South Boston Today reports that faced with continued losses in court, the developer who wanted to turn the Gate of Heaven school on East 4 Street into 31 condos has given up and not renewed his purchase-and-sale agreement with the Archdiocese of Boston.
Neighbors who have fought the plan say the archdiocese should look at alternative educational uses, such as renting or selling the building to a charter school.
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So not only does Boston not get more housing
By Will LaTulippe
Fri, 06/10/2016 - 7:15pm
But the pedophile ring will continue to own that piece of property. Good work, Southie. What a complete trash neighborhood, save for the beaches.
You can't go down a street in
By BPlusPlayer
Fri, 06/10/2016 - 7:20pm
You can't go down a street in Southie without seeing new condos being built that don't have appropriate parking. The last thing we need is more of that and we'd like the school building to remain a school if possible.
We?
By Will LaTulippe
Fri, 06/10/2016 - 7:22pm
How many people did you poll on this?
You dislike Southie, why do
By BPlusPlayer
Fri, 06/10/2016 - 7:40pm
You dislike Southie, why do you even care? Did you attend any of the meetings with the residents saying they were against this? I'm all for more housing, but the MBTA won't add any more transportation to our town and for those who drive the parking situation is incredibly bad.
As one Southie resident to (?
By thisisntreddit
Fri, 06/10/2016 - 9:01pm
As one Southie resident to (?)another: Come on man, read up on your public policy and transportation trends. Adding high-density housing encourages walking and public transit. Adding parking lots encourages car ownership. Stop being a NIMBYer.
http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/blog/2015/11/02...
The city needs more housing, and developer improvements in our part of town are a good thing bringing in commerce, money, community improvements, and increased home value. Get with it man.
Also, you should check out the MBTA improvements being suggested by the BRA as part of the Dorchester Ave. corridor improvement project. The look good.
It's not enough transit
By anon
Sat, 06/11/2016 - 5:30pm
It's not enough transit improvement.
The growth needs to be manageable otherwise it's not worth pursuing. Bromides about more commerce and home value are mostly irrelevant in an area that's already improved a lot
Why does the city need more
By anon
Sat, 06/11/2016 - 6:14pm
Why does the city need more housing ?
Because...
By Jason
Mon, 06/13/2016 - 2:12pm
... The demand for housing is greater than the supply of housing. Simple as that. When you have a supply deficit, you see increasing prices. The answer is either build more supply or somehow reduce demand. The latter is pretty difficult to do, although Boston seems to be trying to make us all hate it here some days.
The two are rarely in balance. The other type of imbalance is the kind seen in Detroit currently, and in Boston between 1950 and 1985. That's an oversupply of housing, which leads to declining property values, lowered revenues, and generally lousy economic conditions.
All things considered, most of us would rather live in a place that is attractive to people. The downside is that the people we're attracting have to go somewhere, which means we have to share. And that's why we need more housing in every single neighborhood,including yours.
You can reduce demand by
By anon
Mon, 06/13/2016 - 3:36pm
You can reduce demand by requiring residency.
Existing neighborhoods do not need to expand just because others who do not own property there think they that they don't have enough density.
New arrivals do not get to
By anon
Mon, 06/13/2016 - 3:43pm
New arrivals do not get to force people to overdevelop preexisting neighborhoods because they consist of property owners.
So what would that poll look like?
By No
Fri, 06/10/2016 - 8:31pm
Poll: Do you think Southie should have adequate parking?
Yes, It's nice to have parking when I have to park a car. 0%
No, I like not having any places to park and circling for 45 minutes when I have places to be. 100%
How can you possibly take a counter opinion to wanting a city to have parking spaces?
You Forgot An Answer.
By BlackKat
Fri, 06/10/2016 - 8:54pm
No I don't own a car because I live somewhere where one is utterly unnecessary and a frivolous expense.
Learner's permit
By anon
Sat, 06/11/2016 - 8:12am
Get your learner's permit. You may find you like driving instead of relying on others to get you around. Stop nagging on the self reliant commuters of the city.
"self reliant" commuters that
By anon
Sat, 06/11/2016 - 11:20am
"self reliant" commuters that need to demand parking spaces are added? So self reliant.
