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Governor declares public-health emergency, bans all vaping products
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Cool cool cool cool cool no doubt no doubt
Now do cars.
Nah Son
Nah
Cars have a useful and necessary purpose
in society. Vaping products don't.
Cars are statistically a far greater public health risk
Vaping products not nearly as much.
That ambulance sure helped
That ambulance sure helped out my uncle when he had his massive heart attack. Guess he should have ridden his bicycle to the ER.
Nice strawman
If its an honest argument about emergency access (be honest, its not an honest argument) then you should be behind reducing the impacts that car traffic has on emergency response time.
Look, even bike infra can be used by emergency vehicles!
https://twitter.com/BrooklynSpoke/status/1175779551303143426
Somewhat related, motorcycle ambulances.
https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/article/2000139839/motorcycle-ambulances...
Did you think before posting
Did you think before posting that? Of course statistically cars are worse. The stats on vaping fatalities just came out and cars have been around longer. *sigh*
You didn't too long about that strawman huh?
Yes, cars are statistically worse because we've had so much time to gather stats on it.............and we still haven't tackled the issue, hell we've doubled down on car-culture.
Next.
except
That they kind of do. A number of my friends have quit cigarettes through vaping, reducing their nicotine intake greatly, if not to 0. And yes, these same people have tried other therapies and prescribed medicines to zero or even detrimental effect.
Modern vaping products have been around for a number of years - the mid 2000s. Yes, the medical community is studying the effects of food grade glycerin as inhaled because that's not how it is meant to be ingested. Harvard School of Public Health has done a number of these studies and I'm trying to keep my eye on their reports for personal reasons (Family).
The wave of deaths has come about incredibly recently. Not to start rumors, but optics lead me to see it tied to the loosening of marijuana laws - and the opportunities for bathtub chemists to create their own e-juices. I will wait for the professionals to come to their conclusions, though.
Your friends, who you claim...
... quit nicotine by vaping, represent a very small minority. Vaping leads to nicotine addiction for the majority who use it. Many of them are teenagers.
You're right
I do claim it because I live with it/them in my household. And I hang with more thems who are incredibly close to vaping with 0mg product. Those same folks started smoking as pre-teens in the very early 80s.
Vaping, I predict, will go through the same path that cigarettes and other tobacco did only faster. The advertising will change to not be aimed at kids and the PR will continue to be put out about the harmful effects of nicotine.
But to negate my claim as people in the minority? I think the numbers need to be found to prove it.
If you ban cars how will
If you ban cars how will people who suffer from micro penis rev their engines and show off their big boy trucks? How will drivers get to the Dunkin that's three blocks away? Walk?!
If you ban vaping how will I signal to Area Teens that I am "hip" and "with it"?
Too much vaping cloud your
Too much vaping cloud your thinking? Do try to stay on topic.
Geesh
You guys bring up cars for everything.
Never change UHub.
I means its pretty valid
Do you disagree with the statistics showing how impactful motor vehicles are on public health and safety?
What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
Sure, only if...
you can explain to me how someone like me is to get from my residence in the Quincy area to my job in Norton, door-to-door, and do it in less than an hour.
I'd love more robust transportation options across the state, but it's not a viable solution to suggest everyone sacrifices potential "quality of life" by potentially doubling or tripling their commute time, just to avoid auto use.
The public transportation network needs to be much more robust to make an efficient non-auto commute a reality for everyone. And it doesn't HAVE to be just on the MBTA (i.e. we need more regional networks).
Regional Rail tackles parts of that
If you're trying to have an honest argument about commuting, quality of life is directly impacted by long travel times. Its obviously connected with the sprawl of our suburbs, where people choose to live and where they find opportunities to work.
Again, motor vehicles are a public health and safety issue in this region, with commute times absolutely impacting mental and physical health, not to mention time away from family.
But specific to you, some mechanism of fees with congestion pricing and/or vehicle miles. There needs to be an incentive to drive less, if possible, and not just have it measured in time but also monetary and health costs on the individual and society.
Not everyone is going to stop driving but those that can will if offered an equal if not better alternative, so lets do that.
I would love the equal/better alternative...
and I am certainly not "married" to driving my vehicle (current commute necessity aside). I would prefer to take a combo of trains/buses, but again, there isn't a "car alternative" that comes within miles of my work in Norton.
