Cigar bars and sheesha cafes to be finally banned?
By deselby on Sun, 12/07/2008 - 6:30pm
On Thursday, the Boston Public Health Commission will vote on whether to kill off the few remaining cigar bars and sheesha cafes.
How can unelected bureaucrats legislate with such power over the rest of us? I blame the heavy hand of Menino, whose attempts to stifle any fun or mild mischief is making Boston a dead place. Maybe it's time to start an initiative petition to elect the Public Health Commission.
These bars already have stringent ventilation rules, so the impact on workers approaches nil. Anyways, as with a lot of jobs, individuals can assess the risks and benefits.
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Im pretty sure the person
Im pretty sure the person who works at a cigar bar has more health problems due to car smoke than cigar smoke
Peer-Review
Not. The failure of even high flow air handlers to remove environmental tobacco smoke from indoor areas is well known in the public health community, and much of the reason why "smoking rooms" have been considered a failure.
Even with the best ventilation systems available, one or two cigaretts turns any room into instant Beijing. Yes, this is research done in Boston (I'll dig the link soon - it was published through an open-access journal).
I peer-reviewed several abstracts during this past year for a conference that measured outdoor smoking impacts in narrow streets with sidewalk cafes in Europe. I also peer-rated an article submitted to a public health journal that dealt with measurements of cotinine (a biological marker of tobacco smoke exposure)in workers in outdoor cafes that permitted smoking. It isn't yet published (as is typical, the author is working on refinements suggested by the reviewers), but it was an eye opener how much cigarette smoke even OUTDOOR service staff get around smokers.
Personally, if it were not for the workers who generally have far less latitude than you think to take and keep a job that entails such exposures at the cost of their health, I wouldn't think twice about places for people to smoke with smokers. I do think the owner-staffed bars should be allowed to run, and that the industry should possibly pool money for research into much more effective air handling systems.
EDIT: Here is the FULL-TEXT ARTICLE that I mentioned above, with pre- and post-smoking ban measurements and ventilation assessments.
Studies - bah, humbug!
SG, I note that the elevated mortality rates in your study assume an exposure of 6.7 hours per day over a working life of 40 years.
I seriously doubt that anyone is going to work in a cigar bar 6.7 hours a day for 40 years. For one thing, they would all be fired on some pretext and replaced by younger, more attractive bartenders and waiters long before 40 years of service.
I seriously doubt that anyone would be forced to take a job in a cigar bar - there's always working at McDonald's or stripping.
I've been exposed to oodles of second hand smoke in some very noxious bars. I'm glad that most bars do not have smoking now, for the reason that it saves dry cleaning and I don't have to take a shower at night after a session.
But banning these few small businesses smacks of fanaticism and nanny-statism.
And, I don't think unelected bodies should be making rules of such general impact.
non-smoking hotel room situated above cigar bar
I spent a night at The Millennium Bostonian Hotel a few months ago. Upon checking in, I was informed that there was a very strict rule against smoking in the hotel that carried with it a steep $200 cleanup charge. That's fine with me, since I don't smoke. When I opened the door to the hotel room, it reeked of musty ashtray. When I left the hotel and headed for the North End, I noticed the hotel's cigar bar situated right underneath my hotel room. The smoke most likely travels up through the HVAC and into the 'strictly non-smoking' hotel room. I can't say I was terribly pleased to discover this after the stern warning / no smoking lecture from the hotel staff.
I don't support the ban on cigar bars, however there were certainly no 'stringent ventilation rules' being enforced at this cigar bar.
What Could Be Next?
I'm very reluctant to post this comment - I don't want to start a flame war here -
I just honestly don't understand why an adult should not be able to buy a cigar at a business that sells cigars, then enjoy that cigar at a business that explicitly states that they sell and allow customers to smoke cigars.
Also, I don't understand why an adult cannot decide to work at a business that sells cigars and allows the patrons to smoke their cigars in the same place.
Maybe I'm crazy, but I just don't understand why it should be against the law to buy a cigar, have a drink, and smoke that cigar in the same place? Is there absolutely no possible way to have this sort of establishment without annoying someone?
Look - just figure out some sort of compromise! If smoking a cigar at a cigar shop is against the law, why can't we make burning incense at an incense bar illegal? Why can't we make perfume samples at a perfume bar illegal? Why can't we make sushi at a sushi bar illegal? Why can't we make 1/4 pound burgers illegal at a burger bar? (now I'm hungry!)
In the end, I just wonder what could be next - that's my greatest fear. Once you allow the government to dictate what's healthy for you, I think you've lost too much of your own liberty.
/end hyperbole
I'm with you. I'm all for
I'm with you.
I'm all for the ban on smoking in bars and restaurants, because people don't go there specifically to smoke. Smoking there is an intrusion and it imposes a possible health risk on people who don't want to be exposed to one.
However, cigar bars are different. You are choosing to walk into a smoking situation. Whether you are employed there, or a customer, you know what you are walking into. There are no surprises. If you choose to expose yourself to that health risk... that is your choice.
Ventilation system must work...
....or it must be a separate building, IMO.
I think Cigar bars are a good concept, but if they smoke leaks into adjoining rooms such as the Millennium Hotel example above, then it defeats the purpose of the separate ventilation requirement.
I don't think they should be shut down--just enforce the intent of the rules already in place.
As for the workers, well.....with only a handful of parlors in town, they can easily find work in a non smoking establishment. Concern for the servers was a very, very valid argument during the restaurant antismoking debate, not so much these days.
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who and the what now?
Fuck Menino
Again, as Howie Carr says: This town needs an enema.
Do you even live in Boston, you jerk?
If so, fine, you're entitled to your sad opinion. If not, bite me and everybody else who has found enough good in Menino to keep re-electing him. Actually, even if you do, bite me.
This is not to say ...
That Menino is perfect or that Flaherty or Yoon or Tobin or Candidate X won't make a good case next year to finally depose him, but if you really dislike Menino to the point of yelling expletives at him, you might want to consider anger-management classes.
Menino the mediocre
Menino won the lottery when he was elected City Council President in 1993 and succeeded Flynn. To think that we passed on Bob Rufo, the very competent former Sheriff, and even Chris Lydon, for God's sake. Brett looks less good in hindsight because of his ties to the Bulger mob, of course.
Maybe Menino's better than Flynn, who was big on talk and posturing and small on delivery of services. That's not saying much. Flynn reached his apotheosis as the Ambassador to the Vatican, haunting le barre di Roma by night.
Since then Menino has paved over every road in Boston five times and done what else?
He's used the powers of incumbency to twist donations out of businesspeople and press-ganged city workers into his machine. His thugs in city government call up political opponents and threaten them.
He insists that buildings be named after him, which is a little unsettling in a non-fascist state.
I wish that some intrepid reporter would pore through some of the development deals made over the last few years.
Michael, Sam, someone please run!
So Howie would like to give the city an enema
Of course. All he will have to do, as a world class douchebag, is switch nozzles.
Good one.
It sets itself up!
The city could badly use a mayoral change though, imo.