WCVB reports the death of Bernard Law in Rome at 86.
As a cardinal, Law was the head of the Archdiocese of Boston until he resigned in 2002 after the Boston Phoenix and the Boston Globe exposed both child molestation by Archdiocese priests and efforts by church leaders, including Law, to cover the cases up. Several victims had named him in lawsuits. Law then moved to Rome, where he was given a Vatican sinecure. He never returned to Boston.
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Comments
"the traditional funeral rites in St Peter's Basilica"
By mg
Tue, 12/19/2017 - 10:49pm
Aren't they afraid the mouth of hell might open in the basilica to welcome him?
We'll all be there soon enough
By EM Painter
Tue, 12/19/2017 - 11:11pm
.
Best headline yet
By anon
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 4:00am
Cardinal who fled Boston at height of child-molestation scandal dies in Rome
Maybe
By perruptor
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 6:18am
But not for the same reasons, at least in my case. I don't know about you.
Presumably he confessed his
By anon
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 7:15am
Presumably he confessed his sins before he died. That means he goes to Heaven.
Thems the rules.
I'm going the W.C. Fields route
By tachometer
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 7:58am
Supposedly when W.C. Fields was on his deathbed a friend came to visit and was surprised to find him reading the bible. He said to the star, "Are you looking for some last minute salvation?" Fields looked up and replied, "Nah, just looking for loopholes."
It's not just confessing your sins
By roadman
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 8:28am
You have to repent for them as well. Even then, I don't think that gives you an automatic "Get into heaven free" card.
So...
By Friartuck
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 5:31pm
Can we get a script for all of this? Seems complicated
Heaven and hell are nothing
By Kinopio
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 9:20am
Heaven and hell are nothing but silly fairy tales. Thats why good people need to be appreciated while they are alive and slimebags like Law need to be punished on earth.
That would be nice.
By Dan Farnkoff
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 12:05pm
But in a world where most often might makes right, and money can buy a way out of anything, and injustice is always thriving, such human accountability on earth is unlikely to ever be more than an occasional anomaly.
No Punishment
By Joe Rozzie
Thu, 12/21/2017 - 9:04am
for him in MA. The attorney general that refused to prosecute him ended up as House Council for the Archdiocese of Boston. And the beat goes on....
ummm....?
By Rob
Fri, 12/22/2017 - 4:01pm
ummm....?
Tom Reilly?
What's your basis for that claim?
I can't say for certain it's incorrect, but I did some searching online and found nothing that ties him to the Archdiocese other than many items about his investigations/actions as AG.
It certainly seems unlikely, when there are all sorts of professional/legal/ethics hurdles about former state employees (and sometimes their business partners) going into private sector business with companies they've been involved with in state duties.
Good. He was an awful person
By Kinopio
Tue, 12/19/2017 - 10:55pm
Good. He was an awful person and the Catholic Church is a disgusting child rape cult who gave this scum a cushy life in Rome. I'm very glad religion is going the way of the Dodo bird.
Cut the crap
By Stevil
Tue, 12/19/2017 - 11:36pm
Insult the man or men all you want.
Potshots at an entire faith - any faith - are not in any way acceptable. The Church is not a cult.
Organization, not faith
By Riptor
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 12:22am
Kinopio said nothing about the faith - that is, the tenets - of the religion. But from an organizational standpoint it's undeniable the Church as a group of people facilitated rape upon rape upon rape. Misconstruing that truth as an attack on a set of beliefs is your mistake, and is partially what enabled it to go on so long
The Church
By Stevil
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 9:31am
The Church is not the hierarchy or a building. It is the faithful and the faith. And reading all of K's post, pretty clear her opinion on all religions.
Bullshit
By anon
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 9:28am
Five yard penalty for moving the goalposts. First down Kinopio.
Bullshit back
By Stevil
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 9:53am
"The Catholic Church is a child rape cult" and religions going the way of the Dodo bird.
The "Church" deliberately capitalized is not the hierarchy. You learn that in elementary school.
And the comment about religions and dodo birds nails it shut.
I'm a nonpracticing Catholic that was almost as close to this as you can be without directly being a victim. These men are evil horrible people. Many sinned and some made horrendous decisions that devastated the lives of kids I went to school with.
That doesn't excuse ANYONE from calling the Church a rape cult (although I'll readily admit many more priests and perhaps even some popes should have been in jail).
It's a large company
By anon
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 10:18am
The Vatican is like any other large company.
