We only get one Big Dig, state declares: MassDOT and the board that now runs the T agreed today that they're not going to pay any more for the Green Line Extension than the state's already committed to, so if the project's costs can't be shrunk by a billion dollars or so, it's dead, unless "other sources" come up with the extra money, and by "other sources" they mean cities that really want the thing (both of them), landowners and developers that would benefit from being right on the proposed line.
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Comments
Chucking Farley strikes again
By anon
Mon, 12/14/2015 - 4:57pm
Elections have consequences. Faker is just getting started. And shame on Pollack for renouncing everything she used to stand for.
The Globe Is Now Reporting Late Night Service Will Be Eliminated
By Elmer
Mon, 12/14/2015 - 5:24pm
[sup] This governor can't seem to figure out how to make anything work properly.[/sup]
While the late night service
By anon
Mon, 12/14/2015 - 7:28pm
While the late night service would be good the smaller number of late night employees, that alone would not sustain it.
Boston's long term status as one of America's leading cities does not hinge on the ability of some people to take the train home at late hours after a night of fun. Plenty of people will take everything else Boston offer over the fact that many of the smaller cities that people are leaving offer later night business hours. Boston has the right mix of things for plenty of people willing to pay for it because their home states couldn't produce enough jobs or education.
It enriches the city
By bgl
Mon, 12/14/2015 - 9:29pm
Plus keeps a few drunks off the road. It was yet again setup to fail, but to keep even this limited service only cost 14 million, making the entire thing cost 10-11 million total to run per year - pennies to the 2 billion operating budget to enrish the city and give one more option on weekends. Plus the people working late at night who were able to use it to go to work.
It is still not going to be
By anon
Mon, 12/14/2015 - 11:44pm
It is still not going to be anything that makes Boston significantly better or worse. Enriches the city is a very vague statement.
you've heard of shift workers, right?
By anon
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 1:51am
You know, the people who don't work 9-5? They need to get places, too. Late night service isn't just about "getting home from the bar."
"good the smaller number of
By anon
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 7:17am
"good the smaller number of late night employees"
This was addressed the first sentence of the post. Read them before you reply to them.
You sound like you've never
By anon
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 9:05am
You sound like you've never even taken the T, let alone late at night. What the hell is your last sentence about out-of-state people is even supposed to mean?
Rode it for work actually.
By anon
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 6:41pm
Rode it for work actually. The out of state comment means that people who come from the vast majority of cities in the country that are not as desirable in Boston are hardly speaking from experience about what makes a city great.
It's not for you to decide
By DavidD
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 11:50am
It's not for you to decide the multitude of ways a person could rely on the T, late night or otherwise. The point of late service is to offer the Boston metro population a reliable method to transport themselves for any purpose they dream up. When you open up the possibility of transport at any hour, you let your people decide how they can best use that availability. This is clearly the case in cities that have grown because of their reliable 24 hr train systems -- New York and Tokyo come to mind. Business grows, workers have more hours to earn wages, entertainment expands, researchers can do more research, and so on. Growth cities don't shut down.
It's for the market to decide
By anon
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 6:44pm
It's for the market to decide, and the market did not demonstrate sufficient demand to make the state eager to keep it.
Boston doesn't need to experience massive growth in order to be a very desirable place, it's very established already. It is not a Southern or Midwestern city. If you want a growth city move elsewhere to a place where the local economies have to develop more.
ugh
By cybah
Mon, 12/14/2015 - 9:40pm
Late Night service was good as gone as soon as it hit the chopping block. Not really surprising..
What's sad is there's really a need, and it's not just for the bar goers.
Case in point, I was having a discussion with someone just the other day about the need for 24 hour service and gave a prime example.
The T has these special 'first run' buses that run 30 minutes or more BEFORE subway service starts in the morning. Some of these are the 57, 89, 93, and the 117. (I know there's more of these, but these are what i can remember off the top of my head). These buses (the ones I listed above) all 'converge' at Haymarket so people can make connections to them to get where they are going long before a train ever rolls down the tracks.
There reason why I bring this up is that Saturday morning, I had to ride the first 117 for a work emergency. The 117 departs Wonderland (@4:30), follows its same route via Chelsea Center (@4:45) to Maverick (@4:55), then continues on to Haymarket (to meet the convergence of buses @5:03), and does return trip via Logan (@5:17). And the bus was packed to the gills with people and was standing room only. And it's all service workers.. people going to work. And this was a Saturday!
