Citing the First Amendment, Mayor Walsh is refusing to let Hal Shurtleff, who runs a New Hampshire camp to teach kids his version of the Constitution, fly a Christian flag from one of the three flagpoles in front of City Hall, the Herald reports.
Shurtleff, whose name is familiar to devotees of the bulletin board at the West Roxbury Roche Bros., and who spent some 26 years as a New England coordinator for the John Birch Society, says this is outrageous. His Florida-based lawyers are demanding Walsh change course by Sept. 27 or suffer the consequences for not letting him fly a white flag with a red cross on a blue field in the corner and hold a ceremony on City Hall Plaza about our "Judeo-Christian moral heritage."
He might have to stand in line with the local Satanists, who periodically demand they be allowed to give a convocation at the start of a City Council meeting.
Shurtleff was a New England coordinator for the John Birch Society until 2016. He claims he was forced out when the society, which believed Eisenhower was a Communist infiltrator and which believes the UN wants to take over local government in the US, gave him a choice between continuing his work with them or with his Camp Constitution.
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Comments
I Miss Med State
By BlackKat
Sat, 09/16/2017 - 3:32pm
Sure it was all kinds of one flew over the cuckoo's nest but it kept people like this away from the general public.
Incidentally don't try to look up Camp Constitution on the web as their site is seriously hijacked or infected. But you can rest assured if it has any active enrollment those children will need a lot of counseling to rejoin society.
website
By Irma la Douce
Sat, 09/16/2017 - 3:48pm
I've had no trouble accessing the website:campconstitution.net
the right is mining christian religious liberty in the courts
By Anonymous
Sat, 09/16/2017 - 4:50pm
MAFamilyCouncil, through the courts, got churches exemption from the "bathroom bill" public accommodation clauses.
You've seen the arguments about whether pizza places and bakeries have to serve teh gays. That's also a religious freedom argument.
Boston's favorite Bircher is trying to establish a legal president and he may have picked a good target, Marty Walsh. I hope the mayor is positioning himself for the legal battle rather than defense of his refusal to the request. He would do that by discussing the issue with experts on the first amendment like the ACLU rather than just corporation counsel.
Koch brothers' father founded the John Birch Society and it's seeing a resurgence now in the Trump era. I think the HQ was in Belmont.
What conservatives understand is that people do care about their culture and how it is changing. That is why they pick issues like this one and stoke islamophobia. For example, a large of number of southern state legislatures passed or tried to pass resolutions in opposition sharia.
SPLC:
Ah John Birch
By KSquared
Mon, 09/18/2017 - 10:22am
14 year old me took a four-question survey from a John Birch table at a local fair, and the results of that survey labeled me a communist. I got such dirty looks from the people manning the table.
Greatest compliment of my life.
Fun fact
By Irma la Douce
Sat, 09/16/2017 - 3:56pm
His legal representation is the Liberty Counsel, which famously defended Kim Davis, the Kentucky clerk jailed for refusing to issue marriage licences to same sex couples.
yup, he's the front guy, a person with standing to sue.
By Anonymous
Sat, 09/16/2017 - 4:03pm
.
The state house had a similar issue last Christmas.
By anon
Sat, 09/16/2017 - 4:07pm
Creche in the Great Hall. Forced to cave?
https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2016/12/22/...
Here's a post from the law talking guys behind it.
https://www.thomasmoresociety.org/after-a-rebuff-a...
As Fringy as Kelly Leak's Jacket
By John Costello
Sat, 09/16/2017 - 4:08pm
Anytime I hear someone needs to promote their Judeo Christian heritage I like to remind them that we are under serious threat in the US of falling under UN control with Sharia law soon after. Their squirming is a thing of beauty.
Hold fast Marty and tell these kooks to beat it.
Well
By anon
Sat, 09/16/2017 - 4:44pm
Marty did fly the Trans Flag!
So?
By adamg
Sat, 09/16/2017 - 6:28pm
That's not a religion. You might want to read the First Amendment. It's really not very long.
There were no trans people before they started adding
By bulgingbuick
Sat, 09/16/2017 - 6:50pm
fluoride to our water....
thus sapping and impurifying our precious bodily fluids!
By BikerGeek
Sat, 09/16/2017 - 7:27pm
n/t
Purity of Essence.
By Lee
Sat, 09/16/2017 - 7:58pm
.
Mandrake! Are you
By bulgingbuick
Sat, 09/16/2017 - 10:20pm
listening?
Cobalt Thorium G
By OriginalPatPayaso
Sun, 09/17/2017 - 10:00am
There is no fighting in the war Room!
have you never wondered why I drink only distilled water, or rain water, and only pure-grain alcohol?
Hal Shurtleff is a ..
By Lee
Sun, 09/17/2017 - 10:50am
.. deviated prevert. He's gonna have to answer to the Coca Cola company!
