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Roslindale Square group seeks ordinance to limit chain stores and restaurants in neighborhood business districts
By adamg on Tue, 12/02/2014 - 9:48am
As Roslindale Village Main Street begins to fight against a proposed chain pet store, the group is beginning to seek city regulations that could cap the number of national stores and restaurants that could open in the city's neighborhood business districts.
Roslindale Village Main Street holds a meeting to talk strategy on keeping Petco Unleashed out of the South Street storefront being vacated by JB Edwards. The session, to which both Petco and city officials have been invited, starts at 7 p.m. at the Roslindale Community Center.
At the meeting, group officials will discuss a proposal for a formula business ordinance to set limits on just what sort of non-local "formula businesses," or chains, that can set up shop in the city's 20 Main Street districts:
With many Boston Main Street districts becoming increasingly attractive places to own property, operate a business, and set down roots, many of the very national chains and "big box" stores which once shunned these districts are now seeking to set up shop and call Main Streets “home.” While "big box" stores and national chains can serve an important development function in any business district, their unchecked proliferation can also destabilize and degrade business districts, driving out independent merchants and making neighborhood business districts feel uniform and soulless.
To preserve and reinforce the decades of "place-making" work that the Boston Main Streets program has won awards for, the time has come to put in place protections that will ensure that Boston’s neighborhood business districts continue to feel like special places with a strong sense of community. To that end, we propose that the City of Boston begin development on the next stage of the Main Streets program - Main Streets 2.0, if you will - and establish policies and guidelines which think of Main Streets as the places they are, not just the program that it has been.
Ironically, Roslindale Square has one of those big boxes - the Staples on Washington Street. However, unlike Petco Unleashed, that store does not compete against any locally owned businesses in the area.
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Comments
Good luck to the neighbors!
Good luck to the neighbors! It's nice to read about Bostonians who care about local small businesses.
Foot Traffic
While I agree that some sort of regulation of the over population of chain stores... so we don't become main streets of Banks, Starbucks, and Dollar stores.. not sure if their attitude is the right way to do that. The minute you start shutting out businesses (big or small), it makes you look anti business. And eventually you'll make it so tough that no small business will want to open (Ptown, MA comes to mind on this)
What these folks forget that is that while we'd like to think that small biz's will bring in foot traffic, they don't as much as a chain does. Hate to admit that but its true. What needs to happen is a good healthy balance. The chain stores bring in the foot traffic, and the small biz get the results they need from said foot traffic.
I know these two examples are of Market Basket and shopping malls, but the same idea prevails.
Picture it, Revere, 2010 @ Northgate mall. Sad mall. No foot traffic, even with some big name stores. Several boarded up and empty stores (Toys R US, ex-Stop & Shop, ex Friendlys). No real foot traffic. Fate of this mall seems dismal at best. Fast forward to 2014. Market Basket opens inside this mall. Foot traffic galore.
No it wasn't the small sewing shop that attracted people. Or even a bigger name big box store (Burlington Coat Factory) it was a supermarket that did. Now a good portion of the time, the parking lot is full, lots of people go in and out of stores. And from what I hear from my friends at the Journal, that sales are way up at the rest of the stores in the mall.
Same could be said about the Pre-2009 Mystic Mall in Chelsea. Dead Mall. DSM bought it, leveled it, modernized the mall, built their flagship store, and poof. Now a winning combination.
Its a combination of small and large businesses is the key. Not one or the other.
I agree with your first paragraph, but then...
I agree with your first paragraph - it seems very hard to make "pro-some-business" regs not cross the line into "anti-most-business" regs. But then you offer up the "chain stores attract foot traffic" canard - which your own Northgate example fails to show. The big chain stores already there were dying - it was a grocery store that made the difference. Much in the same way, the installation of a new, full-service (and independent) supermarket marked a milestone in the turnaround of Rosi Village sixteen years ago (h/t Michael K). In both cases it had nothing to do with the stores being/not being chains and everything to do with them being safe, affordable places to get the essentials of daily life.
