All she claimed was that ancestors x generations back were Native, and this test shows that.
I'm not even a huge Liz fan and I find her annoying anytime I see her on TV. I like her as a senator but do not want her as a president. She is far more effective as a senator.
The test shows she possibly is 1/52nd to 1/1024th Mexican or South American.
1. Warren still cannot point to any specific ancestor who was Native American. 2. Warren never lived as a Native American or associated with Native Americans.
3. Warren didn't claim to be Native American until her late 30s.
4. Warren only used alleged Native American status for employment purposes, and stopped claiming that status when she got tenure at Harvard Law School.
5. There remains zero evidence Warren was a descendant of the Cherokee or Delaware tribes.
6. The DNA test does not prove Warren is Native American, at most there is “strong evidence” of a single ancestor dating back 6-10 generations, based on analysis that compares Warren’s DNA to numerous groups, including non-Native American groups.
Obviously this isn't going to change anyone's opinion of Warren, nor does it say anything about her ability to be a Senator/Presidential Candidate, but pretending that she has been 100% honest about this issue is absurd.
DNA tests are not perfect. What it does show is that she has an ancestor that was Native American, which shows that she was telling what she knew to be true. So, yes, she was being 100% honest.
So your #1, #2, #3, #5 and #6 are straw men. #4 is debatable.
Why don't you do so analysis on President Pussy Pant's verifiable false and misleading claims since he took office? You have close to 5,000 to choose from.
Your comments couldn't be more wrong. DNA tests aren't just "not perfect", they aren't accepted by Cherokee nation to prove membership.
Regardless, this test DID NOT compare her DNA to that of ANY Native American, it compared it to South American DNA, and the assumption was made that those ancestors would have moved into the US at some point.
The test also shows that she had less "Native American" DNA than the average white American.
So yes, she was being 100% honest...sure. 10 generations of "family lore". This possible Native American ancestor was around before the Revolutionary War, and possibly before Manhattan was purchased from the Dutch, but hey, I'm sure her family kept very detailed notes on their lineage....they just lost the page that actually stated who among them was actually Cherokee.v
A generation is "all of the people born and living at about the same time, regarded collectively". It can also be described as, "the average period, generally considered to be about thirty years, during which children are born and grow up, become adults, and begin to have children of their own".
Ooops, another correction from the Boston Globe. She's now between 1/64th and 1/1,024th Native American.....
Genetics are probablistic in nature. Your numbers look nice as abstract arithmetic, but not reflect heritability patterns observed for humans and how we pass along genetic info.
The actual Boston Herald newspaper couldn’t even find one spare inch of space for this story today.
You’d think, after all the whining Howie has done about “Pocahontas,” this story would be worth a spot in the Herald. But Joe “oh, please” Fitzgerald got half a page of space to complain about hypocrisy...from liberals.
Print readers are the ones that pay the bills for both the Globe and the Herald.
Viewing the layout of a physical newspaper is a lesson in what the publisher thinks matters. Silly little news websites (this one notwithstanding, which is a testament to Adam's organizational skills) are about what those who click on stories think matter. Exhibit #1- the decline of boston.com.
My bet is that the Herald will have a few columns on it, including one by Howie Carr. They will be as dismissive of the report as most of the more conservative commenters here are. I also predict that if Warren somehow is the frontrunner in 2020, Trump will still hammer her on the issue and it will hurt her bad. I mean, he tied Ted Cruz' dad to the Kennedy assassination. Doing things like that is Trump's main political skill. And before you scoff at that, remember that he is currently President of the United States.
Some of the Herald’s papers go to press after the early edition of The Globe. Although since they moved their printing to Providence, they can’t seem to get final scores into the paper I receive, even though I live right in Boston.
I also checked their final edition PDF which did have late scores, full Red Sox and Patriots stories, but not one word about Elizabeth Warren’s DNA.
Once again, a print paper can't be expected to have a print article that refers to a competing paper's alleged journalism until paper #2 has actually published something.
They had SIX columnists in addition to one regular reporter writing two articles on the issue. So in case you thought the Herald didn't have anyone working for them anymore, there's proof they do (except that I believe Carr and Graham are technically no longer employees.)
That's as many writers as the Globe dedicated to their spotlight series on Aaron Hernandez' sex life this week.
