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Police: Officers looking for Nazi-poster hangers arrest three out of towners in masks with spray paint
By adamg on Sat, 02/16/2019 - 8:29pm
Boston Police report arresting three out-of-towners in Maverick Square while looking for whoever put up those white-supremacist posters that went up a couple days ago in East Boston.
WFXT reports a police source told it the three were responsible for the posters.
Police say officers patrolling Maverick Square last night because of the posters:
Observed a group of males wearing face masks [on Winthrop Street]. Officers approached the group, one of which had been carrying a can of spray paint, in an attempt to speak with them. While speaking with one of the members of the group, who was extremely uncooperative, the male removed his wallet from his pocket. However, when officers reached to obtain what they thought would be the male’s identification card, they were met by the male slapping the officer’s hand away. Officers placed the male under arrest. Officers subsequently arrested two additional members of the group.
Matthew Wolf, 26, of Lowell, was charged with assault and battery on a police officer, police say. Tylar Larson, 18, of Rochester, NY, and Christopher Hood, 20, of Malden, were both charged with possession of a dangerous weapon. Police did not specify the type of weapon. They were not charged in connection with the posters.
Innocent, etc.
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Comments
What did these posters say?
All I can read is something about illegal aliens being criminals and call DHS if you see anything.
What does the bottom say?
While many may disagree with the sentiment expressed - why are the police out looking for people posting posters? What is the crime?
Background
Southern Poverty Law Center on the group in question. You can probably skip the first few paragraphs on the group's origins to get to the part about what they're doing to bring about a white ethno-state.
The crime
Yes, they have a right under the First Amendment to espouse views that expose them as racist assholes. However, posting flyers on property - in this case utility poles - without the owners consistent, is illegal, even if, I suspect, the owner is the city (since utility poles are not generally considered a "public forum" such as a park and so the city can decide what they are used for).
They had masks on, were
They had masks on, were disturbing the peace, one assaulted an officer when handing over an ID and they had illegal weapons. I don’t think they were arrested just bc of the posters.
Not the same people
I don't think those were the guys putting up the posters.
And not remotely defending what they are saying - but staunchly defending their right to say it - as long as they don't cross certain lines.
And not buying the "but it was on a telephone pole" ruse - do the cops go after all the band posters, garage sales and everything else with equal vigor?
When you start selectively enforcing the laws based on your opinion of what people are saying (as long as what they are saying doesn't violate the law) - you are well on your way down a slippery slope.
Says the man who loves graffitti
Where do you live? Lets go put some free speech on the outside walls and all over the front door and lobby.
I know
A big AOC poster on his front door!
Really?
Yeah, you're right - BPD doesn't go after people slapping up band flyers - although they certainly would if they caught them in the act.
The police were patrolling a neighborhood that probably has the city's highest percentage of immigrants the night after somebody - whether these guys or not - put up posters designed to induce fear in that community. Good for BPD, that's some good community policing.
And these guys weren't charged with anything having to do with the posters. They were charged with going after cops who had stopped to question them.
I'm not a lawyer, but I'm going to suggest that the cops had a good legal reason to talk to them, at least based on the BPD account: Three guys in masks at night holding a can of spray paint in an area that could be considered high crime (one of the criteria for determining probable cause). Then, and again, this is based on only one side of the story, they committed potential felonies by attacking a cop (yes, granted, a slap, not something more serious, but that's still A&B).
No problem with this
Handled these guys perfectly.
More concerned about the police out selectively "hunting" for people based on their apparently legal message, not their actions. Per my post below, it would be equally bad if the opposite occurred (although supporting illegal activity may not be protected speech-I'll leave that to the lawyers).
Cool cool
Can I put huge swastika on the door of the Model Railroad Club?
Did you see any swastikas on this material?
Don't be an ass and put words in my mouth.
Nobody said that wpuld be cool.
Except you.
They literally say "Blood and Soil" on them
Is that Nazi enough for you? Or is anything ok just as long as they're clever enough to leave off the swastika?
So
I have no idea what that means. Nor do I see it rising to any level of unprotected speech.
Well, read a newspaper sometime
Ignorance isn't a good defense unless you're as cynical as Sen Collins or any other 'moderate' Republican who claims to not understand the language of white hatred which runs rampant through our society these days. But hey, as long as your taxes don't go up, I guess you don't really care right?