By "Self Reliant"....they must mean
By Sunny Beach
Sat, 06/11/2016 - 6:39pm
that they drive their SELF around in a Plymouth RELIANT
Self reliant drivers
By SwirlyGrrl
Sat, 06/11/2016 - 11:47am
Too very funny! Hillarious even!
When are you going to self-reliantly start paying for your subsidized parking? How about self-reliantly kicking in that 40% of the cost of your driving that isn't covered by fees and taxes on gas?
Let's get one thing straight: a car is a giant powered wheel chair. Useful for hauling loads or transporting people who cannot walk or bike on their own or who are covering large distances, but it is NOT self-reliant transportation in any sense of the word.
Want to know self-reliant transportation is? Go here and start reading: http://www.mass.gov/eohhs/gov/departments/dph/prog...
That's what they said
By anon
Sat, 06/11/2016 - 8:44am
The vast majority of fatalities during Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans didn't own vehicles. Maybe they thought they could outrun the storm on their bicycles.
So, you're saying that...
By Sally
Sat, 06/11/2016 - 1:36pm
we should all have cars...in case the levees break?
Honestly that is the dumbest attempt at justifying car ownership I've ever heard.
Need More Flies
By BlackKat
Sat, 06/11/2016 - 2:29pm
Yes, I live in Brighton so I'm actually on a really big hill. However, a plague of frogs could be an issue.
Ahh yes cars save lives. As
By Kinopio
Sun, 06/12/2016 - 6:33pm
Ahh yes cars save lives. As long as you ignore the 33000 Americans car drivers kill every year. Or the people who die of cancer from toxic auto emissions. And the fact that Katrina was so bad because of rising sea levels and warmer water caused by car emissions.
You know what?
By SwirlyGrrl
Sun, 06/12/2016 - 7:04pm
People were able to beat traffic on bikes. I know someone who did.
The people not owning cars really wasn't relevant - the problem was that they did not take advantage of the other opportunities to leave town.
Our family plan, in the event of an evacuation, is to use bikes to get out of town. We can cover twenty five miles in two hours under load that way. You will not be able to do that in a car in this area if the Boston area is evacuated.
I would strap the bikes to the car.....
By Pete Nice
Sun, 06/12/2016 - 7:28pm
Probably a better plan. In emergency evacuations, you can drive on sidewalks and do all sorts of traffic beating maneuvers.
Yes we.
By anon
Fri, 06/10/2016 - 11:00pm
We who live in Southie. Not somebody who doesn't live in the City of Boston or some carpetbagging immigrant who just moved here.
I sugget a new bumper sticker for you folks:
By anon
Fri, 06/10/2016 - 7:53pm
"Vacant Buildings Not Condos."
This is not a victory for the neighborhood. There will not be a school. There will continue to be a vacant building until some other developer comes in wih a plan including enough parking to satisfy you people.
Just kidding! You'll never be satisfied.
Newsflash: it's not a developer's responsibility to create one+ parking space for each new unit of development, it just isn't. It's the city's responsibilty to create enough public transit to satisfy demand and allow more residents of the neighborhood to forego owning a vehicle.
Just kidding! You'll fight new public transportation too because it would impede your ability to double park on broadway or some other absurd reason.(Kids Not Trains? How does that sound?).
So negative.
By BPlusPlayer
Fri, 06/10/2016 - 8:17pm
So negative.
Went to the MBTA meeting at the Tynan school with residents requesting more frequent bus departures. T said it's not possible.
Parking is Overrated
By Build Baby Build
Fri, 06/10/2016 - 9:12pm
Since 2008, Boston has added over 50k residents while losing 50k+ cars. People who move to Southie don't generally own cars. The developer would build more spaces if they were demanded. Newsflash: they're not. In fact, most of these garages sit half empty, because they're demanded by archaic laws and set in their ways neighbors.
Dear Southie, stop demanding more parking for long time residents under the guise of satisfying the demand of newcomers. You have frequent busses and you can walk to downtown or the T.
Enjoy your vacant building and your rising rents from blocking development.
townies and parking...
By SoBo-Yuppie
Fri, 06/10/2016 - 11:49pm
they are stuck in their ways and can't change.
and they feel that they are entitled to this government hand me out and shouldn't be charged market rate.
stop looking for free government stuff and pay your fair share.
- The Original SoBo Yuppie
Last time dickhead
By anon
Sat, 06/11/2016 - 8:46am
Townies are from Charlestown. Ask the Ctown Yuppie.