DNA
I got, I got, I got, I got
Loyalty, got royalty inside my DNA
Cocaine quarter piece, got war and peace inside my DNA
I got power, poison, pain and joy inside my DNA
I got hustle though, ambition, flow, inside my DNA
I was born like this, since one like this
Immaculate conception
I transform like this, perform like this
Was Yeshua's new weapon
I don’t contemplate, I meditate, then off your fucking head
This that put-the-kids-to-bed
This that I got, I got, I got, I got
Realness, I just kill shit 'cause it's in my DNA
I got millions, I got riches buildin’ in my DNA
I got dark, I got evil, that rot inside my DNA
I got off, I got troublesome, heart inside my DNA
I just win again, then win again like Wimbledon, I serve
Yeah, that's…
"Correction: Due to a math error, a story about Elizabeth Warren misstated the ancestry percentage of a potential 10th generation relative. It should be 1/1,024."
FYI 1/,024 = 0.009765625 - Wow i guess i owe her an apology.
So there were two claims, one front and center and one implied.
The Brownshirts claimed that cracker-ass Warren falsely claimed she had Native American heritage from a distant relative. They implied she played up that claim, and benefitted from it in her career and studies at Ivy league schools.
The implied charge was shown to be 100% false when people checked in with her employers and her academic history.
Now there's scientific evidence her story checks out, a distant relative was more likely than not Cherokee.
So, whats your fucking problem Anon. If you have a bone to pick with her, drop the propaganda nonsense and lay it out.
Newsflash: I'm a little black and Mexican and Amazonian Tribesman myself if there's no limit to how far back I can go. In the grand scheme of things, 4,000 generations isn't that many, and boom, that's about the 80,000 years since the neolithic revolution and spread from Africa that nearly all of us...Europeans, Middle Easterners, full blooded Africans, East and South Asians, Australian Aboriginals...everybody, can trace some ancestry to.
There might be a lesson in there about the brotherhood of mankind. There might be a lesson in there about amplifying and exploiting minor ancestral differences to get ahead. There might be a lesson about the finer points of identity politics and grievance mongering in there too.
The lesson I draw from this is that Elizabeth Warren is still a faker and a socialist, no matter if it's 6 or 10 generations back she has to go to prove she's got at least some native blood in her.
And let me be clear...if she actually was a Native American, if she kept the rituals and observances...hell if she had family that did then it wouldn't be an issue. I defy you to find me one Republican who isn't named David Duke or Richard Spenser that would hold it against her. But: She was raised white, lived white, and only adopted a convenient ethnic identity when it suited her career ambitions at an institution that was famously post-modernist and identity politics-driven. And now it turns out she's no more native than the average white person. The Globe can run all the puff-piece-propaganda it wants denying it but they're as agenda-driven as Breitbart is.
I didn't like it when Scott Brown harped on it in 2012, but he was 100% right.
By the time she became well known on the national scene (nominated to head the CFPC, appeared on TV shows talking about financial issues, and later running for Senate) she didn't talk about it. Some of the earlier things have me a bit concerned. My only issue now is getting a strong candidate against Trump in 2020. This settles nothing.
But to counter your counterpoint...I doubt Elizabeth Warren would have been nominated to the CFPC if she hadn't been leading the team drafting the law that created it and I strongly doubt she would have been tapped to write a piece of legislation if she wasn't a tenured professor at Harvard Law. Nothing against the University of Oklahoma or Tennessee or Penn State or Rice or Duke or any of them, but the way this country works is that the very smart and talented people who don't have Ivy, Stanford, or MIT credentials to their names do not get tapped for that kind of work. And she sure looks like she faked her way to it in a way that's qualitatively different from the kind of academic puffery and fakery that people usually use to climb up that ladder.
I'll just keep on living in my fake news echo chamber instead of this mythical place called the "real world" where there is no such thing as office politics or academic fraud or gaming the system.
I will tell...I've met and worked with all sorts of people in my time, including folks who I'm pretty sure were given an extra bump in admissions or hiring preference because of their ethnicity or their gender. Nearly everyone I've had the good fortune to work with, they were friendly, humble, and hardworking people who fit in and contributed to the team. And other than my private grumblings over the philosophy of affirmative action, it really wasn't an issue for me. I wouldn't dream of even hinting of any thoughts like that about specific people because it's an awful thing to say to someone or about someone. Especially in a line of work where mental sharpness is what pays the bills.
