By adamg on Fri., 6/30/2017 - 9:53 am
CommonWealth Magazine reports that Massachusetts Secretary of State William Galvin has no intentions of handing over detailed data about the state's registered voters to a federal commission headed by Mike Pence and Galvin's counterpart in Kansas, who has a strong record of voter suppression.
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How is this any different
By anon
Fri, 06/30/2017 - 9:56am
How is this any different than any other information request to Bill Galvin? He always tells anyone, "Go screw!" even if the state records law says he should otherwise.
True ...
By adamg
Fri, 06/30/2017 - 10:09am
Stopped clock and all that?
Because he is prohibited from doing so
By Neal
Fri, 06/30/2017 - 10:40am
Shall not, as a legal term, means "must not".
But it won't be a public record
By anon
Fri, 06/30/2017 - 11:22am
It's going to another branch of our government, the federal. In general, federal supersedes state, county, and municipal. I'm sure 99% of 'progressives' at the tail end of the 2nd decade of the 21st century would agree.
The federal government can, of course, simply sue the state. The odds of them winning are extremely high. Or, federal law enforcement can launch a corruption investigation.
Why are some people so scared of investigations into voter fraud?
Bzzt. Wrong.
By Kaz
Fri, 06/30/2017 - 11:28am
1) The letter the government sent said they'd make the data public. So, it's not just going to "another branch of government".
2) Nobody is scared of investigating voter fraud. In fact, those investigations have already taken place in numerous locations across the country. Exceedingly small numbers of fraudulent votes were found and none of the investigations has ever turned up any impact on any modern elections.
3) If you're so concerned about fraud influencing the election, then maybe you should be pushing for further control over how armored our election system is to external tampering more.
In general federal law does not supersede state law
By Dave-from-Boston
Sat, 07/01/2017 - 6:19am
Try reading up a bit on the Supremacy Clause - might help you understand the issue better…
I am unfamiliar with any law that has been passed by Congress that requires states to provide detailed voting data…
Article VI, Section 2, of the U.S. Constitution provides that the "… Constitution, and the Laws of the United States … shall be the supreme Law of the Land." This Supremacy Clause has come to mean that the national government, in exercising any of the powers enumerated in the Constitution, must prevail over any conflicting or inconsistent state exercise of power. The federal preemption doctrine is a judicial response to the conflict between federal and state legislation. When it is clearly established that a federal law preempts a state law, the state law must be declared invalid.
Public Record
By BostonDog
Fri, 06/30/2017 - 10:09am
Aren't most of these records already publicly available? It's how the political parties know who to target with endless postcards around elections.
Of course, given this sham commission they'll likely claim all unenrolled MA voters are illegitimate. (And ignore the real story: The NSA documents showing Russia attempting to hack voting systems.)
Busloads sent to New Hampshire!
By anon
Fri, 06/30/2017 - 10:30am
Otherwise known as "commuters" who do the park and ride thing, but whatevs.
How laws are written
By dmk
Fri, 06/30/2017 - 10:48am
It all boils down to how laws are written. Galvin's hands may be tied, and that may be a good thing here.
While voter lists are available to some, they are not available to others, at least at the state level.
At the city/town level you may have better access. For example, I can walk in to City hall and look at the voter lists. They are available to look at in the Elections Dept. So the question is whether such a request is facilitated at the state level of government, or at the city/town level.
Even then there could be restrictions on who can get what as based on published statute.
Pondering matters here... how does such a commission determine fraud? Are they going to load all of these names into a computer someplace and run a comparison check to see if people are registered in 2 states? Locally the election systems already check for duplications by name, DOB, and SSA, and if that is found the name is flagged for checking by the local Elections Depts. A worker is then sent into the field to check the mail box and ask questions. If that is not resolved the name gets flagged and at voting time the election worker is required to stop the person and get proof of residency, otherwise the ballot is set aside until residency is confirmed. This is usually why it takes a couple fo weeks to certify vote counts.
In the 10-years i have been working as an Election Dept worker at a polling place I have only witnessed one "challenged" ballot, but have frequently required people to provide proof of residency, usually because they moved within the state. There are multiple levels of control to assure legal voter registrations, at least here in MA. It's a multi-redundant system of checks and balances.
