Pressley would end ICE

By adamg on Mon, 06/25/2018 - 1:47pm

Ayanna Pressley, the at-large city councilor who is running against incumbent US Rep Mike Capuano in the Seventh District, says it's time to bust up ICE, Boston Magazine reports.

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Comments

YET

By SwirlyGrrl
Mon, 06/25/2018 - 4:30pm

They haven't ... yet.

They have summarily executed citizens of Mexico who were not even across the border. Kind of like the good old days when cops went "coon huntin". Ya get to kill people and NO CONSEQUENCES. Wheeee!

Citations needed please.

By anon
Mon, 06/25/2018 - 5:24pm

Citations needed please.

Here you go

By SwirlyGrrl
Tue, 06/26/2018 - 9:46am

http://www.southernborder.org/deaths_by_border_patrol

Note that several of these - including a 2012 murder - were by US agents killing people who were not on US land (some do seem justified - others were "off duty" and involved non-duty activities like getting into drunken fights while armed with their service weapons).

Yes, at least the Canadian

By anon
Mon, 06/25/2018 - 6:09pm

Yes, at least the Canadian border.

If countries in Europe that were blowing each other up 75 years ago can allow seamless travel, why should we have a military-style blockade and interrogation when you enter from Canada?

Good!

By Bippy
Mon, 06/25/2018 - 2:45pm

ICE has too much power and causes too much fear. They destroy families and communities. There *must* be a better way to manage immigration in ways that aren't violent, predatory, and destructive. How many millions or billions are we spending on enforcers and detainment camps and breaking families apart.

A better way

By Roman
Mon, 06/25/2018 - 11:40pm

Like a wall and less permissive tourist visas from certain countries where the population are likely to overstay.

Aw, shucks

By Will LaTulippe
Tue, 06/26/2018 - 12:19am

I almost took you seriously throughout this entire thread, too. I didn't even demand that you put a dollar in the jar for citing the rule of law, because I don't think we're all clear on immigration laws, and the different contexts for American entry.

Hell, I've said for a long time that I think it's such a thorny issue in America in large part because few, if any, civilians appear to be clear on what the strike zone is for who can be here, and for how long, and who can't come in at all. My brother married his wife in part because she was going to have to go back to France, and she went to frickin' college and worked in a law office. If that's not a strike for who gets to stay, I don't know what is.

But you've lost me by saying the magic word. AIRPLANES CAN FLY OVER WALLS. We don't have a problem controlling the border. We have plenty of personnel and a (expletive) laser which tracks when a person has crossed the border. We also have a Coast Guard should they endeavor to float in.

This country doesn't have an immigration problem. We spend an obscene amount of money on defense, and we nominally get something of value. Our border patrol and coast guard ain't cheap, but they deliver what they promise. They did nab the jogger and toss her in jail, after all. I didn't petition my Congresspeople to establish a jogger-catching force, or want for them to do that, but they did the job they get paid to do, even if it's a (expletive) mission.

What we have is an emigration problem. We don't appear to kick the bad ones back out with any kind of efficiency or lasting force. We had Tamerlan gone, mind you. He came right back in.

A living human is going to occupy terra firma somewhere. Typically, they respond to the incentives of worthwhile currency and employment, and end up here, and in Germany. A shame that we end up playing hot potato with humans.

Well, we DID have a Coast Guard

By SwirlyGrrl
Tue, 06/26/2018 - 9:54am

We also have a Coast Guard should they endeavor to float in.

Problem is, Drumpf has asked to almost entirely defund it under the guise of paying for his hairbrained wall stupidity, because the Coasties' drug interdiction activities interfere with some of his "business" interests, like that laundry he was running in Panama.

[Gotta wonder exactly how effed up the situation is when our boy Will here becomes such a consistent voice of reason.]

No Irish need apply!

By lbb
Tue, 06/26/2018 - 7:56am

less permissive tourist visas from certain countries where the population are likely to overstay

Yeah. About that...

Cap has been great to the

By anon
Mon, 06/25/2018 - 2:48pm

Cap has been great to the area for YEARS! ...and has stood against unwarranted Ice raids in the past.

Pressley doesn't stand a chance and is just trying to make noise to win over some votes.

Wrong!!

By Brian Riccio
Mon, 06/25/2018 - 8:17pm

If Pressley "didn't stand a chance", Capuano would not have pulled John Lewis out of his ass for an endorsement.

Pretty gross of you to say that

By boo_urns
Tue, 06/26/2018 - 11:22am

Regarding John Lewis as if he's disposable, dude.

Gee, Dude!!