My point is...the ethnic chauvinists who wear their DNA on their sleeves and make every effort to let you know about it...those are the exception, not the rule, and those people are conspicuous and off-putting. If that's who Liz Warren was in the early 90s, then shame on her for succumbing to that instinct, shame on her again for doubling down on it when she first ran for the Senate, and shame on her thrice over for trying to pawn off an in-the-noise number like 1/64th as some sort of vindication.
That she used her bloodline to get ahead. Yet every paper that looked into it came away saying that doesn't appear to be the case.
But you keep repeating the talking point. So people feel it must be true, despite the facts. Repeat a lie enough, right?
Because that's what carefully crafted propaganda does. When you're going to hopelessly lose on the merit, you just need to posion the rules you play by.
Because in the end, the ends justify the means. And hell, I don't have time worry about it. Whats the worst that could happen, said the German shopkeep to the Jewish clerk.
The Boston Globe is the only paper that looked into it. And they looked into it by a process that boils down to taking an opinion poll of her colleagues.
These people on the one hand strenuously deny that ethnicity had anything to do with her hiring and promotion, despite there being glimmers of evidence of her being touted (not reported, touted) as a woman color in her department. That's thing one.
Thing two is that these people work for an institution that is in court right now defending the use of ethnicity as a consideration in academic recruitment at the undergraduate level. It really strains credulity that Harvard would go to court to defend ethnic cherrypicking in one of its core mission areas but would not practice it any others.
And thing three is that they're all democrat partisans whose willingness to give ammunition to the other side by affirming that ethnicity was a consideration in Elizabeth Warren's favor would be expected to be low.
That all said: I don't trust the Globe to be objective about something like this and I don't trust their sources to be objective about something like this. And it sure looks like the thing I'm claiming happened actually did.
So, the people who were there, and who were part of the process, and were the only ones who would know how it went...are wrong, because they don't say what you want. And you don't trust the Globe because you don't trust the Globe. And more right wing word salad.
OK you know what?
We all know what, because you never say anything new. Learn a new routine, why don't you?
derived from skepticism sparked by the start difference between what I see reported and what I see with my own two eyes.
You know...skepticism. The philosophical position that demands evidence that is not a mere restatement of the same claim with no new information. The opposite of credulity or gullibility.
The Globe repeating Elizabeth Warren's or Hillary Clinton's or Barack Obama's talking points (sometimes word for word) is not evidence.
My own experience with and observation from the outside of institutions like the ones that Elizabeth Warren worked at is new evidence. And it contradicts what the Globe says.
One thing I've never understood is why right-wingers think so poorly of Native Americans? Using nasty and disparaging slurs against Native Americans at political rallies to promote conservatism... could someone please explain to me the rationale behind this?
Joe Blow applies for a job at a company that desperately wants to improve its image away from being pale, male, and stale. So he legally changed his name to Jose Gutierrez y Blow and checks off 'latino' for his ethnicity. When questions arise, he huffs, puffs, stalls, and decades later trots out a DNA test that says one of his ancestors between six and ten generations back was Amerindian. And the other 98.4% plus is white as the driven snow. Good patriotic German snow. Would that reflect well on Jose's character? Does your answer have anything to do with your feelings toward the particular ethnicity Joe suddenly embraced as his own?
is clever and funny, even though I believe the whole Fauxcahontas kerfuffle is manufactured right-wing runny bullshit that doesn't stand up to the tiniest factual scrutiny.
How utterly unsurprising that now that there's some science behind Liz's story -- which was always about tales her parents told her, not certainty, the way tens of thousands of Oklahomans proudly profess native ancestry based on family lore, just as I was told I have some, was proud of it, and had no reason to ever disbelieve it -- they're huffing and puffing with painfully ignorant interpretations of how genetic testing works.
Hint: if Howie Carr recycles 200 columns out of it, it's a vacuum pretending desperately to be solid substance. Any time conservatives work that hard to fluff up a tissue of lies into a roll of Charmin, you know they're scared. (I'm not impressed with Liz as a Presidential candidate so far, but she can utter two sentences in a row without lying, unlike our ridiculous used-car-salesman of a President.) Trump gives his increasingly cult-like followers the license to deny reality: "I never said that thing about the million dollars that I'm on video saying." Pathetic, but it works on Trumpies. How does one have a rational political discussion with someone who believes that 2+2=5, even after you've shown them the four matchsticks?
