By adamg on Wed., 5/20/2015 - 3:33 pm
The city held another one of its neighborhood meetings, and once again some men showed they don't understand the idea of civil discourse.
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Comments
I honestly think that
By tape
Wed, 05/20/2015 - 7:53pm
I honestly think that responding to willfully rude and uncivil people would go so much better if there was always an airhorn involved.
Right
By IceKid
Wed, 05/20/2015 - 4:14pm
It's only "bullying" when they disagree with your opinion.
I'm not here to advocate for or against anything a decade from now but this discourse is run on this forum is embarrassing.
That's no bully, that's the mayor's cousin
By anonymouth
Wed, 05/20/2015 - 4:30pm
Also named Martin Walsh and head of the Local 223. Funny how that works, isn't it?
Ten points for proper identification
By Sock_Puppet
Wed, 05/20/2015 - 6:01pm
Third picture from the top here:
http://www.aflcio-hit.com/wmspage.cfm?parm1=3057
Mr. Mayor, your cousin, Martin Walsh, the Business Manager of Local 223, called a local woman a "fucking piece of shit" for opposing the olympics bid, which would personally benefit him and the construction industry in Boston, at the expense of other residents. What is your response to his behavior?
I have a follow-up: Mr. Mayor, are you planning to run for a second term?
"Walsh way"
By Boston voter
Wed, 05/20/2015 - 7:55pm
So is this tactic the "Walsh way" referred to in the email here:
http://wgbhnews.org/post/mayor-marty-walshs-politi...
Curious if you sent that to
By anon
Thu, 05/21/2015 - 8:19am
Curious if you sent that to the Mayor? I would be interested if he or his office would respond. If people flood him (and news organizations and social media)with videos/ pics of these ppl doing this type of stuff he will have to eventually respond.
Put it on Citizens Connect
By tofu
Thu, 05/21/2015 - 11:51am
Put it on Citizens Connect
OMG, he's a chubby version of the mayor
By Klaus
Wed, 05/20/2015 - 6:06pm
Can totally see the familial resemblance.
Boston2024 -- a civil debate requires a couple of apologies
By Anonymous
Wed, 05/20/2015 - 7:34pm
Assuming I have the identification correct (and I'm nor sure of that,) it wouldn't hurt Mayor Martin Walsh if Martin Walsh, Sr. makes a public apology to the women he berated and the audience, and John FitzGerald apologizes to Hanson and learns from his mistake.
[IMG]http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk143/nfsagan/B...
So the implication here is
By noodle
Thu, 05/21/2015 - 4:14pm
So the implication here is that he was sexist? Or is this just more name calling under the false guise of justice?
The guy seems like a piece of shit, but even the article mentions he did this to every dissenting voice male or female... So why the emphasis over and over and over again on gender?
Oh right because of equality LOL
inferring sexism
By Nancy L
Thu, 05/21/2015 - 11:39pm
I think his behavior speaks for itself whether he was addressing men or women or both. But if he's just calling women "fucking piece of shit" and not addressing men with the offensive dehumanizing speech, I think your inference that he's sexist is the smart take.
The only people who support
By Kinopio
Wed, 05/20/2015 - 4:36pm
The only people who support the Olympics are ignorant people or those who are paid to support it. These low lifes appear to be both of those things.
Putting the Civil in Civil Discourse
By IceKid
Wed, 05/20/2015 - 4:52pm
The smartest way to encourage "civil discourse" is to generalize and remind people that they are both ignorant & low life thugs.
Is anyone recording video of this?
By FredQuimby
Wed, 05/20/2015 - 4:48pm
Surely there is somebody who can attend these meetings and record them. I can't imagine it is too difficult to find out who these people interrupting the meeting are and find out what their real motive($) are.
I bet Fox News would love to run with the lede. "Union Thugs harass at Olympics Q&A."
Time to play hardball.
