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At 5 p.m., it becomes illegal to use space savers across Boston
By adamg on Sun, 01/07/2018 - 3:40pm
Best space saver in JP, on Woodman Street. Photo by Joe Growhoski.
5 p.m. marks the 48-hour period after the end of the official Boston Blizzard of 2018 Snow Emergency, and that means you have to get your space savers off the streets by then. Don't everybody rush out all at once, though.
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Comments
Where's the space saver?
Where's the space saver in that picture? Is it hidden behind the red car?
Yes it's one of those
SmartCars or maybe the new Fiat.
You call that a space saver?
THIS is a space saver...
Caption,"In this Feb. 23, 2015 photo, a fashion doll in a milk crate saves a parking space on a residential street in South Boston. (AP Photo-Elise Amendola)"
That's just a regular car.
Toddlers are people too,
Toddlers are people too, probably didn’t want to block the sidewalk.
Please correct the headline
It was illegal to use space savers all along. 5PM marks the end of the period during which Walsh announced that the city wouldn't enforce the space saver ban.
Hey Bob, come on by my house
Hey Bob, come on by my house and try moving my space saver. I live at Columbia Rd and O St in Southie. It is a orange cone that says NStar on it. That goes for you too Adam.
If the city had guts
they would either enforce the widely-ignored law, or get rid of the law.
Having so many of your citizens ignoring the rules and proud of it seems stupid. Then when do you know which other rules are OK to ignore? The ones regarding bribery? Nepotism? Public safety? You have a culture of "this is the way things are done here, and you're just supposed to know, not follow the official rules" and "I don't know why this is a rule, so I'm going to ignore it".
No doxxing
Some idiot or drunk sometimes follows up on personal info like that, whether or not it's true, and bad things happen.
Correct
We don't know that the poster lives anywhere near that location, nor that the Nstar cone in question was placed by him. Acting on this message is going to cause some knuckle-dragger to crush the skull of some poor random schmuck.
Hey, NStar
Here's a solid lead on some stolen property of yours
Grow up. Real tough guys don
Grow up. Real tough guys don’t talk that way.
Ya?
I have my cars in my driveway. I have an orange cone that says, "Stolen from dmcboston' on it.
I keep the cone in my garage so it doesn't get stolen.
Plus, my attack turkeys grew up...
Unclear your point?
You going to act like a civilized, law-abiding adult or like a common criminal? Do I need to hire a police escort while I do it?
How does threatening anyone who moves your space saver bear on the question of whether space savers are legal or not?
WTF is up with wtf021?
Is this guy sitting at his front window watching his saver?
Where's his car if he's home?
Or is he across the street in his car with a bunch of takeout wrappers on the dash like a stakeout in the movies?
And then his partner comes with a Dunks coffee and some banter?
WTF indeed.
And speaking of toddlers...
Mine. Mine. Mine.
Awesome trash pickings in Southie
It seems a lot of people have put their trash out early. Not quite as rich as the famed "Allston Christmas", but if you're looking for folding chairs, swing through and pick 'em up. People have nicely left them out a bit from the curb, so they aren't mixed in with the regular trash. . I got about 6 tonight.
Translation: "I don't understand the law, or
how space-savers make our parking scarcity problem worse, and I'm willing to commit vandalism with the risk of a 2.5-year prison sentence in the name of some barbaric notion of vigilante justice to demonstrate my ignorance both of said law and how grownups ought to behave in a civilized society that believes in the rule of law."
Nice values ya got there, fella.
What’s the over/under for
What’s the over/under for when the city actually starts removing space savers? They have tons of snow to move still, I can’t imagine they will be dealing w/ Space savers that quickly.
Honestly
Tomorrow morning for 311 complaints, though my gut is overall they will do the same as the city did when Menino came up with this- Public Works will have them picked up on trash day, which is the most cost effective means.
DPW picking up savers on trash day is best procedure
I honestly don't want my taxes going to some type of enforcement of this issue. It shouldn't even be addressed as condoned or banned.
Just pick up anything on the street 52 weeks a year on trash day. End of story. Everything on the street goes in the truck or on the sidewalk.
Honestly how does a 311 ticket on this even work? Do they send a truck? That's a ridiculous use of city resources.
Savers should be treated like all trash in the street. Not allowed ever.
Our mayor is still playing to his base, averting
his eyes from the old law of the jungle in Southie especially, but also in Dorchester and elsewhere. It's pretty shitty, but I get it: he's a politician.
I'm still tossing the rare space-savers I see in the South End, parking my own car in them when I can, and encouraging everyone I know to do the same. Gotta nip that disease in the bud.
I toss every single one I see
I toss every single one I see. (Which is not many; people in my neighborhood don't generally use space savers; occasionally someone who has moved here from elsewhere tries it. once.)
