Residents raise their hands in opposition to the proposed school.
Officials at Roxbury Prep managed to provide a presentation on their proposal for an 800-student high school on Belgrade Avenue at a meeting tonight at which they were accused of getting ready to ruin the neighborhood, by people who said they don't understand why the school can't put its building someplace else, someplace more "central" to students from Dorchester, Roxbury and Hyde Park than the Roslindale/West Roxbury line.
Aides to the mayor and City Councilor Tim McCarthy at times struggled to maintain decorum in the overcrowded meeting room at District E-5. The meeting was so jammed, some people tried to listen in through an open door as they stood on a walkway outside; one woman in that crowd managed to get in a question through a window cracked open a few inches. The meeting started with calls to reschedule the meeting or to move it to the Holy Name parish hall across the rotary. "Even though it's Ash Wednesday, we still need a little more room here!" one woman exclaimed.
Roxbury Prep, a charter school, has yet to formally file plans with the BPDA or the zoning board for its $28.5-million proposal to replace the current Clay Auto and NTB buildings.
The session tonight was officially an "informal" meeting for abutters to learn more about the proposal and help the school fine tune the proposal for a three-story high school that would include science labs, a gym, a theater and a cafeteria - which Roxbury Prep's current secondary program, housed in two separate buildings in JP and Roxbury, doesn't have.
Proposed exterior design, as seen from across Belgrade:
Traffic and parking were two key issues. School officials expect that 90% of the students would continue to take public transportation to the new school, which is one of the reasons they chose the Clay site, because it's right next to the Bellevue stop on the Needham Line, a short ride from Forest Hills, and is passed by three bus lines out of Forest Hills. 66 parking spaces would be more than enough for staffers and the occasional visitor, they said.
Many residents didn't buy this for a second. "We can't even rely on the T to be on time for us," and parents would start driving their kids to school, one resident said. "You don't know what you're talking about," another resident told school officials. "Don't lie to me."
Other residents said West Roxbury Parkway and Belgrade Avenue are already, as one put it, "chock-a-block" in the morning and worried that students - both from Roxbury Prep and from other schools playing its teams in the gym - would begin parking on their streets. They pointed to MJ's - now Stash's - on Belgrade Avenue as an example of how they can't trust the word of any proposed operation along Belgrade. One resident said she was not opposed to the school but said she is worried that ongoing development along Belgrade is too much and called on city officials to do something.
Adam Seidel, director of operations for the school, said students and parents will not tie up nearby parking spaces, that the school has strong conduct policies and that he personally would be out and about ensuring the school does not interfere with the neighborhood - he said he would even give residents his cell number.
One resident brought up what she said was the school's high attrition rate from ninth to tenth grade, so high, she said, that any BPS school that had such a rate would be shut down. Seidel said a key reason for the attrition is that students want to go to a school with proper facilities, which Roxbury Prep doesn't currently have - and which, he added, is why it wants to build a new school.
"Put it someplace else!" one resident yelled. "We're taxpayers! We don't want it here!"
Comments like that prompted Celdra Allen-Harding, a Roxbury Prep parent who lives in Roslindale, to say she was hurt to hear her neighbors talk about "those people" and how Roxbury Prep officials should "put it in their neighborhoods."
A number of residents yelled "No!" and said they have nothing against the school, but that that corner is just the wrong location for it because of the traffic and parking issues.
A couple of minutes later, though, a resident noted how few of the school's students come from Roslindale and West Roxbury, said the school "benefits people from other neighborhoods" and demanded to know: "Why are we being asked to shoulder this?"
Residents and a member of the development team then got into an argument over whether the site is in West Roxbury or Roslindale. When the guy noted that one reason to build the school in Roslindale was because Roslindale currently doesn't have a high school, a resident replied it used to, but then the city shut it and moved everybody over to that giant high school in West Roxbury.
"Sorry, I can't do anything about that," he replied, which was not what the resident wanted to hear. "Half the kids (at West Roxbury) don't care about the neighborhood," she said. "This school is water tight," and its students know acting up before or after school has consequences, school attorney Joe Hanley said.
Many residents snorted and harrumphed, although other residents said they are glad Roslindale might be getting a high school and that even if neighbors see no direct immediate benefit, they would see long-term benefits from the well educated, community-minded students the school would turn out.
The battle over student conduct continued. One Guernsey Street resident said she just knew the students would start congregating in the neighborhood, buying and doing drugs and spray painting graffiti all over. "It's going to change the whole fabric of the neighborhood!" she complained, adding, no, she has nothing against Roxbury Prep students. "I don't care if they're in Wellesley, in West Roxbury or in Mattapan," students are students, and they cause trouble by their very nature, she said.
"I don't know what fantasy world you're living in!" a school backer yelled at her, praising the school for running a tight ship that produces well educated students not neighborhood nuisances.