The amount of transfers needed would likely increase my commute by 2.5X (at minimum), as I'd have to back-track to S. Station, then head south again (222 to Quincy Cntr, to S. Station, to Mansfield Station). I can't imagine how much earlier I'd have to wake up to accommodate that.
And, even if I can get within 8 miles of my work, how do I get from the closest commuter rail station to my work, without digging into the pocket & getting an Uber? Between the decreased amount of sleep to accommodate the aforementioned transfers, and the cost of getting from the last train station to my work (alone), there would be no increased/steady "quality of life" compared to my current getting in a car, and driving an hour door-to-door. Do I like it? Not really, but it's the most convenient & affordable & efficient option I have currently.
There's such a lack of transportation depth outside of the Boston Metro area (sans the BAT system originating in Brockton), it's pathetic.
Marketing opportunity
Now all the kids who are already selling this crap illegally to their classmates can jack up the prices.
Fine
A bunch of them will decide it's too expansive or a PITA to buy and hopefully quit, at least for a few months.
Kids who vape are losers. The kids smart enough to avoid that crap deserve clean air.
What about those addicted?
Addiction doesn't make someone a loser. Forcing people into the black market is just going exasperate the issue.
Oh my apologies, you'd need to have a clue and an ounce of empathy to understand this.
oooh the "Black Market"
Do you mean driving to NH? You are aware the nicotine and weed are still legal, yes?
Waiting for everyone to explain how outraged they are they can only smoke flower legally. Oh the horrors.
Educate yourself
The public health issues that are in the news about this are directly related to unregulated (ie black market) vape cartridges that made people sick and in some cases killed them.
The knee jerk reaction to ban the regulated vape cartridges just drives people to the very unregulated market thats making people sick, whats the point?
The real brands are "safe"
All the deaths have been from people smoking knock-off vapes. As best as I can tell (correct me if it's not true) no one has gotten seriously ill from using a Juul. Eliminating the only "safe" products honestly will push people to smoke all sorts of way worse shit. (And 15 year olds can't just get in the car and drive to NH.)
Missing something?
“no one has gotten seriously ill from using a Juul.“
You don’t think nicotine addiction is a serious illness?
Yeah, no empathy
No one can honestly claim they thought it was good idea when they started. Anyone who thought it was harmless is a moron, hence my point above.
I have a bit of empathy for people who took up smoking decades ago.
Weird flex being proud about your ignorance too
Thanks for perpetuating the stigmas about addiction, if only we had leaders like you and Charlie you tackling the opioid epidemic.
No Prob, Bob
I think about all the kids (and adults) who have to endure vape smoke on a daily basis. This is a win for them.
Vaping should have never been legal from the get-go. Speaking of opioids, they wouldn't be such a big problem today if there was regulator oversight of companies marketing them and doctors prescribing them a decade ago.
Regulator oversight
You mean like the regulations placed on vaping companies?
So what do you think about all the kids (and adults) who have to endure car exhaust on a daily basis. Any empathy for them or nah?
Cars have nothing to do with this
But since you brought it up, pollution should also be highly regulated. I'm not in favor of banning all cars but we seem to agree on the need to decrease the amount of personal vehicle driving/ownership.
The health impact of vehicle emissions should a factor in all decisions involving transportation.
I can dig that
Especially the not banning all cars part, def on the same page there.
I just think that if the governor is taking steps to declare a public health emergency over vapes, we should be having a serious conversation about the public health emergency of motor vehicles and thats not just talking about emissions.
And its not even a "whataboutism" reaction, its just a statistical analysis, we have a public health and safety crisis that the state refuses to address with the powers that come from declaring an emergency.
We know both products are dangerous to public health and safety but the one that hasn't caused a death in the commonwealth is currently banned.
It’s possible to have empathy...
... for both. They are sometimes one and the same.
Really? Wrong.
I had a relative who decided to try vaping instead of smoking cause she thought it would help her quit smoking. And, in general, when it first appeared, vaping was markeed as less harmful as smoking, in regards to comparing vaping with all the chemicals found in one cig, if I remember correctly.
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/wellness-and-prevention/5-truths-...
CVS sells nicotine gum and patches
for people who really are addicted to this drug. Unlike cigarettes or vape products, these are stigma-free.
