Ball Square proposal, then and now. See it larger.
MBTA and MassDOT staff today presented plans for a $2.3-billion Green Line Extension that would keep the originally planned seven stations but would eliminate amenities such as fully enclosed waiting rooms, escalators, fare gates and, at several stations, elevators and stairs.
The proposal would also cut in half the size of a maintenance facility - and shorten the length of a proposed community path alongside the tracks. Several bridges that had been originally slated for complete replacement will instead stay as is, due to changes in track alignments.
A key part of the savings would be roughly $204 million in the fees paid to contractors and consultants to oversee the work.
Last week, Somerville and Cambridge officials vowed to seek local approval to pour $75 million into the extension to keep it afloat - including money already committed by the developer of the North Point project towards relocating and improving the Lechmere station.
Even with the savings, the project is still roughly $300 million above what was once supposed to be a $1.92 billion cost - $1 billion of which would come from the federal government. Staffers suggested looking for fill the gap with contributions from local businesses that would benefit from the new trolley line and from the city of Medford.
GLX presentation - Slideshow, highlights changes to account for savings (3.4M PDF)
GLX report - More details information (6M PDF)
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Comments
A disservice to everyone
By anon
Mon, 05/09/2016 - 6:30pm
Who? The people who plan on using the station for its intended purpose, without being harassed by those who live in the station, who are using the station as a shooting gallery, and who are using the station as a toilet?
I've spent enough time in San Francisco to greatly appreciate the hostile architecture Boston has, and to see how greatly it's benefitted me and my personal freedom to be able to catch the first train at 5 am or the last train after midnight, without having to stand there in utter fear, hoping the train comes quickly.
Yes, those people.
By Mjolnir
Mon, 05/09/2016 - 10:57pm
The people who want to wait for the train in the rain, or the cold, or who are pregnant, or who are temporarily or permanently handicapped, or the people who just want a comfortable place to sit and wait for a little bit. Those people.
Details Details and more Details
By anon
Mon, 05/09/2016 - 1:45pm
How many millions of dollars are allocated for flagmen or police details? If Cambridge, the state and Somerville are each contributing to the project which department gets the lucrative work?
Flagmen?
By adamg
Mon, 05/09/2016 - 1:48pm
Given that the route goes along an existing rail right-of-way for the most part and now that they've decided against ripping out and replacing several bridges, I'm not thinking that's going to be much of a cost.
It will be...
By octr202
Mon, 05/09/2016 - 2:02pm
...for commuter rail work, which will be a good portion of the project. Not police details, but part of the costs include flagpersons to protect against train movements through the work area (so the Lowell Line can continue to function).
(But this is something of a technicality.)
Bakers latest plan delays
By Trump-Baker 2016
Mon, 05/09/2016 - 1:50pm
Bakers latest plan delays restarting construction 18 months, conveniently after the next election. So he follows in a long line of Republican governors who dither and delay on promised public transit projects. It also acknowldges that his dithering will cost $1.6 million for every month it is delayed. That's 27 million MORE (after the 10 months already past, another 16 million).
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2016/05/09/green-...
Plus, the new stripped down stations look like they wont have fare collection, meaning it will be the broken on board style that results in millions of lost revenue on the existing green line above ground stops.
Short term Charlie, like the Republicant party as a whole, is all about the immediate time and the next election, instead of seeing the benefit of investing in our state the way previous generations did.
What's the cost of onboard fare collection?
By anon
Mon, 05/09/2016 - 1:55pm
Gated concourses allow for the ability to open all doors and know that every rider has paid to ride. You get both more revenue and faster boarding and alighting.
It looks like this is a step backwards in that regard -- now every rider has to tap when entering, which means that you get less fare collection during rush hour because it's impossible to require front door only access on a packed train, and you get longer times stopped at the station on nights/weekends because you've got to squeeze all folks onto the front door entrances.
Piss poor.
By Comparison, Our Neighbors To The North Are Building This
By Elmer
Mon, 05/09/2016 - 2:21pm
[img]http://i.cbc.ca/1.3548333.1461334369!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_620/caisse-de-depot-et-placement-du-quebec.jpg[/img]
- 42-mile, fully automated, high-speed, electric, light rail system.
- 24 stations with modern features including automatic platform safety doors.
- Service 7-days a week from 5AM to 1AM, with 3-minute headways during rush hour.
- Total cost: $5.5 billion (about 2 GLXs)
- Start of revenue service: 2020
[youtube]2-H5hq-1yS0[/youtube]
So, should we be disappointed if this pared down Green Line extension is the best Massachusetts can do?
And they even plan on making
By DPM
Mon, 05/09/2016 - 2:23pm
And they even plan on making money with the project.
$5.5 billion?
By Will LaTulippe
Mon, 05/09/2016 - 2:45pm
Our dollars or theirs?
That is 4.2 billion in US
By DPM
Mon, 05/09/2016 - 2:47pm
That is 4.2 billion in US dollars if that is Canadian dollars. Talk about bang for their buck.
