Joined by district City Councilor Matt O'Malley, residents in the area of Weld and Centre streets once again told developers their proposed replacement for the collapsing old Weld-American gas station is just too big.
The latest proposal from the developers calls for 16 residential units and a commercial unit that would be limited through a deed restriction to professional use, for example, by a lawyer or accountant. An earlier design featured 17 residential units and no commercial space.
Although the four-story building meets zoning requirements for the West Roxbury Centre Street corridor, residents on Hazelmere Road behind the property said it would tower over their land, which sits in the Roslindale single-family-home zone, especially because the land slopes down from Centre towards their property.
Residents said a proposed roof deck would mean loud, disruptive parties that would reduce their property values. And they said the 26 parking spaces were just not enough. Especially when combined with the elimination of the illegal spaces in front of the gas station now, the result would mean a flood of cars parked on nearby residential streets, they said.
One resident expressed the fear that the rooftop HVAC units for the condos would vent a mist of deadly Legionnaire's Disease into the neighborhood below.
O'Malley and residents said they could probably support a three-story building, and said they were appreciative of the efforts to do something about the eyesore the gas station has been for more than 20 years - although one resident said the station has become even more of an eyesore in the year since John Sullivan and Gary Martell bought the property.
Martell said he's sitting on a $5.5-million bank loan and that he's not sure how much smaller he can go. He and his architect said city ordinances require they provide some sort of open space for the building's residents.
Martell said he could provide this through balconies on each of the units, but said that might be more intrusive for residents than a single roof deck. When residents said the difference is a roof deck could be used for rambunctious parties - one predicted police resources would be drained by the constant need to respond there - while balconies are too small for that, Martell questioned how the condo dwellers' parties would be any different than the ones residents of single-family homes could throw.
Like the job UHub is doing? Consider a contribution. Thanks!
Ad:
Comments
Oh come on. What's a little
By Steve A
Mon, 10/05/2015 - 9:25pm
Oh come on. What's a little disease-laden mist among neighbors?
It's a wonder
By anon
Mon, 10/05/2015 - 9:42pm
That anyone tries to build anything in this city
Cram, Cram, Cram
By anon
Tue, 10/06/2015 - 11:14am
Every developer with any size parcel thinks City Hall will give them a green light for as many units as possible to help Mayor Marty meet some numeric goal for new housing starts. This leads to developer greed bumping up against resistance from abutting neighbors when new development projects are out of scale with surroundings. Lots of folks in Roslindale don't trust the city any more after living with the size of the hulking building at the top of Washington and Beech or the four story box plopped next to single family homes at Robert and South Fairview Streets. Good urban planning isn't about cramming in maximum numbers of units anywhere. It's about ensuring good, compatible design. The city's record there doesn't inspire much confidence in these parts.
plopped next to single family
By anon
Wed, 10/07/2015 - 7:57am
You mean stuck between elevated train tracks and a daycare? The Washington development I'll give you, but the Roberts/South building looks fine and is hardly obtrusive.
My deeper question is this
By Waquiot
Wed, 10/07/2015 - 9:14am
The poster to which you reply is right that there are a lot of single family homes there. Whenever I am walking from Fallon Field, I ask why weren't 2 or 3 family houses built here, as it is steps to the Square and the train station?
Not sure what you mean. There
By Rob Not Verified
Wed, 10/07/2015 - 10:00am
Not sure what you mean. There are quite a few 2-3 family homes on that stretch and surrounding side streets. It's a good mix.
Specifically
By Waquiot
Wed, 10/07/2015 - 11:28am
40 South Fairview. Sure, it is not representative of the whole area, but considering almost all residential real estate in the area, it is so out of place as a single.
The rest of the block is a bit more built up, but for the location, more density wouldn't be a bad idea.
The Washington St. Development
By HenryAlan
Fri, 10/09/2015 - 9:47am
is just fine in my opinion. I give some credence to the Weld/Centre complaint about height placed above the slope*, but the Washington/Beach corner demonstrates the opposite side, with the smaller buildings rising up the slope above. It is far better than, say, the Pleasant Cafe's parking lot.
* On balance I favor the proposal, but I do acknowledge that particular concern as valid. I wonder whether it might be possible to maintain four stories in front, but then a step down to three in the rear.
Cram, Cram, Cram
By Walt Michalik
Sat, 10/17/2015 - 10:58pm
Very true.