Many of my neighbors do the same thing. All it takes is a few people doing this and then people get the idea that space savers aren't going to work, and they quit trying to use them.
Good thing you're taking the
Good thing you're taking the law into your own hands there pal. What's the difference between you and a knuckle dragging space saver? Nothing.
What law am I violating?
What law prevents moving a foreign object from the roadway to the curb?
I didn't say you were
I didn't say you were breaking the law, I implied that YOU were enforcing the law.
Does that help ?
Ooh, ooh! I know this one! Let me explain.
One person is breaking the law; the other is removing trash from the street.
Hey, it worked for Menino
Why take the risk?
That's right, we've now had at least 3 mayoral elections since the Menino doctrine was adopted. Not much blowback from it. Now, if he decided to abandon it last winter, perhaps we'd be seeing how Mayor Jackson would be handling this. My guess, just like St. Tom of Readville did.
No way it would be an election issue
Elections are in early November. Unless there's an early storm, space-savers are waaaayy on the back burner for most people. Plus it's likely that space-savers would lose bigly in a hypothetical referendum of city voters. Knuckle-draggers are not a majority, they're just loud and potentially violent. Doubt it would be a big enough issue to toss an election.
Take the wayback machine to 1978
Some claim that the Blizzard cost Dukakis reelection. If the voters truly found this policy (or any policy) so horrible, an opponent worth their salt would seize on it to take the opponent down, making it a strong memory in the eyes of the voters.
Like a assumed, most op the
Like a assumed, most op the 311 “litter” complaints are open as of now, 4:35 pm. I’d hate to have the job of managing 311.
When the city picks up
When the city picks up garbage they can also pick up space savers
Yes, WHEN is right. When
Yes, WHEN is right. When will the city be picking up garbage?
Probably
when they decide to take on the job themselves since it's currently contracted out.
Exactly. I’m not sure the ppl
Exactly. I’m not sure the ppl working on the contracted trucks (I think the company is Capitol) will be picking up trash from the street (as opposed to emptying barrels) and the DPW workers are probably up to their eyes in work this week!
Not illegal
Since when is it illegal? Because somebody on here said so? Space saving has been going on for decades with no problem. It's when some people, whose mother had a driveway, move to the City, is when the whining started. These same people haven't moved their vehicles since it snowed on Christmas, in essence they are saving spaces and you see nobody ratting them out on 311.
Since the law banning it was passed
It is specifically illegal to reserve any portion of a public street per Boston Municipal Code section 16-12.43
linky
Allow me to roll my eyes
We’ve done this dance before, so the eye roll is all I’ll give this time.
Go read the law
Go read the law. It couldn't be clearer.
Let's not do this
One of us could just link to the discussion we had last month and leave it at that.
You know, Antonin Scalia didn't like legislative histories, either.
No, let's do this
Repeat: You have no right to reserve public land
You have no right to reserve public land.
100x on the blackboard by 4pm or Sister Rachet will smack your hand for each one you don't do.
It's a different argument, anon
Bob is citing a specific city ordinance. My counter is that the ordinance was passed to handle a specific issue- smartphone apps used to "sell" public parking spots, like metered spots in the Back Bay and whatnot.
I should have just put this link in to start with yesterday to save Bob and I a lot of typing. One of us is right and the other wrong, and neither of us will admit that the other is right (even though of course I am.)
Legislative histories only go so far
This is not a matter of interpretative stretching some vague legislative text to create meaning not intended by the drafters. The law in question is black-and-white in its absolute simplicity.
When the law says "reserving parking spaces is banned," in so many words, to claim "They didn't really mean to ban reserving parking spaces" is pretty extreme, no?
Do you own a car Bob? If so,
Do you own a car Bob? If so, do you park it on the street? If so, you're claiming public property to store your pollution generating machine. All car drivers are entitled babies.
Kinopio is that you?!?
Kinopio is that you?!?
It's been illegal to "reserve
It's been illegal to "reserve...any street... under the City of Boston's control" since 2014.
There's a bright and clear line
Using the public street to park a duly registered automobile is legitimate
True but it is supposed to be
True but it is supposed to be moved or it’s considered abandoned and can be fined and towed.
Correcter headline: At 5 p.m.
Correcter headline: At 5 p.m., enforcement against illegal space savers begins across Boston
Except enforcement doesn't really begin
Does it?
The city does jack shit to enforce the ban whether it's 48 or 4800 hours.
The operating procedure should be to throw away any item in the street every time a trash truck comes by.
52 weeks a year.
If you get a week with your saver, lucky you. If it's only a day well, tough titty.
This wouldn't cost the city anything extra really and would go a long way. Stuff like TV's and monitors would be put on the sidewalk with perhaps a ticket to 311 or something for a special pickup.
lol
enforcement! that's a good one.
Do you know how long
It takes a toddler to clear a parking space? DO YOU?