In the state of Massachussetts
Nutty leftist Massachusetts
Stood the wigwam of Liz Warren
Whacko Moonbat 'Lizbeth Warren
Should you ask me, Whence this slander?
Whence the libel and the bullshit?
I should answer, I should tell you
From the smugness of her diction
From the crazy in her tweeting,
And the fraction of her kinfolk,
That are really European
I was born under socialism. I was raised by people who lived their whole lives under socialism. I can tell you the exact dimensions, the lot numbers, and the name of the guy who runs the kiln that produces the good intentions that pave that particular road to hell.
[quote] The classes, known as socialist school, included readings by Karl Marx and articles in Jacobin, a popular new socialist magazine. Ms. Reade has become a class instructor and vice chairwoman at the East Bay chapter, which has about 1,000 members.[/quote]
If you're studying Marx with the intention of putting his theories into practice...you're in the same company as a whole lot of people, some of whom refer to themselves as communists, some as socialists. Some as Bolivarians.
Comments
Let’s do some math. 1/32 = 3
By Murkin
Mon, 10/15/2018 - 10:29am
Let’s do some math. 1/32 = 3.125% and 1/512 = 0.1953125%. I still call bullshit.
Bullshit on what?
By merlinmurph
Mon, 10/15/2018 - 10:48am
All she claimed was that ancestors x generations back were Native, and this test shows that.
I'm not even a huge Liz fan and I find her annoying anytime I see her on TV. I like her as a senator but do not want her as a president. She is far more effective as a senator.
The tests don't show this
By bosguy22
Mon, 10/15/2018 - 11:17am
The test shows she possibly is 1/52nd to 1/1024th Mexican or South American.
1. Warren still cannot point to any specific ancestor who was Native American. 2. Warren never lived as a Native American or associated with Native Americans.
3. Warren didn't claim to be Native American until her late 30s.
4. Warren only used alleged Native American status for employment purposes, and stopped claiming that status when she got tenure at Harvard Law School.
5. There remains zero evidence Warren was a descendant of the Cherokee or Delaware tribes.
6. The DNA test does not prove Warren is Native American, at most there is “strong evidence” of a single ancestor dating back 6-10 generations, based on analysis that compares Warren’s DNA to numerous groups, including non-Native American groups.
Obviously this isn't going to change anyone's opinion of Warren, nor does it say anything about her ability to be a Senator/Presidential Candidate, but pretending that she has been 100% honest about this issue is absurd.
Actually, she can point to a specific ancestor
By anon
Mon, 10/15/2018 - 12:44pm
You haven't bothered reading because you are too ignorant to grasp
Yes,
By whyaduck
Mon, 10/15/2018 - 1:04pm
DNA tests are not perfect. What it does show is that she has an ancestor that was Native American, which shows that she was telling what she knew to be true. So, yes, she was being 100% honest.
So your #1, #2, #3, #5 and #6 are straw men. #4 is debatable.
Why don't you do so analysis on President Pussy Pant's verifiable false and misleading claims since he took office? You have close to 5,000 to choose from.
It doesn't show that at all
By bosguy22
Mon, 10/15/2018 - 1:10pm
Your comments couldn't be more wrong. DNA tests aren't just "not perfect", they aren't accepted by Cherokee nation to prove membership.
Regardless, this test DID NOT compare her DNA to that of ANY Native American, it compared it to South American DNA, and the assumption was made that those ancestors would have moved into the US at some point.
The test also shows that she had less "Native American" DNA than the average white American.
So yes, she was being 100% honest...sure. 10 generations of "family lore". This possible Native American ancestor was around before the Revolutionary War, and possibly before Manhattan was purchased from the Dutch, but hey, I'm sure her family kept very detailed notes on their lineage....they just lost the page that actually stated who among them was actually Cherokee.v
Ten generations
By anon
Mon, 10/15/2018 - 1:17pm
200 years at most
10 generations
By bosguy22
Mon, 10/15/2018 - 3:23pm
Ok, sure...