This i agree with
By Stevil
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 11:05am
There is nothing in Catholicism that remotely excuses what these perverse men did and their leaders allowed. This was a problem stemming from many causes (celibate priesthood, a strict closed hierarchy, poor "circle the wagons" management, mentality and more) - but NOTHING about Catholicism permits, endorses or allows what they did. This was the act of bad and misguided men (and again, yes, it was men). Do not blame this on the capital C "Church". This was 100% a human failing of the human part of the small c "church". And like it or not - the Church is technically a corporation as are all religious institutions.
Is this correct?
By AndyF
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 1:28pm
"There is nothing in Catholicism that remotely excuses what these perverse men did and their leaders allowed."
Not trying to be snarky, but it is my understanding that priests act in persona Christi. Would this not excuse their behavior, or at the very least empower them to get away with such behavior?
Absolutely not
By Stevil
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 4:28pm
Period.
Looks like K is drawing directly from the classic
By roadman
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 11:15am
atheist playbook by openly disparaging other people's belief structures ("fairy stories") and by maligning the members of an entire organized faith for actions most of them had no control over ("rape cult").
It's actually kind of sad if you ask me.
I think it's pretty clear
By Bob Leponge
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 1:58pm
That people's anger is directed at the organization / the institution / the hierarchy, not at the faithful or the faith. What word other than "the Church" would you use to describe it?
People yes
By Stevil
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 2:56pm
Kinopio no.
The priesthood, the Church hierarchy, holy pedophiles - lots of things. It's not the Church - and clear that Kinopio's comments go well beyond the bad apples (most priests I know are flawed like the rest of us - but decent good men).
Yes, it is
By perruptor
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 3:32pm
It is the church. From previous popes, down through cardinals and bishops, the entire organization has been knowingly enabling child abuse for decades. The "faith" part is irrelevant in light of that criminality. The church has sacrificed children in defense of its reputation.
Not from around here but....
By luke warm
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 9:29am
If the movie Spotlight is accurate then yes, the Catholic Church in BOSTON was a child rape cult, and depending on who still remains from those years in the organization, maybe still is.
The Offending Priests
By AndyF
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 1:30pm
As their offenses became known, the offending priests were shuffled all over the country. It wasn't just in Boston.
Also
By AndyF
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 1:37pm
Some of the priests were brought into the Boston neighborhoods after having committed atrocities in other states.
The Catholic Church, as an institution, is fair game
By anon
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 2:10am
It has been shown that they criminally conspired to protect predators for decades. No reason to believe they did any better for the centuries preceding what has been reported.
I agree they're not a cult by the strictest definition. They've certainly acted as a criminal enterprise though.
Full disclosure: Raised Catholic to the point of being an altar boy. I've seen the good they've done and the comfort they provide to the faithful.
Law and his ilk deserve to be called out for their behavior, not their faith (or lack of it.)
Law's fake villa near BC
By anon
Fri, 12/22/2017 - 3:05pm
Should become a memorial to the victims of the church
Opinions vary
By perruptor
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 6:31am
What's a cult? According to Christianity Today:
The RCC definitely meets 1) and 3). 2) is debatable.
Outside of the Church there is no salvation
By anon
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 8:02am
True.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_P29.HTM
Reminds Me Of When I Was An Electrolux Vacuum Cleaner Salesman
By Elmer
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 3:54pm
I once was inspired to join a team of Electrolux salesmen. Both my mother and grandmother were Electrolux owners, so I was taught all about them at a very early age. Of course, as I grew up, I experimented with Hoovers and other brands (even a Dirt Devil), but my faith in Electrolux vacuums was never shaken.
So, in 1983, when I was looking for an extra part-time job, the advertisement for "small appliance salesman" at my local Electrolux store, sounded like fun. When I found out it meant lugging vacuum cleaners door-to-door and ringing strangers' doorbells, it sounded like less fun, but I believed in Electrolux, so I believed I could do it!
[sub] ... unfortunately, this was in Ft. Lauderdale — in August[/sub]
[sup]people weren't opening their doors to strangers, let alone buying vacuum cleaners[/sup]
Before sending us out to canvass selected neighborhoods, the elder salesmen would first extoll upon the grandeur of Electrolux products, but then go on to preach gospels of cold calling and give sermons about hard selling. If selling door-to-door in the Florida heat wasn't hard enough, I just couldn't reconcile my faith; derived from my own, personal relationship with Electrolux vacuums; with the dogma spewing forth from the hierarchy, which was often cruel and hurtful to the people they purported to serve.