It's always like this.. I've rode this particular bus before, since it is the first bus out in the morning from Chelsea. And the next bus (a 111) isn't for until 5:15. Plus once we get to Haymarket there's a mad dash to make your connection to other buses (they do typically wait for all the buses to show up so people can make their connection), so there's a big need.
The regular buses (non-late night) at night aren't any better. I can't tell you how many times that I've been on a standing room only 111 or 116 last run of the night.
So there's a definite need for late night.. or better.. all night service, even if its a few extended bus routes that run hourly (yeah yeah I know.... Night Owl but this would be different). It's sad that it's going to go, there's definitely a need there for the service workers. But whatever, it doesn't seem like the T or Baker and his team care all that much about getting this to work. Sad.
World Class, Baby!
I remember back in my college
By J
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 9:48am
I remember back in my college days, after a night of drunk fun, waiting at South Station for the first Red Line of the day on a Sunday.
It was packed. Standing room only. 99% appeared to be people on their way to or from work.
Try getting from Providence to Boston
By GoSoxGo
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 11:19am
on a Sunday morning. The first train on Sundays leaves Providence at 11:20 am. Let me repeat that. The first train on Sundays leaves Providence at 11:20 am. Sure, you could take Amtrak from Providence (at 6:56 or 10:25), but it is impossible for anyone who wants to board at a commuter rail stop.
How bad is that? The Patriots train leaves TF Green at 10:30 and Providence at 11:00 this Sunday. Earlier than the first trip to Boston. Sad.
This just hardball to get the
By anon
Mon, 12/14/2015 - 5:37pm
This just hardball to get the contractors to renogtiate. They inflated the price and they state is demanding a return to planet earth
That may be, but unfortunately ...
By adamg
Mon, 12/14/2015 - 5:46pm
This state has a 50-year history of reneging on Green Line projects (at least we no longer have the Green Line station at Forest Hills to remind us of all the money the T put into "fixing" the Arborway line it had no intention of re-opening), so it's hard to be optimistic.
I have to agree and thus
By RhoninFire
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 12:57am
I have to agree and thus thumbs up both here.
On one hand, it is extremely true that this is overpriced by nothing else than contractors price gouging. The Amateur Planner said it best with his comparison. There is absolutely no way in hell this project should cost this much. This indicates that this project can very well be able to be contracted out and done at a billion dollar less than the current projection. From this view, it would be disgusting if we resolve this by finding more funds to pay for it. It would be basically agreeing to let them rob us - and we even went to the bank to withdraw more money to let them take after they sucked everything from the house.
But at the same time. It is absolutely scary that we are playing with full-on cancellation. That when we look at the history of the MBTA, we can't really take confidence that the outcome will the ideal scenario where the contractor backs down from their absurd price and we get GLX built in a reasonable price (well for recent American standards). Getting GLX built at an absurd, massively inefficient cost is terrible. But not getting GLX at all isn't a great prize either.
What happened to the legal obligation?
By FredQuimby
Mon, 12/14/2015 - 4:59pm
Tied to the big dig?
Let the lawsuits begin
By anon
Mon, 12/14/2015 - 5:02pm
This sucks in every way possible. But that's what you get when you elect a Republican.
And the T dithered on this
By anon
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 8:08am
And the T dithered on this project while a Democrat was governor, and these costs surely started ballooning back then, too. (It came to light only a few months into Baker's term.) But don't let that stop you from grinding your axe.
The legal obligation ...
By adamg
Mon, 12/14/2015 - 5:04pm
That came about through a lawsuit by the Conservation Law Foundation? Man, if only Stephanie Pollack hadn't left that group.
Went The Way Of The Arborway Trains
By BlackKat
Mon, 12/14/2015 - 5:22pm
Give them a few years and they will start ripping up the GLX tracks.
People have theorized, both
By anon
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 8:01am
People have theorized, both with Night Owl and now the current late night service, that the main reason the T intentionally killed it is because it was an outside idea that was pushed on them, not something they came up with themselves.
Has anyone thought possibly the T is doing the same thing with all these "legally" obligated projects? Maybe the environmental types should've tried to work with the T rather than forcing these projects on them; if so, we'd probably have the north-south rail link, red-blue connector, and GLX by now.
Except you assume the T
By J
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 9:50am
Except you assume the T management has the best interests of the riders and of the economy in mind.
They dont.
