are aware of their 'entitlements'.
As for the illegal part at the end of your post, you sound exactly like a child or immature teenager.
Um, like, actually..no
That's 100% not true. Undocumented immigrants absolutely do not qualify for things like Commonweath Care and SNAP benefits. What specific, plentiful, bounty of state benefits are you going on about?
And as for the last part.. those of us in the immigrant advocacy community have been saying that for years. If you haven't heard that before, you haven't been paying attention.
Um
it 100% is true. They will not ask your 'status'. In fact, like I said, 'advocates' main function is to assist 'undocumented' and other 'oppressed' people get their 'entitlements'. These folks will get housing subsidies or public housing, food subsidies (SNAP,WIC,food pantries), healthcare, and cold,hard $. And they will be 'fast-tracked' (put in head of the line). They will also receive preferential employment practices in the form of 'advocates' (public and private) advocating for their employment, employment 'benchmarks' (quotas), and government kickbacks to employers in the form of tax credits. They will even get in-state tuition at state schools, and of course plenty of 'assistance' with grants and loans.
That's right!
Dint ya know that they can buy a brand new car with dose EBT cahds?
OK, so since they are human, what the Tsararnaev brothers did
was LEGAL? Good to know. Facile tool.....
wha??
What does that have to do with anything?
The point is that human beings can engage in illegal actions, but to call humans themselves illegal is not only dehumanizing and often racist, but simply logically wrong.
I'd say nice try, but... it wasn't really.
Egad, what rubes...
Pontius Patrick gets all teary eyed and you dolts actually buy his crap? His Mr. Rogers "we the Commonwealth" schtick is getting old. I'm still waiting for ANY of his campaign promises to bear fruit. I'm not surprised that a classic doctrinaire leftist spouts these platitudes, (from the 77 acre Sweet Pea Farm). I'm just surprised that anyone old enough to vote believes them.
Pontius Patrick
Do I have your permission to use that over and over and over again? And then once more after that.
done
mazel tov.
There is
plenty of housing capacity on Beacon Hill.
I'm thinking Louisburg Square
You know, that place that used to have the fire hydrant in front of it?
As long as
none of them need to get around in wheelchairs.
*runs away*
What will get me is
What will get me is when it comes out that this thing will cost us (I'm guessing) $75,000 - $100,000 per kid to house and process them.
I can see the need for compassion, but that seems to be how the guv'mint does things.
As for these kids fleeing violence and applying for asylum: why now? Has there been a flare-up of violence throughout CA just this month? And if so, why hasn't that been in the news? If it's the same violence that's been there all along for years, why weren't these kids coming last year? Something about that storyline doesn't smell right.
Where is the message coming from?
All of these kids and other aspirants are being told that the gates are open to immigration if you make it across border.
This seems new. Cynic that I am, I wouldn't doubt right wing conspiracy driving this to undermine Obama.
(And I could see a similar thing happening from the left to undermine a Republican prez, so spare me the partisan nonsense!)
i admit I haven't followed this issue deeply. Where's this message coming from?
check online for the bank shootout yesterday in Stockton
"Nortenos" used a young mother as a human shield after kidnapping her. The border states are turning into Mad Max with gang members importing social ills from Central America.This is like taking your little kid's toys and clothes and giving them all away to the poor. Well intentioned perhaps but really stupid, naive and unproductive.
So the "right-wing conspiracy
So the "right-wing conspiracy" has obviously taken hold of Patrick and forced him to make the offer to take these people in to undermine Obama as well?