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Gas bags tag Back Bay gas leaks
By adamg on Sun, 12/11/2016 - 1:03pm
Bloated orange-bodied protesters (and svelter orange-haired City Councilor Matt O'Malley) joined Mothers Out Front to put tags near some of the natural-gas leaks in the Back Bay yesterday. O'Malley (Jamaica Plain/West Roxbury) says better National Grid fix the thousands of leaks that he says costs consumers $90 million a year than accept gas from the recently completed West Roxbury pipeline.
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Comments
Where did they get $90 million?
Because if that is true they deserve support on this particular issue
The $90M figure is for the
The $90M figure is for the Greater Boston area, and comes from a 2015 published study done by a team led by Harvard scientists at the School of Engineering and Applied Sciences.
Clarification
The folks pictured here are not protesting the gas pipeline, they are raising awareness of the thousands of leaks in the natural gas distribution system in Boston. Locally, leaking gas underground kills trees. Globally, leaked natural gas is roughly 30x more potent than carbon dioxide as a greenhouse gas.
Fixing the leaks is easy, low-hanging fruit; a triple win that saves valuable trees and plantings; that protects the global environment, and that stops wasting gas that could otherwise be used for energy.
Unfortunately, the owners of the gas distribution system have very little incentives to fix the leaks; leaked gas does not cost them as, under the tariffs, lost gas is included in the rate base charged to consumers.
Thanks for the clarification
I wouldn't have even mentioned the pipeline except for O'Malley being in the picture. He's sponsoring a measure that would try to get Boston's two gas companies (Eversource serves a part of Hyde Park) to do something about all the leaks, some of which have been around for years. He has also been active in the fight against the pipeline, and has used fixing the leaks as evidence that National Grid doesn't need the pipeline gas because they could save a lot of gas by fixing the leaks.
Cheaper to let the gas leak than to fix minor leaks
The leaks may be costing consumers $90 million, but to fix all the leaks would make the Big Dig look like a bargain. You're talking tens of billions, not to mention the disruption and costs of digging up roads under which the gas lines run.
National Grid and its sub-contractors are out there 24/7, 365 days a year fixing the major and moderate leaks. The less significant leaks are addressed when time allows. If you smell natural gas on the street or sidewalk, call immediately and they will send a crew to determine the severity of the leak. 1-800-233-LEAK.
Sorry that some of the leaks are killing trees, but I'd rather a $250 monthly gas bill than $2500.
Pooya
Multiple reports, both nationally and regionally, show that the cost to repair leaks would be a fraction of what it costs to produce and deliver the same amount that is lost. Sure, it's cheaper for the gas companies...because they get to pass the cost on to us and aren't held responsible for keeping their own infrastructure in good repair.
Here's a report from Sen. Markey's office which documents that Mass consumers paid $1.5 billion in extra charges from 2000-2011 because of leaking pipelines.
$1.5 billion would pay for a shit-ton more repair crews that I think even you would be so brazen as to claim exist now.
$250 vs. $2500? A strawman load of crap. But please, by all means present a counter reference that the cost to fix leaky pipes would be anything like that.
You do understand, I hope...
... that there is technology for re-lining pipes that does not involve digging them up...
... that a lot of leaking components are accessible from utility access covers and do not require digging up the street...
... that nobody's asking for anything economically infeasible; just to correctly align the incentives (i.e., the decision to fix or not fix leaks, the cost of fixing the leaks, the cost of the gas lost via the leaks, and liability for damage done by the leaking gas, ought to all reside in the same place.)
Re: Bob Leponge
Actually I don't understand. I worked the police detail alongside Bostongas, Keyspan and National Grid for years, even attended weddings and remain close with many of the gas technicians. Some of the best men you could work with. What is a utility access cover, is that a manhole? I never saw or heard of them fix a leak from a manhole or central station. Telephone and electric could sometimes be fixed from a manhole but not gas.
In my experience, if a natural gas leak was detected in front of an address, they would jackhammer and excavate there and repair the leak and move onto the next one. Perhaps there is a system in place now to re-line mains, but that isn't happening at midnight on Christmas Eve when there's a smell of gas outside of St. Anthony's on Arch Street or Yawkey Way during a game. Even if they could re-line the mains, what about the side streets, dead ends, cul-de-sacs and street-to-home, street-to-business, street-to-school, street-to-church connections that all have tiny leaks? Are you going to repair those by re-lining from distant "access covers". Pardon the pun but it's a pipe dream.