With regards to Roslindale, the oft mentioned Staples is certainly useful for people who need to buy over-priced paper at the last minute (this father of a high-schooler raises his hand). But it's a real late-comer - the square was already back on its feet (booming by recession standards!) by the time the chain showed interest. And I'd make a hard bet that the store doesn't draw any appreciable traffic to other businesses in the Square. Non Roslindalers zoom in, use the Staples, and zoom off.
In fact, I'd say that both Roslindale Square and JP's Centre street are counter-examples to your hypothesis that small and large are both necessary for vibrant urban business districts. (And outside Boston proper but still in Boston urban metro, I'd add pre-90s Harvard Square (now nearly ruined by chains) and present-day Davis Sq.)
Pet Cabaret
So Pet Cabaret is attracting shoppers to the Square from 1/2 mile away? I'd also wager that with their TV ads and speciality offerings, they are in business because they are actually drawing people from outside of their immediate neighborhood as well maybe even (God help us all) non-Roslindalers.
I don't get why so much effort is being put into protecting this business, nice as it is. Competition is apparently OK for yoga studios, barbershops, and restaurants, but not the organic pet food store.
I never said any of that
You are the master of arguing with points not stated, Vaughn.
Clarification
You were stating that Staples doesn't really add anything to the shopping environment of the Square. I was pointing out that neither does Pet Cabaret.
I guess a basic question is whether people are against Petco specifically as perceived competition to Pet Cabaret or just because they are a chain. I.e. if Panera or Kinkos or Footlocker wanted to open, would the reaction be the same?
I have the perception that it's more the first driving this movement (and I may be wrong) and that bugs me. If you are simply against most chains, then yes, we are arguing different points.
i think my point was
the RIGHT chain store. I guess. Something that generates a ton of foot traffic. A supermarket does...
but you lose me at..
Safety is not an issue. I've never felt unsafe in a supermarket. Ever.
Affordable is key. See my comment below about rents in Broadway in Chelsea. In order to pay said high rents, higher costs of goods must be charged. Its a double edged sword. Everyone wants affordability, but the stores cannot offer low prices while paying such high rents. Sorry I've found very few non-chain markets that don't totally gouge you in order to make up for high rents.
I'm sorry small biz do not have the buying power of larger chains to provide low prices you've said are required for success. Until that changes, big box stores always win in price and selection. Always. And this is why people flock to those stores, rather than smaller ones.
There's a reason why WalMart is the nations top retailer.. and it's not because of its friendly employees...
Supermarket <> chain
Did you just intentionally miss the point? Not safety in the store - safety in the area surrounding the store. And that's exactly what was intended - and achieved - when the original Roslindale Main Streets program encouraged the creation of the Village Market.
Btw, while I agree that it's easy for big chains to undercut small competitors, I know plenty of small markets that don't gouge - that are, in fact, at least as affordable (and more convenient) than the mega-chains. Just keeping it around Rosi Square, the afore-mentioned VM is no gouger, and most of the smaller specialty markets around here aren't either - Quality Meats, Roslindale Fish Mkt, Droubi Brothers, etc. Even Tony's, who's offerings are high-end, meets - or beats - the prices you'd pay for top-quality prime meats (if you can find them) in the big chain markets.
And just because it's easier for large chains to pay big rents doesn't mean this is a sustainable model that we should continue to support. It's become pretty obvious that a lot of Walmart et al's success is a result of them paying below-sustaining wages and forcing the costs for those peoples' well-being onto us taxpayers.
Look around the country - has 40 years of increasing megastore domination of the marketplace helped the American middle class, or even the lower working class? I'm not saying that we should be micromanaging every new business that wants to start up, but large chains have a terrible track record of giving a shit whether actual people do well or suffer.
Look
I agree with you. I do. I agree with
Correct. I agree. But UNDERSTAND why this is happening. Working with landlords and building owners to attract businesses you way want and will patronize.
No I didn't because I don't feel that a supermarket provides any 'safety' at all. Not any more than a liquor store, nail salon, or porn shop does. HOWEVER... empty space vs supermarket. Yeah you do have a point.
Be careful of the parking lot
Be careful of the parking lot ATM over there dude !