"It's nothing about the children," one Iona Road resident said. "Please don't do this to yourself - or to us."
He said his main criticism was that the school is simply too small for 800 kids. "It's like a Japanese hotel room." But he was also concerned about parents double parking as they drop off or pick up kids. "I don't want it to be like South Boston."
Crowded room:
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Comments
The kids are going the
By anon
Thu, 03/02/2017 - 12:27pm
The kids are going the opposite direction than most commuters, though. I used to take the 36 (sometimes 35,37) outwards in the morning to work at the VA and those busses were E E M P T Y. Totally full coming towards Forest Hills, though, I agree - plus bunched up like a nightmare,
Roxbury Prep Development
By Leo729
Thu, 03/02/2017 - 9:34am
Not only a show of Nimbyism, but racism too! Seem like these "neighbors" not only have a sense of entitlement, but also, an inability to compromise.. A school sounds like a good proposal to me. Much better than another Bank or restaurant in West Roxbury/Roslindale!
Traffic,safety and cumulative developments at Belgrade & W. Rox
By Kathy. Cummings
Thu, 03/02/2017 - 6:11pm
The location of this school is in a dangerous intersection for traffic, safety, environmental issues and the future results of the cumulative developments, which have been approved and not built or functioning YET!!! Belgrade has more apartments coming. Belgrade gas station is being converted into apartments. Lords and Lady's has a very large development. Greaton Rd and Center has 12 condos with Greaton Rd. new entrance. Willow St apartments are yet to be built. There is a new project at Center and Church, which was just revealed in the Bulletin. Then we have the upcoming Weld and Center apartments and on and on. Throw in the nightmare traffic from Putterham Rotary to Enneking Pkwy. and beyond. Unfortunately, all this construction is in the same area as the proposed Roslindale charter school, which is all part of Boston!
Take a look at Belgrade from W. Rox. Pkwy. corner up to Center and you will see 2 sides of parking, 2 bike routes and 2 lanes of traffic.
The school is under Uncommon Schools, which looks great if you read the summary. However, if the Roxbury Prep hopes to attain a full high school in accordance with the expectations of Uncommon Schools, then there is the possibility of after school, Saturday and Summer school, as well as sports competition with other schools. I applaud all of that. However, it is the location, safety, and traffic that cannot accommodate that type of project. Unfortunately, during last night's meeting, people who attended had to hear the reality of a car accident, sirens and worry for somone who encountered the actual traffic problem and congestion at the area under discussion. I wish the city had a way for residents to learn about proposed construction in a better way than Transcript, Bulletin, chance abutters, hearsay, Parkway in Motion, Chronicles . Hopefully, our City Hall local liaison will find a way for all residents, young and old to share an easy way to communicate and help prevent meetings like March 1!
.
Centre and Church?
By bph
Fri, 03/03/2017 - 5:22pm
What's the project at the corner of Centre & Church Sts.?
Traffic and Parking are always the excuses
By anon
Thu, 03/02/2017 - 9:39am
They cant be outwardly NIMBY or racist so they just say some nonsense about traffic and parking.
Same excuses that they use to try and prevent mosques from being built.
Nice write-up, Adam. Plus ca change...
By issacg
Thu, 03/02/2017 - 9:41am
As I was reading this, I was thinking, "the only thing missing from this is some kind of reference to Wellesley."
I'm glad I read until the end.
My only other reaction to this was that it reminds me of the historical accounts that I read of the 1970s. Surprisingly (given the license that has been given by people at the federal level), the commentary was not as overt as it could have been (unless Adam cleaned it up), but I could hear that 1970s-era message coming through pretty clearly ("You know where I stand" etc.)
I found this comment, which sounds like it might have been offered in an earnest/pleading kind of way, to be particularly ominous:
Adam, since I wasn't there, could you offer some context for that one?
Dapper
By anon
Thu, 03/02/2017 - 10:04am
Don't forget some of these people probably voted for our original proto-Trump, Dapper O'Neil for years.
Funny our little neighborhood can both have people protesting racism at the Square while only steps away from a plaque commemorating that piece of garbage. Truly, Roslindale is diverse.
900 Student School On Belgrade
By Belgrade Person
Thu, 03/02/2017 - 10:14am
Why is the number of students always limited by the developer and even by Adam the reporter? Look at the Rox Prep website -
"Roxbury Prep High School opened in the fall of 2015, serving all students graduating from Roxbury Prep's middle school campuses and additional students drawn from a lottery. Serving up to 900 students, Roxbury Prep High School offers"
http://roxburyprep.uncommonschools.org/rpc/campuse...
check the website yourself and ask "why did they tell the abutters it would be "a couple hundred students" at the fist meeting; then "around 700 students" at the second meeting; and even here they are saying 800 students?
"We're taxpayers!"