In Fairness
By Fitz
Mon, 10/05/2015 - 10:21pm
To be fair, even the project's most ardent opponents in the room shook their head and looked bewildered by this comment.
Ah!
By adamg
Mon, 10/05/2015 - 10:32pm
I was in the front row and was not turned around at the time, so did not see the eye rolling.
Trying...not to...roll...eyes!
By Sally
Mon, 10/05/2015 - 10:23pm
Auuughhh! Can't help it. Honestly--16 units? For which 26 parking spots are not enough? Humongous? Legionnaires' Disease? Really--what do they want there aside from a decrepit gas station?
people prefer blight...
By teric
Tue, 10/06/2015 - 8:24am
...to change.
Take a recount
By anon
Fri, 11/06/2015 - 8:13pm
it's residential and 1 business unit. Add them you have 17 units They only change the zoning of one unit. The business unit gets 2 full parking spaces from the 1.5 parking space total.
What do we want, a project that can take care of the needs of it's tenants and not add to the already stressed infrastructure. .
MY GOD!
By anon
Mon, 10/05/2015 - 10:44pm
16 UNITS! THIS ISN'T ALLSTON, THIS IS WEST ROXBURY! WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN! WON'T SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!? AND THE ELDERLY! PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN AND THE ELDERLY!
Actually, Rozzie, but you
By anon
Tue, 10/06/2015 - 12:47am
Actually, Rozzie, but you know, whatever.
Is it?
By adamg
Tue, 10/06/2015 - 9:35am
Isn't that the area that managed to switch from 02131 to 02132? I think Yucatan Tacos now advertises itself as being in West Roxbury.
No, Simply put
By anon
Tue, 10/06/2015 - 9:42am
The boarder was the West Rox Pkwy and is now Centre. So across the street is West Rox while this site is Roslindale.
Maybe?
By ckollett
Tue, 10/06/2015 - 9:50am
It's still in 02131, but for some reason the BRA maps put that side of Centre Street in West Roxbury for just the two blocks between Ardale and Weld.
For example:
http://www.bostonredevelopmentauthority.org/getatt...
http://www.bostonredevelopmentauthority.org/getatt...
We will not let West Roxbury annex more of Roslindale
By Waquiot
Tue, 10/06/2015 - 2:31pm
The south side of Centre Street, which is where this project is, is definitely in Roslindale. The north side is Roslindale's Crimea, which should be in Roslindale but was taken away. Yucatan Taco's is in the area's Sevastapol region.
I've taken to running on the Roslindale side of Centre Street, patrolling to make sure West Roxbury is not building up forces to take more land. Ever vigilant.
Doesn't matter
By Stevil
Tue, 10/06/2015 - 5:53pm
Eventually the turkeys will outgrow Brookline and take over your Crimea, see you one Sevastapol and confiscate all of Roslindale. I'm sure the TLF will back me up on this. They are very strategic those fowl feathered friends.
I don't trust those turkeys
By Waquiot
Tue, 10/06/2015 - 11:37pm
Most of them went to CM, and they spend their Friday nights hanging out in the cemeteries on the Parkway. I think they are on the West Roxbury payroll.
Enough Is Enough
By BlackKat
Mon, 10/05/2015 - 10:53pm
Someone appoint me to the BRA so I can go all Le Corbusier on West Roxbury.
This is what I imagine the good folks at this meeting
By Sally
Mon, 10/05/2015 - 11:04pm
are imagining, if anyone else remembers this wonderful book...
http://100bookseverychildshouldreadbeforegrowingup...
*Roslindale
By bgl
Tue, 10/06/2015 - 12:49am
*Roslindale
If anyone is still wondering
By MattL
Tue, 10/06/2015 - 6:10am
If anyone is still wondering if the BRA has gone a little rudderless, on the one hand we have projects steamrolled into neighborhoods, and on the other hand we have complaints about four story "towers" and disease carrying HVAC units being taken seriously. Maybe it's time for some new planning documents, huh?
What a bunch of jerkoffs
By Will LaTulippe
Mon, 10/05/2015 - 11:06pm
"Wahhh, my property values!" (Expletive) off. The property is worth $0 if it isn't for sale, and you need shelter, since you're (at least ostensibly) a human being.
I didn't tell you to outbid everybody else for a Boston address. That's your problem. Everybody has the human right to shelter, and everybody has the right to try and be a Bostonian. If somebody wants to be a loud drunken schmuck outdoors, that's happening whether there's a roof deck or not.