Village Market
This seems like it has been around for ages -- but only opened in 1998. It will be a while until it hits its 25th anniversary. ;-}
generating foot traffic
doesn't have to be about chain stores, though - it can also be a transit hub (which roslindale has a potential of becoming if the orange line ever comes here), it can be bringing in a large employer (the square doesn't have enough commercial space) - and adding more residents within a small area.
The problem is there are already 3 other boutique pet stores within a mile of that location - and they're competing over a very small segment of the population in the immediate area. plus, a fancy petco is not something that generates foot traffic (like a grocery store does). I personally wish that we had the foot traffic to support all of these stores so that things could co-exist - but we really need the orange line to make that happen (and to a lesser extent, better bike infrastructure)- Roslindale isn't exactly very convenient if you're coming from more than a few miles away - and we really don't have room for more cars on our streets.
yeah
I'll expand and say that foot traffic doesn't have to come from other businesses. You're right. But typically business succeed in the "on the way home from work" syndrome.
For example... Milk. I am always buying Milk. I don't like running to Market Basket just to buy Milk. So I buy it at a market instead.
Where? Usually the Tedeschi's in Maverick Square. Why there? It's on the way home from work. I walk up the stairs from the station, out the door, cross the tiny street, and I am there. And cross the street again to catch the bus home. It's on the way home.
Same with my Market Basket example from below (that you or someone tried to debunk). Now people patronize the other businesses in that mall because .. well... they are already shopping at Market Basket, might as well run into CVS next door to get a script, or maybe some new shoes at Payless, or something else. Why? Its all within the same general area and people don't like making muliple stops.
Cybah, please enlighten us as
Cybah, please enlighten us as to what so-called (by you) "Anti-business" measures were taken in Provincetown by the Town, or anyone else, that "make it so tough that no small businesses will want to open." Right off the top of my head I can think of 4 independent, locally owned/operated business that have opened since 2010, and dozens in the last 15 years.
And to further throw water on your point, Provincetown has nothing but foot traffic. Please go there on virtually any day between Memorial Day and Labor Day and you will see the foot traffic generated in a town without big box stores to anchor the business district. The locally owned small business is exactly the reason people come to Provincetown.
Sure
And ask your friends how tough it was. Its tough. I know three separate friends who tried to open stores there and just gave up because of the red tape. Its not as easy as renting a space and loading it up with inventory as it is elsewhere.
Let me also state that *I* looked into it myself. I wanted to move there and move my personal business there. The only way I would have survived is with a retail store front. (walk in services) but when I started to look at the permitting, and what requirement the town had, I did not have the money to do so, nor really wanted to cowtail to a town just to open up there. I would have been better off opening a store front in my hometown in NH, with more pro business policies, and a far easier approval process than Ptown. The problem is, no customers and no business. I'd fail instantly. So I didn't and took a salary job instead in DTX.
I dunno, I think every
I dunno, I think every municipality has regulations and requirements and I've found the Licensing and Selectman boards to actually be very pro-business. I think any "red tape" in Provincetown is just the cost of doing business. There are successful small businesses all over town, so I guess there are plenty of people who have what it takes to make a go of it. You should give it a try there.
By comparison
vs my home town, Ptown was much worse.. much.
They want to dictate what you can sell, how your store looks (interior and exterior), what products you offer, what benefit does the community get, and a whole bunch more (sorry thats all I can remember off the top of my head). Plus they want to see your business plan.
But yes you are correct, its this that makes Ptown exactly what it is... a walkable community with little unique shops to see.
I just thought it was too much to try to open a service-related store that wasn't a eatery or a t-shirt shop (which Ptown has far too many of)
Some day when I have the financial backing to do so I will try again.
I hope you do, and I'm sure
I hope you do, and I'm sure you will make a go of it.
Details please
What specifically is the Main Street district of Roslindale? Is Pet Cabaret even in it? Would PetcoPlus over by Yucatan Tacos be OK or on American Legion? What about on Belgrade by Rustica? I just want to understand what the concept is here.
Does Pet Cabaret get a special commendation for 'place-making' the Square into a better shopping district? Oh wait, they're a 1/2 mile up the street.
yup
Thats the other thing that bothers me about these types of 'ordinances'. Who gets to make the decision of what is a small or a large business. And basically who gets to do the approval or denial of said businesses.
