By adamg on Mon., 12/14/2015 - 4:51 pm
We only get one Big Dig, state declares: MassDOT and the board that now runs the T agreed today that they're not going to pay any more for the Green Line Extension than the state's already committed to, so if the project's costs can't be shrunk by a billion dollars or so, it's dead, unless "other sources" come up with the extra money, and by "other sources" they mean cities that really want the thing (both of them), landowners and developers that would benefit from being right on the proposed line.
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Extending the Red Line out to
By anon
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 11:52pm
Extending the Red Line out to Arlington would shorten the commute for people who drive dozens of miles to Alewife.
"The trendiness and rent increases over the past 15 years speak for themselves, eh?"
They suggest that Somerville has been quite well regardless and other communities should have the same opportunities.
Extending the Red Line out to
By boo_urns
Wed, 12/16/2015 - 12:01pm
Extending the Red Line out to Arlington was originally proposed instead of ending at Alewife. People in Arlington fought it tooth and nail.
Somerville's opportunity might not be unique, and many other communities may need development, but I still think that Somerville's presents one of the best opportunities for community and economic development over any of the other communities you mentioned.
If Somerville has already been doing "quite well", imagine how much better it can do (for itself, and the State), if this development is realized.
There are plenty of other
By KBHer
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 9:51am
Extensions that are expected to generate 52,000 trips per day? No there aren't. The CR network has also been expanded by over 100 revenue miles in the past 25 years while the rapid transit network has remained in its current configuration - the suburbs have received more than enough CR pork already. Let's also disabuse ourselves of the notion that the CR is an economic development tool - it is not, over 71% of CR riders already make 75k+ per year (53% make 100k+). The CR is for rich suburbanites too fed up with the auto commute, it offers nowhere near the across-the-board benefit that rapid transit does.
But you're making my point. Somerville has become on expensive place to live. Nobody works there however. Only 17% of Somerville's resident workforce remains in the town (over 50% go to Boston or Cambridge) which is one of the lowest ratios inside 128. And Somerville is well-positioned to actually integrate with the economy beyond just acting as an increasingly chi-chi commuter town. GLX, rapid transit, is the only thing, however, that can deliver enough people, efficiently enough, to create economic clusters of substantial size. It's nothing to do with trendy, it's about regional economics.
"Extensions that are expected
By anon
Wed, 12/16/2015 - 12:18am
"Extensions that are expected to generate 52,000 trips per day?"
You contradict yourself and make my point for me. Somerville, as you've suggested is already completely built out and mostly residential. There isn't a huge amount of open space to create a ton of commercial space that will substantial change the percentage of commuters. Not everyone has to work in the same town where they live. The trains would be good but they would mostly serve to bolster the property values of people who already live there.
"the suburbs have received more than enough CR pork already"
The commuter rail makes it possible in far flung towns to avoid using a car nearly as much, which is what this topic started as. This will be very important to prevent in inner suburbs from having the only reasonable commutes.
"Let's also disabuse ourselves of the notion that the CR is an economic development tool"
You must not have looked at real estate in the suburbs, where the commuter rail is widely considered a selling point. The real estate prices have already factored it in.
"The CR is for rich suburbanites too fed up with the auto commute"
Tell that to people who live in Fitchburg or Lowell, you sound very out of touch.
"over 71% of CR riders already make 75k+ per year"
What is the mean wage of a person who has bough property in Somerville in the last 10 years? Probably very high.
75K for commuter rail riders is not much higher than the mean average wage in this state.
"It's nothing to do with trendy, it's about regional economics."
Plenty of people who bought into the rapidly gentrifying Somerville in recent years did so for walkability and thought that the state was going to pay to make their already very successful town even more ideal.
Somerville
By El Danimal
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 10:39am
has the highest population density in the state, and is directly adjacent to downtown Boston. You don't think it's a pretty good candidate for public transit investment?
The gas tax increased last
By anon
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 8:12am
The gas tax increased last year. What the voters rejected was the part of the new law that allowed the Legislature to make future gas tax increases possible without any sort of popular oversight; letting unelected technocrats in Washington (those who set the CPI) determine Massachusetts' future taxes, that is. It was an irresponsible and spineless way of ensuring permanent tax increases, and the voters saw through it. And threw it out.
But don't stop spreading lies. I'll keep posting this kind of response each time I see them.
And you will look foolish
By Kinopio
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 10:08am
And you will look foolish each time you post it.
I shouldn't have to explain such basic math to an adult but here you go, anon: lack of a substantial increase in gas tax (FOR DECADES NOW!) + inflation + increase in costs + cars using less gas per mile = drivers paying less in gas tax.
Auto fees only cover half of the budget. People who don't even drive have to pay for roads they don't use because many drivers are so cheap and short sighted and certain politicians are in the pocket of oil and auto corporations.
