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Sportsball team runs up score against opponent; Shaughnessy is outraged, no?
By adamg on Fri, 07/26/2019 - 8:37am
It's ancient history by now, of course, but way back in June, Tomato Can Dan got his knickers in a bunch when an American team ran up the score against an opponent. That's just not fair, and it's so unseemly, he thundered about the US women's soccer team. This morning, Rev. Laura Everett wonders:
So where is the Dan Shaughnessy column this morning about how tasteless and unbecoming of these men it was for the Red Sox players to run up a 19-3 score last night? Is no one thinking of the young boys who watched?
No, of course Dan the Ever Grumpy did not give a moment's thought to that topic. Nor did he even exult in such a lopsided victory over the Damn Yankees - no sir, Dan is no mere homer. Instead, he harrumphed about how boring the game was, about how the Sox and Yankees are killing baseball because their games are too damn long.
Alrighty, then. The cool thing, though, is that Dan managed to score a glorious self own today. Back in June, while directing his steely harrumphs at the soccer team, he penned a series of alleged arguments against the point he was making (that ladies don't sweat and they don't exult) so he could knock each one down. The last of his strawman arguments:
You wouldn’t say that if it was a men’s team!
This morning, Dan proved himself right.
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Comments
It's cool
You're allowed to run up the score in baseball but not soccer. There's no crying in baseball.
/s
TC Dan knows US Soccer is ecilpsing Baseball
Ol' Grumpy is gone in a few years
Different ways to "run it up" in different sports.
Baseball has many written and unwritten codes as to what is fair, dirty, unsportsmanlike, etc, etc. The batter isn't supposed to show up the pitcher when he gets a hit, the pitcher isn't supposed to stare down or talk to the batter after he strikes him out. Teams who are up by more than 10 runs in the late innings shouldn't steal bases. But to keep hitting and scoring runs is never thought of as "running it up", not in the major leagues anyway.
But to be fair, I don't think soccer is a sport where you can criticize a team for running it up either. I'll admit I know less about the unwritten sportsmanship rules of soccer, but to me, anything under 20-0 isn't really that bad. This was the World Cup, where the best should be playing. There are plenty of playoff systems in sports which have blowouts in the early rounds (NCAA d1 basketball, sub d1 levels of college football) so the World Cup should not be an exception.
So I'm not going to fault Shaughnessy for not criticizing the Red Sox, but I don't think he knew enough about soccer to comment on that game either.
Even the WRITTEN rules encourage running it up
I don't know about the unwritten rules either, but it's easier to verify that the actual written rules of the tournament encourage running it up, because margin of victory is a tie breaker in some circumstances.
Goal difference, then goals scored
In the group stage, the net goal difference (scored minus scored against) is an early tiebreaker, and total goals scored is a later one. So yes, running up the score makes sense.
Yea I just actually read Shank's original piece..
And he mentions that it wouldn't really matter anyway (don't know if that is accurate) and that he was also frowning upon choreographed celebrations after the later goals. Then he tried to cover himself by showing how he has criticized men's teams for similar incidents.
So Shank was just being Shank.
"The opera's never over until
"The opera's never over until the fat lady sings" applies to baseball, but not soccer.
In the bottom of the 9th with 2 outs, it's still possible for any baseball team to come from behind and win. In sports where the game ends with a countdown timer, you physically can't score more than once or twice with a few seconds left on the clock.
So in baseball, you have to run up the score to guarantee a win.
Column
Dan was right, these games take forever. He posted the column on the website in the middle of the game so he obviously hit his breaking point when it was 8:15 when the bottom of the second inning started. I feel for people that paid good $$$ to see that nonsense, on a work night too.
How do you fix that?
A 10 run slaughter rule? Not sure fans would be too psyched about the game being over in the 2nd inning.
Not a fan
You can't be a Sox fan. I am quite sure that all the people who are Sox fans, and who paid $$$ to be at that game, enjoyed every minute. The Yankees fans likely did not, but they weren't chained to their seats, or anything, and so could leave any time.
