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Trumpland, MA: Trumpkin starts screaming at Dunkin' Donuts workers in Malden
By adamg on Wed, 01/25/2017 - 10:31am
NBC Boston reports on a Saturday incident in which a Proud 'Murrican in Malden decided to scream at a couple of Dunkin' Donuts workers that "Trump is here go back home!" Another woman in turn started screaming at her to shut the frick up and go home herself.
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Comments
WOW. Just wow....
WOW. Just wow....
Counterpoint:
Dunks franchises that staff recent immigrants (judging entirely by accents which may not be totally accurate) tend to provide quick, efficient, and accurate service. Meanwhile, the couple dunks nearest me who are staffed by American teenagers constantly screw up orders and take forever.
Bring on the immigrants, say I.
Generalizing like that kind
Generalizing like that kind of sucks. Overall I have never noticed any issues or differences between immigrants and American teenagers when buying a cup of coffee. I see plenty of American teens in retail / restaurant industry busting their ass to make a few bucks to contribute toward bills, save money for school, etc. Perhaps your choice of chain coffee fast food store is not professionally managed. Maybe you should try something other than Dunks... like a local coffee shop, just a thought.
Larger Point
If you stopped immigrants from working in the food service industry about 1/2 the restaurants in Boston would close due to lack of labor. There simply isn't enough teenagers and underemployed people to fill the need. This is not the 1980s.
Most competent, natively born teenagers who stay in school are able to find higher paying or more enjoyable work.
Also, teenage kids don't plan on being a dunkins for a while. Older immigrants have more of an incentive to work hard and take the job seriously vs someone who plans to quit as soon as they finish school.
While the context based from
While the context based from this article is going to make me sound racist, I have to voice my dissension on using the argument we need immigrants else we will not have the labor to staff the food service industry. I just came back from traveling other countries that have much less diversity (Japan and Taiwan), and they seem to handle just fine without relying on 1st generation to staff service jobs.
I must explain at this point that this is not an argument that the people on this topic should "go back to their countries" or anything about that. Just annoyed at this argument because it's not true. Things would be different - staffed by different people and differences in businesses - but not "1/2 of the business would close".
I must also mentioned this assumes an organic scenario. If every immigrant in the food service industry were kicked out right now or something like that, then yes, 1/2 of places may well close for lack of staff.
As a sidenote, one likely effect is higher wages as more restaurants would be fighting over workers. So that would be some stores won't exist because it can't afford it. But there's been discussion here about if certain restaurants can't afford higher wages, then it shouldn't exist.
You're wrong
I work with restaurant owners often. In almost every restaurant in greater Boston they are desperate for help, both front of house (servers) and back of house (kitchen). Few places are able to fill all the positions they have with the people they want.
Almost every owner/manager would rather have native english speakers in their restaurant. It's [mostly] not a racist thing, it's just that it's easier to communicate with people if there isn't any language barrier. It's also critical to have someone who will come to work on time and can do the job.
But since there aren't enough reliable natives available at the prevailing wages they turn to immigrants and even then it's hard to staff all positions.
And you can't just keep raising prices. Restaurants are a competitive business. Raising prices by 20% and losing 20% of your customers isn't a win.
I'm not going to contest
I'm not going to contest your knowledge of the restaurant industry of Boston or that owners are looking for more employees. I'm just point out that there has to be other labor models that exist where we still have a thriving service industry but not depend on immigrants for staffing. If there is not, then there's has to be a reasons where developed countries like Taiwan and Japan have low immigration but still able to staff their stores and restaurants.
If we take out all the immigrants now, obviously Boston's service industry would collapse. But in a hypothetical timeline where Boston developed with a timeline where such labor pool does not exist, I don't think Boston would have a dead restaurant scene.
Comparison
There are so many cultural and economic differences between Boston and Asian cities that it's a nearly useless comparison. Anyway, you only need to leave the urban areas in metro Boston to find natives working in Dunkins. It's an urban vs rural thing. Boston, being a wealthy large city, has better opportunities for natives and a thriving service industry. Southern NH, not as much.