By SC from JP
Thu, 03/02/2017 - 11:45am
The ancient rallying cry of the most insufferable people in the world.
Wait a few years ,lease Holy Name
By Richard Tarris
Thu, 03/02/2017 - 12:09pm
As a father of three girls in Boston Colleigate and a lifelong Rosliindsle resident (50yrs). I say stop sounding and looking like southie in 1975. Traffic and parking is that the best you can come up with? Westiie will never change still all snotty and racist.
Hey Roxbury Prep just wait acouple of more years and Holy Name will probably give you a great lease.
Charter schools are the best thing to happen in the city in years. It would be nice to have some more local options in the future, also charter school kids aren't going to be causing trouble, their held to a much higher standard then the kids at say the complex on the parkway.
As a "Westie" resident, I
By anon
Fri, 03/03/2017 - 8:57pm
As a "Westie" resident, I resent you're calling all West Roxbury people snotty and racist. I am neither. You, however, sound like a jerk, so actually, maybe I would be snotty to you. When you put down residents of another neighborhood, it makes you sound jealous of that neighborhood. Heck, it's what I do to a place like Wellesley. I put them down as racist snots but in reality, I want what they have.
That's pretty funny
By adamg
Fri, 03/03/2017 - 9:18pm
Because your closing sentences show you know as little about Wellesley as you claim other people know about West Roxbury.
Help me understand this
By anon
Thu, 03/02/2017 - 12:15pm
Residents not wanting a HS which serves almost no pupils in the area is racist, but Dudley residents fighting to stop "gentrification" (white people moving in) is progressive....
This is no different than the opposition you see from ALL COMMUNITIES in Boston during large projects. Its just happens to involve a majority white area and pupils not from there. And calling everyone a racist i guess is the easiest rebuttal when you don't have a valid one. It's no different than calling ALL Trump supporters Nazi's
Apples and Oranges
By smarterthanyou
Fri, 03/03/2017 - 3:50pm
So how many Roslindale/West Roxbury residents is this high school going to displace? Your talking apples and oranges buddy.
Behind Emporium
By anon
Thu, 03/02/2017 - 12:26pm
On Washington Street is a huge unused, undeveloped plot of land. In walking distance to Forest Hill and not in a residential area.
Problem solved; better for the proposed neighbors and easier commute for the students.
You're welcome,
I'll do you one better
By Waquiot
Thu, 03/02/2017 - 3:27pm
At the corner of Belgrade Avenue and West Roxbury Parkway there is a plot of land that already has foundations put down, and it is zoned commercial.
The lot you are thinking of, in taking the google satellite view, is being used for what looks to be light industrial right now. But if it is ever developed in a different way, it would be a great place for transit oriented development. Walking distance to the subway and the Arboretum, and you won't have any pesky NIMBYs to contend with. Of course, who knows what is in that soil.
Other Options?
By Scott Bortolotto
Thu, 03/02/2017 - 2:00pm
This land in question is not up for sale for development. It is being held in trust, so the only things that can be built in this location is something like this school, perhaps retail space, or an apartment building, but certainly not condos. The area is not strong enough to support any more retail space, we already have enough banks, pizza places, and nail salons for the community. If you think that a school, one that opens before most people leave for work and closes before most people come home is a problem, can you imagine what a nightmare it would be with a 75 unit apartment complex there? Let's also consider the parking problem if it's an apartment complex, where do you think all of these people will park? Even if they have to provide one space for each apartment, do you think there will only be one car per apartment? No, and they'll be parking in the spot that you work so hard for to clear during the winter. There are already two apartment buildings going up in the neighborhood, I don't think the area can sustain any more.
Boston is a wonderful city, and out neighborhood is filled with great opportunity. Let's keep it open for everyone.
Overdevelopment of Roslindale
By Cardly Believe It
Thu, 03/02/2017 - 2:34pm
I suspect a piece of the problem is development in that area that is close to each other. You have this school, the new apartments proposed for McCraw and Belgrade (across from Stash's) and the apartments at Belgrade and Beech. You'd have non-stop construction on going for months if not years. There are no regulations or laws that require such projects to coordinate with each other as well. Each would be self-contained. That's a lot of construction.
Also, let's face it... the efforts by Roslindale residents to re-zone the community a few years ago is going down the toilet. People spent almost 2 years defining what they wanted in the way of residential and business zoning in order to keep Roslindale what it is today - a nice place to live. Or as some like to say... "quirky."
However that same influx that came to Roslindale because of this zoning and community make-up is now seeking to impose new thinking that includes more-density. It's been seen here and on Facebook.
Developers are savvy to this and have been buying up lots and building what ever. Some have been buying up older homes and demolishing them in order to put up multiple dwellings. The rents at the shops in Roslindale Village have also been going up forcing out those same "quirky" businesses that drew people here in the first place.