A generation is "all of the people born and living at about the same time, regarded collectively". It can also be described as, "the average period, generally considered to be about thirty years, during which children are born and grow up, become adults, and begin to have children of their own".
Ooops, another correction from the Boston Globe. She's now between 1/64th and 1/1,024th Native American.....
Might as well
By Sock_Puppet
Tue, 10/16/2018 - 12:53pm
Be precise.
That's 25.5 years.
https://isogg.org/wiki/How_long_is_a_generation%3F...
Take off your MAGA hat
By lbb
Mon, 10/15/2018 - 1:42pm
Good thing she wasn't trying to get accepted as a member by the Cherokee nation. Now, take off your MAGAt hat, it's clearly on too tight.
Your math is ignorant
By anon
Mon, 10/15/2018 - 12:49pm
Genetics are probablistic in nature. Your numbers look nice as abstract arithmetic, but not reflect heritability patterns observed for humans and how we pass along genetic info.
I call bullshit on your math.
From Today's NYT
By anon
Mon, 10/15/2018 - 1:15pm
Specifically discussing how the case of Dawn Beaudoin led investigators to start searching genetic databases to identify some serial killers.
Scroll down to "Step 2": https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/10/15/sci...
The Herald didn’t report
By Mark-
Mon, 10/15/2018 - 10:35am
The actual Boston Herald newspaper couldn’t even find one spare inch of space for this story today.
You’d think, after all the whining Howie has done about “Pocahontas,” this story would be worth a spot in the Herald. But Joe “oh, please” Fitzgerald got half a page of space to complain about hypocrisy...from liberals.
Um,
By Dave
Mon, 10/15/2018 - 10:49am
http://www.bostonherald.com/
Print still matters, my friend
By Waquiot
Mon, 10/15/2018 - 11:48am
Print readers are the ones that pay the bills for both the Globe and the Herald.
Viewing the layout of a physical newspaper is a lesson in what the publisher thinks matters. Silly little news websites (this one notwithstanding, which is a testament to Adam's organizational skills) are about what those who click on stories think matter. Exhibit #1- the decline of boston.com.
My bet is that the Herald will have a few columns on it, including one by Howie Carr. They will be as dismissive of the report as most of the more conservative commenters here are. I also predict that if Warren somehow is the frontrunner in 2020, Trump will still hammer her on the issue and it will hurt her bad. I mean, he tied Ted Cruz' dad to the Kennedy assassination. Doing things like that is Trump's main political skill. And before you scoff at that, remember that he is currently President of the United States.
How is the Herald supposed to
By Dave
Mon, 10/15/2018 - 11:54am
How is the Herald supposed to get an article in today's print paper that refers to and coincides with something reported in today's Globe?
Third edition
By Mark-
Mon, 10/15/2018 - 12:30pm
Some of the Herald’s papers go to press after the early edition of The Globe. Although since they moved their printing to Providence, they can’t seem to get final scores into the paper I receive, even though I live right in Boston.
I also checked their final edition PDF which did have late scores, full Red Sox and Patriots stories, but not one word about Elizabeth Warren’s DNA.
Once again, a print paper can
By Dave
Tue, 10/16/2018 - 1:03pm
Once again, a print paper can't be expected to have a print article that refers to a competing paper's alleged journalism until paper #2 has actually published something.
But the next day...
[img]http://www.bostonherald.com/sites/default/files/st...
And cover it they did
By Waquiot
Tue, 10/16/2018 - 5:38pm
They had SIX columnists in addition to one regular reporter writing two articles on the issue. So in case you thought the Herald didn't have anyone working for them anymore, there's proof they do (except that I believe Carr and Graham are technically no longer employees.)
That's as many writers as the Globe dedicated to their spotlight series on Aaron Hernandez' sex life this week.
I got, I got, I got, I got
By anon
Fri, 10/19/2018 - 11:11am
DNA
I got, I got, I got, I got
Loyalty, got royalty inside my DNA
Cocaine quarter piece, got war and peace inside my DNA
I got power, poison, pain and joy inside my DNA
I got hustle though, ambition, flow, inside my DNA
I was born like this, since one like this
Immaculate conception
I transform like this, perform like this
Was Yeshua's new weapon
I don’t contemplate, I meditate, then off your fucking head
This that put-the-kids-to-bed
This that I got, I got, I got, I got
Realness, I just kill shit 'cause it's in my DNA
I got millions, I got riches buildin’ in my DNA
I got dark, I got evil, that rot inside my DNA
I got off, I got troublesome, heart inside my DNA
I just win again, then win again like Wimbledon, I serve
Yeah, that's…
My earlier point being
By Waquiot
Mon, 10/15/2018 - 2:16pm
This is the Boston Globe's story, not the Herald's.