And on a bleeding edge... I think it shameful that this 'community group' is using "Main Streets 2.0" as a way to block just one store from coming. It's too knee jerk of a reaction.. if they can't block it one way, they'll block everyone else in the process. Shameful.
Not a knee jerk reaction
RVMS board member here. Below is my own take, not the board's.
RVMS is well aware of the trade-offs here, and each time a chain store is proposed for the square it causes us to further evaluate our position on this matter. If it looks like a knee jerk reaction to you, perhaps we're not doing enough to make that clear. As it says in the proposal,
At the same time, chains do far, far less to benefit the local economy than locally owned businesses. In your other comment, you said, "Its a combination of small and large businesses is the key. Not one or the other." You might prefer a slightly different balance from RVMS, but you might also be surprised at the group's openness to this concept.
Thanks
But I still think its 'knee jerk'. Funny how these conversations come up when something is trying to be stopped, rather than thinking a little bit ahead and doing so when nothing else is going on. Its knee jerk since its happening at the same time.
Timing
I understand your point, but given the timeline for the Unleashed by Petco store's proposed opening, I don't think there's any chance that this proposal will be adopted in time to apply to this specific case. Instead, I'd say that Petco has brought the issue to the forefront and perhaps has signaled the start of a new trend in the square. In reality, I think this proposal is geared more towards being ready for future developments than towards blocking Petco specifically. There are pros and cons to this happening while the Petco campaign is active - awareness of the issue is certainly higher than normal, but at the same time emotions may be higher also. Hopefully we will learn something about the community and about the effects of opening chain stores in the square from this process and apply what we've learned as we develop a plan for moving forward.
Not a member of RVMS but a Roslindaler here
That's just not true - it might seem that way if you're simply looking at breathless headlines to inform you about what's going on, but any Roslindaler paying attention over the years has seen the RVMS talking about this in good times and bad, in pro-terms and con.
OK
I am not a Roslindaler but still at face value looks too knee jerk to me
but whatever, I stand corrected.
What is your district?
Can you please clarify what exactly is the Main Street district? Is Pet Cabaret in it?
I have the impression that the RMVS operates from the viewpoint of a very specific, well-meaning subset of the community while ignoring the needs, requirements and desires of the general community and general shopping district. When making these decisions, who is the perceived primary beneficiary - the local businesses or the local consumers? Are places like the Sign Post, Rialto, Wall Paper City part of RVMS?
It seems like the goal is to keep hoping that a place like Sarida or Minerva's Owl can make their business work and nothing else is acceptable.
As far as local contribution to the economy, isn't an empty storefront contributing the least possible amount?
District
The district encompasses the entire square plus a little bit of Washington St. in each direction from Adams Park. I believe that stretch extends roughly from Trethewey Brothers to Staples, but that's just off the top of my head. I've seen a detailed map but I'm having trouble finding it right now - if I do find it I'll post it here.
Update: I think the map in this document shows the district's boundaries
It's certainly not fair to say that only shops like Sarida or Minerva's Owl are acceptable, nor that we just hope that those businesses succeed. We do actively work to support small businesses in particular, but also try to be realistic about which businesses are likely to be able to succeed in a specific location in the square. For example, as I mentioned in a previous thread, RVMS supported Staples when it moved to the square, recognizing that it was a good fit for both the size and location of that building. That happened before I joined the board, so I can't really speak to the specifics of that particular case.
Finally, yes, of course RVMS understands the importance of filling empty storefronts. I also think that chain stores vs. empty storefronts is a false dichotomy. To go one step beyond that, I think there's a real possibility that a proliferation of chains could actually have a downstream effect of increasing the number of empty storefronts - local businesses' support of one another is really, really important to their success. It's hard to make a small business work, but the benefits to the community are so great that we think it's well worth pursuing.
Thanks
That's very informative.
As noted above, I guess I've been reacting to this as if Petco was being blocked to benefit Pet Cabaret. To make sure I get the point here, if Petco wanted to open elsewhere in town like on Belgrade or farther up Washington, that would be fine with RMVS?