The one thing that stands out, is their insistence of only one, true, Genuine Electrolux filter bag. It was something (at the time) which could only be obtained by going in person to a local Electrolux store, or by an Electrolux salesman delivering salvation for your vacuum directly to your home.
We were instructed to always praise the Electrolux filter bag when speaking with customers, along with a stern warning — if you do not use a Genuine Electrolux filter bag, the motor on your vacuum cleaner will surely go to hell.
Reminds me of the time - about 1968 -
By roadman
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 4:00pm
when an Electrolux salesman showed up at our door. My mother played along with the guy, and had him go through those rooms in the house that had carpets with the vacuum. She then took the salesman's business card and noted "We'll get back to you."
Never saw the guy again, and we never bought an Electrolux.
Oh Yes — They Made Us Shampoo Carpets For Free Too!
By Elmer
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 6:14pm
The Electrolux Model B8 was a miraculous machine for scrubbing and polishing floors. The B8 scrubbed carpets well too, but left all the soapy dirt behind on the carpet.
The potential customers were not impressed. Nobody bought them — except for me. I loved my Model B8 for taking care of my own terrazzo floors!
[img]https://elmercatdotorg.files.wordpress.com/2017/12/b8.jpg[/img]
[sup] ( house cleaning heaven? — trust me, it's not that much fun! )[/sup]
Dylan
By anon
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 8:01pm
"And there are no truths outside the gates of Eden."
-Bob Dylan 1965
nope. the faith earned this
By kernelPanic
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 9:00am
The catholic church is the largest and most successful pedophile protection ring in recorded human history.
The evidence is irrefutable. Decade after decade and country after country the pattern has repeated itself. It's not a one-off problem or a few bad apples. It is the entire organization operating worldwide that is complicit.
You are a child molestation
By Kinopio
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 9:28am
You are a child molestation enabler. You attack me yet say nothing about the thousands of kids who were raped or the priests, cardinals etc who are responsible. This will happen again because of attitudes like yours. People like you who defend a group that rapes kids are guilty by association.
No organization in the history of the world has caused as much pain as the catholic church. War, rape, slavery. You name it they have done it to the highest degree.
No it won't happen again
By Stevil
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 12:10pm
Because people like me spoke up and will again - more forcefully than ever.
This was going on LITERALLY right under my nose in high school and I never suspected a thing - or heard even a whisper of it until decades later. I spoke up once I heard - and told the school they'd never see another penny from me. I have changed my mind because of some changes that were put in place and ultimately a request from a classmate that put his own kid in the school which gave me a belief that changes were made to prevent future problems, at least to the extent you can fix these things.
I don't practice - but my school does wonderful work even though a handful of scum almost brought the whole thing down. They have worked hard to eliminate the problem and if it does somehow happen again, I'm sure they will address the issue very differently.
You attack the faith of a billion plus people and call them "child molestation enablers".
War, rape, slavery- those are sins of the powerful in every religion (ever read the Bible?) or are you not paying attention to what's been happening in Africa the past quarter century and longer? These are not the sins of the religion. Nor the sins of the vast majority of the practitioners or leaders. They are the sins of the 1%, often those in positions of power that use religion as an excuse for horrific behavior. The problem is not the religion - the problem is people and people like you don't help by accusing the rest of guilt by association.
it is still happening
By Bobp
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 12:57pm
There were 2 archdiocese's where they hid and moved suspected priests in 2016 and 2017.
They have learned nothing.
I have changed my mind
By erik g
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 2:44pm
Writing that sentence should have been the cue you needed to think "maybe I should recuse myself from this discussion" before clicking "Save," but I see you have chosen not to. So, if I have this straight: your principled stand against the largest institutional perpetrator of child rape in the last century was to stop giving money to your school, which you somehow managed to attend at the height of the abuse without so much as an inkling that something was wrong. You reneged on this principled stand, not because they made any demonstrable progress toward building processes for rooting out child rapists in their own midst, but because of a request from another classmate (who presumably never stopped giving money to the rapists). Now that you have resumed giving money to the organization whose figurehead elected to shelter one of the masterminds behind a nationwide coverup of institutional child rape, you are confident that this massive problem, which has plagued pretty much every organization that puts men in positions of unchecked power since the dawn of civilization, will no longer occur, despite numerous counterexamples WITHIN THE CHURCH in the last five years,. And you moreover qualify this totally unfounded hope with "at least to the extent you can fix things," with the clear implication that we just have to expect a certain base level of institutional coverup of systemic child rape because Catholics gonna Catholic ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You pretty clearly do not give the faintest damn about child abuse, so long as it's perpetrated by someone wearing clergy robes. Which... OK, dude, you do you, but don't you dare act like you're making a principled stand on that in a public forum like this and expect it to go unremarked on.