Too many fifedoms
By anon
Sat, 09/16/2017 - 6:58pm
You are correct Adam, and I myself am a firm believer in the Constitution and separation of church and state, though being quite religious myself. But I think Anon makes an unintentional point. There are far to many random flags being flown at City Hall at various times. The LGBT flag (and I speak as an LGBT man), the Puerto Rican Flag, Trans flag, Polish flag, this flag, that flag. It makes it seem like everybody is in their own little fiefdom rather than one people united under the American Flag.
Fiefdoms or celebrations?
By adamg
Sun, 09/17/2017 - 9:39am
For the most part, the third flagpole on City Hall aza is used to celebrate who we are and where we come from - or to honor guests from different countries. They're a reminder, as they fly up there with the American and state flag that E pluribus unum, that we can remember where we come from while still being American.
The trans flag that flew before the legislature voted for trans rights had a more political message, I'll grant you. But in a city where the City Council had voted unanimously for a similar measure, and with a mayor who was a strong supporter, why not? And even there, it was a reminder that we are our brother's keeper, that we stick together as a community and support all among us. And that's a place I'd want to live in.
There seems to be nexus between a certain mayoral campaign
By bulgingbuick
Sat, 09/16/2017 - 4:48pm
and the flag proponent. Interesting. Someone should ask the candidates if they support Johnny Birch and his flag. Perhaps he is a useful political tool?
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_coverage/20...
nothing burger
By Anonymous
Sat, 09/16/2017 - 4:57pm
BostonHerald
Someone want to dig up the
By anon
Sun, 09/17/2017 - 8:12am
Someone want to dig up the city policy?
establish favor for religion
By Anonymous
Mon, 09/18/2017 - 3:36am
I'd endorse flying religious flags in such a way as not to establish favor for one religion over another. Perhaps we could simultaneously fly the coexist flag, christian flag, Israeli flag, al bayrak (white star and crescent on red field), hindu flag, budda flag, and satanist flag.
Do this man fly that flag on his property in NH? Either way, good for him.
Last time he made the papers he was looking to get expemptions on residential property from EPA regulation. Time before that he was praising a Democratic state rep. gun safety policy.
Not following.
By anon
Sat, 09/16/2017 - 6:58pm
Which mayoral campaign? What's the link?
"Reverend" Bruce Wall's
By bulgingbuick
Sun, 09/17/2017 - 1:37pm
candidate.
Man, you've gotta be a
By ZachAndTired
Sat, 09/16/2017 - 6:15pm
Man, you've gotta be a serious wingnut to be too crazy for the John Birch Society. This guy can piss up a rope.
Request form
By anon
Sat, 09/16/2017 - 7:09pm
Here is the city's request form.
https://www.cityofboston.gov/propertymanagement/ev...
Not a lawyer, but seeing all these things grouped together would make it more complicated? If the city has allowed non-secular use of any of these sites, does that ruin the argument that the flag pole can only be used for secular flags?
Simple solution
By anon
Sat, 09/16/2017 - 7:21pm
Cease flying random flags in City Hall Plaza. Stop doing convocations before City Council meetings.
If this guy gets to fly his flag
By BikerGeek
Sat, 09/16/2017 - 8:14pm
I want to see the Pastafarians fly theirs.
Do the Satanists have dibbs?
By SwirlyGrrl
Sat, 09/16/2017 - 11:59pm
They've been pretty responsive to these sorts of things of late.
Little known fact....
By PeterGriffith5
Sun, 09/17/2017 - 12:21am
Little known fact....
Campers at Camp Constitution all enjoy using locally sourced, artisan made outhouses constructed of native New Hampshire birch trees. After their first visit, they automatically become members of 'the Birch John society"
I have never used a birch john, but imagine that it must be a lovely experience.
The issue places Walsh in the corner where he belongs
By O-FISH-L
Sun, 09/17/2017 - 3:21am
Mayor Walsh's willingness to promote the transgender flag and all things liberal while denying the Christian flag (who would have noticed?) really says it all. Perhaps we can have a flag for all of the murdered "ho's" referenced in the lyrics of Bel Biv Devoe, the Mayor's choice for City Hall family entertainment.
Has any journalist interviewed Cardinal O'Malley on this issue or is "Irish Catholic" Walsh allowed a free pass? The Catholic church once had influence in Christian issues in this city. May the Knights of Columbus fly their flag at City Hall? K of C is a Catholic group that does tremendous charitable work in Boston but differs with Walsh and his liberal pals on the sanctity of life. Speak up, Cardinal, your flock is waiting.
This non-issue becoming public is a good thing since it places Walsh further into the extreme-left corner where he belongs. A "no-factor" for any higher office, thank God (pun intended.) Maybe the illegals in Walsh's sanctuary at City Hall or the Teamsters accused of intimidating the female Indian chef (their acquittal was a "relief" according to Marty) can fly their flag.