By Brian Riccio
Tue, 06/26/2018 - 11:44am

I've been wracking my brain this morning looking for the part in the post where I claimed Lewis was "disposable"?

"Pulled him out of his ass"

By boo_urns
Tue, 06/26/2018 - 12:32pm

You're really oblivious to yourself.

Also...

By Brian Riccio
Tue, 06/26/2018 - 2:36pm

Not oblivious to the fact that Capuano has a woman challenger of color who is gaining in popularity and is a threat to Mike's longstanding position and why wouldn't he or someone in the DCCC ask an icon like Lewis to look after one of his own?

And I mean Capuano.

I know this link won't

By Michael Ellis Day
Mon, 06/25/2018 - 4:49pm

I know this link won't impress anyone who thought Obama was a Kenyan Marxist or that Stephen Miller is making America great again...but for the benefit of those who aren't sure about this ICE business and have a vague sense something not good is happening, here's a brief overview of how we got here:

https://splinternews.com/a-short-brutal-history-of...

ICE was designed from the start to be a super-efficient streamlined machine to deport nonwhite people and criminalize immigration as much as they could get away with. Mashing all those formerly disparate departments together helps them avoid pesky outmoded things like court oversight and due process and fair hearings. Breaking it up and restoring all those separate departments won't make our borders disappear or open the door to terrorists and gang members. It will just go a little bit towards restoring much needed oversight. The industries making a fortune off running private detention facilities will fight tooth and nail to protect ICE; always remember people are making big bucks off dehumanizing brown people and a lot of the rhetorical flummery will be exposed for what it is.

Question

By Waquiot
Mon, 06/25/2018 - 7:41pm

Did ICE write immigration law?

It looks to be that their role is enforcement of the immigration laws passed by Congress. If the issue is deporting nonwhite people and criminalizing immigration, that’s on Congress for passing the laws in force.

This is disingenuous as fuck

By boo_urns
Mon, 06/25/2018 - 11:09pm

The same law was passed years ago, yet the interpretation of it from Clinton, Bush, Obama had never changed until Trump. Shifting the blame to Congress when the record clearly shows this is a new, gratuitous interpretation from this administration, especially with all of the reporting on this issue and precise topic, is effectively gaslighting.

I know you consider yourself something of a non-partisan straight shooter, and I'd agree you're tough but fair, generally, but this is a hot take. And also, considering that Congress has been Republican majority since the Tea Party sweep, it's hard to blame anyone but the GOP for the status quo.

You're reading way too much in to my comment

By Waquiot
Tue, 06/26/2018 - 8:52am

My point is that ICE enforces the law. They did is under Obama. They did it under Bush 43. They're doing it under Trump. They don't make any of the laws they enforce. The problem is not with ICE. The problem is with the politicians. They make the laws.

Yeah, no

By lbb
Tue, 06/26/2018 - 9:13am

ICE enforces the law selectively, and bends/breaks the law, according to the whims of whoever is running them.

The key phrase is

By Waquiot
Tue, 06/26/2018 - 11:17am

"whoever is running them." But even at that, much like any administration, legal yoga takes place so that the law would technically be followed. To give two examples, the previous administration could never decree that people here illegally could stay in the US; but they did, through the DACA program, defer on enforcement. Conversely, this administration followed the letter of the law with enforcement against adults crossing the border illegally and children crossing the border illegally, with a policy technically legal but very questionably moral.

Bullshit I am.

By boo_urns
Tue, 06/26/2018 - 11:20am

What they're doing now is enforcement of a new policy direction from the same law under a different administration. Now I do believe you're trying to gaslight. Your statement reads as if the law is clear as day. It's not. Unless you need a civics lesson to why we have an entire system of appeals courts that get into the weeds and interpret the laws and what they mean.

You put it best

By Waquiot
Tue, 06/26/2018 - 12:37pm

It's in the enforcement. Obama was lax in his enforcement while Trump is overly strict. In the end, they have to base their actions on the law or what is permissible under the law. ICE carries out what the administration wants it to do, though they must act within the constraints of the law.

At the end of the day, Trump can deport anyone who is not in the country legally, while Obama could only defer deportation. Most people have noted that it is pretty impractical to deport everyone who is here illegally, but that would be what the law allows.

In short, blame the game, not the players.

Nah

By boo_urns
Tue, 06/26/2018 - 3:20pm

Trump isn't "overly" strict. Come on man, you're trying to have your cake and eat it too with this argument. There's nothing in the law that says anything about how strict you have to be and that sort of discretion is entirely in the hands of the players, as you put it. But trying to frame this as a crafted "game" by Congress is being rather gratuitous to your argument.