Someone was broadcasting it
By tape
Wed, 05/20/2015 - 7:55pm
Someone was broadcasting it last night via Periscope. I have no idea if there's an archive of that available.
It's grassroots astroturf.
By anon
Wed, 05/20/2015 - 5:26pm
I spotted the meeting schedule last week when I was looking for the bid documents.
https://www.2024boston.org/process
They have a road show going too hoping for leverage beyond the urban core. This play seems to be another fake it til you make it effort to maintain the appearance of community consultation.
statewide Boston 2024 meetings
By Ron Newman
Wed, 05/20/2015 - 11:17pm
Since there's going to be a statewide referendum, and the whole state may end up having to pay for some of this, I'm fine with having meetings all over the state.
BUT, I see no meeting scheduled for Somerville -- a city where Boston 2024 has proposed siting a large temporary venue (velodrome) and a possibly more permanent one (BMX track). They do have a meeting scheduled for Arlington, a town which to my knowledge has no venues proposed.
Mayor Curtatone is said to oppose the velo mess.
By anon
Thu, 05/21/2015 - 5:43am
He's being a fairly smart negotiator.
But 2024 wants ankle grabbers, not hagglers.
It is another example of how 2024 acts like Raglan at Balaclava, ordering a charge from a yacht in the harbor while looking at the wrong map. They want that strip of open space behind Assembly.
One way to tell if these 'community engagement' kabuki fests really are just astroturf is by these meeting location selections. Somerville and Cambridge are fairly hostile places without a mayor cousin to serve as sergeant at arms for quelling the opponents.
Hand wringing about civility is probably like waiting for the bright elusive butterfly of love. It sounds good, upright and faux progressive but falls apart when you jam a bunch of bickering monkeys together to argue about some high stakes thing.
Marcuse did a good short work called "A Critique of Pure Tolerance", that may be a useful angle on the subject.
Cambridge had a meeting on March 18
By Ron Newman
Thu, 05/21/2015 - 8:34am
according to Boston 2024's schedule. I didn't go to it. Did anyone here? I'd be interested in what happened there, because the proposed Olympic bid has a lot more impact on Cambridge (MIT, Magazine Beach, and lots of Harvard venues just across the river in Allston) than it does on Somerville.
Here's an article, Ron.
By anon
Thu, 05/21/2015 - 8:32am
It's reasonably thoughtful.
The opening sentence sums it up well.
"Most of the comments and questions coming Wednesday to a four-person panel representing the Boston2024 Olympics bid were hostile, with at least one speaker accusing the panel of lying and another refusing to even look in the officials’ direction."
http://www.cambridgeday.com/2015/03/19/four-ways-a...
I attended briefly
By bibliotequetres...
Thu, 05/21/2015 - 9:34am
I left a mere 20 minutes into comments/questions. Well, comments.
There were no confrontations within the audience that I saw. I was surprised, though, that one of the early commenters was someone I had seen at the Suffolk University meeting, and recognized as living somewhere on the Mission Hill/JP/Rozzie end of the Orange Line. I thought that the meeting was supposed to be for Cantabrigians and other locals to the northern side of the Charles, so that they could talk about their concerns.
I went
By CraigInDaVille
Thu, 05/21/2015 - 9:54am
It was certainly not contentious like the descriptions of some of the other meetings, but in general the comments/questions were at most tepidly supportive (ie: "This has potential to be a good thing, if we do it right and make sure not to lose control of things") to skeptical (ie: "I just don't see how you can make this happen without major issues that will impact everyone in the state") to outright opposed (ie: "Pull the bid, this is a horrible idea").
I'd say about 20% were in the first category, with the rest split maybe 50/30, respectively. There were some really good, well-informed questions from some city council members and Cambridge board members of various kinds, as well as general citizenry.