SPLC Hate Group
Adam already linked to it - you don't even have to google.
Do you ever read your own links
Or the ones you say to read - I still don't see the words blood and soil - and I can't imagine more than 1% of the country knows the meaning or origin of that (although apparently the NYT opinion page does cover it a lot if you like reading stuff about neo-nazis - not high on my personal list. I prefer to mostly ignore them - although I did attend the Common counter protest when they were at the Parkman bandstand.
Do you pay attention to anything that isn't Ayn Random
Seriously dude. You. are. really. cornered. in, your. stupid. tree. here.
Don't know what your problem is, but you might want to borrow some exlax from another poster here who tends to argue himself into multiple stupidholes using EPIC SEMANTICS and then suffers from it while claiming victory on technical grounds that boggle the rational mind.
Gee, if only someone had included a link in their post
n/a
"I have no idea"
Then maybe you should take the trouble to study up on some common Nazi slogans (like, what they said at Charlottesville) before you go around defending them so vigorously.
Nobody is defending them
I am defending their right to say whatever the hell they want as long as it is protected speech.
Now I'll repeat my question - what was on those posters that crossed the line into unprotected speech?
Or do you think the jackboots should be out hunting people posting any kind of posters or just the ones you don't like/agree with. My guess is the latter - until our Dear Leader goes out hunting people posting things you happen to agree with - then that would be bad.
Act your age
Your question has been answered multiple times.
Try that in a court of law
Good luck - you'll lose. this is not Europe (where that would likely not be allowed in many places - including and perhaps especially Germany.
Again - these people are abhorrent -but the only line I see them crossing legally is posting crap on telephone poles and if you want to uniformly go after what they are doing, not what they are saying, you have a case. That's not what happened here - the city put out a patrol to track down people espousing a certain point of view. Reprehensible as that view may be - they are within their rights and the city is overstepping (and possibly exposing itself to a lawsuit) if they are targeting people exercising their rights.
You can fix it - just work on getting the Constitution amended and you are all set.
Maybe
Then maybe you should keep your fucking mouth shut, for fuck's sake.
Why
It's not exactly a commonly known term AND it's also protected speech.
Can't wait until some progressive goes out and does EXACTLY the same thing and people start clamoring for the ACLU to get involved. You are one more to a growing list of people that has completely failed to demonstrate how anything on those posters is NOT protected speech, just making emotional arguments against the first amendment. Nobody is saying these are good people or that these are doctrines modern Americans should endorse. However, if people want to demonstrate their jack-assedness and associate with other jack-assedness individuals - that is their right. And you can't make an argument otherwise (other than people shouldn't post crap on telephone poles - but that was never what this was about)
Your ignorance is no excuse,
Your ignorance is no excuse, and nothing to brag about either.
So to you...
Being well-versed in neo-Nazi sloganeering is more important than a working knowledge of the First Amendment?
Talk about ignorance being no excuse.
If the Model Railroad Club
If the Model Railroad Club had for years tacitly allowed everyone and anyone to post flyers on their door, then yes, you can put a huge swastika, cross, AOL free trial CD, pair of googly eyes, Yankees logo, or Mark Walhberg movie poster on the door without fear of being charged with "trespassing" or anything like that.
No, you can't
It's up to the owner of the property to decide what goes up on their property. A model-railroad club is not the government and can decide to, tacitly or otherwise, decide to let everybody post anything - but then draw the line at Nazi propaganda.
Ideally, they would have some formal policy that states what is or isn't allowed, which is how the MBTA was able to get courts to agree it had the right to bar racists from putting anti-Palestinian screeds on ads on T property - they had a written policy to exclude ads that disparages specific groups of people - but if you were stupid enough to sue a model-train club for tearing your Nazi poster off their door, well, say goodbye to your lawyer's fees (because your lawyer is going to want his or her money upfront).
Yes, you can
The key question is the police role. Of course the Model Railroad people themselves can remove posters from their own door at will, but can they compel police involvement because they disagree with a poster? I wouldn't think so.
Using your MBTA analogy, the MBTA cannot press charges against a group that merely submits an application for an anti-something sign. The MBTA can only reject the application.
Are you kidding?