Taiwan and Japan are
Taiwan and Japan are different countries, but I disagree that it can't be used as a frame of reference. Just saying they are different culturally and economically is hand waving without analyzing what is the actual difference. They may have a much different culture and economy, but remains high developed society with similar infrastructure and educated population. The people have similar economic opportunities with similar demands for daily life. Yet despite having the same economic elements, they do have large amount of immigration, this seems to undermine the argument that the service industry needs immigrants or the will not be viable.
Again this is not an argument or a proxy argument against immigrant, but to point out my dissension to using arguments that we need immigrants or our restaurant industry would collapse (in a timeline where Boston developed from earlier decades with less immigrants).
Currently, right now, the anon below me did gave a specific economic-cultural argument where we pay service workers like crap.
That said, you do have a point that we don't need to go to the other side of the world to look for examples of natives staffing a Dunkin Donuts or equivalent. But it again shows there are holes in the argument that we need immigration or else restaurants will collapse has holes.
yes - there is a reason
THEY PAY THE STAFF A LIVING WAGE!!!! My sister and niece lived in London - same niece lives in Norway. A crappy pizza there is over $50 because they pay the front staff and the kitchen staff enough to live (like have shelter and food - healthcare is already taken care of, not like here).
Here, it's legal to pay waitresses LESS than the already pretty crappy minimum wage because they're expected to make up the rest in tips - as in, we'll tax you as though you did, even if you didn't plus we'll audit you because we don't trust that you've claimed them all (if the Owner's ever passed the tips onto them that is). Many European countries don't allow tipping - it's built in to the prices of the food. So unless you're at Capital Grille or some other $$$$ restaurant, expect that the waitress you're stiffing is getting under $3/hr before tips (some of the higher end places actually pay them nothing and they get paid in tips only).
The back of the house staff (who don't always get a cut in the tips) in many of the restaurants here and elsewhere are typically immigrants, many of whom are paid less than minimum wage by the Owners due to them not knowing their rights, immigration status, etc. The US economy, and especially the food industry, is heavily dependent upon immigrants getting paid very little, including the harvesting of the food, the processing of the meats in slaughterhouses, etc.
These other countries that "somehow" have more homogeneous looking staff front and back of the house also have higher taxes but get cheaper or free University, more mandatory vacation hours, maternity leave, single payer health care, etc. I'd like all those things here and really don't care what color the kitchen staff is or what language they speak.
Don't forget
that lettuce would go to $4 a head, and food costs in general would spike drastically as farms in the southeast and on the west coast would no longer be able to pay undocumented workers to pick produce. (You'll recall what happened in Georgia a few years ago when they made an effort to stamp out illegal workers?) Between the increase in labor prices and food costs, you could reasonably expect the cost of eating out to double in the absence of immigrants labor.
The wrong argument is being made
If there aren't enough people to pick the lettuce (or whatever), the answer is not to turn a blind eye to illegal immigration. The answer is to properly investigate and address the agricultural guest worker program's shortcomings.
Sadly for some, the results of the workers having legal status would mean pressure for at least enforcement of minimum wage, which would spike food costs.
You cannot have decent wages and decent prices at the same time. I root for wages, but that's just me.
Dunks only hires legal workers
All have to go to the training facility in Revere with proof that they are legal to work and have a bank account.
Since this started as a dunks thread....
Good call
The $4 lettuce thing got me on that tangent.
This is also something I've been pondering lately. I was at one of those casual fast food placed I will not name whose staff is entirely Brazilian. I've got nothing against Brazilians, but I do remember how a certain now defunct pizza chain basically got people to come illegally to work for them, then underpaid them. I tend to view immigration from an economic perspective, so the tension between people working under the table for low wages due to their immigration status versus what we need to pay for the goods or services they provide rattles through my head.
But kudos to the DD, for both helping immigrants get their start and for obeying the law. And, of course, for employing all sorts of people, like your son.
Thanks
I agree with you on the picking produce thing ... I'm probably among the last generation of white underclass persons to do that (and not as consistently as my parents did from childhood onward).
By the time that I had gotten past the point of having to do that sort of work, the fields were increasingly picked by migrant Mexican labor, rather than locals hopping on the berry buses when they needed some money.
