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How about a 26-cent increase in the gas tax?
By adamg on Wed, 01/14/2009 - 9:37am
State Rep. David Linsky of Natick and some other MetroWest pols are making the proposal - and say it would raise enough to eliminate not just turnpike tolls, but tolls on the Tobin Bridge and the harbor tunnels. Don't worry: We'd still tax New Yorkers and, um, Connecticutters via tolls at the state lines (why not New Hamphirites and Vermonters, too, though?). Gov. Patrick recently sorta, kinda came out in favor of an increase.
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Comments
Hey Im all for it, Id pay 4
Hey Im all for it, Id pay 4 dollars more a week on gas and save a fortune on tolls... Id love to see how those who drive in other parts of the state that dont have tolls would react to this though!
Great, 50% tax!
Taxes are already ~43 cents, and they want to boost them another 25 cents or so? On gas that costs $1.50-ish-including-tax currently?
BRILLIANT!
PS:Ever wonder why they don't show you the pre-tax gas price? Mmmmhmmm.
Where are you getting gas for $1.50?
I'd love to fill up there.
Sounds good to me. Time to
Sounds good to me.
Time to lower demand and get off Middle Eastern oil that funds terrorism, and also make green energy more competitive.
Now I'll wait for the SUV people to come in here an bitch and complain that their 3 ton, V8 Hemmy SUV will cost them too much.
They should include initiatives to attract Green Energy business to MA too.
One problem
This would go into the pockets of everyone's favorite military leader, General Fund.
Where it went from there is anybody's guess, but it would always be a short term funding issue.
Is it possible to do otherwise? To provide long-term secure funding for comprehensive maintenance of the entire transportation infrastructure on an ongoing basis? If not, it's just yet another "we'll do that later we promise - maybe when someone gets killed".
26 cents!
I don't drive on toll roads to work. Why should I suffer because of it? Why should MA residents (and residents of other states) endure higher gas prices to bail out MA agencies?
How about spreading the pain around - a 15 cent increase in gas tax and a 50-cent increase in tolls (or something like that). Oh, and pay cuts for all MA pols and agency bigwigs.
For Whom the Truth Tolls
Oh, so you've been freeloading for a long time and those of us who drive little or none at all have been subsidizing your travel through taxpayer-supported construction and maintenance of these roads. Don't get me started on how much property tax collected from non drivers gets spent to plow the roads, but not the sidewalks. Wanna calculate all that out, and add the interest you owe?
Or are toll roads the only ones that cost any money to build or operate in your strange world?
This is about people who
This is about people who drive and bailing out MTA and others. A gas tax and toll increase isn't going to affect you since obviously you are such a great human being and don't drive. So stop complaining. You are not a victim in this and drivers aren't your enemy.
Whine about your other problems on some other soapbox.
Sign in and grow up ...
... and maybe I will. In the meantime, I'm going to point out to all anonymous driving whiners such as your self/selves that you are getting a much bigger free ride than you want to face up to. Sorry that you don't like to hear that, but whining and insulting and blaming and not even reading the quote or the response to it don't change the ugly truth.
Owning a vehicle does not make you special or better or give you the right to claim huge subsidies for that privilege that go far beyond the social value of having roads - I don't think owning a car myself does, either. Driving should cost a lot because it does cost a lot, even when social good is considered.
And yes, it is my business because I pay taxes that support your driving and my driving alike, you got!
THIS. This (stupid) idea
THIS.
This (stupid) idea that everyone should be on their own is false and kinda goes against the whole idea of forming a government that our founders had. Bridges and roads all over the state add to everyones well being.
Own a business? the roads bring customers and products to you at our shared expense. Work in another town or every bother leaving? You're costing them money due to maintenance and wear and tear. Buy something not produced in MA? Guess how it got here.
Here's one example is the economic impact roads produce, or the quality of life they provide:
Study's have been done and found that if we could get rid of traffic into and out of Boston alone, we'd add $2 Billion a year to the MA economy that we're currently losing due to congestion.
That would end up making us all better as an individual and as a commonwealth.
People forget about that.
People forget about that. While they may not fly out of Logan they depend on services coming from Logan. While they may not drive the pike they use services that depend on the infrastructure.
I guess it's ok
I like it, but the legislation is pretty shortsighted. The number of people using cars that run purely on gasoline is likely to decrease significantly in the next five years. While the reduced engine noise and emissions are great, ZEVs still tear up the road. They should have to help pay for that.
Then there's inflation/deflation. Why fix the tax at a set price when the value of the dollar is likely to change substantially in the next few years. Linking the tax to the Consumer Price Index helps insure steady real income for the state and a predictable tax burden for consumers.
