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BPD investigates how officer's gun went off at busy JP intersection
By adamg on Tue, 05/03/2016 - 5:46pm
Boston Police are investigating how an officer's gun fired yesterday afternoon at the intersection of Centre Street and Seaverns Avenue, but say initial evidence points to a simple accident.
Police declined to specify the nature of that accident, but said the officer remains on the job and is not facing disciplinary action.
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Comments
accident?
Or negligence. A very importance distinction with discharge of a firearm.
There's no such thing as an
There's no such thing as an accidental discharge of a firearm.
semantics.....
When people use the word "accident" they aren't using it to replace the concept of recklessness or negligence. They are using it in contrast to the act of doing something on purpose. Like if the officer was shooting at someone who had fired at the officer first, and the officer missed and hit another object, that wouldn't be an "accident" either would it?
If he thought the gun was unloaded and was cleaning the trigger and it went off, would that be an accident?
Is there such thing as an "accident"?
I think many people use the word meaning someone could have an accident and be negligent/reckless at the same time.
out of curiosity
if i had a (legal) gun and accidentally discharged it there what would happen to me?
Depends on he circumstances, no?
Back in the 1970s, by father-in-law was cleaning his rifle in the house. He thought it wasn't loaded, but it was. Bullet discharged, went through either a wall or floor (I wasn't there, so my recollection is hazy) and hit his son. The wound wasn't bad. No charges, so he continued to be the town pediatrician without any problems.
well
i did specify "there" meaning, out around the town, on a sidewalk/in the street. if i had done exactly what the officer had done. i wonder if the police routinely refer to discharged firearms as 'simple accidents' when they happen from regular people going about their business.
hey, maybe they do. though i'm not sure that makes me feel any better, really.
In all fairness
it could have been something stupid, like it got caught on something getting in and out of the car.
On the street is another issue
I myself am scratching my head about how a gun "accidentally discharged." I suppose if the pistol was holstered and it fell out while the cop was walking, I am not versed enough about whether the safety would help in a case like that.
But hey, that's what internal affairs is for.
Almost 100% of modern
Almost 100% of modern firearms are drop safe. Trying to catch them tho? That is a bad call.
Holstered guns do not just fall out, particularly in retention holsters used by police forces.
Any gun sold to the public in
Any gun sold to the public in MA has to pass a drop test. The police, however, are exempt from this requirement... they can buy unapproved guns. Not that it matters, almost all guns are drop proof anyways, it's really just a way of restricting the supply of lawful firearms. It would be pretty hilarious if this case actually provided evidence that it serves a legit purpose.
We can buy unapproved guns as
We can buy unapproved guns as well. Just need to know how.
In any other first world
In any other first world country there would be repercussions for shooting someone. Of course in other first world countries they are smart enough to not carry deadly weapons around everywhere so stuff like that rarely happens.
The cop should be charged with illegal discharge of a firearm. This happened at the busiest area of JP and its fortunate no one was shot.
Two Things
1. The cop isn't accused of "shooting someone," and I don't see how you reached that inference based on any of the reports, which are all very clear that no one was injured.
2. There are more handguns in circulation in the US than there are people in any of the "first world countries" where police don't carry guns. I think it would be just swell if fewer criminals had access to them, but until you figure out a way to achieve that I'll remain comfortable with police being armed, too.
You would be charged with
You would be charged with discharging a firearm within 500 feet of a building. You would have your license to carry a firearm suspended by the licensing authority. They would then seize all of your lawfully owned firearms, and place them in storage at your cost. You would have aright to challenge that suspension in court in 90 days, assuming you can resolve the criminal matter in time. Otherwise you have lost your right to a firearm until your license expires, give or take, depending on some other potential legal actions that your $250 an hour attorney can wrangle for you.
They also seize and destroy all of your ammunition.
.
No you wouldn't.
Show me the last time someone in Boston (and it does happen), was charged when they can clearly show their intent wasn't seriously negligent or reckless.