And once again, moron
By Waquiot
Sat, 06/11/2016 - 9:46am
When it is a lower case "t", it is a generic term to describe those who are born and bred. Read a dictionary for once.
Geez, who would have thought a townie from Charlestown would get me to defend the annoying South Boston yuppie.
Nope
By cinnamngrl
Sun, 06/12/2016 - 9:47am
Colloquial speech is about context. In Boston, townies are people born in Charlestown no matter the size of the t. But you can keep bullying people into talking like the voices in your head.
You sure about that
By Waquiot
Sun, 06/12/2016 - 10:56am
What about the townie vs barnie battle further up the neck in Somerville and Cambridge?
As for the bullying accusation (what's really got me), check the comment I was responding to and seriously ask who is bullying around here.
Vacant building vs
By anon
Sat, 06/11/2016 - 5:32pm
Vacant building vs development is a straw man. Reasonable growth is what's being asked for.
There is a parking shortage. The developer has no financial incentive to add more parking because that doesn't increase the profit margin.
More development makes the problem worse. More people living in an area means more potential visitors who also require parking, even if your dubious suggestion that the numbers has stayed the same is factual.
There will continue to be a parking shortage.
By cinnamngrl
Sun, 06/12/2016 - 10:03am
You don't need a car to live in southie. If you want a car then, you need to deal with the challenges it creates.
If neighborhood groups keep blocking housing development, they will force the city to change the zoning laws so that local opinion is irrelevant. If you want Southie to become full of high rises, keep saying no.
Zoning is different than that
By anon
Sun, 06/12/2016 - 11:43am
Zoning is different than that.
It's about the variances
By cinnamngrl
Mon, 06/13/2016 - 2:43pm
You can ask the city for a permit to build anything within the zoning codes for that address, then no input from the neighborhood is needed. However, if a construction project requires a variance, or some kind of deviation from the zoning for that address community input is required. You need to notify all the abutting property owners.
That is why very large
By anon
Mon, 06/13/2016 - 11:25pm
That is why very large projects have not and mostly do not get built in areas where they are not zoned. Neighborhoods advocate for what they think is best for their area.
No, that's not how the area
By anon
Mon, 06/13/2016 - 11:36am
No, that's not how the area gets developed. Projects have been scaled down. Neighborhoods will continue to give their input.
Wrong info
By me
Sun, 06/12/2016 - 1:20pm
Huge incentive to add parking. Adding space for one care increases the value of the property by $70K at least, lots of people wouldnt touch a place without parking.
If this statement is true,
By eherot
Mon, 06/13/2016 - 9:39am
If this statement is true, why are developers only willing to build the absolute minimum amount of it that the city will let them build?
Here's a hint: An underground parking space adds about $120k to the construction price but the market rate for parking in the area is AT MOST about $300/month. That's quite a big loss for any developer, and that doesn't even count the lost opportunity cost of any additional housing units they could have built.
They want to add less than
By anon
Mon, 06/13/2016 - 11:35am
They want to add less than what the neighborhood wants.
Silver line
By zetag
Sat, 06/11/2016 - 9:50am
Yeah, but i bet you campaigned against getting the silver line to run down Broadway too
Ok let's do that
By cinnamngrl
Sat, 06/11/2016 - 11:51am
Although I think it's a hard sell to say that South Boston has enough school-age children who need more schools. But we really need is a treatment center for people with substance abuse and shelter beds. They would have room for job training as well.
It wouldn't be a charity either government grants pay top dollar to lease facilities to do this.
Massachusetts and Boston is also incredibly short on foster homes and residential care for children. A few beds that are available are all out in the countryside making it difficult for their parents to do counseling with the children
Of course the chance of southie residents approving anything like that is pretty low.
You mean
By me
Sun, 06/12/2016 - 9:42am
like the existing treatment center, the Gavin House, located on 4th St?
You can't go down a street in
By anon
Sat, 06/11/2016 - 7:59pm
This was 26 condos, 40 spaces. What is the appropriate ratio?
Trash neighborhood?
By SoBo-Yuppie
Fri, 06/10/2016 - 11:42pm
Maybe 15 years ago but it has been cleaned up. SoBo is a wonderful place to live now.
i do agree with your comment about the pedophile ring. a tax exempt pedophile ring at that.