It's almost like you're saying "The law is the law and we have to follow it except when we don't really want to and we can just enforce the policies we want and only the ones we want." There's basically no consistency between that statement and virtue signaling over "rule of law." At least there isn't in effect.

ICE ignores immigration law

By anon
Wed, 06/27/2018 - 12:25pm

That's the problem. They not only think they are above the law and beyond the law, they think that they ARE the law.

They usurp the rights of the courts, and ignore court orders and judgements left and right so that they can make their own "administrative rules" to quickly remove citizenship and rights from immigrants.

Pull your head out honey - your time will come.

Just say it!

By Brian Riccio
Mon, 06/25/2018 - 7:42pm

ICE is nothing more than the brownshirt deportation force Trump promised to his idiot followers on the trail.

So now these thick necked morons, most of who couldn't cut it as mall security, now have been taken off their leashes by their new racist master and his lapdog, Tom Homan. Homan, who when asked about the morality of his actions, simply stared into the camera with eyes red from alcohol and said he was enforcing the law. This from a man who works for the biggest criminal to ever disgrace the White House.

deport nonwhite people and

By anon
Mon, 06/25/2018 - 7:50pm

[i]deport nonwhite people and criminalize immigration[/i]

Those are opposites. You either deport, or imprison. Not both.

Why not both?

By lbb
Tue, 06/26/2018 - 7:59am

Have you not been paying attention? All the MAGAts have been braying like the jackasses that they are about "what part of ILLEGAL don't you understand" and "we are a nation of laws" (like that matters when their Fuehrer yells "Knock the crap out of 'em"). They manufacturer a criminal offense out of a civil violation; that's what "criminalize" means, for the vocabulary challenged. Then they use that as an excuse to do WHATEVER THE HELL THEY WANT.

Be careful which side you choose in this. Your grandkids will ask about what you did in this time.

So if a white cisgendered make gets deported

By Roman
Mon, 06/25/2018 - 11:51pm

it's a fluke?

Or someone outed him as a homosexual?

Or you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth, came of age in a time of plenty in the greatest country on this Earth, have never known any real hardship, and need to invent racists and Nazis and dragons to fight to make yourself feel important?

(Puts on sunglasses a la Horatio Cane)

By Will LaTulippe
Tue, 06/26/2018 - 12:23am

Looks like he needs to...imagine dragons.

YEAHHHHHHH

What?

By Brian Riccio
Tue, 06/26/2018 - 7:57am

Fuck you mean, “greatest country on Earth “? Look at the mortality and literacy rates in parts of this great country. “Greatest country “ my ass.

You need to get out more

By Roman
Tue, 06/26/2018 - 11:12pm

People here are free to succeed and free to fail. That's a good thing.

But I'll grant you this place isn't all smiles and sunshine.

For example, if it weren't for your jackbooted fellow travellers throwing riots at the sight of people they disagree with out minding their own business, this would be unambiguously the greatest country on Earth.

You'll forgive me, but...

By Brian Riccio
Wed, 06/27/2018 - 12:31am

These are the same people who have never minded when the media chased their ass and they had time to stop and chat a tell a few lies to the impotent nitwits that make up TV political "journalists".

Now they're getting the attention they don't like from Americans who don't give a shit about their Q ratings and now they're all up in arms? If Mr Rogers was alive he probably would have tossed Pam Bondi out of his movie himself, no?

Also, may you missed the many times the orange idiot incited violence himself among the poorly educated he loves so much at his rallies?

Invented racists and Nazis...

By lbb
Tue, 06/26/2018 - 8:02am

...comin' right up!

I dunno, Roman, seems like they invented themselves. Better get your glasses checked, son. Or are you just a disingenuous liar?

Careful there

By SwirlyGrrl
Tue, 06/26/2018 - 9:39am

Recent ICE activity indicates that even being a naturalized citizen won't protect you.

When they come for you.

Honestly...

By Brian Riccio
Tue, 06/26/2018 - 10:00am

I'm chomping at the bit for that...

No joy there

By SwirlyGrrl
Tue, 06/26/2018 - 10:14am

No matter how much schadenfreude could be found in it, it would also be a sign of how the American dream has been utterly destroyed by greed, racism, and militaristic totalitarianism.

What?

By Brian Riccio
Tue, 06/26/2018 - 11:14am

You don't want to do a few days in a tanning bed, jump on a plane to San Diego, throw on some shitty clothes and a do-rag and leave your ID at home and see what happens when you're picked up in a raid and they find out who you really are?

Or do you just want to take a ride up 93 and wait to tell an ICE goon when they ask your status to fuck him or herself?

Either one I'm down for...