At least two cases I know of
At least two cases I know of out of BMC Gun Court
What are they?
They are public record, I'm not really a gun guy but can at least get the reports and see the specific circumstances/charges. Do you know the names?
It also depends on what you use/need the gun for.
If you use it for work (Security, law enforcement) courts and licensing agencies often take that into consideration. If the reason for an LTC on your application is simply a reference to your 2nd amendment right, they might revoke it.
It would be suspended either way, and remember, police officers aren't required to have LTC's and have different licensing requirements.
This is bullshit. There are
This is bullshit. There are no accidents only negligence.
If an everyday citizen had a negligent discharge in public their license would be gone for life and they'd be facing significant criminal charges.
One set of rules for police and another for the public.
Accidents happen all the time
Trust me, I was pissed the last time my son peed on me, but I wouldn't call it negligence.
What happened in this case, maybe an honest accident, maybe gross negligence, but much like yourself, I wasn't around to witness it.
Cop != 3 year old
Gun != pee pee
There is quite a lot here that seems off, if you know anything about guns. Enough so that "honest accident" is one of the less likely explanations. Still possible, but unlikely. Equipment failure or negligence are more likely (such as a faulty safety and improper holstering together or fiddling around with the gun with the safety off).
Oh, it's not even about the gun thing for me
This is the second time an anon, probably this anon, said there's no such things as accidents. While I will concede that the word can be overused, accidents do happen. Perhaps it's the parent side of me, but I can accept that sometimes things happen that shouldn't but aren't necessarily someone's fault.
AD vs. ND
It's a distinction that's drilled into the brains of gun owners who take the necessary steps to follow the law and be responsible. Can you blame them? A civvy negligently discharging a firearm would have their LTC suspended in a flash. The fact that BPD is calling this an "accident" means there would need to be a mechanical malfunction in the firearm causing it to just go off. Modern firearms are equipped with all kinds of safety features that prevent this from happening.
It may sound pedantic, but there is a difference. If the gun didn't just "go off" on its own, there was a negligent discharge. He pulled the trigger. There are only four rules of firearms safety, so breaking one would make it entirely the officer's fault.
By the way, I am not the anon above. But there's dozens of us!
A holstered gun cannot just
A holstered gun cannot just 'go off'. He had to have been handling the firearm for it to have discharged. Why was he handling a firearm in such a manner in a store?
No, negligence is the cause here. I saw this as a person with a LTC and a firearm on my hip.
BPD issue sidearm is the
BPD issue sidearm is the Glock, no safety, only a trigger block which is disabled by placing your index finger on the trigger and exerting pressure,,,
Despite the misnomer of "gun
Despite the misnomer of "gun violence" a firearm in an inanimate object without free will which doesn't do a thing unless interacted with by a person. Someone has to be violent or negligent in the handling or storage of a firearm for it to fire.
Short of a mechanical malfunction or a ricochet off a known target, both which require a person's interaction with the firearm to initiate, there are no accidents.
Ultimately people are responsible. Displaced blame is unacceptable.
Will the outcome of this set a precedent for all gun owners?
It is going to be grossly unfair if this law enforcement official doesn't get punished, but your future average citizen is for the same "accident" does.
Its grossly unfair to people
Its grossly unfair to people who don't want to be shot by morons and their guns.
The officer allowed the
The officer allowed the trigger to be pulled, guns don't just go off.
Only scenario I can see culpability of the officer being reduced is if his holster was worn out he had requested replacement and had failed to receive one in reasonable time. Worn out leather holsters can be dangerous.
Most holstered "accidental" discharges happen.....
-When something gets caught in the trigger guard and the weapon isn't holstered properly, so the person attempts to properly holster the firearm with the trigger getting pulled.
-When something is caught, and the magazine isn't set properly and the owner slaps the magazine in place (rare)
-The most common reason is the person has an unholstered weapon and the trigger gets pulled somehow.