By adamg on Thu., 3/26/2015 - 11:27 am
MassDOT is looking at ways to increase capacity on Rte. 3 south of Boston. WBZ reports one way to pay for it: Use that newfangled "open tolling" system to create an express lane. And while they're at it, why not vary the tolls by time of day, so people who have to be in town in the morning could pay more for the privilege?
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Congestion pricing
By BikerGeek
Thu, 03/26/2015 - 12:03pm
is a regressive form of taxation.
People who are at the top of the wage scale can structure their hours to avoid it, can afford to live near mass transit, or can work from home. People on the bottom of the totem pole, whose boss says "Be here on the dot of 9:00 or you're fired," are stuck.
As if on cue
By Matthew
Thu, 03/26/2015 - 12:07pm
^ This is exactly the kind of wrong-headed attitude that I meant.
Congestion pricing is VERY progressive, not regressive. What's regressive is forcing a bus full of passengers to get stuck in traffic. Congestion pricing can both help pay the cost of running the bus (making it cheap and easy for low-income workers to use it) and can keep the bus out of traffic jams (making it reliable).
If your boss says that, do you really think it's an excuse to say "well, I was stuck in traffic, but at least everybody else was stuck in the same exact traffic."
Sounds more like spite, to me.
Maybe I'd feel better about
By anon
Fri, 03/27/2015 - 12:54pm
Maybe I'd feel better about this plan if we had a decent commuter bus network on the South Shore.
Something like the bus service from northern NJ into NYC, or from suburbs in all directions into Seattle, and even from some suburbs to big employment destinations in other suburbs.
Just credit them on income taxes
By eddiil
Thu, 03/26/2015 - 12:48pm
There's already precedent for tax breaks based on EZ Pass data. Just add a tax credit with phaseout that reimburses low income drivers.
Then you waste lots of tax
By anon
Thu, 03/26/2015 - 3:39pm
Then you waste lots of tax money administering the whole scheme to the point it is sometimes not worth collecting the tax in the first place.
If we didn't already have the
By eddiil
Thu, 03/26/2015 - 4:35pm
If we didn't already have the system set up to do this with Mass Pike tolls, I'd be skeptical too. But my hope would be that you could piggyback onto the existing infrastructure.
That said, I generally think that using the income tax code to try to achieve policy goals is less than ideal. I'd love to see someone do the math, but I wonder what would happen if you just sliced the top 10% off the toll revenue and refunded in the form of a larger EITC-type thing...
You can also set up a
By Charlie
Mon, 03/30/2015 - 1:01pm
You can also set up a discount program based on income. It doesn't make sense to make something free just because everyone can't afford it. That's why we have ways to reduce the cost for people with lower incomes.
More Lanes!
By anon
Thu, 03/26/2015 - 12:04pm
It's always the "answer" to traffic but just invites more cars. In 10yrs time traffic would be just as bad with the extra lane as it is today. Adding that lane would make traffic worse for however long it would take to finish constructing it and it never seems like they're in a big rush to finish road construction around here. They should focus their money & efforts on public transit that's actually pleasant & efficient to use.
Not so hot on this idea
By Matt_J
Thu, 03/26/2015 - 12:12pm
During rush hour on 93 the HOV lane is packed and slow. Providing a "fast lane" on RT 3 seems a bit Orwellian in practice, even if there is more capacity.
It would seem a better idea to increase the quality and access to public transit rather than increase the number of lanes from Derby Street to 93.
Also for those who take RT 3 to get to the Red Line at Braintree or Quincy Adams an additional tax to get to and from work is just mean.
How would tolling increase capacity?
By Will LaTulippe
Thu, 03/26/2015 - 12:13pm
Unless that's a typo, in which case, my answer to decreasing capacity on Route 3 is "make Cape Cod somehow suck." Arsenic in the ocean water, maybe?
