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Scaled back due to space and budget constraints?
I recall the AIDS quilt got too big to be displayed as one piece a long time ago.
Wikipedia has said 2.3 million since 2009
He could have checked the Wikipedia article, which, since 2009, has said that there are 2.3 million unique numbers.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=New_England_Holocaust_Memoria...
Wikipedia
I did see the Wikipedia article, but that doesn't seem to have stopped anyone from continuing to say it has 6 million numbers. They made a distinction between "unique" and "non-unque" numbers that didn't make sense because in the end there are not 6 million numbers regardless. I think they just never stopped to think about it, honestly.
unnumbered victims, too
When all in a village were lined up and shot, they didn't get numbers. But there are records of such exterminations and how many people lived there before.
.....Ugh
I don't need to count to 6 million to understand the meaning of the memorial. Seeing names reminds us of the real lives lost to hate. Whomever is responsible for building the memorial should be hailed not criticized in this odd way.
not criticized
And how are you enjoying your first day in Massachusetts?
I criticize this memorial
And the Irish Famine Memorial. And the Armenian Genocide Memorial. And all the memorials around here to things that didn't happen here. My gripes go along the realm of a barroom debate more than anything else. That said, as far as a representation of the Holocaust goes, it is pretty powerful regardless of the actual number of numbers etched. Of course, if there were "only" 2.3 million people killed by the Nazis, that number would still be insanely high.
The writer is essentially the 6th grader who reminds the teacher that he didn't assign any homework.
I don't criticize this memorial, but ...
... we *do* need memorials to things that happened here . Like, most notably, the Cocoanut Grove fire.
"most notably"
yeah i can think of a certain obelisk that might argue with your 'most notably' remark
are you referring to the Bunker Hill Monument?
We've had that for quite a while. But when I last looked, the Cocoanut Grove site was an unmarked empty lot.
i misread what you said
fake answer: it represents the void in our hearts
Look again
The site is now foofy condos, Ron....
Cocoanut Grove
There is a small plaque marking the Cocoanut Grove fire. It's very small and it's on the ground, but it is quite nice. Last I heard however, they are in the process of renaming the whole street "Cocoanut Grove Street" or some such, which I think is tacky.
I can understand the Irish Famine Memorial
While I hate the actual statues, over 1 million people died and another million emigrated. A rather substantial number of those immigrants ended up here in Boston. Those immigrants had a huge effect on the city and state and forever altered Massachusetts.
The Irish famine is as much a part of Massachusetts history as it is Ireland's.
Well, that's where the barroom debate starts
Were it a memorial to Irish immigration to Boston, Massachusetts or the USA, sure, but the memorial is to the famine, which took place thousands of miles from here. Perhaps a famine memorial at the Irish Cultural Center, but on Washington Street it is a bit out of place.
I totally think that these historical events should be remembered and taught, but the famine was in Ireland, Armenians were killed in Turkey, the Nazis inflicted their horrors in Europe, and so on, and the memorials to what happened should be where they occurred.
And yet ...
There are locals whose lives were directly affected by the Armenian genocide, the Holocaust, etc., so there's a rather more immediate link to Boston than say, the Roman-garbed Viking on the Commonwealth Avenue mall.
Okay, there's another
And since I wanted to see what else is on the mall, let's throw in President Sarmiento's statue. I mean, at least Kahlil Gibran lived in Boston for a bit, but this guy has no connection to the city.
There are Viking statues and memorials in the area with the connotation that Vikings explored the area centuries before Columbus (who of course never set eyes on New England), but I've never seen the claim about Boston.
Apparently Sarmiento was a friend of Horace Mann...
... and visited schools in Massachusetts with Mann -- and then worked to apply Mann's principals in his own country. Not sure if this link will work:
https://books.google.com/books?id=zmYiBWKKsDIC&pg=PA80&lpg=PA80&dq=horac...
The Viking fad.
This is one of many late 19th century oligarch crackpots who was trying to make the argument that Mass was first settled by "virtuous Catholic Vikings", rather than those seedy Puritans.
It was a fine period for crackpots and Harvard was usually involved, especially if it was plausible psuedo science earnest to prove the importance of being white, such as eugenics.