Theirs — In U.S. Dollars It's Only $4.25 Billion!
By Elmer
Mon, 05/09/2016 - 2:51pm
GLX at 1.9 Billion 441
By eastiesveryown
Mon, 05/09/2016 - 9:45pm
GLX at 1.9 Billion 441 million per mile
MTL at 4.25 billion 101 million per mile
At least we're not as bad as NYC. 2nd ave subway 2.3 BILLION PER MILE
Great! We'll be able to take BOS-MTL High Speed Rail to see it!
By issacg
Mon, 05/09/2016 - 2:56pm
because the Boston-Montreal HSR corridor was designated in 2000 (note where I had to get that link from, for crying out loud!), and since we started construction in a timely manner (and produced thousands of jobs during the biggest economic downturn since the Great Depression), it's already done!
I'm so glad that we live in a forward-thinking place where infrastructure improvements are made to facilitate continued economic growth, rather than being put off thereby foregoing the growth that went somewhere else because no one here could get anywhere in a reasonably timely way!
/snark
Why do you we need a HSR
By anon
Mon, 05/09/2016 - 3:02pm
Why do you we need a HSR train when buses and planes already provide faster or cheaper service for current passenger loads without spending billions extra?
The Green Line extension makes sense because there's no way to improve bus service significantly enough in Somerville, Cambridge, or Medford to handle the same passenger capacity in that area.
Rail through sparsely
By DPM
Mon, 05/09/2016 - 3:02pm
Rail through sparsely populated regions is not really the most effective use of travel dollars. The northeast regional is successful due to the high density along it. Boston-Montreal would have a whole lot of nothing in between the two. Making the costs difficult to recoup.
We're just not good at this.
By issacg
Mon, 05/09/2016 - 3:13pm
It was an example of the failed national policy on HSR, but point taken.
Perhaps a better example. Why does it still take 3.5 hours go the 200 miles between here and NYC by train, when it takes just over 2 hours to go the ~250 (route) miles between London and Paris (under the fricken English Channel/La Manche)?
Mostly too many stops and
By DPM
Mon, 05/09/2016 - 3:26pm
Mostly too many stops and speed limits.
I take the Northeast regional often, Acela a bit less often. The Acela is not able to stretch its legs and it is only faster because it is essentially an express train.
The NER is however faster than the closest competition (flying) city center to city center. I as a frequent rider am not convinced a faster rail service is warranted, at least not when costs are factored in.
Plus the London-Paris
By anon
Mon, 05/09/2016 - 3:53pm
Plus the London-Paris Eurostar is significantly slower than other true high-speed lines in Europe.
Interesting Note on the Montreal Project
By issacg
Mon, 05/09/2016 - 3:07pm
Notwithstanding my earlier comment, it is interesting to note who is paying for that project (the Quebec pension fund manager).
Even though the fund manager is the primary investor on this project, they are typically more of one of a consortium, public and private. It would be nice if the Globe or someone else would do some stories on the funding model, especially since......
the Chairman of the FMCB for the T is the Director of Business Development (North America) for Meridiam Infrastructure, a French outfit that partners with other public and private entities to develop and manage infrastructure projects (e.g., the recently opened Port of Miami Tunnel).
Now, I suppose that the Governor's appointment of him as Chair was mere happenstance.
We are missing the window, people. I'll say it again for the 980th time: we are choking on our own success around here, and unless we do something to improve the transport infrastructure we'll be asphyxiated.
We are missing the window,
By Ari O
Mon, 05/09/2016 - 3:50pm
Way too far down the thread, but an excellent point. San Francisco is spending $1.5 billion on a light rail (but really, subway) line connecting the main train station to downtown and beyond. It's a big deal, akin to, say, building the Red-Blue Connector and a connection from Back Bay to the Seaport. Seattle just spent $2 billion extending their light rail in a subway to serve the university there and it's so popular that, for the first time, Seattlites are having to learn how to behave on crowded trains. (Luckily, Somervillians will have plenty of practice when/if GLX opens.) New York is building the SAS (finally) and the East Side Access, neither of which is cheap, but both of which will dramatically increase connectivity (they do have to address the Hudson tubes, though).
DC is effed, but that's another story.
We can't decide whether to invest this much money to help take stress off the transit system (yes, indeed: GLX will pull riders off of the Orange and Red lines which certainly need it) because we see it as a cost, not an investment. Of course, the Seattle project came in 10% under budget, maybe we could bring in their project team to learn us how to do *that*.
Does the Americans With
By anon
Mon, 05/09/2016 - 2:58pm
Does the Americans With Disabilities Act apply to any of this?
Yes.
By anon
Wed, 05/11/2016 - 12:00pm
Yes.
The saved money is already
By anon
Mon, 05/09/2016 - 3:21pm
The saved money is already being spent by our politicians on the North Shore.