"One predicted police resources would be drained by the constant need to respond there." Funny, I thought Bostonians were supposed to be smart. I read quotes like this and wonder how the (expletive) this city ever earned that reputation.
If only there was a voice of reason
By JohnAKeith
Tue, 10/06/2015 - 12:53am
If only there was a voice of reason, like someone from the city who coul... oh, wait, what? Joking!
For those wanting to know more about this, check out the BRA's website where you can see renderings as well as get an idea of what the neighborhood looks like.
The developer seems to do a good job. There are photos of other projects and they seem well designed and look sturdy. (Disappointed that there's above-ground parking for aesthetic reasons, and because it means fewer units, but can understand the reason for doing so - mainly, cost to build an underground garage.)
This project certainly doesn't look out of place, at least from Centre and Weld streets. I can at least understand one of the criticisms, that, as you point out, neighbors fear the condos would "tower" over their own homes, due to the hill and the four-stories of height.
The parking requirement is simply ridiculous. Who has a car these days, let alone 1.5? (Did you notice the bus stop just across Weld Street?)
Gotta say, if/when they build this, if you're thinking of buying one of the condos, be damned sure they did what they were supposed to do when taking out the buried oil tanks (the PNF says they will do "remedial" work). I say this as a friend, I'm not giving real estate advice.
Images (from the BRA filing) http://imgur.com/a/lkM4h
There's the rub
By adamg
Tue, 10/06/2015 - 8:12am
As residents said, it looks fine from across Centre Street. The issue is the back end of the project, which sits on a rise atop a neighborhood of single-family homes. So a four-story building effectively becomes a five-story building from their perspective, just a few feet from the property line (8 feet, I think).
It's an interesting issue: There's no buffer here between a commercially zoned district, where buildings can butt up against each other (in fact, it's encouraged, to avoid gaps in the "complete streets" the city wants) and a district zoned for single-family homes.
As somebody who lives in a single-family home, I can sympathize (and breathe a sigh of relief that the fact that all the lots around us are developed and occupied and we live on a hill so we'll never have to worry about this). It's maybe not quite as bad as some horror show like Framingham, where you go from the overbuilt mega-mallness of Rte. 9 to what seems like rural countryside in the space of half a block, but, no, this is not Comm. Ave. in Allston, it's not even really Centre Street: It's the wooded (on the aerial photos the developer used, the streets had to be shown as gray lines, because you can't see the actual streets for all the trees), low-density area behind it.
The developers are absolutely right that they're not to blame for the way the zoning is, but you can see why the residents might be concerned. And, as always, a hearty screw-you to people from higher-density areas with attitude: Not everybody in Boston lives in apartment or condo towers, this is a big enough city to support both high and low-density areas and it gets tiring to read how people in single-family homes are somehow less worthy as human beings.
interesting...
By teric
Tue, 10/06/2015 - 8:29am
..but no idea how you arrived at the last sentence. It's primarily people in SF homes that have the clout in these neighborhoods to kill these projects. less worthy, Adam, really?
also, how are we doing on our 30,000 new homes countdown in the next decade or so? anyone keeping track? clearly no one downtown is.
IMHO, this seems like a reasonable project.
Not in this case
By anon
Fri, 11/06/2015 - 8:08pm
The home owners do not have the clout. The change of the street address to Weld instead of Center was to avoid a variance in which a previous developer didn't do and didn't get their project approved since the address didn't provide enough distance between the building and the homes. This project change the address to avoid this and thus are building very close to homes.
The SF homeowners have no clout and their concerns are not taken seriously and it's more than the noise, exhaust and a roof top deck. The neighbors want the right project not an over grown box that stresses the neighborhood's infrastructure without discussing ways to improve it. The city needs to do better than just give the green light.
Erm...
By Sally
Tue, 10/06/2015 - 9:31am
I don't recall the "less than human beings" bit and I can see from the looking-up rendering why they're concerned. But for Pete's sake...aren't they currently a scant few hundred feet from a very busy road? And again--it was a gas station, not a meadow. I'm honestly asking--do they want another gas station there? If not a measly 16 condos then what?
I remember the kerfuffle years ago when the firehouse on the flat of Beacon Hill (later of Real World fame) was made into a community center and the abutters were freaking out that it might be used for... dance classes. Like...well, isn't that a bit quieter than the fire engines you lived with for years?