And what about gas that never sees the roadway? There's a tremendous amount of land in this state dedicated to agriculture. Should the tractors that provide us fresh, local produce be taxed more so people inside 128 can dodge a few toll booths?
Let's not forget, too, that the Commonwealth is not particularly large. By shifting the tax penalty from road use to resource consumption, we're basically encouraging people to drive here and live somewhere else. Does I-93 really need another thousand commuters coming in from New Hampshire each morning?
That having been said, it's a decent solution, and way easier to implement than congestion taxes. I just think it's less fair.
-Cosmo
http://cosmocatalano.com
World's Toughest Writer
Tolls at the borders would help there
...or, how about a commuter tax like the one they have in NY? If you live in NJ and work in NY, you get hit with an extra tax on your NY wages.
ZEVs??
There is not likely to be a significant proportion of ZEVs on the road in the next five years; and even if there were, we should be promoting them.
As for road wear... the more efficient vehicles are smaller, and do much less damage. The rule of thumb is that the wear is proportionate to the *fourth* power of the axle weight; so a 6000 lb Expedition does something like 2^4 = sixteen times the damage of a 3000 lb Prius. By charging a flat gas tax, you're actually making the Prius driver pay way more than their share.
Hard for me to believe that people choose what state to live in based on gas tax... but I know it's true. ugh.
Overall, I guess it's sensible enough, but I'd make it an even buck :-p
Same reason people move to
Same reason people move to NH to say they got away from tax-a-chusetts...
..Then Pay more in bureaucracy "fees" all over the government system and a much, much higher property tax.
But they get to say they're free and escaped those damn lubruls taking their money!
$.26 increase!
When I heard they were thinking about a gas tax increase to raise money as opposed to a toll increase I was all for it. Better to spread that money around to everyone who uses the roads, but $.26 that's way too much. I was thinking it would be like a nickel max.
Seems too high
I don't like the idea of a gas tax, but if we need it, we need it - but 26 cents seems too high to me too.
I'd rather see the hike split between tolls & the gas hike, especially if most of the money goes to toll roads.
Quite a bit was going to
Quite a bit was going to toll roads because they were taking care of their own infrastructure from toll profits
The "pay me later" option
Why so high? Because MA expected things not to rot or change for years because raising taxes to cover the actual cost of having roads and bridges was considered too evil to contemplate.
This is a lot like MA's huge blunder with water quality that lead to the MWRA being formed by court order. Idiot state officials missed out on US funds for water quality projects linked to meeting new standards because they didn't see any problem with dumping shit directly into the harbor and didn't want to raise rates. Then a federal court ordered the state to meet the new standards anyway when a jogging judge stepped in human poop on the beach.
Neglect and incompetence regarding infractructure led to what some older folks think is excessively expensive water (even though they were not even beginning to pay for the damage their excessively cheap rates did in the past). Now neglect and incompetence of infrastructure means that some people think that paying for the obvious and predictable consequences of low taxes means overly expensive gas.
Hate to say it, but the real
Hate to say it, but the real reason for the attitude and why the ideology took foot, is because real wages have been falling for quite some time.
Real wages that are instead being funneled to CEO pay and dividend payouts to wealthy shareholders.
Everything comes full circle, and this is the product of turning a worker into a liability on your accounting sheet; a cost that needs to be cut and reduced.
So yes, taxes, for the majority, are starting to take bigger chunks out of their paychecks due to a fall in real wages.
Sounds like a good idea.
This:
sounds like it would make great, good sense.
Well this is the price we
Well this is the price we pay for nickle and dimeing our responsibility as taxpayers for the last 30 years. Now we owe what we would have spent, plus interest, plus additional money for neglect.
Isn't it something like 250 bridges in MA are "structurally deficient" because there was no money for up keep? Don't even get me started on those earthen damns that only become a topic of conversation when we get a unusually wet spring that threatens to take our a town center or two.
We're coming round to the point where we're going to be paying the price; either a total cut of services and infrastructure funding, or a heavy tax burden, all due to the ideology for the past 30 years told everyone taxes are bad and we need to get rid of them.
That extra $100 in our pay checks was nice while it lasted, to bad we didn't have the foresight to see how it would have been missed.
I'm all for government efficiency and making government work, but this idea that taxes are bad and should be cut period was a posing we all drunk as an easy fix to a system nobody had the time for, but wanted to change.
toll for NH people
How about from 6-10 am Massachusetts puts a 5 dollar toll on 95, 3, and 93 South at the NH border. Then from 3-7 pm Massachusetts puts a $5 toll northbound on those same roads?
NH would retaliate by
NH would retaliate by putting 20 dollar tolls for when people want to vacation in NH in the summer...
thats ok
let em do it. It be worth to take the back roads if you are just going up once or twice right?