You need to google "pretextual search". And then you need to decide if you're going to also "defend to the death" the right of people who are simply going about their lives, or if you want to blather on about the rights of Nazis to post Nazi propaganda and do nothing about all the people that police "selectively hunt" for based on their race, age, gender, because they're driving an older car, etc.
1979 Called
Not to change the subject, but who are these people "putting up band flyers" in 2019? We used to do that in 1979 in the golden age of the local Boston music scene, and long before the internet and social media. There are other methods now. Oh, and yes, sticking up flyers was illegal even back then and we used to hear about it occasionally.
From Boston to Burlington...
If the police see someone walking around in the middle of the night with spray paint, a court will say the police have enough reason to stop them and question them. I don't think the high crime area is even an issue here.
The crime is assault and
The crime is assault and battery on a police officer. Which the new DA doesn’t want enforced except when it’s convinient to her? Maybe resisting arrest and ABPO should stay illegal no matter who is doing it, regardless of their background and politics views.
(Also fuck these racist assholes).
Man, it's so easy to make baseless shit up
Please find me a citation that shows Rollins ever said anything about not prosecuting assault-and-battery cases. Here, I'll make it easy for you: Look at the list the Herald published. You can't even read between the lines and come up with that.
List of charges to be decline.
https://rollins4da.com/policy/charges-to-be-declined/
Just picking the ones that seem related:
Trespassing
Disorderly conduct
Disturbing the peace
Wanton or malicious destruction of property
A stand alone resisting arrest charge, i.e. cases where a person is charged with resisting arrest and that is the only charge
And?
That's basically the same list the Herald published. Again, says nothing about assault and battery.
The description of the
The description of the assault is not substantially different than what resisting arrest would entail.
You can quit clutching those pearls, Steve
Most civilized folk don’t find much in common with Nazis. Most remember that their parents and grandparents spent five years and five trillion dollars punching Nazis square in the face, and don’t make dumb arguments about the first amendment when it’s clear to everyone involved that we’re talking about white nationalist scum like this. Maybe you can use this as a learning experience, in the hopes of not being yourself branded as in league with these assholes and suffering any associated face-punching
Don't own any pearls
And technically this is likely illegal by posting things on private property. But you'd be equally up in arms if someone in say Texas started hunting down poster posters in because the posters were encouraging sanctuary to undocumented immigrants. In fact, as abhorrent as these people may be, these posters seem to be encouraging civic action to report people breaking the law. Encouraging sanctuary promotes breaking the law, but yet most on this thread would be appalled if the police went on a midnight hunt for those people.
Don't care how much you hate the speech or the person speaking it, this is stepping into the realm of "thought" police based on what I can see on this poster.
And for the record, glad the cops nailed these guys even if they had nothing to do with the posters.
One more time
These guys were not charged with, and were not questioned because of, putting up flyers. They were questioned because they were wearing masks at night. They were charged with carrying weapons and assaulting a cop. You're arguing so strenuously against something that is irrelevant to the case. The cops say they were the ones who put up the fliers, but that's not why they were arrested. Stop wasting our time arguing for their freedom of speech; it's not being attacked.
One last time
"Police say officers patrolling Maverick Square last night because of the posters"
Not saying I like or agree with the message or the methodology. However, it is dangerous when the government starts selectively enforcing rules because they don't like the message.
You sound disingenuous to me.
"While on directed patrol in the area of the above-mentioned location due to recent reports of a group causing a disturbance while hanging posters which were upsetting some of the residents..."
So is it your position that a group causing a disturbance should not be a matter of concern to the police, or that posters which upset residents should not be a matter of concern to the police?
What's your proof for your assertion that this represents selective enforcement of rules? Can you point to another group that was causing a disturbance and upsetting residents that the police just ignored while they were walking around in disguise with implements of destruction?
Should I repeat the post?
I have no problem with anything the cops did EXCEPT according to Adam's original post they were there specifically because of WHAT people were saying, not how they were saying it. And based on the picture, the speech was 100% in bounds.
Different story if they are libeling, slandering, yelling fire in a theater or hate speech. "Report illegal activity" is not hate speech.
Convoluted logic twist
Putting up racist posters is hate speech - which is not welcome even under the guise of free speech.
Tell me
What was racist on these particular posters and I'll agree with you. A bit hard to read, but from.all I can see it says call homeland security if you know of someone breaking immigration laws.
How is that racist?