In Lynn they'd like 15 million for modifications to a station at the old GE plant. This is to essentially to build a station with access to one developers housing project. The project's not even built yet but it's sounding like someones sweet deal.
They'd also like like a $6 billion dollar boost to extend the Blue Line, apparently right past that station to the main Lynn station. In the last weeks they praised a water shuttle for drowning any free cash I had and threw millions at that.
It's like piranha's all tearing at my wallet and forgetting my quality of life matters.
You poor baby
By anon
Mon, 05/09/2016 - 4:20pm
I suppose you complain about traffic congestion, too.
But never, of course, about the heavy subsidies we all pay for Western Mass and their massive amounts of roadways per taxpayer.
I don't see the gripes with this
By Waquiot
Mon, 05/09/2016 - 8:29pm
So, someone looking to board the Green Line at Ball Square will go down a covered ramp, across the tracks at a relatively safe point, then wait on a platform that looks like most of the Riverside Line stops.
Sure, it's not the best configuration, but if you've ever been to Mass Ave, Roxbury Crossing, or Green St Stations, have you ever wondered why the room ends about 4 cars down? It's because they needed to save money. The original design for Forest Hills was akin to Ruggles meets Quincy Adams (though with less parking.) The final result saved millions, and until they started ruining it in the past year, I do not recall complaints about the final design.
If it gets built, that's the most important outcome.
It's because an enclosed
By anon
Tue, 05/10/2016 - 7:53am
It's because an enclosed space would have allowed for faregates - now it's going to be similar to the outer reaches of the GL, requiring everyone to tap as they get on like it's a bus. It's going to significantly slow down the system for the entirety of the system's lifespan, whereas spending a lot on enclosed stations would at some point be paid off and a quick boarding system lasts for the lifetime of the track.
Ultimately though I guess as long as it actually gets built, they could theoretically renovate it years down the line. Cancelling it completely would also be a death knell for other expansion that's going to have to happen eventually (blue to Lynn, OLX replacing the Needham line), so...
The post that broke uhub.
By anon
Tue, 05/10/2016 - 7:56am
There are so many replies to replies that my phone formats them all as single character lines and they are ten columns outside the right margin.
It has everything to be the ultimate post on uhub... The T, budget issues, and urban design deficiencies. I think the only way this post could get more replies from uhubbers would be if the GLX was partially in Boston and the mayor's office was involved.
FWIW I just think of all the orange line platforms that are miserable leaky messes after 30 years of neglect. Putting in easily replaceable bus shelters instead makes sense given the uncertainties of the maintenance backlog 5, let alone 30 years from now.
Yep, sorry about that
By adamg
Tue, 05/10/2016 - 8:24am
My daughter started complaining about it pretty much as soon as I picked her up from the train yesterday (yes, she's a dedicated UHub reader).
I need to set aside some time to fiddle with things such as less spacing for nested comments, at least in the templates for the mobile version, since it seems like that's where the problem really is. Short of that, the answer would be eliminating threaded discussions entirely and just going with a "flat" system (where all replies would just go at the bottom of the thread, instead of letting you reply to specific comments), but that has some issues, too, even if readability wouldn't be one of them.
Dear God no. NO
By J
Tue, 05/10/2016 - 10:36am
Dear God no.
NO
Meanwhile on Archboston
By RhoninFire
Tue, 05/10/2016 - 11:29am
While everyone is working to break the comment system here to being unreadable with context, there's some analysis on the thread on archboston.
The most interesting aspect is the fact this savings of cost is entirely done by cuts. The entire calculation is still used the same calculation the previous contractor was using that was inflating construction and tracking towards the $1BN over-budget that triggered this panic button.
Ignoring how awful they are still calculating using the same inflated numbers, this also means when bidding actually comes, it may come far under the estimate. Or means we're in a good position to go under-budget and thus bring back some of stuff being cut.
But that assumes that we start calculating estimate by the real cost rather than re-using their inflated numbers. Something I'm not sure we're going to do despite officials saying the this whole thing is caused by contractors ripping us off. Yet, this estimate is based entirely they they will continue to rip us off.
So ...
By ElizaLeila
Tue, 05/10/2016 - 2:28pm
Maybe the T should bring in their own Professional Estimator to double check the contractor's. Especially when there are so many question marks around this effort.
Or, are the numbers truly inflated? I haven't looked at them to compare them to my previous projects. Costs have been going up, as we all know. Estimators keep an eye on escalation and do their best to project forward what that figure may be.
Is this project CM at Risk? That may be the reason no second estimator has been brought in to compare. It would be doubling the estimator costs (CM's estimator + Owner's estimator), but short money to be certain things are (or at least look) reasonable.
Broadway bridge sidewalk?
By Ubermonkey
Tue, 05/10/2016 - 3:34pm
According to the docs, the sidewalks on the Broadway bridge will be removed. How does that makes sense? Especially considering that will be immediately adjacent to the new station!
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