I caught the end of the game. Fans didn't seem angry at all.
The stands were full of people having a good time (those poor people!). No one was, ahem, looking for something to complain about.
I still don't understand the "games are too long!" mantra
You pay a hundred or so dollars to be part of an experience, and then you want LESS of it?
The food here is terrible ...
and the portions are so small!
The USWNT
Celebrated each goal in such an over the top, self-absorbed, spoiled sport way. Anyone upset that the majority is turned off by this poor sportsmanship needs to get over it.
Yea that could be frowned upon I guess...
Quick Story: Back in the day I worked at a bar which would sell tickets to closed circuit TV soccer games. One Sunday Brazil was playing Costa Rica in some Tourney. About 300 Brazilians packed the bar and about 299 didn't order a drink (separate story). Anyway, Brazil won the game 15-0 or something like that but what amazed me is that all 300 Brazilians stayed till the end which I thought was interesting. And every goal they cheered like it was the game winning goal. I always thought the game was over, why aren't people leaving, but then again if this was the Patriots and they were beating Kansas City 50-0 in the 3rd quarter I'm going to watch the whole thing too.
Cool Story Bro I know.
"needs to get over it."
Sounds like you should take your own advice, bud.
What I like about women's
What I like about women's soccer over men's is that when female players are injured, there are no histrionics, over the top writhing in fetal position on the field, or crybaby melodrama. Women soccer players exhibit a toughness and sportsman-like demeanor the men do not. Male soccer players could learn a thing or two from their female counterparts.
"the majority"
"People are saying," says man to the mouse in his pocket.
"BELIEVE HIM"
"You'll see."
lol
Stay losing to 15 year old boys USWNT - You da best! Slay Qween
Sshhhh - you said the quiet part loud!
Remember, you're just complaining about "poor sportsmanship"! The underlying misogyny is supposed to stay as subtext.
If you don't like losing to
If you don't like losing to 15 year old boys, beat 'em on the scoreboard.
I can't imagine thinking this.
Like, it was a scrimmage, and they let them win. You are acting the equivalent of Stephen Miller running onto a track to try to beat a woman running in a race to "prove that men are athletically superior to women."
Not even kidding: https://www.gq.com/story/stephen-miller-once-jumped-into-a-girls-track-m...
That's you right now.
#COPE
#COPE
Pick a line and stick to it
Are you complaining about their sportsmanship, or the quality of their play?
If it's the former, then let's make sure we're complaining equally across all sports and athletes (but let's also be honest and acknowledge this is a totally arbitrary and subjective judgment).
If it's the latter, it's time to dispense with the pretense that this is about sportsmanship, and admit that you've found an excuse to bash a group of people you've decided to dislike for some other reason.
If you don't like losing to
said another way: if you don't like losing 13-0, score more goals
And boom goes the dynamite
The problem was not the US team scoring goals. The rules in the first round encourage it.
The problem was how they acted after they scored their 8th, 9th, 10th, etc. As in, like asses.
Go run the tape and see the Sox players behavior just before and after they cross the plate for runs 8 and up. See if they self-promote. See if they engage with the crowd. I haven't watched it, but my bet is that they didn't -- they celebrated quickly with teammates, and moved on.
show-boating
I believe the original criticism of the Women's World Cup team was not the actual score, but the fact that they were still show-boating and coming up with new goal celebrations after every goal of a very lopsided win.
I didn't watch the Sox game last night, but I would assume that none of the players were showboating or mocking the other team.
Not a Dan Shaughnessy fan by any means, but there is definitely a difference between a lopsided game where one team is showing off, versus a lopsided win where the winning team acts like they've been there before and doesn't do anything to show up the other team.
People are saying
I mean, you're saying, and you're a people, so I guess that counts. Mind you, the USWNT's opponents didn't complain as you are doing, but...
Yeah
I've never seen a grown man point at a sky god to thank him for hitting a ball over a fence in a blowout.
/s
To be fair....
That isn't seen as unsportsmanlike in any baseball situation, nor would it be in soccer I assume.
