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Report: Boston school system becoming segregated again
By adamg on Thu, 11/13/2014 - 9:48am
A report commissioned by Boston Public Schools finds that even in a system where most students are now black or Hispanic, the deck is still stacked against those students - in particular, boys:
Inequities in opportunities for enrollment in rigorous learning environments - for example, AWC, exam schools, and the MassCore curriculum - for Black and Latino males, and for placement in the least restrictive environments for Black and Latino males with special needs, has led to a bifurcated system with two tracks: one with the greatest learning opportunities, in which White and Asian males are substantially overenrolled, and another with diminished educational opportunities, disproportionately populated by Black and Latino males. Black and Latino males in BPS do not have the same K-12 opportunities as White and Asian males, which translates into lower lifelong prospects, including restricted college and career opportunities.
BPS says it's already taking steps to address the issue:
In 2006 the drop-out rate among African-American students in BPS was 10 percent. Since then we have cut it by more than half, to 4.5 percent. For Latino students, in 2006 the drop-out rate was 11 percent. We have since cut it to 5.2 percent. Although these are the lowest levels we have ever recorded, we can and must do so much better.
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Comments
This starts at home. The
This starts at home. The parents have to take an interest in their child's education even if its just making them do their homework.
The learning environment is ruined in so many schools by out of control, misbehaving kids, and the teachers hands are tied with what to do with them.
This whole thing with dropout rates, its all for show. Who are they encouraging to stay in school? The same disruptive students that are ruining it for the rest? Let them go!
Right
So, if your parents are uneducated, working three jobs, don't speak English well, and fear authority, you should be punished for that.
If you win the birth lottery and get parents who are fluent, engaged, literate, educated, and know how to advocate for you, you should be rewarded for that.
Okay. Just be honest about it if that's the world you want to live in.
Every educated family has
a generation which was the first to go to college. It doesn't take someone with a PhD to value hard work and an education. Its called the American Dream, when someone want their kids to have opportunities which they didn't. Unfortunately a lot of parents just don't give a shit.
Correct
You are absolutely right that there are a lot of parents who are either incapable, or just don't care enough, to make sure their kids get a good education and move up in the world. That is why those kids deserve a school system (and a system of other services) that will do for them what their parents can't or won't. That is the solution.
Well then what's wrong with BPS
And don't say money - the operating budget alone is close to $1 billion or almost $20k per student, one of the highest in the nation (and even more than most of the wealthiest communities in Mass).
What services does BPS not offer that they should - and with the school budget taking up 1/3 of Boston's budget - if you propose increasing expenses - what do we cut to pay for this. Or what do we tax (and don't say PILOT - because that's just wishful thinking).
Personally I'd start by cutting 6 city councilors (and give the remaining ones their raises), but that's not going to happen either. 8-(
What do we fix
I don't necessarily disagree with you that money is not the issue. From the reports and studies I have read, there seems to be relatively broad acceptance that the BPS central office, which essentially dictates how the individual schools are run, is very disfunctional, and likely does not spend the available resources as wisely as it should. However, the mere fact that $1 billion is alot of money in the abstract does not necessarily mean that it is sufficient to properly run a major urban public school system with extremely needy kids. As to where I would get extra money (assuming it was warranted) - that is simple. I would raise property taxes or, better yet, create a separate school tax (as some communities have) that would be used solely to fund the schools. Considering that a well educated population is more likely to have lower poverty rates, lower crime rates, higher income and, generally speaking, a better understanding of their democratic and civic obligations, I think education is probably the best and highest use of our tax dollars and that we don't focus nearly enough of our money on it to begin with.
How about
We make it easier for schools to expel the troublemakers? Right now, disruptive individuals who make learning impossible for the rest of the students are kept in class at all cost, regardless of the extremely negative impact they have on their school and their fellow students. Wouldn't it make more sense to sacrifice one to save the other 99 instead of sacrificing the 99 to save one who will most likely end up in jail anyway? It doesn't take much - one or two thugs can easily ruin education for hundreds of other kids in the school.
Where do you think the
Where do you think the trouble makers you want to expel go? To the streets? Why can't we work on helping those kids out so we don't throw them out just to assure that they end up educationless and on a path so narrow it makes it even more likely they will turn to crime? Fine, if keeping them in class doesn't work, come up with an alternative. Boston doesn't even have a vocational program worth a damn right now, so there's one place to start.
Kids who can't handle being stuck at their desks for 8 hours or who act up because of other problems should have alternatives, especially alternatives that let them learn a useful trade or get exposure to options that will keep them occupied, not thrown out on their butts.
(But don't under-value vocational programs)
I agree that students who have major behavior issues in regular classrooms could go into alternative programs that work better for them.... including career-oriented programs. But I disagree about describing a vocational education system as an "alternative" pathway for students who don't succeed in regular classrooms.