Contrary to what some of the Boston2024 interns are posting here, while many of the "Occupiers" that they seem to hate do indeed go to most/all of these meetings, they actually don't dominate the microphone. Yes, folks from the Boston Homeless Coalition tend to speak at every event, but let's not forget that the largest homeless shelter and treatment center was just shut down and is now going to be used for a shooting venue, so...
Bottom line: just because someone opposes the bid for similar reasons doesn't mean they are "Occupiers" (again, not sure why that's a bad thing). I've never gotten up to speak at a public meeting before, and never been as engaged on a planning issue here in Boston before, but this has brought me out full throttle for the first time. I agree with many of the points raised by many other opponents, but why does that lessen the validity of my opinions as has been suggested?
When the leader of Boston2024 calls opponents "unpatriotic" and the Mayor of Boston calls opponents "not true members of the community" then they're just showing their true colors when they claim to be open-minded and listening.
Oh, and just because someone can't attend the meeting happening in their specific neighborhood or city on the day it happens, doesn't mean their opinion is less valid when they travel to another meeting that does fit their schedule. Or, in my case, Boston2024 doesn't even host one in my town because the mayor won't suck up to them.
***
By bibliotequetress
Fri, 05/22/2015 - 12:17am
People from the BHC have a good reason to have a presence at every event. I have not seen anyone from the Boston Homeless Coalition get in the speaker's line more than one time at a meeting, at the meetings I've attended. The people I referenced in my post were not from the homeless coalition.
I agree that anyone who does not have the opportunity to speak at one meeting should feel free to attend another. But not everyone can attend more than one meeting, and as they have been scheduled to be particularly inconvenient to anyone with kids, a lot of people struggle to get to even one. I thought the meetings were being held in different venues so that people who may not be able to easily travel across the city would have a chance to ask questions or speak for or against.
Furthermore, the Olympic proposal causes different problems in different places. If no one is interested in hearing a variety of locals question/comment on the specific challenges facing each town/neighborhood, then why bother to meet in more than one location?
And, my post was clearly not referring to people who have not had a chance to speak at meetings-- I cited people who actually spoke at meetings, so much that they have deprived other people the opportunity.
I blame the Boston 2024 Committee for this problem.
After the first meeting, they could have changed the comment-lottery system and allowed only local residents to have the mike for the first hour, then opened it up for the second. That could have prevented a lot of the problems, including much of what happened in the Storify post. That is a Boston 2024 failure, no one else'.
Using profanities against the NBO woman as mentioned in the Storify post is obnoxious, rude, and should not have been tolerated by the Boston 2024 Committee.
Allowing the same people to hog the mike repeatedly is counterproductive, inconsiderate of the other attendees time, and also should not be tolerated by the Boston 2024 Committee.
They are not equal-- speaking in a threatening manner to an attendee is much worse.
But they are two different issues. That some of the pro-Olympic people are horrid does not mean that the tactics of all the anti-Olympic people are beyond reproach.
no meeting scheduled for Brookline either?
By Ron Newman
Fri, 05/22/2015 - 6:40am
The bid proposes to use The Country Club as its golf venue, which would have significant impact on the town. But I see no meeting scheduled there.
I wonder why...
By CraigInDaVille
Thu, 05/21/2015 - 12:41pm
http://brookline.wickedlocal.com/article/20150325/...
As a kid I always wanted the
By eastiesveryown
Wed, 05/20/2015 - 6:04pm
As a kid I always wanted the Olympics to take center stage in Boston. I always felt like Boston was an underrated city when in ranking of popularity. As a young adult, I have many concerns about the Olympics. I still don't understand how they are selling this to us without having fully prepared a plan. Also shouldn't we the people decide if and how we want the Olympic games to take place in our city our commonwealth, not politicians and businessmen who are only in it for the money. Unfortunately the Olympics due to corrupt politicians will never be a financial success in this city. Only crooks bring their buddies or should I say their "muscle" to intimidate others and force their biased views and not hear the opposing side. Another thing that bothers me is that the only way to fix our crumbling infrastructure is the Olympics.....BS. What if another city wins the bid. It looks like were screwed either way. (PS.one thing I always noticed growing up here in Boston is why is almost every major building built but Suffolk construction. Coincidence, I don't think so.)