Honestly half the people working in any given transit agency would love to get rid of riders because it makes their trains slow down.
Imagine that!
By geep9
Mon, 12/14/2015 - 5:09pm
You appoint a "fiscal" control board and it cuts things. Talk about pre-determined.
Is this real?
By issacg
Mon, 12/14/2015 - 5:11pm
This does not look like any resolution that I ever saw in nearly a decade of public sector work. On a related matter, what is with the specific reference to the Boston Metropolitan Planning Organization? I don't remember the MPO ever being known as the place to go when you need, say, a quarter or a half of a billion dollars.
Here's another media outlet's version
By adamg
Mon, 12/14/2015 - 5:22pm
Transit officials won’t commit additional state money to Green Line extension.
The MPO is the organization
By KBHer
Mon, 12/14/2015 - 11:55pm
The MPO is the organization through which all Federal funding is programmed. In addition to Federally programmed funding, the MPO is also allotted money from the Highway Trust Fund that can be programmed by the MPO for MPO priorities. Most of that money is tied up in supporting local roads, but a significant amount is available for "flex funds" which can be dispensed for road, transit, or other priorities as seen fit. In a narrow sense, the FMCB is talking about the money allotted by the MPO for the extension from College Ave to Rt 16 (which was the initial scope of GLX until being cleaved back to Medford Hillside in 2006/2007). That was adopted in the latest Transportation Improvement Program (TIP), but is obviously going to be cannibalized for the current iteration of College Ave.
Rep. Capuano on Greater Boston tonight?
By issacg
Mon, 12/14/2015 - 5:16pm
Also, I thought that I heard that Braude was going to have Rep. Capuano on Greater Boston this evening. Anyone have any idea of when that program is taped (or if it's live) and whether this "announcement" will make the cut in time for discussion on the program?
I won't speak for the good representative, but if I was instrumental in getting a billion federal dollars allocated a major project in my district, only to have my state "partner" fall down on (nearly every aspect of) its end of the deal, boy would I be pissed.
I've found
By geep9
Mon, 12/14/2015 - 5:20pm
His comments in the past on this issue to rather mushy.
Greater Boston
By FenRes
Mon, 12/14/2015 - 6:20pm
The show is usually taped between 5:00-5:30.
Does
By MostlyHarmless
Mon, 12/14/2015 - 5:20pm
This affect the new bike path, or is that on separate funds?
It's probably going to see some changes
By ScipioA
Mon, 12/14/2015 - 5:51pm
There's a presentation on the T's site with options to shave costs from the project as a whole and it looks like the community path extension would be moved to the north side of the tracks and would lose the elevated part approaching Cambridge. At least they haven't cut it fully yet.
The options in the
By anon
Mon, 12/14/2015 - 7:18pm
The options in the presentation by Arup seem like reasonable ways to extend the Green Line for less cost. They may have taken a Cadillac approach to everything. The chart on page 9 is astounding — the cost per mile is generally 4X to 15X other light rail projects.
I scoffed a bit at light night thing
By boo_urns
Mon, 12/14/2015 - 8:05pm
The only analysis I read on it was that "it failed." There has to be a more in depth report or what have you on it, right? Else, it just comes off as "eh, label it a failure so we don't have to keep funding it"...an easy way to slash the budget.
Embarrassing for all involved
By Kinopio
Mon, 12/14/2015 - 5:34pm
Embarrassing for all involved. Expanding public transportation is a must if the region is going to grow and improve.
Of course the T will cut late night subway service and raise fares next year and car drivers will continue to pay less and less in gas tax. All dumb ideas.
You don't even have to wait until next year
By ScipioA
Mon, 12/14/2015 - 5:52pm
They cut late night T service at today's meeting as well, sounds like that will end in January or February.
The region is doing just fine
By anon
Mon, 12/14/2015 - 7:23pm
The region is doing just fine considering it has one of the strongest economies in the country, and there are limits to growth which some people don't want to acknowledge.
Sure, the train would be nice, but keep some perspective that Boston is already one the nicest and most dynamic areas in the country. That's why so many people pay a premium to live here and do whatever they can to leave behind other states.
Copy and pasted the exact
By bgl
Mon, 12/14/2015 - 10:47pm
Copy and pasted the exact same reply anon? Getting lazy. Ever think that maybe it is because if our strong transportation system that we have been able to come back and be competitive at the global and national level?