The Viking shtick adorns the Longfellow Bridge, that Commonwealth Mall Thor wannabe and the epitome of an English Garden Folly... Norumbega Tower out overlooking the Charles on a slice of Weston separated from the rest of the town by 128.
That one has a huge plaque with a ponderous tome that is difficult to read because it's carved in flat black stone... crackpots.
There was a kind of nostalgia the late 19th century new money had for feudal things like a Yankee version of the Southern Ivanhoe worship Twain skewered.
Give an oligarch too much money and they dream up idiotic conceits to pitch marked by weird structures.
Back then they did it with their own resources..
Rumford Baking Powder
Without the Harvard crackpots (e.g., Eben Norton Horsford) the modern kitchen would be a little less powerful in its culinary armory. Of all the baking powders it was Mr. Horsford Rumford's Baking Powder that took non-yeast leavening to their greatest...heights. That of course asks the question of who was Rumford? The answer: an inventor who bettered homes and kitchens by improving fireplace technology. Count Rumford, being a Loyalist, had to exit stage over the pond when the Americans got to be cranky because their King was being so incredibly stupid toward his distant subjects.
The Loring-Greenough House summer kitchen has an example of the improved fireplace technology.
Because this never would have been invented since.
Rumford lived in Woburn.
The cool thing about Harvard shills is their pedantry. You at least get a story.
Most shills just attempt to rebut.
Im having visions of Cheers
And Cliff Claven.
There's plenty of coverage for locals and their tribulations.
The waterfront Harborwalk is obsessed with Donald MacKay There is a volkswagen sized bust over in Eastie's old trolley yard park.
Another tribute is over on the sea facing side of Fort Independence and there are yet others along Columbia Point.
In addition to the oft derided famine tableau, (there's one on Cambridge Common as well), you got Red Auerbach and several others lurking around the market. There's a Sam Adams replica to greet you next to the faux tea party ships.
This place clings to the glories of its past with a white knuckled grip as a major sales point.
The plaques are also all over the map from half rusted things at the Charlestown Shipyard to indicate where the Brits were to bronze things, (popular with scrap thieves) extolling Tip O Neill.
One was swiped from the foot of Savin Hill that remembered a WW1 vet there.
Then there are enameled metal ones that aren't as valuable for scrap pests and newer plywood sheet sized things with plastic laminate stuff, of which, the older stuff is fading from sun.
And granite never went out of style, while while older slateish things dating back to the mid eighteenth century show up in patterns that mirror headstone material progressions.
I figure it's okay to throw in our over seas threads of relationship. It feeds the illusions of our world class aspirations and pleases bystanders. As photo subjects they are more appealing to me than shiny happy monkeys on the Common, etc.
If the creator claimed 6 million...
Then I think they would open themselves up to criticism. I don't see anyone saying that the people who made the memorial went around telling everyone there were 6 million numbers when there are really 2.3 million, though, so it doesn't seem like any criticism is warranted.
The NEHM's website is oddly self contradicting
The NEHM 's website does claim 6 million numbers, while also stating that there are only 2 million. So this guy is essentially pointing out crappy web site copy, but treating it like they were trying to pull something over on us.
From the "self guided tour" section of the website:
http://www.nehm.org/visit/self-guided-tour/
Each tower consists of 24 individual panels of glass. The outside walls of the panels are inscribed with seven-digit numbers, evoking the numbers tattooed on the arms of the concentration camp prisoners. Numbers are arranged in 8×10 blocks, each block having sets of six numbers arranged in a 6×6 grid. A single panel contains 17,280 unique numbers, which are subsequently repeated throughout the memorial. In total there are 2,280,960 non-unique numbers listed on the 132 panels—six million numbers in total.
If someone can explain the
If someone can explain the sentence, "In total there are 2,280,960 non-unique numbers listed on the 132 panels—six million numbers in total" to me, I would appreciate it.
Written by an English major?
Or at least not on the STEM spectrum.
Simple
"Non-unique" means that the number occurs more than once. So, in the set:
1, 2, 3, 4, 2, 5, 3
...there are seven numbers, five unique (occurring only once) and two non-unique (2 and 3). So, some numbers are repeated. I'm not sure that they meant non-unique, though -- seems like maybe they were thinking unique.