Skilled trades are so important in the current economy, and vocational education is so valuable, that the city's vocational schools and programs should be among the "first choice" options for talented and motivated students. Graduates of vocational programs around the state go on to careers in skilled trades or on to 2-year and 4-year colleges in related fields. (i.e. -- graduates of an electrical program going on to a union apprenticeship or going on to study electrical engineering or electronics in college. Or on to something unrelated, since a vocational program also includes the core academics that allow a student to pursue any college program.)
Also -- vocational education includes a much wider range of fields now than in the past. Not only construction trades but also a variety of technology, medical, design & other fields.
Back to the idea of creating top-quality options for all students -- strong vocational programs need to be an important part of the top tier of programs for Boston students.
And no sports to speak of either.
It sounds kind of counter-intuitive to focus on sports rather than academics but the state of school sports in the BPS is appalling. Especially when we're talking about keeping boys engaged at school--how on earth do we have such crappy or nonexistent facilities? Why does it seem as if parents have to fight for every inch of playground space or soccer field? When these kids go out to Newton or Dover-Sherborn that's what they notice. I'm no jock myself but I've always thought that an investment in these resources would pay off hugely in terms of engagement, health, opportunities to learn discipline and leadership, and to give kids more of a chance to burn off energy that tends to be misdirected otherwise.
Good place to start
In the central office. Personally I'd make a longer school day (and sorry teachers - no more $$$ for that - not asking you to work longer - just asking you to reallocate your time). I had to take a very demanding professional exam a couple of years ago - and despite a good academic record, there was no substitute for many hours with my nosed tucked in a book and repeating the necessary "incantations" to memorize all the lists I needed to keep track of. More hours in school helps because a) they are in a controlled environment and b) maybe they'll be that much more tired with less time for shenanigans when they get out.
More property tax in Boston is DOA - a) the schools have plenty of money - as discussed - and don't want to draw attention to it by saying we need more b) only about 5% of households have kids in the schools - they aren't going to approve that. Schools already absorb almost 50% of operating costs in the city.
Most people are barely keeping their heads above water as it is and if you sock them with more property taxes they won't be happy (to say nothing of hurting the all important resale value of their homes).
Let's stop pretending that
Let's stop pretending that every child who wants to succeed can simply succeed.
Being able to do well enough in high school to be accepted into a college requires more than good old grit. Sometimes it requires parents who have the time and ability to navigate BPS to guarantee that their child gets what he/she needs. It requires a student who has the desire to do well AND the ability to block out all the negative things BPS middle and high schools have to offer. It often requires a special teacher to reach out and help a struggling student. But absent of those things, many of these kids have a uphill battle, a battle many cannot win.
And let's stop pretending that every immigrant who comes to BPS becomes valedictorian, because most don't. Some do very well but many more struggle and struggle and fail. This is hard stuff if your family doesn't happen to fall into the great middle class 2-parent category.
You shouldn't be punished for
You shouldn't be punished for it, but at the same time, we're asking the schools to work miracles and then when they don't, they're blamed for it. Placing an importance on education begins at home.
My father worked two jobs when we were young. Believe me, he would have gladly taken on a third (ass-whooping) if we had started slacking off at school.
The disruptive students
The disruptive students consist of English speaking Americans that have a parent at home at least some of the time, or at least an extended family that can care for them or watch them if that is what was first in their mind.
Students being hurt by the disruptive behavior include first generation poor non-English speaking parents. The quiet ones always get looked over and if they fear authority, then most certainly they fear speaking up to a future gang banger in the making who comes to class more for socializing than learning.
BPS graduate, I saw it and lived it.
Why is it that immigrants who
Why is it that immigrants who come here from China and Eastern Europe almost invariably achieve significant success, while urban minority populations overwhelmingly do not? Or immigrants from African nations?
These are immigrants who in many cases are at a tremendous disadvantage given no language skills, etc. and yet they leave most of the legacy U.S. minority urban populations in the dust.
Maybe instead of blaming institutionalized barriers we could blame the pervasive culture of underachievement in these areas where street cred is 50x more important than getting good grades and working hard in school? Maybe we can start holding urban communities accountable instead of coddling them by placing blame on everyone else?
"culture of underachievement"
"culture of underachievement" = 21st Century version of "lazy and shiftless".
Exactly
Do these ranters really think African-Americans, as a whole, don't care about education?
Really?
It's what their mommas teach
It's what their mommas teach them:
"Now honey, you could stay in school, get a job, and stay out of jail. But what's really important is STREET CRED!"
Stupid snark aside, you
Stupid snark aside, you genuinely don't believe that these communities have a problem with parental involvement, emphasis on education, and celebrating achievement rather than telling high achieving youth that they are "too white"? Is that right?
I think "these communities"
I think "these communities" (i.e. "those people") are actually extremely diverse in terms of their attitudes towards parenting and schooling. Why don't you ask your black friends what they think?