We are required by law to attend a training class once a year to review the laws and procedures. Average class lasts about 2 hours and everyone is sent home with a "user manual" that is about 50-pages worth to take home to review and read to be prepared on voting day, because on voting day we have to be able to handle any possible situation. For the rare instances that need more help we all have cell phones connected to City Hall.
Voter fraud? Highly unlikely here. Not impossible, but highly unlikely.
So since Russia hacked voting
By CCD
Fri, 06/30/2017 - 10:50am
So since Russia hacked voting registration rolls wouldn't that be all the more reason to see if any fraud actually occurred? To verify Russia truly did not affect any votes?
Why are some people so opposed to this? Do people not care about voter integrity? Weren't Democrats/the left screaming after the election about Trumps "illegitimate" electoral win?
Calling this "voter suppression" is simply BS and an easy way to paint Republicans as racists bigots.
Meanwhile:
James Madison University student Andrew J. Spieles, 21, of Harrisonburg, pled guilty Monday in the United States District Court for the Western District of Virginia. As part of the plea agreement, Spieles agreed to a prison sentence of 100 to 120 days.
“In July 2016 Spieles’ job was to register as many voters as possible and reported to Democratic Campaign headquarters in Harrisonburg,†a U.S. Attorney’s Office spokesperson said. “In August 2016, Spieles was directed to combine his registration numbers with those of another individual because their respective territories overlapped. After filling out a registration form for a voter, Spieles entered the information into a computer system used by the Virginia Democratic Party to track information such as name, age, address and political affiliation. Every Thursday an employee/volunteer hand-delivered the paper copies of the registration forms to the Registrar’s Office in Harrisonburg.â€
If you believe that this is about fair elections ...
By anon
Fri, 06/30/2017 - 11:33am
... and not about OMG I WON THE POPULAR VOTE AND BLAH BLAH FRAUD BLAH ...
I have some nice waterfront property that might interest you ... maybe even a bridge!
LINK TO YOUR QUOTED MATERIAL
By anon
Fri, 06/30/2017 - 11:37am
How many times do we have to tell you LINK LINK LINK LINK LINK!
This is EASY TO DO: just copy the url and paste here.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/201...
Like this https://www.dailykos.com/story/2017/1/29/1625154/-...
Or do you really think that we believe you when you quote uncited articles? With your history of citing fake news sources like Daily Caller and the Moonie-owned Washington Times?
I hope you know, as a Republican
By anon
Fri, 06/30/2017 - 11:42am
Your personal information was available in an unsecured data base on an amazon cloud website FOR SEVERAL WEEKS.
Dude
By anon
Fri, 06/30/2017 - 12:02pm
Daily Caller is as bad a fake news site as Natural News.
Please cite your sources - and find better ones.
Daily Caller? Its anything
By CCD
Fri, 06/30/2017 - 2:12pm
Daily Caller? Its anything but...
http://wtvr.com/2017/06/26/andrew-spieles-guilty-p...
When it doubt attack the news source! And just curious, can you find an article or report by Daily Caller that was erroneous or "fake news?" If not just admit you're a naked partisan smug liberal?
Wow, look!
By perruptor
Fri, 06/30/2017 - 12:42pm
CCD found an actual case of voting fraud! Or did he? No, he didn't.
But let's go ahead and let some guys with a history of disenfranchising thousands of legitimate voter applicants loose on the entire country. This is curing a non-problem by making elections off-limits to potentially millions of citizens. And that's a REAL problem, unless you don't actually believe in Democracy ...
There was some voter fraud
By anon
Fri, 06/30/2017 - 12:58pm
Funny how it was all by Republicans voting twice ... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/201...
Doesn't even mention Bannon and others associated with Drumpf's campaign being registered in multiple jurisdictions: https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles...
From the article you linked:
By CCD
Fri, 06/30/2017 - 2:15pm
From the article you linked:
"Andrew J. Spieles of Harrisonburg admitted to filing the fraudulent registrations in August while working with Democratic-affiliated groups as a student at James Madison University ahead of the 2016 presidential election."
So he plead guilty of FRAUDulent registrations but not voter fraud was committed?
You are correct
By Scratchie
Fri, 06/30/2017 - 3:30pm
Voter registration fraud is not the same as vote fraud.
Read the next sentence of the article, please
By Ron Newman
Fri, 06/30/2017 - 10:50am
"The statute does provide for the secretary of state, who is the state’s chief election official, to make the file available to political parties, statewide candidates or ballot question campaigns."