You must be a master of yoga
By Stevil
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 2:58pm
Never seen even a gymnast stretch like that.
Not a stretch
By perruptor
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 3:36pm
You've been apologizing for and excusing the RCC with every comment you've made in this thread.
organizations causing pain
By anon_anon
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 7:39pm
I think I might have gone with the Soviets under Stalin or National Socialist German Workers Party, or the Japanese Army during WWII or more recently the militias embracing War, and War rape in Afghanistan, Chechnya, Columbia, Iraq, Sudan and Nepal
(Smith-Spark, Laura (8 December 2004) BBC news. Retrieved Dec. 20, 2017)
If we wish to avoid including government institutions; then how about the Medellin Drug cartel and their ilk?
For an interesting read see this website ( http://necrometrics.com/gunsorxp.htm)
where the author (Matthew White) analyzes the question "Which has killed more people, gun control or Christianity?"
Apparently, 56 million deaths have been attributed to each cause. Matthew White easily smashes the gun control opponents tally, but the 56 million attributed to Christianity is parsed in an interesting way.
Defending Christianity in this fashion is not possible. Using the "but, they did it too!" argument does not wash. I am mainly arguing against Kinopio's statement. I would add that Christianity has done some good also.
It isn't a cult, huh?
By Brian Riccio
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 9:34am
Keep throwing those coins into the collection plate. The victims and the lawyers appreciate your faith in God.
Every once in a while I try
By ZachAndTired
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 9:52am
Every once in a while I try to figure out what the difference between cults and mainstream organized religions is. The only thing I can come up with is that if you get a large enough following and stick around for long enough then you are no longer a cult.
It's simple
By tachometer
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 3:39pm
In a cult there is one person at the top who made the whole thing up. In a religion that person is dead.
LOL
By formerlyTheSoBo...
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 9:57am
LOL!!!
Let me ask, if this were a
By anon
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 5:43am
Let me ask, if this were a leader of the Jewish or Muslim faith's, would you disparage these entire religions as well?
Maybe again
By perruptor
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 8:08am
If those organizations were shown to enable, commit, and cover up thousands of crimes against children, then they would deserve disparagement.
What does it tell you that there are not reports of thousands of such crimes committed by imams or rabbis, but there are about such crimes committed by Catholic priests?
hold up, buddy.
By anon
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 9:05am
hold up, buddy.
you can find all sorts of travesties committed by the leaders in the major faiths. whether it is condemning gay people, preaching against the use of condoms in AIDS ridden nations, or simply saying that vaccines are for heretics.
at the end of the day, all religions are a bunch of phooey that bad people will use to enrich themselves, either monetarily (plenary indulgences!) or through the accumulation of influence and power (popes, ayatollahs, etc).
its all a load of horseshit that anyone with a modicum of sense can do without.
Maybe they just haven't been
By anon
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 9:13am
Maybe they just haven't been caught yet?
the faith
By Bobp
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 9:26am
Cardinal Law got off easy and should have been arrested and tried for conspiracy. At least give a public accounting and apology for his actions. Unfortunate the state of MA did not have the will.
As a former Catholic I must say that attacks on the faith are unavoidable in my opinion since the church the face of the faith and the church is still engaged in hiding and not reporting abuse. It is still ongoing this year. When will it end?
Parallel
By mrotown
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 8:48am
Yes. I think there's an interesting parallel to be made between the two. There's something seriously broken with Catholicism because it spawned numerous child rapists and those who are willing to cover for child rapists. Just as there is something seriously broken with Islam because it has spawned numerous terrorists and those willing to cover for them. I'm not saying either religion is hopelessly poisoned, but to pretend like there isn't something broken in a set of beliefs that regularly gives rise to such horrible behavior strikes me as willful ignorance.
The latter, not necessarily the former.
By Bob Leponge
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 2:15pm
I recall some of the analysis at the time, suggesting that the actual incidence of pedophilia among Catholic priests was about the same as you would find in any other similarly sized group of men -- that the main crime was the institutional enabling and cover-up.
Sure. The catholic church is
By Kinopio
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 9:30am
Sure. The catholic church is rotten from the to top to the bottom. The pope gave Law a nice life in Rome after he was responsible for hundreds of instances of kids being raped. Show me another group doing something similar and I'll call them out too.
The pope gave Law a nice life
By Rob
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 11:34am
I shake my head in wonder every time I see something like this.