Those Little Tykes Coupes are
Those Little Tykes Coupes are worth $20, used. Bank!
Yeah, my two year old would
Yeah, my two year old would swipe that thing quicker than you could say E-I-E-I-O. Those things are like the hottest thing among toddlers.
Lol
Good luck with that
I was in Cambridge today and
I was in Cambridge today and it's a clusterfuck. Roads still covered in snow, many cars still snowed in because people refuse to move them in fear of losing the spot, huge piles of snow everywhere making two-way streets one-way (I'm not sure a fire truck would have gotten through), about 6in of snow by the curb making it hard to park... someone asked earlier, why do we not have a snow removal plan, why do people put up with such nonsense? Yea, I know Cambridge isn't Boston.
I now live in the immediate suburbs and oh god is it nice to have a dedicated spot and not to deal with this crap.
cars still snowed in because
Those are cars people don't move often anyways. You own the car for occasional weekend use, and leave it parked on the street most days of the year.
I don't doubt that somewhere in Cambridge City Hall...
...there's a a group of people thinking, "Hey, maybe if we just stop plowing the roads, people will give up and we can finally have the car-free utopia we've always dreamed of!"
Now, despite that petard, H try to figure out where all that snow is supposed to go on narrow urban streets.
Carsharing!
Carsharing! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carsharing
I CAN TELL MOST OF YOU DIDNT
I CAN TELL MOST OF YOU DIDNT GROW UP IN BOSTON WHEN ITS THIS MUCH SNOW OUT DONT THROW AWAY SOMEONES SPACE SAVER. ESPECIALLY IF YOU LIVE IN THE HOOD DISRESPECT CAN MAKE A NEIGHBOR YOUR ENEMY
I can tell
... that you didn't grow up anywhere.
Stay infantile, my friend.
On the contrary
People whose families have been living in the downtown neighborhoods for generations are some of the most vocal and active about preventing the space-saver habit from getting a foothold in our neighborhoods. More than once I've heard "take that shit and fuck off back to Southie or Charlestown or wherever the eff you came from" from long-term residents. Personally, I can't stand the "I've been here longer so my word counts for more than yours," attitude, so I don't have a lot of respect for that whole line of argument, but that's what the old-timers say.
Didn't grow up here, lived here 25+ years
and guess what. I chuck every space saver when I'm trying to park near my residence or when I'm parking elsewhere in Boston.
No all-caps toughy has done a damn thing to me either. Imagine that.
Counted 15
On my block alone this AM. Laughed out loud.
Ahh, space saver season
Best enjoyed from the 'burbs.
Think I'll grab a snack and sit in my driveway or my garage and watch the litany of "This public space is mine!" posts for the next 3 months.
I'll take space saver-season
I'll take space saver-season over bike-lane season. Those posts are brutal.
at least bike lane season
has some valid arguments over both sides.
Space saver season just has "I PLOWED MY CAR OUT TO USE IT AND BECAUSE OF THAT I OWN THIS PUBLIC PROPERTY FOR THE NEXT 4 MONTHS AND IF YOU MOVE IT I WILL KILL YOU AND YOUR FAMILY AND YOUR DOG AND YOUR HOPES AND DREAMS."
There's an argument for space savers
There is an argument for space savers. Not one to which I subscribe, but it goes sort of like this: "It is an effective way to clear the streets, by providing people with an incentive (48 hours exclusive use of a public parking space) to get them to clear a portion of the street."
Not really
the incentive for clearing out their car is to have use of their car. The incentive to do a decent job of clearing out their car is to not be a dick.
Neither of us agree with the argument
Neither of us agree with the argument, but it is at least a rational argument.
Thanks, by the way
I appreciate people who understand an argument, even if they don't agree with it. You're a good man.
See! If we were arguing over
See! If we were arguing over bike lanes then we'd all be acting like morons by now.
Now you’ve done it
Soon people will be commenting on the snow filled bike lanes, this this post will suffer from uHub bombogenesis.
http://www.universalhub.com
http://www.universalhub.com/2018/rare-unanimity-bicyclists-motorists-and
I'm confused
If you shovel out a snow-filled bike lane, can you put a space saver there?
Warming
People - it's going to be 50 F by this Friday. The big snow should be reduced greatly by then.
All I've read here are
Arguments for one side or the other... no solutions.
Many houses in Boston were built before the automobile was invented and therefore do not have a driveway. I propose that each neighborhood in Boston create its own residential parking program where you are required to have a sticker to park on the street near or at the home in which you live. No residential sticker means an automatic fine for that driver.
For those who do not live in the neighborhood that are visiting, the neighborhoods should have a designated side of the street and spots for these folks to park in...
Maybe it will cost the city money to get it all started and planned but everyone will have to pay a fee to renew the sticker every year or two - this would be a new source of revenue for the city.
Interesting idea
I wonder if it's ever been tried?