What a bunch of...
By JPNative617
Wed, 05/20/2015 - 6:25pm
wimps our society has become. Bullying? Jesus Christ, we're all adults, if someone calls you a fucking piece of shit, call them a fucking piece of shit back. But, no, people sit there and twiddle their fingers on social media because they're afraid of the big, scary man who's yelling. Toughen up.
p.s. I'm 100000% against Boston 2024.
Right, and so...
By lbb
Wed, 05/20/2015 - 6:46pm
...we're basically just giving up on civil discourse, and it's all about who can yell the loudest and longest. That about sum it up for you?
Honestly, you just went right off the unintentional irony charts with this one. I mean all the way off. Adults don't shout each other down and call each other names in a public forum that's designed to hear each other's point of view. And you've got the crust to suggest that it's the people who object to the childish behavior who lack maturity? You need to do some growing up yourself.
What civil discourse? The
By JPNative617
Wed, 05/20/2015 - 6:55pm
What civil discourse? The meeting sounded like an absolute disaster from the start. Once you're insulted from someone in the crowd while speaking, I'd say you have the chance to stand up for yourself and not take it on the chin.
The fact is, these people see Boston 2024 as their meal ticket - do you see any meeting both sides involved in being civil? I don't. I don't know what the fuss is all about anyway, there is ZERO chance the Olympics are coming here. These meetings and the organizations on both sides are for people with too much time on their hands.
What happened to making more friends with honey than vinegar
By Ari O
Wed, 05/20/2015 - 7:30pm
No, you don't match an ad hominem attack with another; that just brings you down to their level. What you do do is to firmly refuse to stand down and state your question and demand an answer. If they let you do that, you win. If they don't let you do that, you win.
I remember that story
By anon
Wed, 05/20/2015 - 8:20pm
Pooh just wandered around with a jar stuck on his head like the dumbass he is. All in all, not a bad comp for John Fish.
You must be a genius
By anon
Wed, 05/20/2015 - 7:04pm
In your wold, Which one of us gets to be piggie?
The Rush Limbaugh way. Yell
By anon
Thu, 05/21/2015 - 8:23am
The Rush Limbaugh way. Yell the loudest and then people think you're right. You should be able to debate, even heated, without acting like an asswipe.
Correct, the proper way is to
By smh
Thu, 05/21/2015 - 4:24pm
Correct, the proper way is to go in with an iron-clad, immovable opinion and patronizingly condescend to your opponent while all the while constantly patting yourself on the back for being an enlightened intellectual who truly believes you are smarter than anyone else on earth. Everyone knows local political forums are where the intellectual elite rain down wisdom on the loudmouth plebs.
It's the same coin. There's two sides ; )
Unbelievable
By anon
Wed, 05/20/2015 - 9:01pm
I really wish there was a way to put this thread on full blast to go viral. MANY people need to see this especially with The Walsh name attached. True thuggery
All the props in the world to whoever matched up the pictures to the offender. You should not, on any grounds, get away with this.
"True thuggery"...
By MatthewC
Wed, 05/20/2015 - 11:23pm
Wow, we've gotten soft :p
How-to
By anon
Thu, 05/21/2015 - 9:48am
Send it to all the local and state media, see who bites. Especially right-wing media; they'll follow the story just because of the union angle.
And, Twitter campaign. Hashtags to make it show up in the right places and @tags to get the right people to see it. (That's where Adam gets a lot of his news; people post @universalhub when they tweet.)
civic engagement
By anon
Wed, 05/20/2015 - 9:24pm
ironic that the mayor sent his director of civic engagement to the meeting
"...all white male panel"...