Even with that, I doubt that the information that is sent to campaigns includes things like felony convictions and Social Security numbers.
I don't think many people
By anon
Fri, 06/30/2017 - 6:00pm
I don't think many people living in the bubble of Massachusetts appreciate just how horribly backwards Mass voting laws are, compared to the rest of the country.
- For an example of real voter transparency, visit https://vt.ncsbe.gov/RegLkup/VoterInfo/ North Carolina's voting website, and lookup John Edwards (remember him?) of Orange County. You can get his complete voter history going back 20 years.
- Massachusetts got early voting last year. Yawn. Most of the country has had early voting for a long time.
- Try to get an absentee ballot in MA and your city/town Elections people will grill you about whether you will actually be out of town on election day. Most states, you get an absentee ballot, no questions asked.
- Only in MA (as far as I know) does the police detail scam extend into the polling place, slowing down the entire process, effectively denying the right to vote to people too busy to wait in line while the cop flips through the book one person at a time.
Wake up, Massachusetts. Your voting laws suck, and taking pride in keeping voting history secret, just because Trump, is not being on the right side of the issue.
Where does the cop do polling
By anon
Sun, 07/02/2017 - 10:28pm
Where does the cop do polling checkins?
In Cambridge, there's a cop in the polling place, but he doesn't do anything.
In Boston ...
By adamg
Sun, 07/02/2017 - 11:57pm
The cop sits next to the ballot box and checks off your name before you put your ballot in the box.
Contrary to the previous commenter, though, I've never noticed this to be a time-sucking procedure - maybe we get a better breed of cop at Roslindale polling stations. The one time I've ever noticed everything grind to a halt was a couple years ago, when I thought I'd put my ballot in the box, but the counter didn't increment by one and he had the entire precinct basically frozen until they could figure out where my ballot had gone (it had, in fact, gone into the box), which is what you'd want him or her to do.
Same thing is done elsewhere ...
By perruptor
Mon, 07/03/2017 - 8:54am
just not by cops. In my experience, it's a couple of old folks. They ask your address, then look it up, usually on the wrong page of their book, so you have to repeat your address. Then they look irritated, like it's your fault, and find the address. Then you have to tell them your name. If you also point to it in the book, you get that look again. I can't imagine that a cop would be slower at it than them.
Just remember how localized
By anon
Mon, 07/03/2017 - 12:16pm
Just remember how localized everything is in Massachusetts. I've never had a problem with either in person or absentee voting. However, I wouldn't be surprised if a busybody volunteer or town clerk caused headaches.
Where does it use the words
By anon
Fri, 06/30/2017 - 10:23am
Where does it use the words "go screw"?
It's implied.
By adamg
Fri, 06/30/2017 - 10:36am
It's implied.
Implied, or implode?https://m
By Homer Simpson
Fri, 06/30/2017 - 10:38am
Implied, or implode?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zu-3AuXrFsY
Voting
By Bugs Bunny
Fri, 06/30/2017 - 10:43am
I don't understand voter suppression. You're a US Citizen. You bring your IDs to Town/City Hall to register to vote. You live in a particular district, you know where to vote & the days of the election. Just bring your IDs and you can vote.
In Massachusetts, yes
By adamg
Fri, 06/30/2017 - 10:54am
Here's an example of voter suppression: You require people to show a state ID to vote, then close all the DMV offices in the counties heavily populated by the group you don't want to vote, making it difficult or impossible for members of that group who don't have licenses to get an ID.
Say hi to the folks at home, Alabama (which eventually, sort of, re-opened those offices).
Vote
By Bugs Bunny
Fri, 06/30/2017 - 11:48am
Interesting, you figure all these people would get their IDs soon after moving to the area and not a few days before the election.
It must be nice ...
By adamg
Fri, 06/30/2017 - 12:39pm
To have such a calm life where nothing might get in the way of registering to vote as soon as you move.
Also newly-adult
By XenaKat
Sat, 07/01/2017 - 6:17pm
Also think of the newly-turned-18-year-olds, who want to vote, want to get a state ID to vote, but all the DMV and state offices that issue said IDs have been closed for 100 miles or more around.
And neither they, nor their parents have a car.
And it's a rural area, so they just can't hop on a bus or train.
Getting an ID takes time and
By Kinopio
Fri, 06/30/2017 - 11:42am
Getting an ID takes time and money. There is no need for it. Trump is a serial liar. He said there were 5 million illegal votes and he couldn't even provide proof of one single illegal vote. I still can't wrap my head around the fact that some states(the poor uneducated ones) voted for him.