To expand on this a little:
None of the black people I know had a problem with parental involvement.
None of the black people I know valued "street cred" over educational achievement.
None of the black people I know think that being "too white" is worse than being dumb, ignorant or unemployed.
By contrast, I knew plenty of shit-for-brains white people when I was growing up on the North Shore who thought that "reading is fun to mentals", that smart people were losers, and that the most important thing in life was to be good at sports.
Ah ha, so because none of the
Ah ha, so because none of the black people you knew demonstrated this, and because all the stupid whities you knew did, that must mean my argument is false. Brilliant.
Look, you can think whatever you want and you can certainly ignore the groups that urban communities SHOULD be benchmarking themselves to. That's fine. Just don't be surprised when these same questions are being asked in 30 years when nothing has changed.
But at least you'll know that you succesfully inserted your politically correct BS into the argument and insinuated that anyone with a dissenting opinion is a racist through your clever "those people" quote.
insinuated that anyone with a
Just offering a few counterexamples to your pulled-out-of-your-ass claim that "these communities" have a "culture of underachievement" (if you know what I mean, wink wink). The dumb white people were just the icing on the cake, to point that that the only time I ever experienced an actual "culture of underachievement", it was in towns with an average of one black family apiece.
It doesn't prove anything; they're just anecdotes, but it's more than you've offered.
Not everyone; just you. You're the one who's posting this garbage. Own it.
Uh huh. Keep putting
Uh huh. Keep putting politically correct BS ahead of the potential for change. It has done wonders so far. Clearly.
...
"Why is it that immigrants who come here from China and Eastern Europe almost invariably achieve significant success, while urban minority populations overwhelmingly do not? Or immigrants from African nations?"
Because of racism.
Seriously?
Seriously?
Your response lack nuance, Swirrly
My parents were Vietnamese boat people. My dad never finished high school from a country that wouldn't count in the US for an education anyways. For the first years, my parents didn't understand enough English to know that there a free lunch program to enroll. It didn't stopped my parents to finding a way to reach a reasonable business today (with decent enough English to handle the English speaking customers). It didn't stop my brother to entering and finish college and continuing to pursue more education. It didn't stop me from entering and graduating from my school 3 years ago.
It's not to say there's isn't a point in noting in there's a difference between starting from home plate and 1st base or 3rd base. But you noted the difference is caused by having parents who speaks little-to-no English, little money, multiple jobs, and lack of trust toward government (fear of authority as you say). But somehow a lot of us managed to figure something out. that means there's has to be some truth to the anon's post. Unless you want to counterargue that all the financial, educational, lingual, and parental disadvantages doesn't count because I'm Asian.
Unless you haven't noticed
Asian assimilation and success doesn't count. It flies in the face of the excuse makers arguement.
When Asians face the same institutional barriers that blacks
have faced for centuries, then you might be able to compare the two situations.
White House
Congress, State House, Fortune 500, Hollywood, the music industry, pro sports. I don't see asians on the radar of these institutions.
1776, 1865, 1964
All important dates on the road to equality.
What institutional barriers are there for today's 18 year old?
The differences?
RCK, Swirrly listed a list of causes that the issues are caused by parents having to work two jobs, poor ability to communicate in English, lacking education to pass onward, and mistrustful toward authority. On that basis, the two situations are comparable.
The difference I notice is
The difference I notice is that Asians don't seem to give a damn about anyone else. Oh, you don't like them? Yeah, they don't care.
You must of
forgot about the WWII Japanese internment camps.
Yeah the laws forbidding
Yeah the laws forbidding Chinese immigrants to marry Americans, Japanese internment, etc. really show how tolerant America has been to Asian immigrants.
Unless you haven't noticed
Trotting out stereotypes of "good immigrants" and telling stories about individuals does not refute well-established demographic realities about access and advocacy in government-run systems.
Pure Idiocy
So let me get this straight. We should ignore the well-documented and overwhelming successes of certain immigrant groups as we are trying to find reasons why urban minority communities continue to underachieve?
Because you are so convinced that it is just institutionalized racism and not other factors? Why are you so intent on immediately dismissing the conversation? Is it because you have absolutely no ground to stand on other than blaming the big bad "machine" for these ills?
I'll repeat the question I posed earlier. Why do so many immigrant groups with no inherent language skills come to this country and so decisively out-achieve youth in legacy inner-city communities? What makes them inherently more able to do this?
Do immigrants not face stereotypes and significant obstacles to achievement? Could the fact that their parents resoundingly make them bust their ass in school and sacrifice to provide an education have something to do with it? Or maybe because in a lot of cases, there are TWO parental figures who are very involved in their kids' lives?
I'm sure you will once again dismiss the above as "stereotypes" and "generalizations" but maybe you can get your head out of the sand and evaluate the real reasons for these disparities without the politically correct BS.