There was a time I questioned
By riggs not logged in
Sun, 09/17/2017 - 2:46am
There was a time I questioned Adam's sanity at not blocking/deleting your posting privileges.
These days, in the era of the Orange Embarassment, I actually applaud Adam's testicular fortitude at letting you continue to vomit vile absurdities and hostility toward others unlike yourself.
Your utter, hysterical, pointless, baseless, ______-phobic ridiculousness makes me giggle. (I suspect we all need the occasional giggle if we're gonna survive until the next president takes office.)
So, thanks for the laughs. And, may God have mercy on your soul.
Yes, in the corner
By Sock_Puppet
Sun, 09/17/2017 - 6:35am
With the Constitution. That is exactly where he belongs.
The Cardinal looks and sees that you are his flock.
By bulgingbuick
Sun, 09/17/2017 - 9:11am
Good luck with that Cardinal O'Malley.
Never to disappoint
By Dave-from-Boston
Sun, 09/17/2017 - 10:00am
Fish remains the UHub wanker. Every site needs a token bigot and unrepentant liar.
Um, Uncle Bigot?
By SwirlyGrrl
Sun, 09/17/2017 - 2:18pm
Little Jonny's still asking you to pass the stuffing. Been like five minutes ...
First Amendment, pure and simple
By anon
Sun, 09/17/2017 - 12:55pm
"Mayor Walsh's willingness to promote the transgender flag and all things liberal while denying the Christian flag (who would have noticed?) really says it all. "
This has nothing to do with Marty Walsh when you get right down to it. You show a distinct lack of knowledge of the principals this country is founded on. THIS is why a Christian flag, or any other religious flag will not be flown at City Hall:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
Furthermore, in a January 1, 1802 letter by Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist Association in Connecticut, Jefferson wrote:
"I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church and State."
Get that? A WALL OF SEPARATION BETWEEN CHURCH AND STATE.
Why do we swear on the Bible
By Metoo
Sun, 09/17/2017 - 10:35pm
Why do we swear on the Bible in court???
Well, we don't
By adamg
Mon, 09/18/2017 - 12:10am
I've never seen a Bible produced in Massachusetts courts (caveat: it's not like I've spent a ton of time in court, but I have seen people sworn in there). But, in any case, people who object to telling the truth so help them God can instead affirm they are telling the truth.
Why do we have Christian
By Metoo
Mon, 09/18/2017 - 10:35am
Why do we have Christian holidays off?
Oh, for Christ's sake
By adamg
Mon, 09/18/2017 - 11:21am
If nothing else, because few people would be at work on Christmas.
And, yes, I know your next question is going to be "Why do we have 'In God We Trust' on our money?"
My point was made. We don't
By Metoo
Mon, 09/18/2017 - 2:14pm
My point was made. We don't separate when it's convenient.
Because...
By lbb
Mon, 09/18/2017 - 11:24am
...we live in a Christian supremacist country. Happy now?
Did you know?
By anon
Mon, 09/18/2017 - 12:32pm
Keith Ellison, a practicing Muslim, was sworn into Congress on Thomas Jefferson's Koran!
You know that when the
By anon
Sun, 09/17/2017 - 11:29pm
You know that when the constitution and the bill of rights were signed, many of the states, including Massachusetts, had established churches, right? That amendment binds congress, not the states.
You know it's not 1791, right?
By adamg
Mon, 09/18/2017 - 12:03am
And that the US Constitution, including its amendments, has been held to apply to states and cities, too? Don't believe me? Take it up with the Supreme Court (why, there's even a 1982 decision throwing out, on First Amendment grounds, a Massachusetts law that let churches veto nearby liquor stores).
In any case, Massachusetts ditched the idea of an established church in the 1830s, so your argument is moot.
"so your argument is moot"
By Steeve
Mon, 09/18/2017 - 9:58am
"so your argument is moot"
For what it's worth, in legal terms this doesn't mean "irrelevant".
[quote]Moot refers to an issue that remains unsettled, open to argument or debatable. It is especially refers to a legal question which has not been determined by any decision of any court[/quote]
Well, OK
By adamg
Mon, 09/18/2017 - 11:27am
The question of whether the First Amendment applies to non-federal government bodies was settled long ago, so my apologies if I got the definition of "moot" wrong.
Do you?
By anon
Mon, 09/18/2017 - 12:39pm
Do you?
The first amendment didn't do any of that by itself. The fourteenth amendment had to be ratified first.
Jeffersons private letter is always held up as some demonstration that all the founding fathers understood the first amendment to apply to states -- the founding generation's practice of writing established churches into state constitutions indicates they believed the 1st and 10th amendments actually meant exactly what they said.
How the actual fuck
By eekanotloggedin
Sun, 09/17/2017 - 1:43pm
is the transgender flag "something liberal?"
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