Why Adam is passing it off as the Herald's story is beyond me.
Really Adam?
By anon
Mon, 10/15/2018 - 12:28pm
Bottom of Globe article:
"Correction: Due to a math error, a story about Elizabeth Warren misstated the ancestry percentage of a potential 10th generation relative. It should be 1/1,024."
FYI 1/,024 = 0.009765625 - Wow i guess i owe her an apology.
What's your fucking problem?
By anon²
Mon, 10/15/2018 - 1:33pm
So there were two claims, one front and center and one implied.
The Brownshirts claimed that cracker-ass Warren falsely claimed she had Native American heritage from a distant relative. They implied she played up that claim, and benefitted from it in her career and studies at Ivy league schools.
The implied charge was shown to be 100% false when people checked in with her employers and her academic history.
Now there's scientific evidence her story checks out, a distant relative was more likely than not Cherokee.
So, whats your fucking problem Anon. If you have a bone to pick with her, drop the propaganda nonsense and lay it out.
OK you know what?
By Roman
Mon, 10/15/2018 - 2:52pm
Newsflash: I'm a little black and Mexican and Amazonian Tribesman myself if there's no limit to how far back I can go. In the grand scheme of things, 4,000 generations isn't that many, and boom, that's about the 80,000 years since the neolithic revolution and spread from Africa that nearly all of us...Europeans, Middle Easterners, full blooded Africans, East and South Asians, Australian Aboriginals...everybody, can trace some ancestry to.
There might be a lesson in there about the brotherhood of mankind. There might be a lesson in there about amplifying and exploiting minor ancestral differences to get ahead. There might be a lesson about the finer points of identity politics and grievance mongering in there too.
The lesson I draw from this is that Elizabeth Warren is still a faker and a socialist, no matter if it's 6 or 10 generations back she has to go to prove she's got at least some native blood in her.
And let me be clear...if she actually was a Native American, if she kept the rituals and observances...hell if she had family that did then it wouldn't be an issue. I defy you to find me one Republican who isn't named David Duke or Richard Spenser that would hold it against her. But: She was raised white, lived white, and only adopted a convenient ethnic identity when it suited her career ambitions at an institution that was famously post-modernist and identity politics-driven. And now it turns out she's no more native than the average white person. The Globe can run all the puff-piece-propaganda it wants denying it but they're as agenda-driven as Breitbart is.
I didn't like it when Scott Brown harped on it in 2012, but he was 100% right.
But here's the counterpoint
By Waquiot
Mon, 10/15/2018 - 3:03pm
By the time she became well known on the national scene (nominated to head the CFPC, appeared on TV shows talking about financial issues, and later running for Senate) she didn't talk about it. Some of the earlier things have me a bit concerned. My only issue now is getting a strong candidate against Trump in 2020. This settles nothing.
You're right, it doesn't move the needle at all
By Roman
Mon, 10/15/2018 - 3:14pm
But to counter your counterpoint...I doubt Elizabeth Warren would have been nominated to the CFPC if she hadn't been leading the team drafting the law that created it and I strongly doubt she would have been tapped to write a piece of legislation if she wasn't a tenured professor at Harvard Law. Nothing against the University of Oklahoma or Tennessee or Penn State or Rice or Duke or any of them, but the way this country works is that the very smart and talented people who don't have Ivy, Stanford, or MIT credentials to their names do not get tapped for that kind of work. And she sure looks like she faked her way to it in a way that's qualitatively different from the kind of academic puffery and fakery that people usually use to climb up that ladder.
It only looks that way
By Sock_Puppet
Mon, 10/15/2018 - 3:32pm
To you and other wing nuts. Nobody ever thought reality could reach you.