Quick Question
Will you be going to the theater soon?
Someone will meet you there and start shouting "FIRE".
They will be depending on you for constitutional backup and defense!
Again - do you read?
That's exactly the point I've been making - based on what I've seen on the posters, it's protected speech. Yelling fire in a theater is not.
In the meantime - tell me what's on those posters that's NOT protected speech.
Give it up
"fire in a crowded theater" did not pertain to LITERAL yelling of "fire" - it was a metaphor by example of how freedom of speech was NOT without some constraints when it came to violent yammering like "blood and soil" traffics in.
You go any further and you might turn that hole into a volcano.
Again
Tell me specifically what is on those posters that violates the limits of the first amendment?
I don't support these people in any way - but as long as they don't cross the line of protected speech, they can say what they want. that's the way it works in this country if you hadn't noticed. Wander down the Freedom Trail if you need a few reminders of how that came to be.
"Blood and Soil" is a nazi slogan
This was patriot front an open Neo-Nazi organization whose website is literally called blood and soil fuck this bullshit.
Lowell, Rochester and Malden.
Lowell, Rochester and Malden. Why are these out of towners targeting East Boston? I could be wrong, but I bet there were any number of people jumping to conclusions that it was local residents. Left to our own devices, we're pretty peaceful here.
Yeesh
I'm not from East Boston, but I know a few people from there and none of them were thinking it was local people.
Seems to be a pretty much a national thing
No clue how they picked what to target or where they recruited people, but from their twitter feed you can see East Boston is far from alone.
https://twitter.com/patriotfront2?lang=en
About 4 miles
It is about 4 miles from Malden to East Boston.
Nope
I don't think anyone who's ever lived in Boston and dealt with suburbanites who treat the city like it's their movie set would ever think it was someone local.
meetup should
cancel their incel group
also
they are nazis (yeah they deserve a day in court and what not) because nazis always slap at first when they are relatively content on trump's propaganda man-tit milk. it's when they get upsetties that the truncheon comes out on your neck.
they are broken and must be behind bars. let some people who got locked up on weed charges go, and put these guys in there for long term.
"wearing face masks"
I'm curious about the face masks. Outside Halloween, I've never seen three people walking around Boston wearing face masks, holding a can of spray paint.
MGL 266 26B
According to the above Massachusetts law not only can they be arrested for the posters they can also have their drivers license suspended which is more punishment than they will receive for slapping a cop.
Well, case dismissed.
"Man, it's so easy to make baseless shit up"-- AG.
Proving AG right...anon poster.
It's 126B.
It's 126B.
Did these police have body cams?
The description of the assault sounds flimsy. Who knows, maybe it is more substantial on video.
No body cams
BPD doesn't use them. The tried them out in a pilot and have money for the coming fiscal year to buy a lot of them, but right now? No.
"selective enforcement" happens all the time
Cops stop known gang members for turning without a signal, just as an excuse to talk with them. Plus they probably know the driver may not have a license.
Seems pretty common and is part of court testimony. So while we don't normally search for people who hang yard-sale posters, it might make a bit more sense in this case.
The First Amendment angle
The First Amendment angle here is viewpoint discrimination.
These are V.A. Shiva’s people!
How long until Dr. Email (hehe) weighs in on this?
Stop n frisk/talk happens
Stop n frisk/talk happens everyday and I don't hear a peep about it. Cops see you with a mask and spray paint they're going to come up to you. If Im with 2 or 3 friends just outside at night with no mask on and no spray paint 9/10 some police are going to question us, most likely the gang unit. Thats just how it is
I think its very wrong to
I think its very wrong to post these type of posters and I agree it clearly is anti-immigrant, but how is "Keep America American" and "Report Illegal Immigrants" a "white supremacist" and "Nazi" act? Where there anti-Jewish references and messages about whites being superior to other races? It seems fashionable to throw around these labels even though they are not factually accurate in many instances. Maybe "anti-immigrant" or "bigoted" would be more apropos. I would also like to remind people that being an undocumented immigrant is still, by law, illegal. Until that law is changed, then the term "illegal immigrant" is a factual term (although still offensive to some). Not a fan of hurtful rhetoric but being overly pc masks the truth far too often.We should use terminology that actually reflects reality, otherwise we delve into the "fake news" territory and that ushers in mistrust.