I am not in favor of further restrictions on a district with plenty of open store fronts and a long history of small business turnover, but that is a slightly different issue. It feels very arbitrary. Busted Knuckle, Seven Star, Pet Cabaret have all opened up outside the 'core' district but are clearly the kind of local businesses RVMS wants to foster.
I can't speak for the board
To be clear, everything I've been posting here is my opinion, not the board's. I have no idea what would happen if Petco wanted to open up elsewhere in Roslindale. I personally would have some concerns about that happening, sure, but I don't know what kind of official position RVMS would (or would be able to) take.
The businesses you list that are outside of the officially designated Main Street area are absolutely businesses that RVMS (or at least this RVMS board member) likes to have in the area. In some ways the official Main Street designation for some areas does seem problematic - I certainly don't see any reason why Seven Star should have been denied its liquor license, for example. I think it's great that the city does something to recognize that local business districts are important to their neighborhoods, and I think that the various Main Street districts in the city have done some great things. But it's fair to bring up the fact that businesses that are as important to Roslindale as the ones in the square don't have the same freedoms and limitations as the ones in the square. Maybe there's some better way of doing things, but that's a much larger conversation that should probably happen somewhere other than a UHub comment thread.
As for the specific proposal that is the topic of this thread, I haven't even formed my own opinion on it yet. I didn't take part in its creation, so it's still pretty new to me.
Uncertainty
The scope and jurisdiction issues related to the RVMS is why I favor it being a business facilitator instead of a gate-keeper.
I.e. if you want to open a business in Roslindale, both in the Square and elsewhere, especially a small business, maybe RVMS could help guide you to find the right contacts for licensing, regulations, services, etc... If you have a small business in Roslindale, RVMS can help you promote your business. I don't think an unpaid volunteer board is the right entity to try to dictate the actual ebb and flow of the free market in a specific part of the neighborhood.
I do appreciate the time and effort you and your colleagues put into the neighborhood, just not in this case.
I'm sorry
but..
You're very wrong here. Very mislead. it's all about the foot traffic folks.. chain stores generate foot traffic, empty store fronts do not. It's pretty clear.
I've made my case for this very clear in 3 of my posts in this thread.
The other thing is, you're going on this 'chain stores = bad' mentality. Sorry you're wrong here. Many chain stores, like star bucks locations, market basket stores, costco, and a few other big box stores run like a small business. Sure its apart of a chain, but the store manager has so much control over his store and the community they support as much as small business do. Do your homework before you do a blanket statement of "chain stores are bad". Not all are bad.
And I'm sorry I disagree, the more you talk, the more it sounds like you want to cherry pick businesses for the city center and dictate what can and cannot go there, based on your personal opinions. Regulating business in this manner is bad for business. This mentality just does not work and ends up driving successful businesses away because of the red tape to open. Who wants to 'get approval' from some community group when they could open elsewhere with less hassle.
You'd be better off finding other things besides regulation to promote small businesses in the city center. (my point below says this)
Sorry just my opinion..
Roslindale Village Main
Roslindale Village Main Streets has also been at the forefront of taking a square that was mostly empty storefronts and seedy when I was a kid and helped turn it into one of (if not the most) flourishing neighborhood business districts in the city. They absolutely did not do it alone but they have been a significant part of it. And the "they" I refer to is mostly volunteers except for the paid executive director. I wouldn't discount what they're doing out of hand or call it knee jerk. These people study this stuff and know what they're talking about and have a vested interest in the area. Personally, I need to know more specifics about this specific proposal before I form an opinion but that's separate from appreciating what they do overall for the area.
Not sure how to respond to this
I think you are reading way more into my comments than is actually there - I'm more than willing to accept that this isn't a black and white issue.
First, when I say that chain stores vs. empty storefronts is a false dichotomy, what I mean is that being opposed to a specific chain store is not the same as supporting an empty storefront in its place. Obviously I'm aware that an empty storefront does not generate foot traffic. At the same time, a chain store isn't the only thing that does generate foot traffic.