Ive sat in traffic waiting
Ive sat in traffic waiting to get up to NH in the summer, especially on race days. Good luck to you if you and thousands of others want to brave the great white north and use the side streets that better designed for logging trucks then sedans
the traffic is going to be the same anyway....
and what if MA gave MA residents a rebate if they travel to NH and have to pay the toll! That money could come from the new NH tolls.
In all seriousness, those NH tolls are horrible. I think MA should do something about it, and a toll for NH commuters could be a good threat.
I think those tolls were put
I think those tolls were put in place before the big northern migration. NH probaly didnt have a clue that its own residents would be hit by these tolls everyday when they were put in. I would think that there would be a movement in Southern NH to get rid of the tolls by those residents who drive to Boston or MA daily to get to work.
The first I heard about such
The first I heard about such a proprosal on the news I think last week or maybe the week before it was presented I had thought by the governor as, "Now that gas prices are back down, we could raise the gas tax to make up for the needed funds for the state budget," the idea being that it wouldn't be too much of a burden as people were already used to much higher gas prices.
The problem I have with this is that the governor didn't help us out when prices were much higher than anything we were used to and climbing every day by granting temporary gas tax relief.
I own a car, and I'm absofuckinglutely in favor of this
Tax the bejeezus out of gas. Make it cost $5 a gallon like it does in most of the world. Make getting a driver's license cost $5000+ like it does in most of the world. Make things so the people will have to create public transportation where it doesn't exist.
Raise the tolls, too. Use the money for public transportation, renewable energy, education, healthcare...
Since people aren't motivated to change their habits by, oh, the thought that Boston is going to be under water in our lifetimes at the current rate, money or legislation are going to be the only things that are going to change behavior. Fine people for throwing out recyclable/reusable items while we're at it. Charge people $1.00 for each paper cup. I can guarantee you fewer people will forget their mugs. And fewer people, myself included, will drive down the street to the pharmacy because they were feeling lazy at the time.
http://1smootshort.blogspot.com
thank god some people who drive can see benefits in this
I don't have any interest in taking things as far as you want to, but what I see with a gas tax and no tolls is:
- yes, some people will pay more, but it's those who haven't been getting hammered by tolls all along because they happen to have routes that avoid toll roads. toll road / no toll road, it shouldn't control where people live or work but when the cost reaches the point it's going to, this will change where people live and work. Eastie in particular could end up even more isolated.
but most of all :
- no more stacked up cars at the toll booths
- less pollution from cars stacked up at toll plazas
- no more incremental expense (money AND time) for people to screw with transponders, special bank accounts, replenishing funds...
- less stress for taxi drivers and cheaper fares from Logan for people who need to use a taxi or car to get in and out
- recovery of the wages now going to pay hacks (Howie Carr's word, but i like it in this context) to sit in booths, cuz there will be no booths
I can't think of any aspect of road tolls that doesn't increase misery in some way.
If they get rid of the tolls
If they get rid of the tolls I will start taking the mass pike between East Boston and Cambridge to get to Cambridge starting the next day. The congestion on every other route is insane but the price of getting on in East Boston and paying to get off in Cambridge is just too much for me to pay (its always dead on that strip of road, and could take some of the congestion off of the other roads.)
Getting rid of the tolls may be an idea whose time has come.
I think the tolls have outlived their usefulness, and without tolls, there'd be far less traffic congestion. If it happens here in the Bay State, maybe that should be an idea for the United States at large. Unfortunately, there's a trade-off; Taxes may well be somewhat higher, because people would have to pay for the maintenance and necessary work on roads, highways and bridges in some way or other.
Actually, without tolls there might be more congestion
With no tolls, people would be more likely to take the turnpike rather than "competing" roads such as Rte. 9 (all the better for me, Rte. 9 slogger that I am). Certain cities (London springs to mind) actually use tolls to reduce congestion at rush hour - if you really want to get to the City by car at 8 a.m., you're going to pay more for the privilege. It's sort of the same concept as how building new roads to relieve congestion typically results in more congestion.
Maybe they can have some
Maybe they can have some limited tolling, possibly located on off ramps in the city itself. I dont think someone trying to get from the North Shore to the South Shore or from Metro West to the Airport should be paying the high tolls they currently have to pay.
The one-way toll system:
The one-way toll system, which has been used on the Tobin Bridge for some time seems to work pretty well.
yes it's great
because i know the way around it, for the return :)
$5000?
$5000 to get a driver's license? Huh?
$5, 000.00 for a driver's license is way too much.
n/m
registry fee
All though you could raise the registry fee for your vehicle every 2 years.