As I understand the plan
By roadman
Thu, 03/26/2015 - 12:21pm
the idea is to widen the southern end of Route 3 to three lanes in each direction (a project that has been on the radar for a long time, even with the construction of the Old Colony lines).
Construction would be financed by a private company, which would foot the capital for the work based on the expected future toll revenue they will receive for operating the road once it is widened.
This is similar to the funding strategy that was used for Virginia's HOT lanes on the Capital Beltway (open) and I-95 (pending).
Extend 93
By cybah
Thu, 03/26/2015 - 12:23pm
I'm just throwing this out there.. but why don't the petition the Fed to extend I-93 to include Route 3 all the way to the bridge?
This way it would free up federal money to expand Route 3 (and make it built to more interstate standards)
Just a random thought.
Good thought, but there are some issues
By roadman
Thu, 03/26/2015 - 1:20pm
First, to qualify for an Interstate designation, especially extension of a principal (i.e. not a loop or spur route) Interstate, the roadway in question has to be in substantial conformance with current Interstate design standards. Most of Route 3 south of Derby Street does not meet those standards.
Second, per established conventions for numbering Interstate highways, a principal Interstate route should connect to another Interstate route at its beginning and end points. Although there are some exceptions to this rule (such as I-90 ending at Route 1A in East Boston), both AASHTO and FHWA, which normally oversee the assignment of Interstate numbers (not counting Interstate 99 in Pennsylvania, which was created by an Act of Congress), have been very reluctant to grant exceptions to the current numbering conventions.
Lastly, there has been a project under discussion since the 1990s to widen Route 24 between Fall River and Raynham. If and when this project (which is still being pursued despite the work on South Coast Rail) is completed, MassDOT's plan is to disconnect I-93 from I-95 in Canton and re-route it via current Route 24 down to I-195 in Fall River. What the broken link between I-95 and Route 24 will be numbered is anybody's guess at this point, but that's another story.
While other states, such as New York, currently have roads designated as "Future Interstate XX", that designation has been established for specific corridors where providing an Interstate route is deemed to improve connectivity within the Interstate system. With respect, I'm not convinced that extending the I-93 designation down to Cape Cod will provide enough improved Interstate connectivity to justify the re-designation.
None taken!
By cybah
Thu, 03/26/2015 - 1:35pm
None taken!
I remember reading or thinking that a long time ago.... extending 93 to the Sagamore. Then you could drive from the White Mountains to Cape Cod on one expressway (as I-93).
Changing the designation would free up money for the upgrades required from Derby south plus widening, which was my main point vs adding tolls.
With respect to the "TO 95" expressway (Canton stretch between 93 and 95), I would guess it would become I-193, since no spurs of 93 exist in MA. And if my memory serves me correctly about interstate numbering, a 1, an odd number, would be a spur, not a loop (i.e. 293 in Manchester NH). It would have to be X93, and not X95 since I-195, and I-395 exist already in MA.
Actually, following the numbering conventions,
By roadman
Thu, 03/26/2015 - 4:55pm
the Canton to Braintree section would be an X95, because spurs are supposed to branch off the main system from south to north. The logical choice would be I-595, as it's both an odd number (spur route), is not currently assigned to any route in Massachusetts, and has not been previously proposed to be assigned to any route in Massachusetts.
One thing's for sure, if this did happen, the signing at the Canton split will become very interesting, regardless of which route number is chosen for the "gap" section.
Hmmm
By cybah
Thu, 03/26/2015 - 5:06pm
But isn't "to 95" section east/west?
Yes, the X95 would be
By roadman
Thu, 03/26/2015 - 5:32pm
signed east-west. But I-95, or "the parent" in numbered route speak, is a north-south route. So the spur, or "child", would come off of I-95, not I-93. It's actually more logical from a driver's perspective as well, as "take a spur of I-95 off of I-95 to get to I-93" doesn't have the "huh?" factor that "take a spur of I-93 off of I-95 to get to I-93" does.