You clearly have no grasp of what the important pieces are
Not all immigrant communities do well.
Also, immigrants are a SELECT GROUP. These are the people who had sufficient drive and agency and social ability to pick up and move.
Have you ever even moved across the country? Do you realize what sort of resources - financial, psychological, and social - even that entails?
Look at second and third generation groups - notice anything?
Also, blacks were brought here to be slaves and still bear the legacy of that. It isn't worth explaining how that works to you, because you obviously have no grasp of it.
Who said ALL immigrant groups
Who said ALL immigrant groups do well? I certainly did not. My point is, instead of dismissing the success that certain immigrant communities TEND to have, maybe it's a decidedly better idea to benchmark those communities and examine WHY they are usually succesful. I assure you, it is not because the "system" is rigged in their favor.
See, I can capitalize things too.
As for me, I've lived in many parts of the country, thank you very much. In addition, 25 years ago to the day my parents brought me to this country with no money and no idea WTF they were going to do. And somehow they managed to put 2 kids through ivy league schools while busting their ass and pressing us to do the same all along the way.
And finally, yes, blacks were brought here to be slaves. It's an awful legacy and nothing can be done to change it. At the same time, Jews were slaughtered in the holocaust, plenty of other groups have endured horrid events, and yet somehow those events don't get brought up time and time again as an explanation for the sucesses or failures of those groups.
But oh my, that's not the PC thing to say is it? I'm probably a horrible racist scumbag.
Anecdotal evidence from
Anecdotal evidence from personal stories doesn't refute well-established demographic data. However, that also means the data only indicates there's a gap and a struggle within BPS. It does prove or disprove what anything said here. Pointing out the cause is from what you listed overly dismisses other factors and elevates the listed factors too much - as if they were the only factors, myself as a person and my demographic would be in the same shape
Yet, to my understanding, my demographic despite have parallel issues, but have made good progress in many arenas to at least have a good standard quality of life even if we are not success equally on every area - this needs to be explained if you going to dismiss as unrelated.
So, explain why the girls are
So, explain why the girls are doing better than boys--at least according to this report.
What advocacy in government run
systems have held asians back?
Ever been to Lowell?
What do you see there - who is living in the projects in the Acre?
What do I see in Lowell?
Jim Mรคrzilli.
I assume you're talking about
I assume you're talking about the large Cambodian and Vietnamese population in Lowell? They do quite well educationwise.
It'd be impossible to spend any time in the BPS
and not observe the truth of what you're saying. My kid's AWC class was notably packed with first-generation immigrant kids from Asia, Africa, Eastern Europe and Latin America. Many parents were working multiple jobs and many had very limited English skills. The differences between the kids who stuck it out and those who didn't seemed largely tied to parental pressure, support and expectations but the social pressure put on the black and Latino kids in AWC by their friends in regular ed was phenomenal and sometimes brutal. I also remember one girl who had gotten into an exam school saying that her parents didn't want her to go because she'd "have to work too hard." That kind of blew my mind.
God, I hope that young woman
God, I hope that young woman had a mentor or some other adult in her life who could help her sort our her parents' crazy messages. What kind of community does that to their children?
In my experience teaching in
In my experience teaching in a public high school, immigrants make some of the best parents because they have respect for teachers.
Home 2 School School 2 Home
Everything starts at home. However, children spent upwards of 6 hours in school, entrusted to the teaching community at-large. Teachers/administrators are responsible for educating students academically and socially. No one else can do a parent's job. BUT THERE IS A DIRECT CONNECTION BETWEEN HOME AND SCHOOL. Parents for the most part do the best they can. Unfortunately, parents cannot control how their children conduct themselves, although I am sure most parents want to believe their children will not shame the family name. Peer pressure, pop culture, and complacent teachers protected by powerful unions ALSO contribute to the academic and social detriment of today's youth.
To simply say, it starts at home is a skewed, OUTDATED perception of reality. We all must do our part to shape and shift the mindset of wayward youth. Also, hold educators accountable for their apathy in the classroom while they count down the days until summer vacation.
So now it's "a problem" that
So now it's "a problem" that the children with behavioral issues and special needs are put in classes to specifically care for their behavioral issues and special needs?
Took me a couple of tries to parse that sentence
It's not the most clearly written sentence, but I believe the criticism is that, of the special needs environment, some are more restrictive than others, and access to the least restrictive environments is disproportionately made available to white students.
Made available
I don't have an easy answer, but I think this phrasing is bizarre - AWC isn't disproportionately being made available to white kids, white kids are disproportionately testing into it.
In the BPS, my experience was that the kids who need the most support, whether in structure or learning, dominate the teacher's time. If someone is acting up, the rest of the class has to sit there until that kid is sorted out by the teacher. Even the weighted funding formula reflects this- a kid which needs more support due to ESL or SPED or whatever, gets more funding from the BPS. That is the best available approach and I'm not arguing that some poor suffering middle-class white kid should have more funding allocated to them, but it's hardly a system where black and Latino kids who struggle with school aren't getting more resources made available.