The official website for the
The official website for the memorial says it has 6 million: http://www.nehm.org/the-memorial/design-of-the-memorial/
It's the thought that counts.
It's the thought that counts. Same thing with Hands Across America, where there were some gaps. Don't be down on a good cause.
Hands Across America
Haven't thought of that in years! What an 80s memory. Remember that cheesy song that went along with it?
woah
That was a real thing, and not a throwaway Simpsons gag?
Oh, it was real
Although the chain didn't pass through Boston, some locals organized their own chain. I seem to recall they did it across the Mass Ave Bridge, but I could be wrong.
Hands Across America:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hands_Across_America
The Song (spot the 80s celebrities!):
www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZorfXa5pBc
Hands video
Thanks for the link Anon. Got chills up my spine seeing classic stars like Miami Vice guys, Robin Williams, 3CPO, etc. It was a terrific song too.
Yes I do! I believe there
Yes I do! I believe there was a video too that celebs like Oprah were in it. i'll be making a Youtube trip tonight.
When will we see the memorial
for the tens of thousands slaughtered in our Iraq genocide?
Probably...
Probably quite a number of years after people who feel like you do (and yourself included, no doubt) start work to make it happen. The work to create the New England Holocaust Memorial was begun by a survivor, and the memorial was dedicated in 1995, 50 years after the end of the events it commemorates. You probably have some years of work ahead of you, beginning with the work of creating consensus around your use of the word "genocide".
genocide
gen·o·cide
ˈjenəˌsīd/
noun
noun: genocide; plural noun: genocides
the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation.
Oh boy, a dictionary lawyer
Of course we all know that citing a dictionary definition solves all possible debate about the use of a term.
I guess this is what I get for answering a silly question, huh? Anyone who's too lazy to think through their question isn't going to get the answer anyway.
You're right!
I do have mountains of American hubris and faux patriotism to defeat in my quest to get Americans to realize that genocide was committed in the name of "Enduring Freedom".
Stop preaching
You don't know who you're talking to. My point is simply that you're going to have an uphill struggle getting people to accept the word "genocide" for what happened in Iraq. Rather than getting stuck on that word -- which you will, I guarantee it -- you would do better to get Americans to first realize the basic fact that hundreds of thousands of Iraqis died in the war. Once you've done that, then you might have some success in communicating about what you think it all meant. But perhaps you're not really after what you say you're after, in which case I withdraw any suggestions about how you might go about getting there.
Our Iraq genocide?
I've heard this before, and it always gets me.
I've never seen proof that the United States Government rounded up Shiites, Sunnis, Kurds, or whoever you want to say this genocide was embarked upon and systemically killed them.
To say that the United States' destabilization of Iraq through the toppling of the Baathists, whose crimes against the Shiites and Kurds can be compared to whatever has happened in the past 12 years to show how a genocide did not happen, caused a genocide would be similar to blaming the United Kingdom for the Holocaust. Sure, they were not anti-Semitic and have a long tradition of openness to the Jews, but they did essentially create the economic conditions that gave rise to Hitler. And for that matter, the United States surely has blood on its hands for its isolationist policies in the 1930s, too.
We were more like a genocide midwife.
Daesh or Isis/Isil is the proud papa.
When Saddam was ousted, many of his military/security inner circle went underground to become a significant operational element of Daesh where they have been slaughtering up a storm in the service of their Apocalyptic Islam. So you have mini genocides for whoever is near at hand.
Might be Yazidis, might be Assyrian Christians and there is plenty of fratricide visited upon the cited victims.
Our fault was we caused a big unnecessary mess to make President Cheney look like a leader. And even now, our ignoramus approach to understanding regional subtleties led to us fucking up a lot of deals like hiring some Sunni Clan militia and forgetting to cut their checks.
The Iranians are the stabilizing force in the region. Turkey and the Saudis are supportive of Daesh as a hedge against their imagined Persian expansion with Bibi functioning as a distant 'supporter'.
The Turks are old hands at genocide and the new Saudi King Salman seems eager to give it a try in Yemen.
Officials for New England
Officials for New England Holocaust Memorial now acknowledge it does not have 6 million numbers. The memorial is still a great and moving symbol. http://bizj.us/1hg1j7