Lazy is attacking a message
By anon
Mon, 12/14/2015 - 11:50pm
Lazy is attacking a message without trying to actual refute it, and calling something exactly the same when it isn't.
The universities, hospitals, tradition of public quality of public education, geography, and diversified economy is far more important to the states economy than our public transportation. The trains and subways are useful, but you can put them in many other cities and it wont improve them much at all. Boston just has the right mix, and has had them for a long time.
Lazy is suggesting that "just
By Sean117
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 8:38am
Lazy is suggesting that "just fine" is good enough.
It isn't.
Make it better, instead of pretending everything is already perfect.
Posture all you want.
By anon
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 6:45pm
Posture all you want. Everyone want's it to be better, unfortunately nice things cost money.
The trains and subways are
By Kinopio
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 9:58am
The trains and subways are much more than "useful". They are critical. Take them away and no one would ever get to work. People would waste an incalculable amount of money and time trying to get around with tens of thousands of more cars now on the road. The air would become unhealthier to breathe and fatalities would spike with the increase in cars.
You shouldn't start your
By anon
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 6:49pm
You shouldn't start your argument a absolutely ridiculous straw man. No one is suggesting people take away the trains. You aren't even talking about the topic at hand, which is late night service.
Until you can't get to
By GoSoxGo
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 10:02am
the universities, hospitals, schools and workplaces without sitting in gridlocked traffic 18 hours a day, which is what will happen unless we adequately fix, fund and maintain our public transportation system.
Fixing and maintain does not
By anon
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 6:55pm
Fixing and maintain does not necessarily mean adding many more stops. It can mean adding more trains or improving existing lines. There's little question Somerville would benefit from the stops, but if the money can't be sorted out it's a big challenge.
Also, instead of Somerville the state could be looking at improving the train out to Worcester and Fitchburg, or adding more stops in far flung suburbs. Not everyone who works in Boston lives in the highly desired inner suburbs.
Economic resiliency.
By KBHer
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 12:18am
Economic resiliency.
This comes down to economic resiliency, The MBTA is critical to the functioning of the city's economy - the train wouldn't just be "nice", GLX determines whether or not Somerville can develop as both a commuter town and an economic center in its own right. It's a critical project for that city, and a project where the city of Somerville hasn't been a perfect, but they haven't been the ones who got so absurdly fleeced by a contractor. That's on the State and no one should accept the State pleading incompetence as the reason for why a project that's been on the drawing boards since the early 1900s (seriously....GLX was identified as a rapid transit-ready extension over a 100 yards ago) can't come to pass.
With GLX, there's a release valve in Somerville for residents and business that can't afford downtown rent. With GLX, Union Square and Brickbottom have the services to expand as employment clusters. Without it, major economic development is confined to Cambridge and downtown Boston which doesn't allow the effects of a successful economy to spread beyond property price increases and doesn't allow peripheral cities to secure their economic futures. If and when we go through another downturn, the lack of GLX will be far more stark than it is today.
Somerville is already
By anon
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 12:28am
Somerville is already enormously more expensive than it was even just 15 years ago. It's an extremely desirable and trendy place to live, and it's hardly an affordable alternative to most places in the region. No one is owed a place to live there when there are so many other communities. The trains may indeed be very beneficial, but Summerville is not some isolated community. There are plenty of other towns that could use the extension of the commuter rail in this state, but they aren't the trendy communities everyone pictures themselves living in.
I'm not entirely sure anyone
By boo_urns
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 9:17am
I'm not entirely sure anyone ever made the argument that they were "owed" a place to live, but I'm curious to know what community/ies are as low hanging of fruit as Somerville and the GLX that could possibly give the ROI that Somerville offers.
It's not to say that those communities don't need development and access, but the GLX provides the opportunity for Somerville, the Greater Boston Region, and the State. It is a very promising area for communal and economic growth.
The trendiness and rent increases over the past 15 years speak for themselves, eh?
Orange Line extension south,
By anon
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 10:12am
Orange Line extension south, possibly? I don't think you'd net as many riders but the development itself would be a fair amount cheaper, and you're replacing a ton of operating costs with the bus corridors, so in raw ROI it's extremely low-hanging.....
Somerville is doubtlessly number 1, though, in terms of rides a day and decreasing strain elsewhere in the system. I wouldn't be surprised if, if Somerville/Medford end up fighting this, Cambridge and Arlington and any other commutes-to-redline towns don't join them -- the GLX will provide massive improvements in the RL on that side of the city.
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