To anyone who has a race card to play, please review the various test scores of the Brooke, a predominately black/Latino K-8 which has top 5 state-wide MCAS scores. This is not an issue of black kids vs. white kids but kids who have parents who care about their education and those who don't.
True but...
I'd also say that not enough parents are made aware of the AWC track when their kids are young. If you know about it or have the wherewithal to be choosy about your kids' early schooling, then you have a leg up already (and I say that as someone who went through AWC as a kid and as a parent). When it comes to the exam schools, it's already a whole different deal. So many private school kids--many of whom have had professional test coaching for the ISEE--flood the system at that point that it's like...game over. Which isn't to say they shouldn't have a shot, but it seems unfair to me to the kids who are coming from backgrounds where they don't have those kind of resources. Navigating the BPS is hard enough--there should be more support for parents and kids at an early age.
When not the correct type of service, yes
Black and Hispanic kids are underrepresented among children who are diagnosed with autism:
http://neurosciencenews.com/autism-health-disparities-minorities-1503/
The way I see this play out in my work, certain difficulties and behaviors are seen in white and Asian kids as signs of high-functioning autism or a related learning disability, and the family is recommended to get the child a full neuropsych evaluation to diagnose this. The exact same presentation in Black and Latino kids is viewed as "a behavior problem" or "due to environmental issues" and these kids are punished or funneled into behavior disorder classrooms instead of being assessed for autism and related profiles.
Look also at those studies showing that teachers and the public in general view Black children as older and more deserving of punishment for their behavior than white kids of the same age and with the same behaviors. A white kid's body is out of control? He has sensory issues and should work with an occupational therapist, sit on a squishy cushion during class, have the teacher remind him to calm down, be assessed for autism and related disorders. A Black kid's body is out of control? He's violent and should be punished. I see this every day.
By segregated
Do you mean by test scores? Because the notion of making exceptions for any individual base on their skin color is racist in it self.
Some kid does better than someone else, they should be accepted into said program/school, regardless of race.
Frustration
Although this report has done a good job of documenting the disparity in the racial make-up of BPS advanced placement and non-advanced placement students, it, like every other BPS report I have seen to date, fails to analyze the question that actually matters - why? Or, more importantly, to answer the question - what can we do to change this? The report documents that BPS kids are selected for advanced placement work in 4th grade based on their academic performance at that point, and are then subsequently selected for exam-school placement based on academic performance and standardized testing. It then also documents that the divergence in racial make-up starts in the 4th grade. It never gets to the issue of why that is the case and, rather, seems to suggest that the "solution" to this problem is simply to make advanced work classes more available to black and latino students. But this begs the question of whether they are suggesting that the standards by which students are evaluated for such placement in the 4th grade are flawed (which they do not appear to analyze) or whether they are suggesting that simply by relaxing those standard or getting rid of them (thus providing all students advanced placement work) this would solve the educational problem. Time and again, BPS commissions these reports to study the racial disparity in the school system, and time and again the reports fails to get at the "why." It would seem from the data presented that the "why" lies mostly in the socioeconomic status of these students at the time they reach 4th grade. Simply put, poor kids are much less likely to be selected for advanced placement in 4th grade and also are far more likely to be black or latino. If this is the case (and I would really like to know if my hunch is right) then doesn't the solution lie somewhere in figuring out how to bring kids from low socioeconomic backgrounds up to the same level of knowledge/learning as kids from high socioeconomic backgrounds by the 4th grade? Don't they deserve it, and wouldn't we all be much better off if that could be done?
Amen.
There are complicated underlying issues here and it would be wonderful to see how they could be addressed. The tracking that begins in 4th grade with the AWC classes and ends with the exam schools is the raison d'รชtre for a lot of ambitious parents to keep their kids in the BPS but it does create a huge divide. And there are so many kids who don't have the chance to be prepared for that big leap or don't have the social and academic support to maintain it if they do get on that track.
Rally downtown today
I attended a rally at fanueil hall this morning with 2,000 other parents and students calling for great schools for every child. There are 77,000 kids in the state of Massachusetts attending a school that has been deemed failing by the state. That is not an okay!
We live in a state with the best universities in the world and we arent preparing all of our students to go to college?
The system has been broken for decades. When are we going to say enough is enough and place some priority on our kids? You want crime rates to go down? Invest in education!
"everyone must go to college" thinking has to end
There is a Harvard science prof in my neighborhood who would strongly disagree that "every kid should be prepared to go to college".
He's sending one of his to a trade school, because that is what he is best at. There are plenty of skilled jobs that don't require college education.