Unfortunately, once that happens Roslindale will be just another place where urban sprawl took over. The newbies need to look up the revised zoning and embrace it. that is what is making Roslindale a nice place to live and making it desirable. The people who are often proposing something else have no clue at the great lengths people went to with local government, community committees, meetings (loads of those) and working with hired agencies to help with the process.
Did you know that for the most part height is limited to 35 ft? Taller - need a variance. Two parking spaces (off street) per dwelling. Less spaces?- need a variance. And a pet peeve, business windows are supposed to allow you to see inward by a high percentage. The auto parts store and the dollar store violate that all the time. There are plenty of others as well.
Yet the newbies don't know this and allow for the variances. So they will soon vary themselves out of what drew them to Roslindale in the first place.
Upset about how some fo the people in that neighborhood reacted? Well, I'm not really surprised at all. They are saying, "Enough is enough," and this school was the collateral damage that managed to break the camel's back. I'd best-guess that had this been an apartment building or a strip mall you'd have seen the same outrage.
As to city government failing to help uphold the recently enacted (just a few years back) new zoning for Roslindale. Oh... there are going to be a lot of new faces after this next election. All you will need is one candidate willing to run on a platform of keeping the status quo, just like the residents established through a well-reasoned and democratic process.
As to the school... I have no skin in that game or neighborhood. Best fo luck with it, but the ongoing development that is changing Roslindale, well it's time we stopped the sprawl and stick to what the residents established and hold the ground. That's what is making Roslindale... Roslindale.
sprawl
By anon
Fri, 03/03/2017 - 8:31am
You keep using that word; I do not think it means what you think it means.
I would prefer a highschool
By Boston born and...
Fri, 03/03/2017 - 6:39am
I would prefer a highschool than another sober house that seems to be expanding and serving more people outside of Boston than its local residents. Traffic and overpopulation in Boston is inevitable. It is rising along with the cost of living. People need to get over their false reasoning behind parking , traffic and location. Tell the real truth about why you dont want to see something positive happen in your community. I truly feel it has nothing to do with the above. You should be ashamed of yourselves for not wanting to support a place of learning in your neighborhood. And moreso for giving a BS reason for not wanting a positive addition.
"Financial sustainability" requires 1,200 not 800 students!
By jshore
Sun, 03/05/2017 - 3:07pm
There will be 1,200 high school seats at Roxbury Prep not 800 seats. In Roxbury Prep's final DESE application questions, they stated, "we want a big high school for the financial sustainability." They stated that 1,200 students were required to finance all the courses they need to meet the conditions of their charter application. They stated that they thought about the financial issues "very deeply." So it would seem that 1,200 students at this location is Roxbury Prep's ultimate goal.
Roxbury Prep Charter Network schools are located in Dorchester, Roxbury and Hyde Park. According to Roxbury Prep's application, parents in those neighborhoods supported their schools because they were located in their neighborhoods, and they didn't want to put their children on the bus. I imagine the disappointment of those parents, who have made a commitment to Roxbury Prep charter, and expected a Roxbury Prep neighborhood high school for their child, not a two hour bus ride to another community, adding to an already long, extended day program.
So it puzzles me as to why Roxbury Prep doesn't want to build a new High School Campus in a central location to their other schools. Especially when all Roxbury Prep schools share the SWD, ELL, and other support staff. Moving to West Roxbury would just increase their travel time, taking it away from the time they meet with students and support teachers.
West Roxbury has many high schools that can meet the needs of students, West Roxbury Academy, Urban Science Academy, Catholic Memorial, Roxbury Latin are all great schools that can meet any parents needs. So why does Roxbury Prep want to locate there in a space that is too small for 1,200 students?
Last year Roxbury Prep started to funnel up their high school students, who didn't make it into the exam schools, into the buildings they already have. In 2015-16 they started out with 175, 9th grade students, but only 109 of those students enrolled in 10th grade, It will be interesting to see how many students are actually left to take this years MCAS test and how many are enrolled in 11th grade next September. Roxbury Prep is a "Level 2" school, it is easy to eliminate the "achievement gap" when you have a selected group of students!
On Roxbury Prep's website, "Are you interested in attending Roxbury Prep beginning IMMEDIATELY? Roxbury Prep has a limited number of openings for the CURRENT school year." There appears not to be a "wait list" for Roxbury Prep because they are recruiting students who want to go Roxbury Prep this year. Given the loss of 66 high school seats, are they accepting students for other grades to make up for this financial loss? Remember charters don't have to backfill seats in the grades where the loss occurred. Will traditional BPS high schools have to brace themselves for the influx of Roxbury Prep 10th grade transfers, and their test scores, every year?
http://roxburyprep.uncommonschools.org/enroll
http://www.doe.mass.edu/boe/docs/fy2011/2011-02/it...
http://www.doe.mass.edu/boe/docs/fy2011/2011-02/it...
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