What were they supposed to do? Any place in the US his presence would be a distraction and a hinderance to any thought of reform or healing. The Saint Mary basilica job in Rome was getting him out of the way and having him make himself useful, filling a job at a tourist spot. It's one of the few pieces of the mess they got any sort of right.
Q: What Were They Supposed To Do?
By AndyF
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 1:39pm
A: Ex-communicate him and strip him of his pension.
"What were they supposed to do?"
By Anon
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 2:02pm
They could have denied his request to move to Rome and let him face charges in Massachusetts.
"Healing"
By perruptor
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 2:07pm
The usual excuse used by people who want to allow powerful criminals to escape punishment. Law was a criminal -- an accessory after the fact of multiple rapes of children. He should have been tried as the criminal he was, and punished after conviction. Ask some of the victims of his crimes how his escape helped their "healing."
What they were "supposed to do" was to allow him to be arrested and tried. That they didn't was more proof that the RCC holds itself above the law, and will do anything to try and protect its reputation and its criminals.
I'm not kidding myself that
By Rob
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 3:28pm
I'm not kidding myself that healing is or was complete or likely ever to be complete - and that's with only my limited outside understanding of what people's pain and damage must be like.
I just remember the environment here circa 2001-2003. It would not have abated if he were in any stateside assignment or simply pushed into retirement & drawing a pension. Moving him to Rome allowed Lennon and then O'Malley to being dealing with some of it.
I certainly hope that "they" would have "allowed" him to be arrested and tried - if he had been charged with anything. Rightly or wrongly, he wasn't charged.
What were they supposed to do?
By Bob Leponge
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 2:19pm
I can think of a lot of things they could have done other than whisking him off to a sinecure job in Rome.
For example, chaining him to a rock and letting vultures rip his flesh from his bones. Or opening up the records to the civil authorities and helping them to prosecute him.
Prosecution
By anon
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 3:37pm
Law was given a cushy life because he would have been sent to prison for obstructing justice and conspiracy.
That is where he should have died - in jail, not opulence.
JP II
By Ward8Mahatma
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 4:05pm
was well on his way to being totally out of it when Law resigned. Ratzinger and a few others were calling the shots by then. Law was also plugged into the Opus Dei/ conservative power center in Rome, most of whose adherents felt he was being victimized. Several cardinals were quoted in the Italian press at the time calling his treatment a “witch hunt”. Even when he had all his marbles, JP II was loathe to discipline allies. Just look at Maciel, founder of the Legionnaires of Christ for whom Hell would be a much too temperate climate.
To answer the question, “what were they supposed to do?”— what had been done in the past: send the person to a remote monastery or missionary outpost to repent. That’s what was done to the Irish cardinal caught having fathered a child. He was sent to a mission in Ecuador, if I remember correctly.
What were they supposed to do?
By Miaow
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 5:00pm
They should have excommunicated him. He should have been prosecuted. He should have gone to jail for knowingly enabling child predators for so long. I was raised Catholic. There is simply no justification for moving child predators around knowing the harm they would inflict upon children and teens. I'm also a survivor.
Yes.
By formerlyTheSoBo...
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 9:31am
YES.
Now let's convert every church in Boston to condos and give a discount to the people who were victims of child molestation.
I'll start the campaign - "Condos before Child Molesters".
Here's the thing. Condemning
By cden4
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 10:34am
Here's the thing. Condemning Catholicism or the Catholic Church is not the same as condemning Christianity. Do we condemn radical sects of Islam (or any religion for that matter) that encourage murder of non-believers? Yes. If we have a sect of Christianity that is enabling child molestation, should we not criticize them as well?
Nobody's disparaging the religion
By Bob Leponge
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 2:03pm
Nobody reasonable is disparaging the religion. The religion is a thing of the spirit. The organization, on the other hand, is a thing of this world: people, job titles, bank accounts, committees, offices, etc. . They are disparaging the organization and the people running it.
It's in the hierarchy
By tachometer
Wed, 12/20/2017 - 3:45pm
After the conversion of Constantine you get the Roman Catholic Church which is basically modeled on the Roman empire. Instead of Caesar you have the pope at the top, instead of generals down to soldiers you have cardinals down to priests (the saints took the place of the many gods but that's a discussion for another day). There is no real equivalent hierarchy in the Jewish or Muslim faith.
I think Law's fatal flaw was that he was more concerned as a general in that hierarchy with protecting the institution and it ended up destroying his ambition. Remember, lots of people were predicting that he would be the first American pope when he was elevated to cardinal.
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