Now I realize at this point some of you out there are saying "Now you're just talking semantics", others out there are just rolling their eyes, while some of you may be saying "Hey roadman, just go back to complaining about T alerts." For those of you in any of these categories, I suggest you read the "Numbering System" section of this item
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_Highway_Sy...
and you'll see there is actually a logic to all of this.
"'take a spur of I-95 off of
By anon
Fri, 03/27/2015 - 1:00pm
"'take a spur of I-95 off of I-95 to get to I-93' doesn't have the 'huh?' factor that 'take a spur of I-93 off of I-95 to get to I-93' does."
Why do you only consider the people going from I-95 to I-93, and not people heading in the other direction (who could be the same people on their return trip)?
If you're heading towards
By roadman
Fri, 03/27/2015 - 1:27pm
I-95, taking a X95 route off of I-93 is more logical than an X93 route would be.
I read last night
By cybah
Fri, 03/27/2015 - 1:31pm
and yes you are correct about that. Doesn't make a lot of sense, since most people are going from 93 South to 95.. and not the other way around.
But yes, spurs always start west and south parent.. so it would be 95 not 93.
Although there are some
By tape
Thu, 03/26/2015 - 2:39pm
FWIW, 90 used to end at 93 until it was extended to the airport for the Big Dig.
Anyway, if all parties involved really wanted this to happen, they could just make it a spur route and call it I-193 or whatever.
Um, per those same numbering conventions,
By roadman
Thu, 03/26/2015 - 5:38pm
a principal interstate cannot start at a spur or loop route. In 2004, in response to a request from then Governor Romney, MassHighway investigated various options for simplfying the route designations in the Greater Boston area.
One option that was considered, and had many advantages from cost and implementation standpoints, was to truncate I-93 in Braintree, and re-designate the highway between Canton to Braintree as a spur of I-95. This was to address the Glob(e)s ongoing complaints about the fact that Canton to Braintree was signed "north/south" while it actually runs east-west, as well as the whole "93 north/128 south" issue they love to whine about - which hasn't existed since 1989 when 128 was officially decomissioned south of Canton.
AASHTO and FHWA's response was they would not approve such a change for the reason I stated in my first sentence. Of course, the whole issue became mute when the Glob(e) found out that a key part of any route re-designating plan (even the "no-build" option) was to decomission 128 south of I-95 in Peabody. After the Glob(e) printed an editorial basically accussing MassHighway of treason, dogs and cats living together, and the like, the Mittster issued a public statement declaring that the 128 designation would not be removed during his tenure.
The problem
By S
Thu, 03/26/2015 - 12:34pm
Isn't the issue the overloaded Southeast Expressway and the Route 128 corridor? Is $800 million of new lanes needed to speed up the commute from Marshfield to Braintree?
Look at Wired magazine article "Building Bigger Roads Actually Makes Traffic Worse". More lanes will mean more commuters moving farther away for larger yards, cheaper housing, creating sleeper suburbs and sapping the vitality of the city that is the economic engine. Unless the tolls are used for some public good, it is simply a trade of public resources (land, civil servants time) for the benefit of a few who will pay to use the lanes.
I'm not sure why the rich suburbs that dominate state politics can't see that a more efficient MBTA will ease commutes for drivers AND riders.
T
By jkw
Fri, 03/27/2015 - 12:59pm
Back in early 2000 they added almost 200 more spaces to the commuter rail lot in Halifax on the Kingston line because the lot was full every day. Following that they proceeded to almost fill the lot each day with the added spaces. Parking was $1 and the T-Pass cost south of $150. Fast forward to today: the T pass has more than doubled; parking is $4; the schedule and timeliness of that schedule is subpar. Result: the lot is 1/4 full on a good day. Fix the T and make it too cheap not to take and the Rte 3 congestion issue is mitigated significantly - and perhaps even solved.