Not a neighborhood
By Arthur
Sat, 06/11/2016 - 8:40am
South Boston isn't a neighborhood anymore. The politicians saw to that. When it was a so-called trash neighborhood, just like other city neighborhood's, it was better. There were longtime families who knew each other. There were good blue-collar jobs. There were programs and sports leagues for kids. This transient population of yuppies only cares about living in Southie because there are "cool bars" that they can walk to. The reason they started moving to the "trash neighborhood" is because it's trashy people are the ones who made it safe. I'd gladly turn back the clock 20 years or so and take the neighborhoods that my parents and grandparents grew up in.
And....
By me
Sat, 06/11/2016 - 9:50am
it coddled a generation of opioid addicts.
Southie, the O you place with heroin addicts
By Arthur
Sat, 06/11/2016 - 3:53pm
Is Southie the only place that has an abundance of heroin junkies? Read a Patriot Ledger once in a while. In fact, take a seat in a courtroom in Southie someday. You'd be surprised to find how many junkie crimes are committed by suburban junkies. I'm sure they have none where you blew in from.
You mean the courthouse
By me
Sun, 06/12/2016 - 1:25pm
where Kostka was convicted of killing his elderly neighbor for drug money? Same Kostka whose family tried to literally allow him to get away with murder by claiming his brother might be his twin, and then refusing to give DNA samples? Great family values there.
"Cool bars"
By zetag
Sat, 06/11/2016 - 9:56am
You are extremely delusional. People move here, myself included, because I work downtown and don't want to commute 2+ hours a day from outside the city. If people want to move solely to be closer to the "cool bars" they don't come to last call 1am southie in nanny state massachusetts.
More housing?
By Arthur
Sat, 06/11/2016 - 8:32am
Southie doesn't get more housing? Is that a bad thing? The housing that Southie has been getting isn't for Southie people anyway.
Spoiler alert
By zetag
Sat, 06/11/2016 - 9:59am
If you live in southie you are a southie person, it doesn't matter where you are born. You'll inevitably complain even louder when the building deteriorates beyond repair and gets torn down, so at least we get to look forward to that. That is assuming there are even any townies left in a few years.
No, they really aren't
By anon
Sat, 06/11/2016 - 5:37pm
No, they really aren't Southie people, especially when you consider they only stay for a few years anyway.
They are transplants, and they leave as fast as they come. This is before they move back to the suburbs, or South Carolina while whining about how expensive it is while personally realizing it's much better.
You say townie like it's a bad thing. There's no reason to leave one of the best areas in the country. The transplants from outside of the region and state have a different situation since they came from a place that isn't desirable.
No, this is not coming from a resident of the neighborhood. You sound resentful of people who got to grow up there and have owned property for a long time.
Laughable
By me
Sun, 06/12/2016 - 1:28pm
Why even bother comment on Southie if you admittedly arent a resident? Who wants to hear the opinion of someone who doesnt have knowledge on the subject???
Most people posting in these
By anon
Mon, 06/13/2016 - 11:39am
Most people posting in these comments don't live there or in other topics about neighborhoods and construction projects. Just because you moved to an area and live there for a few years that doesn't mean you've become a part of the neighborhood.
Does the charter school idea make sense?
By anon
Fri, 06/10/2016 - 7:19pm
I don't know, but I do know that the Boston Archdiocese owes some major debt to children.
Getting less money on a real estate deal would be only a small part of the organization's penance.
Too bad
By zetag
Sat, 06/11/2016 - 10:00am
that's not how the real world works.
Money grabbing developers
By Anon
Fri, 06/10/2016 - 8:09pm
More housing? The only thing developers care about is the almighty dollar. They don't care about the neighborhood or the resulting problems from turning any vacant lot, three-decker or church into the cookie-cutter condo.
Good job South Boston for fighting the good fight.
Don't Blame Developers
By Arthur
Sat, 06/11/2016 - 8:48am
Although I agree that these unscrupulous, money-grubbing developers are a problem, what happened to our neighborhood's is not their fault. The blame lies squarely with the politicians who have allowed them to build what they want, where they want, as high as they want, and without regard to the families and elderly being displaced. The politicians are the ones getting their pockets lined with developer chump change. The next time you see a developer in your neighborhood, with plans in hand to build some ridiculous monstrosity that doesn't fit in with the other houses on the street, and you're wondering how he got it approved by the city, go to the Massachusetts Office of Campaign and Political Finance and see how much the developer donated to the politicians. There's your answer. And that's just the money that's reported, not the greenbacks that arrive in a brown paper bag. The fault lies with money-grubbing politicians.