Part of the problem with college inflation and with kids who don't know why they are in college is this mentality that everyone should go to college. I know at least half a dozen kids, most with siblings in top universities, most with highly educated parents, who are NOT going to college because it is NOT the best place for them to go.
The best education isn't always a college preparatory education. The best education is the one that prepares a student for the life that works best for them after high school. Besides - somebody needs to fix cars, do plumbing and electrical work, etc.
I tell this to every parent who will listen.
When it costs $85 just to get a plumber to come to your dwelling to assess a problem, there must be some opportunity there.
Meanwhile, in my supposedly highly remunerated "profession", all of the talk continues to be about cost-cutting and freebies, after many (particularly newcomers) in this field paid well over a quarter million dollars to get the necessary degrees just to be here.
I don't think that this is too atypical across many fields - the returns on a college education, particularly those offered by less well-regarded ones, continue to diminish (but I realize they are still positive). It is just that the risk profile has changed markedly, and that's what many parents (particularly Boomers) don't realize (my guess is because in their generation, college used to be something close to a guarantee of success).
absolutely right. also,
absolutely right. also, plenty of plumbers, auto mechanics and electricians can and do make more than some liberal arts graduates taking bureaucratic post-college jobs at State Street or Fidelity (I'm not suggesting all jobs there bureaucratic or mindless, but there are certainly a few), and the skilled plumber, electrician or mechanic won't be burdened with unsupportable 100k+ in educational debt. you're right, too, about the fact that this mindset only further inflates college enrollment, and this demand only allows colleges to further hike tuition, and our government to further subsidize them, with horrific student debt.
Everyone should be able to go to college
I never said that everyone had to go to college. But if you are a child in Boston, you should be able to choose your profession, not have it chosen for you. And if a child wants to go to college, their primary education should be an asset toward their goals, not a detriment.
something you are missing here
As the parent of teenagers, there is something you probably don't know about the whole "everybody go to college" thing.
It isn't often stated as being optional, and many high school counselors simply do not know what to do with students who are not college bound.
Add to this: counting coup. My son's counselor was pissed that he didn't want to apply to any "reach" schools. I pointed out that he didn't want to go to any of those schools, so why the hell should he apply? Turns out it didn't have anything to do at all with what he wanted - it was all about her stats.
That is the problem - it is all about the stats for a counselor or a school, not about what is best for the student. They love to count how many kids go on to four-year colleges - that's their success metric. Unfortunately, this has shit-all to do with how many kids drop out, don't want the debt, or leave because it simply doesn't work for them. No. By that time, they've been counted in the "win" column. That's all these people care about when they say "every kid to college". It isn't about the success or lifetime success of the kids in the least. It is about the egos of administrators.
Beware.
I'm guessing you don't live in Boston...
Its assumed of too many kids in Dorchester, Roxbury and Mattapan that they won't go to college. So, just because you had this experience doesn't mean that this is the experience that everyone has.
You think its terrible that your son's guidance counselor wanted him to be more ambitious in his college applications to pad his stats. Imagine if your son's school was just passing him from grade to grade to pad their high school graduation rates and he graduated from high school barely able to read.
The 1970s called
Why Johnny Can't Read is waiting for you at the reserve desk, next to the card catalogue.
Seriously - what decade is this? You CANNOT graduate from high school if you can't read. This little test called MCAS will stop you.
You'd know that if you had a kid in school anywhere.
A lot of the same happens in BPS too though
Schools work so hard on getting as many kids as possible "going to college." What this means is being admitted to a college. Schools aren't focusing on having the skills to succeed in college, being enrolled in a college that has a program that interests the student and leads to some type of feasible career track, or even being guided through the financial aspects so that the student actually enrolls.
You might be surprised how many young adults in the city living in poverty and raising children in poverty have a bachelor's or associate's degree that doesn't lead to any sort of employment in this area. Many of my parent friends who are barely making ends meet through work or public assistance have a degree in criminal justice or business, or a certificate as a medical assistant or technician. These fields are oversaturated here. There are very few jobs, and the ones that do exist have inflexible hours. These parents are saying they wish they had learned plumbing or doing nails or something, or even worked their way up to be a manager at a store or in an office or something like their friends who didn't go to college.
Right on, Swirls , give me a
Right on, Swirls , give me a union book any day !
The rally was
organized by an out of state organization (recently opened a branch in Mass. -- aren't we lucky?) called Families for Excellent Schools. They are a pro-charter organization who have deemed it their mission to "improve" the "failing schools" in our state (that's any school that MA Dept of Education has deemed a Level 3 or higher, which includes some highly chosen schools in Boston because it's all based on MCAS scores). This is in Massachusetts, whose K-12 schools rank #1 in the US.
Here's a blog post explaining who they are and where they get their funding from.
http://deutsch29.wordpress.com/2014/10/18/an-investigation-into-nys-fami...
They claim to be a grass roots organization but I haven't heard of one person from Mass. who is involved in it, especially parents.