Meanwhile subway users have had their fare doubled over the last dozen years.
Please do keep posting this response
By issacg
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 10:37am
because when I made this exact point two weeks ago, the screaming responses were that the referendum vote last year was the voters saying that they did not want a higher gas tax.
As you point out, that is not correct.
Ooooh, 3 whole cents!
By ckd
Wed, 12/16/2015 - 5:26am
The last time the gas tax had gone up was in 1991. It's now 2015.
The recent rise was from 21c/gal to 24c/gal, a 3c raise (less than 15%). Even just keeping up with inflation would have made it closer to 36c/gal.
MBTA fares for a ride from Harvard to South Station over the same period from 1991 to today rose from 85c to $2.10 (with a CharlieCard) or $2.65 (without), an increase of $1.25 or $1.80 (147% or 211%).
So let's mandate fair and equal treatment: index gas tax increases to the MBTA fare or vice versa. (I'll be kind and use the CharlieCard discount fare.) So either gas taxes rise to about 52c/gal or T fares drop to 97c. Y'know what? I'll even allow rounding that up to a dollar.
It's totally fair and even. Same percentage increases on each side of the debate.
Lol
By Goosen
Mon, 12/14/2015 - 5:38pm
And we wanted to host the Olympics. What a joke. This city is growing exponentially and there is basically no possibility of any new major public transportation for the foreseeable future. Major problems for this city for many years to come.
If we hosted the Olympics
By Waquiot
Mon, 12/14/2015 - 5:43pm
We would have had transportation infrastructure upgrades up the wazoo.
And we'd be deep in debt with no clue how to pay it off.
But if you can figure out a politically palatable way of coming up with the extra billion or so needed, I'm sure the State House would love to hear it.
Raise
By MostlyHarmless
Mon, 12/14/2015 - 5:44pm
the gas tax.
Raise
By Al Katraze
Mon, 12/14/2015 - 6:23pm
Raise T fairs! You want the GLX etc. let T riders pay for it.
Toll the roads!
By Michael
Mon, 12/14/2015 - 7:01pm
All of them!
And let cars sit in gridlock
By anon
Mon, 12/14/2015 - 7:12pm
And let cars sit in gridlock traffic forever and always, amen.
Cars benefit when public transportation use rises.
We could go the way of London and charge all cars an entry toll into the city. I propose that the fee begin at 2x the T fare (to cover their trip back out).
And I'm primarily a driver, haven't used the T in months, but I'm realistic about what it means for traffic and general livability when one trip on the T is more expensive than a gallon of gas. There's no defense for that, none.
Your inability to write aside
By tape
Mon, 12/14/2015 - 7:57pm
Your inability to write aside, you do know that car drivers don't even come anywhere close to paying for the roads they use, right?
You want those highways? Raise the gas tax. Let car drivers pay for it.
Gas Tax
By Al Katraze
Mon, 12/14/2015 - 11:39pm
Last time I checked we pay 44.94 cents per gallon state and federal gas tax. Let's round that that up to.45 cents and say we have a 15 gallon gas tank. That would be $6.75 in taxes paid for each fill up. I think that's enough!
You may think it is enough,
By Sean117
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 8:41am
You may think it is enough, but you are flat out wrong. Gas tax should be doubled. Gas prices are at a 6 year *low*, it's time to raise it.
So...
By octr202
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 12:42pm
...as a gas tax payer, you feel your opinion of what you should pay is what should determine the tax level? But for transit riders, we should have to keep paying until the whole bill is met?
How is that fair?
Don't expect consistency
By anon
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 8:15am
The only place it's politically acceptable to say "let the users pay for it" among people here is the freeways. Transit is rationalized as a "public good" everyone else should pay for, but somehow the freeways getting people to work or whatever isn't.
Because freeways are already
By anon
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 9:15am
Because freeways are already subsidized at rates that make The Ride look like a capitalist profit machine.
Please stop with this "freeway" business.
By issacg
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 1:17pm
I beg you, for at least three reasons:
1) this isn't the West Coast and that's not what we call them here;
2) they are not free (even if their construction costs are already paid for) - and the idea of a "freeway" reinforces a lot of bad notions that are part of the larger problem here; and
3) it grates on my delicate eyes.
Thank you.
Public transit in Boston
By Sean117
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 8:39am
Public transit in Boston benefits all of Massachusetts. Raising fares is straight up idiocy.
No, it's called everyone
By Patricia
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 10:04am
No, it's called everyone sharing the burden. Raising fares should be on the table.
Fares just went up this past
By anon
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 10:44am
Fares just went up this past year. And also went up two years ago.
When driving costs match actual costs ...
