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This time, it's just a warning
By adamg on Tue, 09/09/2014 - 9:55am
Matt Hrono reports T workers were handing out these "tickets" at red lights along Huntington Avenue this morning.
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Comments
I did not know
Now I know. I also know if I ever stop for a trolley in the future, I will have a line of angry Massholes behing me leaning on their horns. . How about signage on the train? Better yet signage at the stops.
There are bright yellow signs
There are bright yellow signs at all the stops along the street E route that tell drivers that they have to stop for stopped trains when the doors are open by law. The train doors are painted red with a giant "STOP" on them that faces traffic when they are open, and when open they also have blinking lights around the "STOP" just like a school bus. AND the train bell goes off like crazy the entire time the doors are open. I ask honestly -- what more can they really do? Other than pass out reminder flyers like they were apparently doing this morning...
If I remember correctly...
...the "accordion" doors had paint or decals reading
S
T
O
P
!
when the doors were open.
Maybe the trains should be equipped with extra-long versions of those yellow barriers the school buses have!
You are correct. The doors
You are correct. The doors also say "STATE LAW" on them too IIRC.
Edit:
STATE
S
T
O
P
LAW
People stop for trolleys all
I used to live at Brigham Circle. People stop for trolleys all the time over there. Occasionally they don't and that's why these reminders are needed. You're not going to have "angry Massholes" leaning on the horn because you're stopping for a trolley. You're very likely not going anywhere quickly on Huntington or S. Huntington anyway. Stopping for a train is not the end of the world.
Signage at the stops
Great Idea! Like this?
Maybe they could make the
Maybe they could make the signs a little smaller, and out-of-the-way, and shrink the text down a little.
signage
There is signage at the stops, as well. Although with the cluster of street signs around that area I can understand why someone would have object blindness.
Is that why traffic was so horrific this morning?
Heading east to the Longwood Medical Area was a nightmare this morning. I agree with what they were doing in principle, but logistically it sure screwed things up.
No
The problem was that too many people were attempting to drive cars through the area.
A functioning transit system
A functioning transit system would help. Most days I take the commuter rail from hyde park, which is great when it works (and it works far better than the red line which I took for years when I used to work near south station). When it breaks down, I join the others driving into town, including driving on Huntington, which is terrible for everyone (car drivers, trolley drivers, bicyclists and even pedestrians). An unreliable transit system leads many into their cars.
That's true every day. The
That's true every day. The traffic was much worse than usual this morning.
Bravo, MBTA.
Reminders are definitely warranted along that route. Interesting, though, that the wording ("It's against the law to pass a stopped trolley") makes it seem like it would apply to the B line, too.
I'm guessing that it wouldn't apply because the B-line tracks are in the dedicated median, right? But I can imagine drivers getting a bit confused by the wording.
Anyway, I applaud the effort to educate drivers. I hope they hand them out to bike riders, too
E line only
No, it doesn't apply on the B or C line because both of those lines have platforms at every stop. For that matter, it only applies on the E line for the stops between Fenwood Road and Heath Street, where the streetcar stops are right on the street, with no passenger platform.
Bike riders
Yes, they need to pass them out to bicyclists as well, including those who insist on interpreting "it's legal for a bicyclist to pass traffic on the right" as "it's legal to pass a bus on the right that is at a stop, boarding and discharging passengers."
Oh, get a hobby.
Oh, get a hobby.
???
Excuse me?
Good
Living near the VA Hospital, I felt like it was only a matter of time before I got smoked by a Range Rover as I stepped off the train. People truly dont care about the T.
Why not actual tickets? Why
Why not actual tickets? Why are drivers such special snowflakes that when they break the law they are just told, shucks, could you try not to do things that kill people and are illegal, or we might give you another fake ticket.
Because...
Anyone can hand them out. Tickets require additional levels of authority (BTD, BPD, or TPD).
Better warn everyone than
Better warn everyone than write one person a ticket while a dozen others get away. Why should one person, chosen at random, get an expensive ticket while everyone else continues on their way? Other drivers won't know what the reason for the stop is, and the stop is likely to block a traffic lane and/or bike lane.
Yes, there are signs about the law on Huntington, but they're easy to miss and the lettering is small. Larger "DO NOT PASS STOPPED TROLLEY" signs would be better noticed.
B line
I'd like to get guidance on the B line as well. Some of the T passengers treat it as though the cars are supposed to stop but most of the cars don't. I'm never sure as a driver and concerned that even if I stop, I'm only luring them out to get hit in another lane. Does anyone know what is supposed to happen there?
Marked crosswalks?
Aren't there marked crosswalks (at least - I believe in many/most cases lights as well) at all of the B Line stops? Cars are supposed to stop for pedestrians using a marked crosswalk.