I'm also not going on a strict "chain stores = bad" mentality, nor have I made any blanket statements to that effect - I've even given a specific example of a case where I think a chain store was a good fit for a particular space. I try to be realistic about the pros and cons of chain stores. And no matter what you say, there are plenty of reasons to believe that an unchecked proliferation of chain stores can be bad for the local economy. Believe it or not, I also agree with you that excessive restrictions on business can be bad for the local economy. As I quoted above, I'm willing to accept that “chains can serve an important development function in any business district." I also think it's worth being aware of their very different impact on the local economy from local shops. If you have some "homework" for me to do that will alleviate some of the concerns I have about chain stores, feel free to post it and I'll read it. Or, if you're referring to the anecdotes in your other comments, I'll go back and reread them.
Are you coming by the train club open house this weekend?
Ask for Steve W. - I'd love to meet you - and I'll be there both days (that goes for everyone else out here too).
Train club
I love the BSMRM. I usually do go, and I hope to be there this weekend. Not 100% sure if it fits into my ridiculous schedule this year, though. If I do go I'll make sure to ask for you!
Trains!
I will probably be there at some point, and will try to find you if so.
What are the hours?
Might like to go again. (It's been several years since we last visited -- anything new?)
Yeah, this will really help
Yeah, this will really help fill all those vacant storefronts on South Street.
At this point I'm cheering on Petco just because this entire argument is so ridiculous.
No thank you.....
I'll spend my money wherever I want to.
What, is someone stopping you
What, is someone stopping you?
I support this
You have to be vigilant about chains. Otherwise, your neighborhood turns into Everytown, USA. Bravo for this effort!
Smalltown USA
Not really.
I'm from a small town in NH who has gone thru many hard economic times. Main Street is a ghost town. All the small biz have closed up and moved away. Everyone now shops on Washington Street (big box/mall area of town).
The city has spent MILLIONS on attracting businesses to the center of town. Orignally when the revitalization project started in the early 1990s, it was focused on low interest loans for small business owners who open up shop in town. Guess what it netted us? A nail salon, a few 'dollar/junk' stores, a pawn shop, and fitness center. And the city 'forced' all the big box retailers on to the malls on Washington street. The city blocked a Price Chopper supermarket from opening up in the old Farm Fare IGA and neighboring ex-Fay's/Carl's Drug space, and in return got something it didn't want... Brooks/Osco/Rite Aid bought the buildings and now its a huge Rite Aid store. The city could not fight it and gave up and just allowed it (mostly due to legal fees). Sucks now that the only viable spot for something larger than a small business is a drug store now and that isn't going anywhere anytime soon. (Especially When most residents at the time, supported a supermarket 'in town' because there was not one that was walking distance from the city center)
Now 20 years later, still many store fronts are empty, and what does open, quickly close after due to the lack of foot traffic. Everyone shops on washington street. The city changed its strategy and now allows for larger businesses. Two months ago, a CitiBank and a Starbucks opened up. Guess what? Merchants are now saying that they've seen a two fold increase of customers.
Poopoo all you want on chains, but remember folks, the vast majority of Americans shop at these chains, and thats why they are so popular and open up everywhere. If there wasn't a need, these stores wouldn't open. And "those evil chain stores" are killing us is a crock of crap. Maybe if people didn't stop at big stores, smaller ones would survive. But people don't, so here we are..
One other point
I want to add to this conversation. A little bit closer to MA.
Downtown Chelsea, where I live, has a problem with TOO MANY small businesses, and too many duplicate businesses. If I see another bodega, taco shop, cell phone store, or fly by night clothing/junk/dollar store open it, it'll be too soon.
So I asked the, now outgoing, Jay Ash what we can do.. his reply..
Work with building owners to reduce rent. Rents along Broadway are exorbitant, which prevents many businesses from opening up and we're stuck with a handful of types stores that open.
I think the same can be applied to any "Main Street" in Boston. This is why chains are so quickly to move in when small businesses can't.. because chains can afford the rent, small, starting out businesses can't. And landlords want filled space, not paying taxes/utlities on empty spaces, so they rent to chains. I bet the rents in Rozzie square are pretty high as is.. and a good key indicator are empty store fronts.
Lower rents and I bet you'd attract lots of small businesses that can afford to be there without any regulation. Many just can't afford the rent anymore in "main street" because its jacked up so high. Why pay so much in rent with little foot traffic, when I can be in a mall, and yes pay more in rent, but the offset would be take care of by foot traffic.