I live two blocks away
By me
Fri, 06/10/2016 - 9:02pm
It is total BS. The neighbors just want it as is because they can park in the school lots. Their motto "Kids before Condos" Is absolutely cynical. It should be "Our cars before your cars". The school is very old. Zero Chance that a charter school will want to move in there, aside from the fact that there is high school about 4 blocks away in the old Southie High that draws about 5% max students from the local area.
They should turn it into a mosque
By TGR
Fri, 06/10/2016 - 9:43pm
n/t
Sorry, people, but a school is not on the table
By Waquiot
Sat, 06/11/2016 - 12:16am
The Archdiocese learned belatedly that turning over closed schools to charters just leads to more pupils leaving the Catholic schools. I mean, why pay money to escape the public schools when you can go to a charter school for free.
For someone that grew up here
By John
Sat, 06/11/2016 - 3:42am
For someone that grew up here in southie more condos is pretty ridiculous in the neighborhood. Not only is the removal of a landmark in the neighborhood an issue but the parking is as well. Yes the city needs more units for people to live in, Dorchester, Hyde Park, East Boston, and Roxbury are fantastic fits for that. South boston is a very condensed neighborhood and sticking an additional 30 units with 60 people in which equals approximately an additional 30 cars by the Tynan school is ridiculous, let alone if they have people visiting. Unless each single unit built has a minimum of 2 parking spots and all new units CANNOT get resident street parking I think the construction of condos in areas similar to Gate of Heaven should not be allowed and I completely agree with the courts and disagree with the people that think they know what they are talking about as bloggers on universalhub.com.
Get your facts correct
By me
Sat, 06/11/2016 - 9:52am
There was never discussion to remove the landmark. They were converting it to condos, and preserving the landmark, just like the gym across the street.
"Yes the city needs more
By eherot
Sat, 06/11/2016 - 10:26am
"Yes the city needs more units for people to live in, Dorchester, Hyde Park, East Boston, and Roxbury are fantastic fits for that."
That's funny because I just went to a neighborhood meeting in Roxbury about a condo project where I was told by an abutter that we should be building more housing in Southie instead. You can imagine that if politicians actually listened to both of your concerns we'd end up with some kind of housing crisis.
Oh, wait.
Except the housing problem is
By anon
Sat, 06/11/2016 - 5:38pm
Except the housing problem is largely due to outside demand rather than a single amount that you can actually build for. The growth is limited, and that's a good thing because it's more sustainable.
Also, East Boston is already
By eherot
Sat, 06/11/2016 - 10:49am
Also, East Boston is already much denser than Southie, and the South End is denser than both of them, so the idea that Southie cannot grow to accommodate more residents sounds like BS to me. The only reason Southie has for not growing is that its existing residents are too stubborn to allow it. The true test of our mayor's commitment to solving the housing crisis will be whether he continues to put these residents' concerns ahead of all the renters and newcomers that will inevitably be forced out as a result of it.
http://www.bostonredevelopmentauthority.org/getatt...
Priorities
By Arthur
Sat, 06/11/2016 - 11:48am
Are you saying that mayor should put the concerns of transient renters and newcomers ahead of those of the long-time residents who made this neighborhood so attractive to you in the first place?
1) Condos not rentals
By eherot
Sat, 06/11/2016 - 1:21pm
1) Condos not rentals
2) Everyone was a newcomer at some point. We built infill housing before, and we can do it again.
3) Renting does not mean transient
4) Even if it did, "transients" still need housing just like the rest of us, and they're going to pay to live here whether we like it or not. If we don't build housing for them, they're just going to bid up the price of yours.
"We built infill housing
By anon
Sat, 06/11/2016 - 5:46pm
"We built infill housing before, and we can do it again."
Not as easily as before.
"and they're going to pay to live here whether we like it or not. If we don't build housing for them, they're just going to bid up the price of yours."
Not all of them, some just won't move here, and the region has plenty of demand at the current level.
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