OK sure, what do I know
By Roman
Mon, 10/15/2018 - 3:52pm
I'll just keep on living in my fake news echo chamber instead of this mythical place called the "real world" where there is no such thing as office politics or academic fraud or gaming the system.
I will tell...I've met and worked with all sorts of people in my time, including folks who I'm pretty sure were given an extra bump in admissions or hiring preference because of their ethnicity or their gender. Nearly everyone I've had the good fortune to work with, they were friendly, humble, and hardworking people who fit in and contributed to the team. And other than my private grumblings over the philosophy of affirmative action, it really wasn't an issue for me. I wouldn't dream of even hinting of any thoughts like that about specific people because it's an awful thing to say to someone or about someone. Especially in a line of work where mental sharpness is what pays the bills.
My point is...the ethnic chauvinists who wear their DNA on their sleeves and make every effort to let you know about it...those are the exception, not the rule, and those people are conspicuous and off-putting. If that's who Liz Warren was in the early 90s, then shame on her for succumbing to that instinct, shame on her again for doubling down on it when she first ran for the Senate, and shame on her thrice over for trying to pawn off an in-the-noise number like 1/64th as some sort of vindication.
You keep making a claim
By anon²
Mon, 10/15/2018 - 4:22pm
That she used her bloodline to get ahead. Yet every paper that looked into it came away saying that doesn't appear to be the case.
But you keep repeating the talking point. So people feel it must be true, despite the facts. Repeat a lie enough, right?
Because that's what carefully crafted propaganda does. When you're going to hopelessly lose on the merit, you just need to posion the rules you play by.
Because in the end, the ends justify the means. And hell, I don't have time worry about it. Whats the worst that could happen, said the German shopkeep to the Jewish clerk.
As far as I am aware
By Roman
Mon, 10/15/2018 - 4:38pm
The Boston Globe is the only paper that looked into it. And they looked into it by a process that boils down to taking an opinion poll of her colleagues.
These people on the one hand strenuously deny that ethnicity had anything to do with her hiring and promotion, despite there being glimmers of evidence of her being touted (not reported, touted) as a woman color in her department. That's thing one.
Thing two is that these people work for an institution that is in court right now defending the use of ethnicity as a consideration in academic recruitment at the undergraduate level. It really strains credulity that Harvard would go to court to defend ethnic cherrypicking in one of its core mission areas but would not practice it any others.
And thing three is that they're all democrat partisans whose willingness to give ammunition to the other side by affirming that ethnicity was a consideration in Elizabeth Warren's favor would be expected to be low.
That all said: I don't trust the Globe to be objective about something like this and I don't trust their sources to be objective about something like this. And it sure looks like the thing I'm claiming happened actually did.
That's very nice circular logic
By lbb
Mon, 10/15/2018 - 10:22pm
So, the people who were there, and who were part of the process, and were the only ones who would know how it went...are wrong, because they don't say what you want. And you don't trust the Globe because you don't trust the Globe. And more right wing word salad.
We all know what, because you never say anything new. Learn a new routine, why don't you?
It's not circular reasoning, it's an accuasation
By Roman
Tue, 10/16/2018 - 1:07pm
derived from skepticism sparked by the start difference between what I see reported and what I see with my own two eyes.
You know...skepticism. The philosophical position that demands evidence that is not a mere restatement of the same claim with no new information. The opposite of credulity or gullibility.
The Globe repeating Elizabeth Warren's or Hillary Clinton's or Barack Obama's talking points (sometimes word for word) is not evidence.
My own experience with and observation from the outside of institutions like the ones that Elizabeth Warren worked at is new evidence. And it contradicts what the Globe says.
And I'm not stupid.
You must be a ton of fun at
By Beanzzz
Tue, 10/16/2018 - 1:15pm
You must be a ton of fun at parties.
One thing I've never
By anon
Mon, 10/15/2018 - 6:26pm
One thing I've never understood is why right-wingers think so poorly of Native Americans? Using nasty and disparaging slurs against Native Americans at political rallies to promote conservatism... could someone please explain to me the rationale behind this?
Let me give you an example
By Roman
Tue, 10/16/2018 - 12:01am
Joe Blow applies for a job at a company that desperately wants to improve its image away from being pale, male, and stale. So he legally changed his name to Jose Gutierrez y Blow and checks off 'latino' for his ethnicity. When questions arise, he huffs, puffs, stalls, and decades later trots out a DNA test that says one of his ancestors between six and ten generations back was Amerindian. And the other 98.4% plus is white as the driven snow. Good patriotic German snow. Would that reflect well on Jose's character? Does your answer have anything to do with your feelings toward the particular ethnicity Joe suddenly embraced as his own?