In my experience
when someone has a jackhammer, they find a reason to dig up the street.
Ah, it's our revolving expert
And I suppose if you worked a detail in front of a bakery, you'd be a pastry chef. Oh gosh, there was probably a pastry chef involved in the baking of your wedding cake; why that practically makes you a pastry chef yourself!
Revolving expert: sit and spin.
Here. Learn something
https://lmgtfy.com/?q=relining+gas+mains
What is a utility access
A manhole is one size and shape of utility access cover. There are others, ranging from something you can reach your arm into, to big hinged covers through which you can lower a big piece of equipment with a crane.
https://lmgtfy.com/?q=utility+access+cover
Factor in the healthcare costs, dude
Natural gas leaks are also known to contain VOCs, which are ozone precursors. They locally raise the levels of ground level ozone, which is an irritant known to cause serious respiratory problems and illness.
Add in that ground level ozone with Massachusetts' highest-in-the-nation asthma prevalence and aging population with COPD you get an enormous number of preventable respiratory hospitalizations.
Those cost a lot of money - not everyone free rides on Medicare like you do.
Speaking of gas bags...
You talk as if you had some sort of empirical source of information - more likely to originates from your butt.
We need to press NGrid on "super-emitters"
Currently, the utilities are required to repair potentially explosive leaks, even small ones (which of course we want them to continue to do) -- but there has been NO requirement for them to fix potentially very large leaks that are not deemed to be explosive hazards (i.e., not in contained spaces). They have had no requirement nor any incentive to repair or even identify these large climate-busting leaks: super-emitters. Research by BU scientists shows that only 7% of the leaks emit 50% of the methane. We want the utilities to prioritize this smaller number of leaks for immediate repair, and for starters, we want them to come up with scientifically sound ways to identify these super-emitters. This does not need to be a budget-buster, given the number of leaks involved. Some of the other utilities are agreeing to do this, but we haven't heard anything similar from National Grid thus far. This was the reason behind last weekend's action.
To replace all of the old gas mains in NYC $10 billion
That's just the mains (under main strets) and doesn't count the side streets and street-to-home, street-to-business connections that are also leaking. Almost three years later and considering the Big Dig was estimated at $2 billion and wound up costing closer to $20 billion+ as water continues to pour in, you do the math. I'd rather a $90 million loss and a few trees than tens of billions added to our gas bills. As even the far-left NY Times reported, almost all of the leaks are harmless. I agree that gas leaks are an issue but perhaps its just the cost of staying warm in these frigid autumn days of Global Warming. Can't wait until winter kicks in!
Funny numbers
Note that:
Do you fear replacing the sewer lines?
Where would you get your "information" feed from if they fixed all those leaks?
More crazy non-facts, dubious "logic" and sketchy smelling just-so tales sprayed from the mother pool of all b.s.
http://fyi.uwex.edu/manureirrigation/
There will always be some "leakage." Gov. Deval Patrick
In my own home and all of my Section-8 rentals, I like to have Mass Save come in for the yearly energy audit and freebies. My oil burners all test 85-90% efficient but as the kid from Mass Save says, it's nearly impossible to get much higher. I have the newest most energy efficient windows but there is still a slight draft. They offer free or discounted insulation but I haven't gotten to that yet. As our beloved Gov. Deval Patrick said when 10% of EBT checks were going to non-existent people, there will always be some "leakage." Same as natural gas.
You obviously are trying to impress us with you real estate
references - why don't you reveal your true identity so you we can all get to know you better and, of course, verify your vast wealth. No? Didn't think so.
You'd be crazy to identify yourself here
Notice the nasty tone that pops up in most comment threads.
And it's not unusual for a local in their 50s or later to own rentals. Back then, a blue collar salary could let you buy not only a primary property in town, but also investment properties.
Economic sense
O-Fish-L - you clearly know what you're talking about. The action that MOF was taking was not however was to fix the high-volume gas leaks, not the tiny ones. That's why the protesters were dressed up in the big orange suits.
Research shows that some gas leaks emit 1,000 therms or more per year. Even for folks not concerned about the climate, that means fixing that leak (average cost $3,000) would earn out in under 3 years. The median age of a grade 3 leak (a leak considered non-explosive) in Boston is 16 years. It make economic and climate sense to fix these high-volume leaks.
Did you say Section 8?