Of course you haven't heard of one person...
You're not a charter school parent. There are many charter school parents who are big supporters of their schools who do in fact organize and attend rallies. You have kids in the BPS, so you are interacting with a different group of parents. I don't know a single person in the Weymouth school district, but that doesn't mean I don't think the parents there aren't involved in their school. Most Brooke families are, I believe, from Dot, Roxbury, Mattapan, not Roslindale - do you know a lot of people in those neighborhoods? I don't so I don't presume to speak for them.
I don't want to sidetrack this discussion into a charter v. public discussion so I'll just reiterate my point made above- there are lots of kids succeeding in the Brooke charter schools currently, mostly non-white. Maybe those kids would also succeed in the BPS but the point is it is not really a race/ethnicity issue.
Seriously
WHEN is this bullshit going to end? Everyone with half a brain know what the problems are, but political correctness doesn't allow honest and open discussion. The problem is not 'segregation' based on 'race', certainly not skin color.
People who self describe themselves as 'progressive' have had 40 years to implement their master plan(s)...apparently, they have failed. And please, if this is posted by Adam, and you choose to respond, don't lecture me about 'neocons', Republicans, Fox, the Herald, because I don't hold Republicans in higher regard vs Democrats, think neocons are traitors to this country, and very rarely read or watch Fox news and the Herald...or Globe and MSNBC for that matter. And I don't live in the 'suburbs', neither do I come from a middle class background.
People who self describe
Yeah, because if there's one thing that government has been amenable to over the last 40 years, it's implementing progressive ideas.
Call us when you decide to spend some time in reality.
Yeah it's actually the past
Yeah it's actually the past 90 years since Wilson was president.
This city and state
have been under basically one party rule, Democrat, HEAVILY influenced and reliant on 'progressives' for half a century, not including our middle of the road, socially liberal Republican governors who have always had to deal with Democratic controlled legislators. The federal government, REGARDLESS of Republican or Democratic president and/or house and senate control, takes 'civil rights' laws very seriously, as does the various branches of the judiciary, including state and US supreme courts. It is a total lie to say Boston and MA have not greatly favored 'progressive' ideas over the past half century, likewise our courts, which have consistently favored 'progressive' social engineering.
BTW, I put progressive in quotations not because I'm contemptuous of real progressives and progressive ideas, but because of how misused and co-opted it is by people I consider to be little more than opportunists and phonies.
Oh
For a second there, I thought you put "progressive" in quotes because the whole idea that Massachusetts is some progressive haven is kind of a lie when you look at who has controlled the purse strings in this state for most of the past 50 years - conservative Democrats like Tom Finneran, who, yes, have sometimes been more conservative than the Republican governors we like to elect as a sort of counterweight.
That is a bizarre reach even
That is a bizarre reach even for you. To blame Tom Finneran, who has been out of power for well over ten years, while Deval has had unchecked power for 8, is insane.
Pishtosh
I wasn't blaming Finneran for anything. I was responding to somebody who seemed to think progressives have run roughshod over Massachusetts for 50 years, which, even when Democrats controlled the legislature and the governor's office, wasn't true.
If you think the Democratic
If you think the Democratic party has anything to do with "Progressivism", you're still living in 1972 (or earlier).
honest and open discussion!
hooray!
why don't you start by telling us just what on earth you're talking about?
The solution is as obvious
as the nose on your face. Bus the kids from one side of the city to the other. It solves every social and societal ill one can imagine.
Something makes me think we
Something makes me think we already tried this idea.
Better idea
Bus the kids to the nearest wealthy suburb - not just the few hand-picked METCO kids, but all of them. After all, it's quicker to bus Mattapan kids to Miltion (and Milton kids to Mattapan) instead of schlepping them over to Charlestown. Let's see how that turns out.
Milton?
Wellesley and Dover.
Disentangle school district boundaries from city/town boundaries
I grew up in a state where there was an absolute legal mandate to economically desegregate the school systems. The way that was done was to set school district boundaries such that they would achieve economic balance, regardless of whether they matched municipal boundaries.
That meant that, even though my own parents never finished college and many of our neighbors never finished high school, I had access to very good schools. Those schools were good, in part, because I shared them with children of people who had a lot more influence over whether or not there were gifted and talented programs and the quality of special education.
Interesting idea. Just
Interesting idea. Just curious - which state? And is it really codified in some state statute or regulation? On a local level, doesn't Cambridge try to achieve economic integration, to the extent diversity of incomes still exists there?
Well.... busing solved at least one societal ill...
If there's a silver lining to the whole busing fiasco, it's that it encouraged the constituency that elected the likes of Dapper O'Neil to flee to whiter suburbs, thereby indirectly improving the quality of our city government.