But OTOH

By Scratchie
Tue, 06/26/2018 - 12:10pm

No matter how much schadenfreude could be found in it, it would also be a sign of how the American dream has been utterly destroyed by greed, racism, and militaristic totalitarianism.

But OTOH, no more Roman. I admit I'm torn.

Keep going guy

By Roman
Tue, 06/26/2018 - 11:17pm

I'm only a few veiled threats of violence away from having enough to get an unrestricted LTC on the grounds that anti-Semitic and anti-immigrant online trolls make me fear for my safety.

You can't complain about trolls

By boo_urns
Wed, 06/27/2018 - 10:17am

when you are one.

Veiled threats of violence

By anon
Wed, 06/27/2018 - 10:28am

Those threats aren't veiled, and they aren't coming from UHub

History more than adequately demonstrates that they are coming from an administration and its policies that you support.

You are a fool if you can't see that commentators pointing this out to you aren't threatening you in the least - THEY ARE TRYING TO WARN YOU of the natural history of such things.

Read up on what happened to Jews who supported Bolshevism. Or certain Cubans who supported Castro before he moved to consolidate power. The decade is different, the locale is less exotic, but the story is the same time after time.

Get over it...

By Brian Riccio
Wed, 06/27/2018 - 12:19pm

Snowflake...

What are you smoking these days?

By Roman
Tue, 06/26/2018 - 11:44pm

Whatever it is, it seems to be different from before because you're no longer hallucinating that it's the moon Nazis that will be the end of me.

Nobody is smoking anything except you

By anon
Wed, 06/27/2018 - 12:19pm

Read this:

If you are a naturalized citizen, ICE has usurped the right of local prosecutors and is stripping people of their citizenship and deporting them because they don't like their kind.

Since they get lots of civil forfeiture goodies when they do this, don't think for a minute that you are too special for them to target.

To quote Adam

By anon
Mon, 06/25/2018 - 8:08pm

“We’re a nation of laws”. Must be hard to see them working.

Show me the law...

By lbb
Tue, 06/26/2018 - 8:02am

...that calls for incarcerating asylum seekers. Do that, cupcake. I'll wait.

It's in there somewhere

By Roman
Tue, 06/26/2018 - 11:21pm

Probably between the part about making an asylum claim at a port of entry and the part about anyone including citizens being required to cross at a port of entry instead of hopping g the dance and crying about getting caught.

You are welcome in my home, but if you try to come in unannounced at 2am through the window, you do so at your own peril.

Was deported Irishman really an electrician?

By O-FISH-L
Tue, 06/26/2018 - 9:20am

IIRC, Kevin Cullen wrote of the sob story of the deported, Irish alleged "electrician" and received plenty of blowback from real, licensed electricians who had no record of the deported man being a licensed electrician. If the Irishman was fiddling with wires and electricity without a license, that's a lot more serious and deadly than a landscaper or maid here illegally. I know many members of Local 103 who went through the five year licensing process were incensed with the story.

I'm not sure if the Globe's "comprehensive" investigation into Cullen looked at that one but an electrician license is just as easily looked up as a marathon finisher.

This is the first I heard of Japanese being placed in concentration camps although I know that Americans of Japanese descent were placed there by Democrats. Big difference. In many cases they were longtime, productive U.S. citizen landowners and had been born here or gone through the process.

On the main issue, Pressley is brilliant to "out liberal" Capuano since the winner of the Democrat primary will win the seat. She should also call for impeachment and a ban on all Republicans in local restaurants. Outrageous to eliminate ICE but should play well in the cheese shops. Capuano might have to repeat his phrase "it's time to get bloody in the streets."

Oh, hi, Fish

By erik g
Tue, 06/26/2018 - 10:18am

You've managed it again... in a thread about literal brownshirts holding children in literal concentration camps, you've managed to make yourself the worst person in the room. It's no small feat, keeping your claim as King of Shit Mountain, but I see you're not one to let daunting tasks slow you down.

A good rule of thumb for reading Fish

By Will LaTulippe
Tue, 06/26/2018 - 10:36am

Is to stop after two paragraphs. That's where he makes his left turn on two wheels. He spoke wisely about journalistic fact-checking before he went off on the history lesson.

Smelly rotten fish

By anon
Tue, 06/26/2018 - 10:46am

Remember when Charlie Faker told the story about the fisherman from Gloucester who story of the hardships of his job made Faker cry? It turns out Faker made the whole thing up. Reporters searched for the alleged fisherman,but he didn't exist.

And btw Fishy when did Pressley say all Republicans should be banned from local restaurants? Are you trying to tell bigger lies than your Orange idol?