By SwirlyGrrl
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 10:45am
... including externalities like emergency services, pollution damage, etc. I will agree.
forget the externalities
By issacg
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 1:20pm
I'd settle for the costs matching just the direct costs (maintenance, etc.). That said, your comment hits on one of my pet peeves - that most people can appreciate accounting costs, but they cannot/will not even begin to (or even try to) understand economic costs.
Even widespread basic understanding would change everything.
So NPR was asking the same
By anon
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 9:09am
So NPR was asking the same question the other day, "why not raise fares?". Given the history of MBTA, the mismanagement, and the incompetence, are we really certain we want to take that route? I don't think throwing more money at the problem will fix anything.
I don't think throwing more
By Scratchie
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 5:12pm
Let's throw less money at it and see if that works.
Ya know
By Waquiot
Mon, 12/14/2015 - 6:30pm
I was driving today when I saw a Prius with a "repeal the gas tax" sticker on it (along with a host of Republican candidate stickers)
I'd support raising the gas tax, but most voters won't (unless packaged properly)
Not all Priuses are driven by
By anon
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 8:18am
Not all Priuses are driven by smug, guilt-ridden environmentalists; some people are just frugal. I drive one of the most gas-efficient Toyotas they make myself, a Corolla that gets ~33mi/gal, and do so entirely out of economic reasons. I would probably buy a Prius if I had found one in the same purchase price range.
Frugal?
By SwirlyGrrl
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 10:48am
That depends on the type of driving that you do.
If you are running around the city a lot, they are frugal. If not, you are better off with a turbodiesel for long-haul driving.
So true
By Waquiot
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 6:46pm
A moderate Republican (read conservative 25 years ago) friend of mine proudly drives his Prius. He's such frugal SOB.
That said, the vote on indexing the gas tax should tell you something about the mood on raising the gas tax.
Perhaps it's silly to get
By anon
Mon, 12/14/2015 - 6:04pm
Perhaps it's silly to get emotional over transit, but I genuinely despise these cretins. Most of all Pollack, the despicable puppet.
I think I've asked this before but.....
By Pete Nice
Mon, 12/14/2015 - 6:07pm
The Lowell line commuter rail can't adjust and make a few stops like the Franklin line has?
No way
By SwirlyGrrl
Mon, 12/14/2015 - 6:36pm
1. It is at capacity or more - sometimes no room at West Medford as it is.
2. The stations were taken out 40 years ago and would have the same price tag.
3. It would turn the last 12 minutes into a half hour or more - unreasonable length of time for commuters.
All I'd like to see is 1 stop
By anon
Mon, 12/14/2015 - 7:43pm
All I'd like to see is 1 stop in Somerville. Ball Square would be a good location, it's close to Davis Square. The problem is no direct bus to Davis but thats a simple fix.
Many other CR lines have stops near the end of a subway line, why cant the Lowell line?
Haverhaill @ Malden Center - Orange Line
Fitchburg @ Porter Square - Red Line
Worcester @ Yawkey & the coming New Balance stop
Needham @ Forest Hills
Greenbush @ JFK
Kingston/Plymouth @ JFK / Braintree
Middleborough @ JFK / Braintree
Somerville is one of the most
By KBHer
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 12:06am
Somerville is one of the most densely populated areas in the Northeast, let alone Massachusetts. Already the majority of its residents commute to work by public transit and they do by putting up with slow, out of the way bus transfers. Only a small portion are actually able to access close by rapid transit (we're talking 30% of Somerville public transit riders) at Davis and Porter. The rest bus it. Commuter rail is not an improvement over the bus. it's too infrequent for Somerville - even if a stop was added to Union Square or Ball, few people would use it as the bus connections are more frequent. It would also further injure schedule capacity on the Lowell and Fitchburg through an additional stop and start entering Boston.
If it comes down to CR stop or nothing - go with nothing. It's not an improvement and not worth the cost. Somerville can sustain a light-rail extension, easily actually, GLX is the only option for improving access from Somerville. Nothing else, no bus-route optimization (Somerville riders are spread across too many bus routes for that to be an option), no CR stop, nothing offers anything close to the service upgrade from GLX. It's GLX or nothing if we're talking access in Somerville.
I 100% agree with you but let
By anon
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 7:45am
I 100% agree with you but let's be fair, there's a good amount of eastern Somerville (you know, the unpopular part) that's well within walking catchment of Sullivan, even if the station is technically in Charlestown.
well within walking catchment
By KBHer
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 10:01am
Glossing over Sullivan was on oversight (as was Assembly, but that's not really integrated into the transfer system yet) - but there's actually something to be said about the way Sull operates. Sullivan is not a great walking catchment station - only about 1.6k riders walk there on a given day. Most of from E. Somerville and the MBTA seems to committed to making that walk as miserable as possible for some reason. Davis and Porter accrue 6k and 4k walking-access riders, not all from Somerville, but certainly exert a far greater pull on their immediate catchment than Sullivan.