Speaking generally here, your
Speaking generally here, your proposal is obvious to anyone and an ideal one. But we also know Main Streets has no authority to get landlords to lower rents beyond politely asking. So, they're trying something else here, putting aside arguing on the merits for the time being. Rising rents in Roslindale Square are becoming a problem, at least from some of the business owners I've spoken with. That's probably why there is a push here in part I'd guess to limit chains because it could start going in that direction.
but
to my point.. WHY chains are gobbling up store fronts is a question that needs to be asked. Most of the time, its rents and economic needs that say that.
I think that's my whole point of this was that there are alternatives to pushing down 'regulations' and 'policies'. Look at those FIRST. Understand WHY small biz open and close so much. Understand why chains succeed while others do not.
I think once you have the answers to that, trying to 'regulate business' will kinda go out the window because you'll have a clear understanding of what is really going on and can make changes to improve that.
No
Just no.
I have no problem with my neighbors, or anyone else, voting with their pocket books, but something like this brings out that very small libertarian part of me.
The Roche Brothers supermarket chain started out on Corinth Street, but according to people today, they would not even be allowed to compete with Village Market (and in any instance, they wouldn't do it as they would be competing in the end with themselves.)
I have no problem, and in fact I see the point, of RVMS trying to create a good mix of businesses in the area, but essentially something like this is forcing choices on consumers. Perhaps I want to be able to buy a cell phone from a carrier in the Square. Perhaps I want to be able to walk to a Subway shop. Perhaps landlords would like to be able to rent out spaces rather than being told that a perspective tenant is the "wrong kind" for the Square.
Just no.
Argh!
I don't support this at all. First they came for the chains, but I don't like chains so I said nothing....
Seriously, not a good idea to pick and choose business types through regulatory means. If a company offers a legal product and can come to terms with a landlord, that's fine. I am under no obligation to shop there. If the big box chain has an unfair advantage (and it likely does), the correct response is figuring a way to bring similar advantage to the neighborhood entrepreneur. When we start to legally define what forms of commerce are welcome there but not here, we constrain freedom of choice for both buyers and sellers.
Not good.
It's about balance and control
This plan looks to me like it is about striking a balance. I don't like chain stores, but I recognize that a lot of people can't afford to go 100% local even if they want to. And people who couldn't care less about chains versus local have to admit that local shops make a major contribution to Rozzie Square's uniqueness.
The problem with chain stores is that they can sell cheap because they pay their workers low wages and buy from suppliers who pay their foreign workers really low wages and who trash the environment. The economies of scale and low overhead these big corporations enjoy also enable them to saturate communities with advertising and marketing campaigns. Local businesses have a tough time competing.
Why does this matter? Local businesses are much more beneficial to their local economies than chain stores. This has been studied extensively, and it boils down to local businesses return 45 cents on the dollar to the local economy compared to just 15 cents for chain stores.
A lot of people in Roslindale have worked really hard over the last several decades to make the neighborhood a unique and attractive place. I'd hate to see a bunch of chain stores come in and vacuum out a chunk of the socioeconomic capital that we've built up.
No one is proposing a ban on chain stores. This is about controlling the process.
but
The way it sounds (and from the board member posting).. sounds like they want to, but they know legally they can't, so they will find every single loop hole to prevent a chain from moving in. They'll just make it next to impossible to do so.
not from where I sit
My sense is that there is a range of views within RVMS, none of which include full on resistance to chain stores. Personally, I'd like to see them go as far as possible in limiting chain stores, but I don't think that's their intent.
Make no mistake, there will almost certainly be more chain stores in Roslindale Square. After all, we're "up and coming".
Please point out where I said this
If I said anything to this effect, please point it out and I'll clarify. Not my position at all.
Embarrassing
I find this embarrassing as a Roslindale resident. It comes across as really snobby to me. Or maybe bratty is a better word. Has the RVMS board heard of American capitalism? It's not easy, not everyone succeeds. And this feels like the equivalent of throwing a tantrum when you feel threatened. Grow up.
It takes balls to start up
It takes balls to start up your own business in Taxachusetts. And you think it's snobby to support that? Okay... Any other pearls of wisdom you'd like to impart?