If it costs money
By perruptor
Fri, 06/30/2017 - 12:51pm
If it costs money, it's unconstitutional, because it amounts to a poll tax. These taxes have a long, ugly history of disenfranchising minority voters. It's just a coincidence that it's Republicans who are pushing these measures, because they aren't racists, oh, no.
Gasp! Being a responsible
By CCD
Fri, 06/30/2017 - 2:25pm
Gasp! Being a responsible citizen takes time and effort! The horrors of a civilized society!
I just love how for MONTHS we've been hearing about "Russian hacking our election yada yada yada" yet when it comes time to possibly improving voter integrity it becomes "suppression."
Gasp!
By whyaduck
Fri, 06/30/2017 - 2:51pm
Yes, because voter suppression is just that "suppression" and the alleged hacking is a totally other apple and/or orange.
In regards to being a responsible citizen, you should take some time and effort and catch up on voter suppression in the U.S.A.
https://www.aclu.org/issues/voting-rights/fighting...
In MA you need something with your address on it
By anon
Fri, 06/30/2017 - 3:13pm
But the RMV in Wilmington refuses to accept an actual letter from the state sent to you at your address.
Go. fucking. figure.
The answers are out there...
By whyaduck
Fri, 06/30/2017 - 2:48pm
https://www.aclu.org/issues/voting-rights/fighting...
Voter Records Already Leaked
By Grant Young
Fri, 06/30/2017 - 10:48am
Those Republican consultants already leaked them. Don't know why they need the states to give them the records.
http://money.cnn.com/2017/06/19/technology/voter-d...
So let's parse this a little bit
By anon
Fri, 06/30/2017 - 10:53am
My understanding, and feel free to correct!
In the mean time, while I'm glad that Secretary Galvin is not interested in helping the Republicans suppress legitimate voters, it sure would be nice if Democrats in Massachusetts would do more to enable folks to register and exercise their franchise. For example, same day registration would help, as would no excuses absentee ballots.
A voter's choice to not participate in an election
By roadman
Fri, 06/30/2017 - 5:55pm
(voter history) should not even considered to be part of the public record. Neither should be the choice of party ballot a voter is FORCED to accept to participate in a primary election.be part of the public record.
Voting is a RIGHT, not a mandate. Whether or not to cast a ballot, and whose party ballot is chosen, is NONE OF ANYBODY'S BUSINESS but the individual voter making those decisions.
Legislature can force you to vote
By O-FISH-L
Sat, 07/01/2017 - 12:35pm
Article LXI.
The general court shall have authority to provide for compulsory voting at elections, but the right of secret voting shall be preserved.
i don't know if it's public
By anon
Fri, 06/30/2017 - 11:03am
i don't know if it's public in MA, it may or may not be which I'm barely ok with, but I'm definitely not ok with it being public nationwide. no one needs my name, my address and which party I vote for on a regular basis. that's my choice and my vote and no one else's business.
If Republicans like this idea
By Michael
Fri, 06/30/2017 - 11:17am
They should do a national gun owner database too
nah
By cybah
Fri, 06/30/2017 - 11:43am
In this case, what is good for the goose, ISN'T good for the gander..
Its so gross that some states
By Kinopio
Fri, 06/30/2017 - 11:44am
Its so gross that some states allow gun licenses for voting purposes but not state college IDs. Any crazy hick can get a gun license(unfortunately). Getting into college actually takes effort, time and money.
Clearly you've never applied
By anon
Fri, 06/30/2017 - 12:52pm
Clearly you've never applied for college in MA vs. applying for a gun license in MA.
Just try it in Brookline and let me know how that works for you if your net income is less than 100k or you are a minority.
In Brookline...
By anon
Fri, 06/30/2017 - 1:33pm
the challenges in getting a firearm extend well into all income brackets and skin tones.
The Constitution does not
By anon
Sat, 07/01/2017 - 10:25am
The Constitution does not guarantee your right to vote. There are guidelines saying who can vote, and amendments guaranteeing that you cannot be denied the right to vote based on sex, race, age. But the protection is not nearly as strong as your right to bear arms.
In an ideal world, the government would not be allowed to deny the right to vote to anybody (including prisoners on death row). But even then you would still need some sort of ID system.
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