To be fair...
What's seen as "unsportsmanlike" in any situation in any sport seems to vary based on the sport, team, player, time of day, or anything else that gives old white guys excuses to complain about the behavior of people they already didn't like.
It's a game. They're adults. Let people have fun. If you don't like the other team celebrating, beat 'em on the scoreboard.
Meh.
Football players get criticized all the time for endzone celebrations. NBA players get criticized for staring down players after dunks (sometimes it's encouraged and liked). Hockey goalies get criticized for skating in a straight line to their bench if it is during a period where they have to cross the other teams bench. Tom Brady gets blasted when he talks to the refs or yells at a Dlinemen.
The point is baseball has a pretty standard set of unwritten rules of when "running up the score" happens and it didn't happen last night. To criticize Shank based on this doesn't hit the mark.
sportsmanship is the antithesis of this.
"If you don't like the other team celebrating, beat 'em on the scoreboard."
That's the opposite of sportsmanship.
If a guy hit a homer off
If a guy hit a homer off Pedro in a 12 run blowout and flipped his bat or took his time to admire his homer, I can pretty much guarantee the next guy up would get drilled with a 95 mph fastball. Pointing up to the sky is one thing, showboating is another. It doesn't happen too much in baseball because of retaliation, but it's obnoxious in soccer, and now the NFL is becoming equally ridiculous.
"Act like you've been there before."
Big Dan
He seems like the kid never picked to be on a team so he decided to write about the game to set everyone straight.
Same for most sports journalists
A friend of mine refers to the worst of the sports journalists/columnists as "jock-sniffers"
no sir, Dan is no mere homer.
Hey! That's been Michael Kay's tired schtick for over 30 years! Go work your own side of the street, Shank - find something original to harp on incessantly!!
Dan has an ax to grind - unfortunately, he's been trying to sharpen it with a cheese wheel instead of a whetstone.
I think it is time we remove
I think it is time we remove all barriers between the different sexes and make all sports team unisex. That way we can watch the best athletes at their sports, regardless of gender. It will also remove all the bias of sport writers and pay discrepancies.
Leaving the sportswriters out of it, I was at Fenway
last night, and I was glad they were pouring it on. It's not a good idea to take your foot off the neck of this particular Yankees team. They're the real deal this year -- offense, starting pitching, relievers, defense, depth -- in a way that our Sox are clearly not. That win felt good, but we're still ten games back, and it's hard to imagine Boston closing that gap without finding some more help before the deadline. Kick 'em while they're down, I say.
Pace of play
While Shank may be correct to criticize the general pace of play in Sox-Yankees games, this particular one had 30 hits and 22 runs between the two teams. It doesn't seem unreasonable for that to take 3 hours 28 minutes, a hit every 7 minutes.
... a hit every 7 minutes.
That's how Berry Gordy wanted it.
Comparing
Comparing running it up in World Cup Soccer and MLB just can't be done...they are two different sports with two different standards of what is right and wrong. Baseball has no clock, so you just keep going.
This whole exercise of trying to find misogyny in critics of the USWNT has been silly for a long time...This piece by adamg being just another in a long line of dumb arguments. Seriously, you wait for a lopsided baseball game to try to make your point about Dan S?? Different sports, the analogy doesn't work. Dan S. will and has criticized a men's team for running up the score when its appropriate to do so, not when its not.
As for me, I was appalled at the USWNT team, not by the continued scoring, but the huge celebrations while the Thai team was crying. But that didn't stop me from rooting for them in the final; whatever faults they exhibited in the Thailand game were more than made up for by their great positive qualities.
The celebrations were the thing
And if it was against their arch rival (whoever that would be, maybe Mexico) it would be understandable, but this was against a team playing their first World Cup match. Poor form. Conversely, the Sox "running up the score" against the Yankees this year would be like the Thai ladies celebrating their 12th (or heck 1st) goal against the USWNT.
I seriously doubt there will ever be a press room...
...in any sporting venue in this city named in Shank's honor.