However, since the B and C line stops are all at dedicated platforms in the middle of the road, set off from street traffic, the law about stopping for any stopped streetcar does not apply.
Lack of crosswalks
Comm Ave doesn't have any unsignalized crosswalks (across it) near BU or Allston, that I can think of. Naturally when people get off the train they want to head in the most convenient direction. The designers of existing Comm Ave never bothered to think about that in the past, mostly because it was the bad old days when they never thought about pedestrians anyway. Most people just walk along the tracks and cross when it's clear, following the desire lines.
By law, new stations are supposed to have multiple egresses. Like BU East. That would mostly take care of the issue, having two (signalized) crosswalks, one at each end. Somehow they got away with reconstructing BU Central with only one egress though, not sure why that was allowed.
I would like to see smaller blocks / more crosswalks / traffic calming along the reconstructed Comm Ave next year. Fact is, passenger counts on the Green Line outnumber car counts, and the number of people walking up and down the street nearly does as well. The street should be much more pedestrian focused than the current "Auto Mile"-style design that remains from the old days. At least the sidewalks are fairly wide, currently, although if the city has their way, they would be cut down in size to accommodate left-turn lane pockets...
P.S. To answer that question, the "state 'stop' law" as discussed in this thread does apply only to street-running trolleys.
Cars don't *have* to stop
Though hitting a pedestrian is generally frowned upon. (If not much more than that!) My experience (solely as a pedestrian) is that at the stops where there isn't a fence, people will generally try to cross whenever and wherever they see a break in traffic- basically, standard jaywalking.
According to the "ticket"...
It is against the law.
Unless your being sarcastic and the reference is similar to "don't *have* to stop at red lights" or something. :)
Nicole is correct; the flyers are incorrect
The cited law doesn't say you have to stop. It says you have to stay 8 ft away from the step, when passengers are loading/unloading. If you can pass safely with 8 ft of clearance, then go for it.
The cars also have little tiny "stop" signs on the doors, but I don't know what law would make those meaningful. Can I put a stop sign on my own car?
The bit about license revocation isn't right either
If they're relying on MGL 90-14 for the bit about license revocation, then that's wrong too. The license revocation is for people who pass school buses, not trolleys (or "street railway" cars, as the law calls them).
It's pretty sketchy for anyone other than a police officer to be handing out "traffic violation" notices, especially when the information is downright wrong.
There is absolutely NO way
There is absolutely NO way for any moving vehicle to maintain a distance of 8' from a stopped train on Huntington or S. Huntington.
Maybe if there were no parked cars you could
But in general I think you're right, you'd be hard-pressed to find 8' of clearance.
I was referring to the B line...
A center reservation where the platform is in the middle of the road is legally different from a street-running trolley where the platform is the sidewalk, I believe...
The platform is not the
The platform is not the sidewalk. The E-line tracks after Brigham Circle on Huntington and S. Huntington are the ones closest to the center. |___|_ll_||_ll_|___|
The "ll"s represent the tracks
"platform"
I suppose I should have said "the closest thing to a platform"... I live on Huntington Avenue and am well aware of the street configuration :)
Depends on which side of the street.
If you are traveling the same direction as the trolley, you are required to stop.
This is NOT the case if you are on the other side of the road. More and more the problem is with passengers who get off the train and do not proceed to the side walk, but turn left in front of the train and cross the double yellow line. This is jaywalking and dangerous.
The pedestrian is unlikely to get a ticket, and you are required to yield to them. If you don't see them, it will still be your fault if you hit them.
Drive carefully...
state law
Cars & cyclists are supposed to stop for pedestrians at any crosswalk NOT at a traffic control signals/lights. State law. Though Boston drivers don't observe it, Cambridge drivers tend to because the law is enforced more. or if you're driving in Cambridge, it's highly advisable.
Though a good number students, esp in harvard square, seem to think the pedestrian right of way applies to them at crosswalks AT traffic lights (so cars & cyclists are evidently supposed to stop on Green Lights?) and mid-block of course. Coz, it's logical.
Only yesterday I watched two
Only yesterday I watched two cars blow by a stopped trolley with the doors open and lights blinking at the corner of Huntington and South Huntington while the first passengers were just about to get off. Clearly the reminders are needed!
Did they actually read the statute?
Not sure they're reading this correctly.
Here's the reference to trolleys: "In approaching or passing a car of a street railway which has been stopped to allow passengers to alight from or board the same, the person operating a motor vehicle shall not drive such vehicle within eight feet of the running board or lowest step of the car then in use by passengers for the purpose of alighting or boarding, except by the express direction of a traffic officer or except at points where passengers are protected by safety zones."
Here's a link to the full law: https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXIV/Chapter90/Sect...