So yes, I do get a bit impatient with the snowflakiness of it all. They are not putting in a new subway line or a discotheque and its Roslindale, not Vermont.
Scroll up a bit
By adamg
Tue, 10/06/2015 - 9:40am
For the OH MY GOD and jerkoff comments.
Well...
By Sally
Tue, 10/06/2015 - 10:16am
Consider the source.:)
What we want
By anon
Fri, 11/06/2015 - 8:31pm
Actually, it was recommend to reduce the building from 4 stories to 3 stories. A reduction of the number units (total meaning both residential and business). Because the zoning says you can build a 35 feet building it doesn't mean you have to use all 35 feet. We asked for 2 parking spaces for each units. We ask for a more reasonable size building and but the developers return with the same plans but only 200 square feet smaller, lets see that maybe two rooms smaller. The changes have only been made to the front of the building with little impact to the back which impacts the abutters.
We want something built that is reasonable, not something built because there is an empty space and that the developers will go to the maximum and the minimum in different areas and still not listen to the neighborhood. There were plenty of ideas and suggestions made even to overcome some of the problems.
We don't want an empty gas station and like to see the see the area utilized. There was a rumor of a Gardening Florist Shoppe to open and there was much excitement to see the space used. So no we don't want the empty gas station but we would like to see the right project built not a building being built with little thought of the impact.
Yes there is opposition but we've been willing to meet the developers part way. We have found the developers' changes to be minimal and finding ourselves going over the same opposition.
It all comes down to zoning.
By whyaduck
Tue, 10/06/2015 - 8:59am
I have little sympathy for folks who purchase homes not knowing what could be built next to their property. I live in a mixed area; commercial buildings up against single family and homes with apartments. I have lived in another town that also did not have this buffer. It is not an unique issue.
I am a bit confused by your last sentence; I always thought it was the apartment dwellers who were viewed as "somehow less worthy as human beings." At least that is my experience reading folk's posts and attending those wonderful meetings like the one going on for this potential development project.
(And, Sally, you make very good points.)
OMG
By roadman
Tue, 10/06/2015 - 9:29am
I can see a BUILDING above a neighborhood of homes.
Three words - GET A LIFE!
Winter
By ElizaLeila
Tue, 10/06/2015 - 9:46am
This will be a problem in winter, but come summer when those trees fill in, less of a problem. The rendered photo showed the worst case scenario. Those trees are pretty tall and from the angle across the street it looks bad, but get into those back yards and it's less of a problem.
DEP
By ElizaLeila
Tue, 10/06/2015 - 9:58am
If it wasn't already done, notification with the DEP will have to be in order to dig and build the foundations. The developer will have to hire an LSP to handle any hazardous materials in the soils.
This is all public knowledge and can be researched on the DEP website for the address in question. I don't have time right now, otherwise I could do that for you guys.
Bus Stop
By anon
Fri, 11/06/2015 - 8:49pm
The parking requirement is simply ridiculous. Who has a car these days, let alone 1.5? (Did you notice the bus stop just across Weld Street?)
Nearly everyone in this area own 2 or more cars.
Yes there is a bus stop on Weld Street, the 52 and yes there is a bus on Centre Street the 38. They don't run regularly and there is no service on Sunday. The 38 bus runs close to 2 hours apart after 7 and stops about 11:30 PM. The 52 bus stops about 10:30 PM. Hardly the bus schedule that would support someone needing to use public transportation.
This issues was raised during the meeting and posed to the city representative and the BRA representative about increasing and improving public transportation in the area to support less car traffic and making the city and area more accessible.
What the BRA Told Me
By Stevil
Tue, 10/06/2015 - 1:20am
Or at least one official a couple of years ago. She said that as trying as it may be to get large projects (measured in dozens of floors) approved downtown - the western neighborhoods are the worst.
It sounds like this developer is building completely as of right. How the hell does anyone (O'Malley included whom I normally like) have the cajones to come in and tell someone - yes, you have every right under the law to build four stories - but we only want 3 - especially a city official. If he wants 3 - then the city has to pay him for the lost units. At some point the developer should just tell them to stick it - although his project may magically go poof in the night if he does that.