And...
By boo_urns
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 10:27am
there's a good amount of Somerville close to the Cambridge border in Inman (and Cambridge, for that matter) that would highly benefit from the GLX in Union. So..... well, you can do the math, I hope.
No, it is not
By SwirlyGrrl
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 10:56am
You clearly do not know the area. Stop.
Or, better yet, try this in the field. See how much of Somerville that you can ACTUALLY reach safely and on foot that isn't warehouses. Do it at night - I dare you. You might get lucky and be able to cross the street!
Lol ok I lived in the area
By anon
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 12:00pm
Lol ok I lived in the area for 6 years and walked to the train for work every day (and came home after dark! Oh no!) Maybe you should not make assumptions about people?
From Sullivan you can go west along the south sidewalk on Broadway into East Somerville. It's not a PRETTY walk, but it's hardly dangerous. Once you get past taco loco and into the commercial area, you can cross Broadway if you need to be on the north side. East Somerville is very accessible by foot. Hell, Winter Hill area isn't bad either.
So, is Union slready built?
By anon
Mon, 12/14/2015 - 9:35pm
So, is Union slready built? Is there just a platform standing there with no train attached?
I wonder
By GoSoxGo
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 8:18am
if any of the people making these decisions have ever USED late-night service on the T.
Some of the problems with the way late-night service is currently set up:
1. Late-night service is not advertised.
2. They cut back so that the last train/bus is of little use to workers. I actually work at a bar on Saturday nights and I leave work about 2:30 a.m. Most of the "late-night" service has already ended.
3. Headways are not frequent enough. As often happens, someone may miss a bus or a train by seconds. The next one? 30 minutes? No thanks.
4. As for the buses, not all the routes make sense. In fact, on June 27, five buses were cut from late-night service. The original thought was to offer late-night service on the 15 busiest bus routes. But just because a route is busy during the day does not mean it will be patronized well during late-night. On the other hand, some routes that are screaming for late-night service were ignored. There is no late-night service on the #9, for example, which serves Copley Square and Broadway on the Red and Green lines. In fact, there is no late-night service to South Boston at all. You can get to Broadway, but then you have to walk up to two miles to get to the east side of South Boston. I have a 30-minute walk on Saturday nights and get home at 3am because there is no service to South Boston.
5. For those of you who say to take an Uber or taxi, have you ever tried to get an Uber or taxi between 2 and 3 am? Next to impossible unless you are downtown or in the bar areas. It's also too expensive. Uber often has surge pricing in effect at that time.
Of course public transit loses money. It's a public service. Roads don't make any money either, but I haven't seen a movement to shut down roads after a certain hour. Except for sports or big events, public transit after 9pm doesn't exactly get great crowds either but is vitally necessary. Renegotiate the union contracts. Nobody NEEDS to make a premium to drive a bus or subway after midnight. I'm sure there are plenty of people who would work the shift at a "normal" rate of pay. It's a job.
Some people mentioned Paris and London do not have 24-hour service on their subway lines. True. But there, and in many other cities, they offer late-night replacement bus service along the subway lines. I have taken it in London.
The only certainty is that we need to find a way to streamline costs while still providing this needed service.
+100
By Michael Kerpan
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 8:25am
The decisions made by our leaders are routinely dreadful but probably conform with the majority of voters' desire to never spend money on state services that don't benefit them personally.
Actually, the really stupid
By J
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 9:53am
Actually, the really stupid part about picking the top 15 routes is that they didnt look at segments.
From Forest hills, there are a dozen routes that all have good ridership, and for a good segment, serve the same corridor. That means people simply take the first one that arrives.
On their own, none make the top 15. But the corridor as a whole is probably one of the busiest in the region.
No night service of course, because all they did was rank the excel file by ridership and delete everything below row 15.
The 32 made the cut
By Waquiot
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 6:49pm
And if you've ever ridden it, you'd know why.
That foregone revenue from tax incentives
By issacg
Tue, 12/15/2015 - 10:48am
Given how hot the real estate market in much of Greater Boston (and certainly around downtown) is, and given the needs of the transit system (among other things, but let's just talk transit for now) these "tax incentives" (e.g., Liberty Mutual, Vertex, etc.) have to be limited and the revenue plowed back into public infrastructure (I'm aware that the revenue would nominally go to the City but that could be changed). For example, if I were in the Legislature, I would be pushing legislation that said, essentially, if you want to give a "tax incentive" like those mentioned above, you have to get a relatively large up front payment that will be put into trust for infrastructure improvements.
Of course, we could just make it easier and adopt a value-capture system of taxation for properties nearest transit and other amenities.
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