It takes balls to take on the big boys
It takes little, small testicles to have the City of Boston restrict competition.
I have nothing against small business. Perhaps some of these businesses will be big some day. But why restrict businesses, be they indies, franchises, or chains, from opening up?
It's snobby to suggest that
It's snobby to suggest that tax-paying consumers should support small, local businesses over the stores that carry products they actually want at prices they can actually afford.
I bet running a small business isn't easy, and owners probably don't have much financial security. But let's not pretend they're the only ones facing a hardship. If it weren't for chain stores some families wouldn't be able to feed or clothe themselves.
Also, blocking Petco isn't going to make me shop at Wallpaper City or the flower shop any more than I already do.
frustrating
There are already dozens of regulations on the books in Boston. Its already enormously expensive to rent or buy any real estate anywhere in the city, and regulations like this will make if MORE expensive. You know what enables small businesses to thrive? Low rent, low barrier to entry. We already have extensive zoning regulations in place that would prevent big box stores or most large retail establishments to move in. This seems like an incredibly knee-jerk reaction to a single retailer "threatening" to open shop. To me the square doesn't in any way seem threatened by a stampede of national retailers moving in. It will stay funky by it's very nature.
Chain chain chains
If Rozzie is against chain stores than can we please get rid of the eye sore that is Family dollar, which is a chain.
I hope you're right
That would be great. I don't think we're going to turn into Harvard Square anytime soon. But I don't think we should even head in that direction, and I see changes coming.
As the RVMS statement said:
I think it's important to put some levers in place so we can at least influence the process.
I'm not thrilled with this,
I'm not thrilled with this, partly because it's a national chain that doesn't have the best track-record, but mostly because it's a low-volume business in a prime location that would likely largely rely on car traffic - and it's yet another addition to the square that I have absolutely no use for (that and all those hair and nail places).
although - I honestly don't know what else would go there, since I never set foot in that uniform place either... I'm trying to think of the places I go to frequently - it's mostly food shopping, the hardware store, staples, and occasionally the restaurants... I've been to the paint store a few times...
I know I'd definitely frequent a sit-down coffee shop with good atmosphere - a decent small entertainment venue like the somerville theatre - a small sporting goods store...
Wealth Transfer
If we assume that 'formula' stores offer lower prices and wider selection (which I think is a fair assumption), then what we have is consumers paying more for products, which is to the benefit of the incumbent businesses in the area. Is that the kind of transfer we want to encourage?
I suppose the counter-argument is some hazy aesthetic concept about 'formula' stores ruining the 'character' of the area, though I'm not sure one Petco is going to destroy housing prices in Roslindale.
Bigger picture questions for RVMS
Three observations :
I conducted an informal poll walking round the square and counted 13 hair salons / barber shops in the RVMS district (as of spring 2014). As a non-driver, I frequently passed these places on foot -- and noticed they were barely ever filled with more than one patron / one stylist. Does RMVS ever try to keep oversaturation of a single type of business on the radar when evaluating what does and doesn't make it into the square?
Over the course of 10 years, I saw numerous boutique-style stores / restaurants open and close. Not sure if anything exciting has happened in the 6 months we've been away from MA, but at the time we left, only Redd's appeared to be in business and succeeding (meaning : people seen inside on a regular basis) - and I couldn't help wondering if this was because they offered food and drink at a variety of price points in a comfortable environment with good service (as opposed to Sugar's not-good-service). Would / Does RMVS incentivize "staple" stores to try their hand at the square? How about sporting goods? Coffee? {Pet supplies actually fits the bill here too; showing my hand : am on board with a PetCo in the square ... the horror, the horror} It feels like RZ has a long way to go before it can satisfy the foot traffic needs demanded by the niche markets now-closed Roslindale Square businesses attempted to draw.
To that point, as a constant pedestrian, I had no choice but to walk through the square to get my errands done - and most of the time it was filthy. Trash and food wrappers and discarded bags and dog waste and unkept public walkways. It seems so obvious that to encourage foot traffic one would try to keep public areas clean and well lit. Does RMVS organize any effort to keep the commercial district appealing and clean?
Good luck filling those empty storefronts.