Yeah, the problem is
those that like the feel of something in their mouths, akin to smoking, will not go for a patch on the arm. Hence, the popularity of vaping.
No one ever...
... died from not having a cigarette.
Not true
I was strongly addicted to nicotine. When I first tried to quit, I used gum because of the oral fixation from cigarettes, but then I found I kept using too much of it since I smoked a LOT so it wasn't doing anything to help quit.
What did I do? I used the patch and used altoids or sugar free mints for the oral fixation. Worked fine and I'm a year tobacco/nicotine free.
None of this vaping junk, it doesn't help.
For you
I think we need to remember that everyone is different and there is more than one way to skin a cat. Or to quit smoking.
Yeah, sure.
"Oh, Daddy, you'll love my new boyfriend. He's an addict!"
Sorry
But you are a loser if you're addicted to vaping. Get a real vice.
Cool, its the nicotine that people get addicted to but whatever
Any other vices you want policed by the state?
Was this sudden ban anticipated?
I don't vape but know many who do, including some who swear that it helped them quit smoking. Was this ban expected and if not, what is Baker's plan to help those dependent on vaping to transition into something safer without the horror of withdrawals? The ban seems shortsighted and without benefit of forethought, so typical of the Baker crowd. The roadtrips to NH and other border states will be reminiscent of the Sunday "packy runs' before liquor stores were allowed to open on Sundays.
Baker is not alone
Read this article to see what actions other states are taking:
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/15/vaping-state-lawmakers-crackdo...
Good old...
...business friendly GOP huh Fish? I bet the vape shop/smoke shop owners are gonna love this 4 month ban. Maybe like your pal Trump Charlie'll just kick em some no-strings-attached bailout money, taxpayer provided of course.
MMM...good times....TASTE THE FREEDOM. So much winning......
Yes
Once the CDC settled on a case definition, the number of cases that fit the definition and were connected to vaping became known. The problem has been with us for a while, but seems to be intensifying. If we are going to nuke swamps for EEE mosquitoes, then we can ban vaping for the 50X number of cases.
Quitting
Vaping didn't "help you quit" if you just transitioned to another form of inhaled tobacco.
They can always take up pipe smoking.
Vaping IS NOT another form of tobacco
And the nicotine DOES NOT cause cancer. It is no more dangerous than an 'addiction' to caffeine.
People need to grow up and stop behaving like neurotic control freaks. I would much rather have people use nicotine and the than the deadly shit pharmaceutical companies hock as 'medications' (DRUGS).
BZZZZZZZZTTTT!
WILL YOU JUST FUCKING STOP WITH THE "NICOTINE IS JUST LIKE CAFFEINE" BULLSHIT ALREADY!
Source: https://www.heart.org/en/healthy-living/healthy-lifestyle/quit-smoking-t...
Nicotine CAUSES CARDIOVASCULAR DISEASE. This has been known for THIRTY YEARS.
Most tobacco smokers do not die from cancer ... THEY DIE FROM HEART DISEASE.
Adam - can you stop letting this dangerous disinformation through?
And right on cue we hear from
And right on cue we hear from our resident neurotic control freak.
Is she wrong?
And right on cue we hear from our resident lazy libertarian. What isn't true in what she said?
Thank you..
... swirlygirl.
Absolutely true.
It is complicated which is different from fake
The problem is that you have to go deep in the weeds to get an answer.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4553893/
https://www.healthline.com/health/does-nicotine-cause-cancer#nicotine-an...
Nicotine does effect the attention span and memory, but it isn't safe. I am old enough to remember working with mentally ill adults and how scared we were to stop letting them smoke inside. It kept them calm, but they all died in their 50's.
It casues death though
Which is worst than cancer. You shouldn't inhale chemicals into your lungs. Stick to the real stuff, weed.
CUSTOMER: I would like to stop doing this thing which...
...might kill me. What do you have for me?
BUSINESS: We have this other thing that might kill you.
CUSTOMER: Yeah, sign me up for that!
great!
let's do the same for guns, which are arguably even deadlier.
If addicted, switch to cigarettes
No, I'm not joking. Cigarettes are dangerous in the long run, but vaping is causing severe lung damage extremely quickly.
Sadly, my guess is that people will find these online anyway.