By MatthewC
Wed, 05/20/2015 - 10:38pm
Yes, we all know that white males are the spawn of the devil. Give it a rest. I don't want the olympics in Boston, as I've stated before, but to bring racial hatred into this? Classles.
Also, the "tweets" are seriously entertaining. Apparently men now have to walk on eggshells because certain women might feel threatened...and "triggered". I'm not playing this game. You want equality, yet you say men are all supposed to shut up because you you feel "threatened". Don't cower as soon as someone gets heated. This "Britni" is only using her claims of feeling threatened to her own ends. Scared rabbits is not what feminism was ever supposed to be.
I don't think she's saying they don't have the right to speak,
By ladycommentariat
Thu, 05/21/2015 - 7:38am
Just that they don't have the right to intimidate and insult people at a public meeting where people are supposed to act like adults.
Except that you are literally
By eggshells
Thu, 05/21/2015 - 4:37pm
Except that you are literally guaranteed that right in the constitution...
These "activist" types...
By MatthewC
Sat, 05/23/2015 - 9:36am
...don't understand freedom of speech. THEY dictate behavior, and don't ever forget it?
You've just proved everyone's
By anon
Thu, 05/21/2015 - 8:27am
You've just proved everyone's point of the panels not being diverse just by your comment.
No one said that white men shouldn't be on the panel. What they are saying is that so should women, black, Asian, Hispanic, etc. from ALL areas of the city.
Yes Dear Matthew; racism and misogyny does exist.
PS - This type of shit can cause trigger issues for survivors of abuse. Because guess what, that shit happens to women every day. Why not help the situation rather than continue it?
There were only two people on the panel
By merlinmurph
Thu, 05/21/2015 - 8:34am
Having two people satisfy other's diversity requirements would be tough.
I found that quote above a bit hard to swallow, too.
maybe there should have been more than 2 people on the panel?
By Ron Newman
Thu, 05/21/2015 - 8:36am
Yes Dear Matthew; racism and
By eggshells
Thu, 05/21/2015 - 4:35pm
Yes Dear Matthew; racism and misogyny does exist.
-a white woman
This type of shit can cause trigger issues for survivors of abuse. Because guess what, that shit happens to women every day. Why not help the situation rather than continue it?
Ever heard of exposure therapy? Probably a better long term solution than demanding everyone around you curtail speaking in non hushed tones about literally anything remotely controversial, but then again I'm not the one here arguing for "equality" lmao. In what world is yelling at a public forum in any way analogous to rape?
Well said!
By MatthewC
Sat, 05/23/2015 - 9:34am
I'm tired of having to walk on eggshells around people who revel in their emotional instability. We used to be tough and resilient in this country. Now, we have to abide this emotionally disturbed "Britni" character dictating how we're all supposed to act around her.
Correction...
By MatthewC
Sat, 05/23/2015 - 9:42am
"Racism and misogyny do exist." I just thought I'd fix that for you.
Listen, I'm sympathetic to anyone who has suffered abuse. In fact, I know plenty who don't use the abuse they endured as a tool to fight for their cause (I'm referring to the fact that she was apparently joking with her friends while at the same time claiming she was being intimidated by male thugs). Yeah, I know. I'm supposed to say, "Oh you poor thing..." and trip all over myself trying to make things as comfortable as possible for poor, cop hating "collectivist" Britni. Let me know if exercising my right to an opinion and free expression is threatening to anyone and if I should shut my mouth and step into line.
Almost there...
By erik g
Thu, 05/21/2015 - 9:23am
Guys, we are SO CLOSE on this thread. Can someone get markk in here so we can close this thing down?
[img]http://i.imgur.com/RXA5vPC.png[/img]
I feel so guilty "liking" this
By CraigInDaVille
Thu, 05/21/2015 - 9:44am
because of how sad and true it is, but hopefully this semi-serious jab can remind some of our regulars and anons of their ridiculousness.
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