Warren
By capecoddah
Mon, 10/15/2018 - 7:49pm
Warren 1/2020
Warren/O'Rourke 2020
By SwirlyGrrl
Mon, 10/15/2018 - 10:32pm
Warren/O'Rourke 2020
Liz and Beto! Oh Yeah!
Princess Paleface and El
By Dave
Tue, 10/16/2018 - 12:40pm
Princess Paleface and El Blotto
I think Warren may have
By anon
Mon, 10/15/2018 - 10:32pm
I think Warren may have pulled a Coakley.
Stolen Pallor
By Dave
Mon, 10/15/2018 - 11:48pm
Stolen Pallor
Now *that* wisecrack
By MC Slim JB
Tue, 10/16/2018 - 12:40am
is clever and funny, even though I believe the whole Fauxcahontas kerfuffle is manufactured right-wing runny bullshit that doesn't stand up to the tiniest factual scrutiny.
How utterly unsurprising that now that there's some science behind Liz's story -- which was always about tales her parents told her, not certainty, the way tens of thousands of Oklahomans proudly profess native ancestry based on family lore, just as I was told I have some, was proud of it, and had no reason to ever disbelieve it -- they're huffing and puffing with painfully ignorant interpretations of how genetic testing works.
Hint: if Howie Carr recycles 200 columns out of it, it's a vacuum pretending desperately to be solid substance. Any time conservatives work that hard to fluff up a tissue of lies into a roll of Charmin, you know they're scared. (I'm not impressed with Liz as a Presidential candidate so far, but she can utter two sentences in a row without lying, unlike our ridiculous used-car-salesman of a President.) Trump gives his increasingly cult-like followers the license to deny reality: "I never said that thing about the million dollars that I'm on video saying." Pathetic, but it works on Trumpies. How does one have a rational political discussion with someone who believes that 2+2=5, even after you've shown them the four matchsticks?
With apologies to Longfellow and Howie Carr
By Roman
Tue, 10/16/2018 - 5:30pm
In the state of Massachussetts
Nutty leftist Massachusetts
Stood the wigwam of Liz Warren
Whacko Moonbat 'Lizbeth Warren
Should you ask me, Whence this slander?
Whence the libel and the bullshit?
I should answer, I should tell you
From the smugness of her diction
From the crazy in her tweeting,
And the fraction of her kinfolk,
That are really European
I'd suggest "Dances-With-Socialism"
By Roman
Tue, 10/16/2018 - 10:58am
for a new moniker.
Her war-whoop could be "Mao-Mao-Mao-Mao-Mao!"
It has the benefit of tweaking the noses of socialists (which is always good) and being potentially offensive to even more people than "Fauxcahontas."
Really?
By SwirlyGrrl
Tue, 10/16/2018 - 11:31am
Must be why Charlie Baker gets along with her so well - the Socialism.
I suggest you look up what that word is and means. The reality might surprise you.
Swirly dear
By Roman
Tue, 10/16/2018 - 12:02pm
I was born under socialism. I was raised by people who lived their whole lives under socialism. I can tell you the exact dimensions, the lot numbers, and the name of the guy who runs the kiln that produces the good intentions that pave that particular road to hell.
Socialism isn't communism.
By SwirlyGrrl
Tue, 10/16/2018 - 12:38pm
Socialism isn't communism.
Try again hon.
I'm tryin' real hard
By Roman
Tue, 10/16/2018 - 1:00pm
But I'm not seeing the imaginary distinction you're trying to get me to see.
Neither does the DSA. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/20/us/dsa-socialis...
[quote] The classes, known as socialist school, included readings by Karl Marx and articles in Jacobin, a popular new socialist magazine. Ms. Reade has become a class instructor and vice chairwoman at the East Bay chapter, which has about 1,000 members.[/quote]
If you're studying Marx with the intention of putting his theories into practice...you're in the same company as a whole lot of people, some of whom refer to themselves as communists, some as socialists. Some as Bolivarians.
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