Boston needs close to 3000 units of housing a year, ESPECIALLY in areas like West Roxbury where slightly more affordable units can be built. We can't afford to be downzoning low density areas. Even downtown neighborhoods in high density areas are working proactively with the city to see where we can reasonably upzone or we won't even be able to keep up with demand, much less get any kind of a relief from rapidly rising prices and rents,
Oh, God, I'm defending Westie ...
By adamg
Tue, 10/06/2015 - 8:26am
There are parts of West Roxbury that could support increased density: Centre Street and Washington Street (in fact, there's a new apartment building going up right now on Washington near Grove - it's replacing a single-family house on a large lot).
Same for Roslindale and Forest Hills - look at the buildings now going up in Roslindale and across from the Arborway bus depot.
At some point, somebody is going g to have to figure out what to do about the chokepoint that Washington Street from Rozzie Square to Forest Hills has become, but that's maybe another discussion.
Roberts St
By anon
Tue, 10/06/2015 - 9:15am
A good example of a relatively successful project is the condos next to the train station on Roberts St. While one neighbor complained, that project proceeded with a minimum of fuss and added what, 12 new apartments to the neighborhood.
I have sympathy for the people who are adjacent to the building site but I don't see how you can accommodate that kind of grade concern easily into zoning. It's similar to how at one of the Tony's Market meetings, a woman complained about that new building next to Bani's on Washington. No doubt it negatively impacted the people downhill of it, but it got built anyways, adding three more units to the inventory. Some times people are negatively impacted and it can't always be helped.
Steamrolled on Roberts Street
By anon
Tue, 10/06/2015 - 12:06pm
There was a LOT of neighborhood opposition to Roberts Street but the project was approved hastily, with very little community process, and the sneaky way this thing went down (or went up) left a lot of bitterness in its wake among people who were here at the time. Just go ask the people who live around it. The outcome and the lack of an open process made people angry, bitter and cynical.
A lot?
By anon
Tue, 10/06/2015 - 2:49pm
I remember one person complained about the shade on her garden. What was the community process lacking, the ability to say no? By live around it, do you mean the daycare center or farther over towards Fallon Field?
People in Roslindale are either angry, bitter or cynical or ill-informed utopians it seems from the meetings I've attended. Or maybe a mix of both. To review then:
Roberts St - angry neighbors
Substation - angry locals about traffic impact
Belgrade Crossing - angry locals
Beech/Washington triple decker - angry neighbors.
Weld American - angry neighbors
West Rox. inhaler factory - angry 'neighbors' even though no-one actually lives next to the site.
Etc...
BTW, I've been 'here' for 10 years and that was my go to gas station.
SO HENCE ALL THE ANGRY
By ROSSI RAT
Fri, 10/09/2015 - 10:12pm
SO HENCE ALL THE ANGRY NEIGHBORS GUESS YOU SHOULD IGNORE THE COMMUNITY AND BUILD WHAT EVER YOU WANT.EVERYONE OF THOSE DEVELOPMENTS LOOK THE SAME, PEOPLE DONT WANT LARGE APARTMENT UNITS.IT IS ZONED THAT WAY FOR A REASON TO KEEP IT THE WAY IT IS, IF YOU DONT LIKE IT DONT MOVE THERE, THERE ARE PLENTY OF HI RISES DOWNTOWN, AND JUST BECAUSE MARTY SAYS WE NEED TYO ADD SO MANY UNITS , WHO IS HE TO FORCE DOWN THE COMMUNIITY 'S THROAT
Proper punctuation, capitalization, grammar and spelling
By SwirlyGrrl
Fri, 10/09/2015 - 11:09pm
These are all helpful to getting your point across.
Hey, hey, HEY now
By Waquiot
Fri, 10/09/2015 - 11:46pm
The poor guy only has a short break from his job at the National Weather Service to gripe about the state of Roslindale. He ain't got no time for things like spelling, grammar, and punctuation.
At some point, somebody is
By anon
Tue, 10/06/2015 - 10:33am
EXPAND THE ORANGE LINE
South Street
By anon
Tue, 10/06/2015 - 11:15am
Make South Street a combination of bike lane and dedicated shuttle bus route, just running back and forth to from Forrest Hills to the intersection with Washington. I suspect the residents South St might not like it, but c'est la vie.
Or, just have one bus which stops between Adams Park and Forrest Hills - every other bus on Washington St is an 'express' to FH, reducing the amount of starting/stopping buses on the street.
Or put a monorail or gondola system above the Needham Line from FH to the Square.
Pages