BPS Graduate Here
I had immigrant parents, one of whom, did not finish high school until I was in grammar school. Home life was not perfect by any means and both my parents had to work to support themselves and my brother, many times with one parent away for awhile. There was drugs and mayhem on the streets around me but there was also neighborhood institutions, both private and public, that tried to help kids in the area. I did grades 1 to 6 at a Catholic school, only because I was to enter first grade in the teeth of the Wellesley imposed social engineering of the mid-70's.
I studied, got great grades in some classes, math, not so much. I have had a job since I was 15. I worked nearly 40 hours a week during college and 65 to 70 hours a week while in college to help pay my way. I have a nice house and a great family. I got all this through hard work, being generally respectful to others, and not crying foul because of the color of someone's skin.
I am sick to death of hearing about racism and segregation in the Boston Public Schools. There is no confidence in the schools because of the staff and leadership of the system and lack of parental involvement. You want to see the lack of confidence in the schools? Check out the Hingham commuter boat lot or a youth sports game in Cohasset. There us quite a collection of four to five year old Back Bay and South End parking stickers there.
A lot of bad teachers which I know from my wife's student teaching stories, and not being allowed to send your kid to the school a block from you because of what John Kerrigan and Co. did in the 60's and 70's is still messing up schools today. Good luck. I voted with my feet.
I am sick to death of hearing
Just what we need. Another white guy telling people of color to stop complaining and suck it up.
Thanks Scratchie
I'm telling a lot of white people to shut up as well. It is about the individual not the group. If I went with group think I would have a great Notre Dame tattoo on my arm and would have had a wonderful time last weekend drinking at the Post telling stores about hanging out in Hemmy Park when I was 15.
Please tell me more
About your extensive knowledge of racism, based on your personal experiences.
Piss Off
Sorry Scratchie, I have to work today to pay for my "privilege." Besides, I might get carpal tunnel from writing about my racism experiences which have been sent my way over the years.
Don't feed
the hypocrites. Just let them wallow in their failure for another 40 years.
Great.
We'll all head down to Cohasset and Hingham. That'll solve everything. You just invited all Boston residents with kids, didn't you?
Why doesn't BPS put
Why doesn't BPS put additional learning specialists in regular classrooms like Brookline does? This would seem to me to be one of the most obvious solutions to the segregation problem - plus teachers do better if they can focus on teaching, not discipline or spending most of their time on the handful of kids who need far more support than they can realistically give them. You have a spec-ed person following a group of kids around from class to class, they're going to do much better and won't slow down the rest of the class. the culture in BPS for so long has been about going after "bad" teachers - if we could only get rid of the bad teachers we'll be ok - but it really should be about supporting learning and finding better ways to help struggling kids.
Additional Learning Specialists
They have those at the BPS elementary schools my children have attended. Not sure if that's universal -- when I've served on site councils and approved the budgets, the specialists fell under some discretionary line items, so it's possible some schools would pursue other resources. I can see arguments pro and con, depending on the population served by the school.
This conversation always puts
This conversation always puts my stomach in knots. Many of these problems have to do with underlining racial issues. Many of the problems have to do with socio-economic issues. Most people do not want to or can't have the conversation necessary to solve our problems. It is too uncomfortable for all sides.
My kids go to charters schools. It was the absolutely best choice for our family for academic and safety reasons. Also, BPS was a behemoth that we just didn't want to deal with. That said, AWC will always be 'whiter' that the rest of BPS because based on my observations of kids in AWC, their parents (mostly white, higher incomes and higher education levels, strong academic involvement) enroll their children in BPS with the goal of entry into AWC by 4th grade or Latin by 7th grade. Everything they do is towards that goal. To the extent that doesn't work, the parents remove their kids from BPS. It is a strategy that works well for them. It always helps to start on 2nd or 3rd base.
More racial disparity in the suburbs
In Arlington, black students get out of school suspensions 11 times as much as white students. Winchester is 10 times, while Boston is only 3 times as likely/often (corrected for racial enrollment percentages). See others/data here: www.trupersons.com
Boy, those black kids have it
Boy, those black kids have it easy, huh?
The link you posted won't work so please supply a photo of your ass to indicate where these numbers originated.
No, no, please do not do that.
I do not want to see a picture of that ass.
What about Medford?
Medford would have far more statistical power to assess any disparities than Arlington or Winchester when it comes to black, multiracial, and African immigrant kids.
Is it any different in any other school district?
Is there any public school district in the country where blacks and Latinos outperform whites and Asians? Why make this into a Boston problem when it's national and cultural?
Because it's worth doing
We all benefit when everyone's children are educated to the best of their abilities so they can go on to be productive citizens.
Yes
But when you operate off of racial quotas and you dilute the entry into the few goods schools we have it benefits no one, not even the ones you're trying to help.
It's progressive politics at its worse.
Remarkable
~100 comments in a UH thread that doesn't even mention bike lanes.
Fewer yellow buses
means more room for bikes.