Despite being fairly fit, I'm probably too old for that now anyway - but it is one of the last things that I would resort to in a crisis because it is hard work and it is skilled work if you want to make a living of it.
This is an excellent post.
This is an excellent post. Many people fail to look even as far back as say the 1950's here in the US to the guest worker programs that were in place specifically to address the needs for seasonal agricultural workers when looking for solutions. Programs existed to allow migrant workers to come to the US legally and perform those tasks, they were then paid above board and sent home when the work was complete. At some point these guest worker programs were scaled back dramatically and/or eliminated. This led to our current situation of turning a blind eye to massive illegal immigration, in order to have enough people available to perform the necessary jobs that "Americans will not take". Now we are constantly arguing over what to do about people who have been here in America for years, working and living illegally. We need to stop the insanity. Having the same arguments every decade or so about giving amnesty to everyone currently in the US illegally, patting ourselves on the back and then burying our heads in the sand until the cycle repeats itself over and over again is not a satisfactory resolution.
A very reasonable solution would be to move back in the direction of legal guest worker programs for certain job types. All while increasing penalties significantly on those coming into the US illegally or overstaying once they have legally entered the country, as well as increasing penalties significantly on businesses that employee those who are here illegally. At the same time simplifying access for legal guest workers to fill open jobs in agriculture, restaurants and other service based industries.
Citizenship should be easier to obtain for people with advanced skills and education that are in high demand. To compete in the future global economy we need a highly skilled and educated work force, those workers will come from a diverse group of foreign nations and we need to welcome all of them with open arms. However we can not continue to treat those workers who would pick fruits and vegetables as some how being so valuable to the US economy that we must accept unfettered illegal immigration as the only possible way to staff those positions.
This is a hot button issue for many, that can stir up all types of emotions. Many times emotions can get in the way of rational discussion. We need to approach this situation rationally as a nation and look for a sustainable long term solution. The current system is broken and we can no longer continue to kick the can a little bit farther, while yelling at each other.
George W. Bush tried to
George W. Bush tried to propose an improved guest worker program. It went nowhere. The path to citizenship was a no-go for his party.
Can You...
...perhaps explain this to my getting-crustier-as-he-gets-older father who is a baby boomer and just not getting it. Dude has a Masters in Business but he's drinking the piss kool aid being dished out by the "new guy in DC." I cant even say his name. Smh
My son worked for Dunks
He is an American teenager.
He would tend to agree with you, except for the times when being a native English speaker came in handy. Not so much the teens but the US born folks ... Like the piece of work who decided that he was in charge when the manager stepped out so he could avoid doing any work at all. He was fired when he threw a fit because he didn't get the easy hours he thought he was owed for being a white male non teen.
Then again, if a worker acts like they don't understand you when you are being nasty, chances are they are just avoiding you.
The high schoolers
who work at Fornax Bakery in Roslindale are awesome!
Not in my experience, but
Not in my experience, but Fornax is one of those quirky local once in a while businesses where the disorganization and having the line skipped around is just part of the whole experience. Dunkin Donuts is a fast food chain and "quick and accurate" is the entire appeal, so less forgivable.
You mean,
bring on the tens of millions of immigrants,legal and illegal, who're are desperate and willing to work as an adult for low wages and whose presence in such massive numbers keeps wages low?
Disappointing that Dunkin
Disappointing that Dunkin Donuts didn't make a comment against discrimination in support of their employees in their statement regarding this bigoted incident. At least that lady stood up for what's right. Good for her!
Sticking up for people
Good for the bystander for sticking up for these people. This kind of stupid bigotry has no place in a civilized country.
Civilized Country?
The same country where Madonna is cheered when threatening to blow up the White House?
Not quite what she said
But then, understanding subtlety is a lost art, I guess. Here's what she said:
Not exactly the same thing as leading a march with a stick of dynamite to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. or even threatening to do so.
Source.
But she has had thoughts
But she has had thoughts about blowing up the White House. Perhaps she needs counseling
I must not think bad thoughts
Double plus ungood!
Perhaps
Having a baboon who claims that the laws that apply to the president don't apply to him sets the tone for "uncivilized"?
Maybe?