Smart tolling with stupid implementation
By Markk02474
Thu, 03/26/2015 - 1:10pm
People who have been using "smart" tolling and EzPass have been getting huge fines when not getting bills or notifications that their credit card charges did not go through. The system is failing at giving people due notice and by charging outrageous fines. This needs fixing.
If tolling is added to Rt. 3, at least 2 more lanes in each direction are needed. Didn't anyone learn from the 1 lane widening of Rt. 3 north which was filled within 10 years. On Rt 3 south, EXISTING, pent up demand would fill the extra lane immediately with no margin for the future. MassDOT's own study has shown that HOV lanes should only come from adding to existing roads, as the roads already need added capacity.
A small percentage of people
By roadman
Thu, 03/26/2015 - 1:21pm
A small percentage of people who have been using "smart" tolling and EzPass have been getting huge fines when
not gettingignoring multiple bills or notifications that they used an E-ZPass lane without a transponder. FIFY.As for "their credit card charges did not go through", for all practical purposes this is impossible. You obviously don't know how E-ZPass accounts works.
How's it impossible? First
By anon
Fri, 03/27/2015 - 12:48pm
How's it impossible? First the credit card you have on file expires or the number changes. When your E-ZPass balance goes below the threshold, the automatic recharge fails. And then your account goes negative, and you start racking up fines.
Maybe they notify you before this happens, but I wouldn't depend on it.
It's a separate issue from using E-ZPass lanes without a transponder.
Other E-ZPass gotchas that are totally *not* the user's fault:
- Getting other people's fines because they misread the license plate
- Fines when your transponder fails to read, even though it was properly mounted and the license plate was registered on the account
Same story... different decade
By MassMouse
Thu, 03/26/2015 - 1:28pm
Wasn't this talked about back when the Distressway was paved back in the early '80s?
Brilliant!
By bulgingbuick
Thu, 03/26/2015 - 2:34pm
I say we do a nationwide search. Hire Bechtel as the designer, builder and owners representative. It's Privatization nirvanna. What could possibly go wrong?
excise tax
By Ann Weatherbee
Thu, 03/26/2015 - 3:39pm
what is it axactly?
DC/VA Does This
By Annie
Thu, 03/26/2015 - 4:23pm
They do this in the DC/VA area. On 66 and possibly 495. That area has horrific traffic day/night and weekends. Many people use it and love it. I think it would be great and may generate income. No toll booths though, should only be possible with the EZPass or you are fined.
Not sure if tolls are a great
By anon
Thu, 03/26/2015 - 9:07pm
Not sure if tolls are a great idea
It is CHILD CARE not daycare. If your worried about picking up late, plan extra time
Preschool?
By Waquiot
Fri, 03/27/2015 - 12:25am
Hey, they take care of the kid during the day, and they are regulated by the Department of Early Education. All I know is that my kid learned the word oval there.
My problem with express toll
By anon
Fri, 03/27/2015 - 12:56pm
My problem with express toll lanes: they only work when the regular lanes are screwed up, and not a lot of people use the express lanes. In other words, they depend on the existence of an inefficient situation.
What happens if we somehow improve mass transit and the regular lanes start to flow better? There goes the toll revenue.
Here we go with electronic tolls everywhere
By Bob F
Tue, 04/04/2017 - 9:22am
Now that the MA liberals got their magic electronic tolling gantrys all down the MA Pike... of course the next step in the moonbat liberal agenda is to put them on all major roads... because they don't use the state gas tax to pay for roads anyway so they have to fill the unlimited pension and healthcare coffers with something??
NO MORE TOLL GANTRYS !!! The pro comments on here are so spastic they have no concept of what it is like to work a regular job... idiots.
Now a Bill has been forwarded to ... suprise... put up a toll gantry on the southeast expressway....
NO MORE TOLLS
After Geoff Deihl defeats Brockton Senator Mike Brady
By bulgingbuick
Tue, 04/04/2017 - 10:12am
and then beats Liz Warren tolls will be a thing of the past.....
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