I'll add that my Dentist also
I'll add that my Dentist also remarked that with E Cigarettes or Vaping you are inhaling a much hotter material than a cigarette, joint or bowl. He routinely inspects his patients mouths for cancers, etc and he is now keeping an eye out for heat related damage.
Honestly
Learn how the equipment works. Especially the modifiable ones. Each user controls the temp. Some people don't want it that hot.
Grotesque overkill
There is no public health emergency surrounding vaping. There is, statistically, a very small number of people who had severe adverse reaction to whatever was added to the mostly thx vaping product they got off the street. Dealers cut their products with often dangerous base.
But big tobacco are gloating. Many will smoke tobacco products which is far more dangerous than vaping using products from legit sources.
And please stop with the nicotine demonization. Nicotine is not dangerous unless you ingest a massive amount (in which case you would throw up and be fine). Nicotine is pretty much similar to caffeine. It is not the cause of cancer the vast majority of people who smoke tobacco and get cancer, get.
Sue the state. Nice, big, fat class action lawsuits.
If you need nicotine, buy the gum
Any drugstore will sell it to you.
brave Anon
nicotine is not as safe as caffeine. Stop baiting people with dishonest propaganda
Too bad he did not move
as fast to deal with the subway and commuter rail issues.
We all know drug bans work great
Government hysteric logic: serious issue with black market vape oil causing lung damage (no incidents from the legal ones). Bans the legal ones!
Yes, the health cases are from black market oil. Yes this will mean more people ultimately resolve to using black market vape oil. Beyond stupid from a health policy standpoint.
Questions on whether teen nicotine usage is up or not aside, vaping has demonstrably done more to help people quit smoking than anything else over the years, which is a laudable accomplishment.
There's got to be a better
There's got to be a better way to tackle teen nicotine usage, than banning products for adults as well. As a lifetime smoker who started at 15, vaping nicotine on it's own is barely pleasurable - It really seems like it's designed as a crutch rather than a catalyst. There's much more to the smoking rush than just the nicotine. BUT, It is the ONLY product to have come out ever that attempts to tackle all the facets of smoking addiction. The physical, the stepping out, the inhale/exhale. Many smokers have wanted to find healthier alternatives for years, whether it be brands, less additives etc., but when you go searching for those, you're just met with the kneejerk 'smoking is bad', which has never been helpful. Of course there is a safer alternative. May not be safe, but safer. And this again seems another kneejerk dismissal of something that could and has helped many people.
Is this only ecig stuff?
Will medical weed card patients still be able to get vaping stuff from their medical dispensary?
Read the article
Actually, no
Luckily, I ordered two vape cartridges from NETA ("recreational") in Brookline yesterday morning, and I was able to pick up the filled order in the afternoon. But people in the "walk-up" line were told they would be unable to purchase vape cartridges.
This includes medical patients.
This is the problem with blanket bans. None of the reported cases in MA are from legal stores, where the products are tested and inspected before sale.
"What about the children?" is a ridiculous argument -- it is already illegal for anyone under 21 to even enter a dispensary. There is a minimum age to buy tobacco-based vapes. Alcohol and cigarettes are still legal, and kids use those illegally.
Peanut butter kills more people annually than reported vaping cases, but I was not stopped from buying a jar of Skippy. Ants and dogs combined kill more people annually. Texting while driving kills 6,000 people annually in the U.S. alone.
Knee-jerk reactions never work. Now many people who buy legal vape products will be forced back to the black market -- where the real dangerous stuff is in the first place.
Genius
Now no one will be able to vape because it’s illegal. Problem solved! Reminds me of when weed was illegal.
Even better is that small business smoke and vape shop owners will have NO problems keeping their businesses afloat. These next 4 months will be a real breeze for them.
Nobody gets addicted to LSD! It's made by scientists!
It's always been a mystery to me why people who are given conspiracy theories agreed to be lab rats for vaping. You are trusting chemical companies and the FDA to keep you safe (pretty bad spot to be in). People here are talking about what oil their dispensary is using, as if those companies have a team of chemists going over lab results. Hate to tell you but the companies that you are buying these chemicals from (who you think are cool), are just passing along crap that came from the usual multi-nationals that you know are trouble. Enjoy.
Testing requirements
"People here are talking about what oil their dispensary is using, as if those companies have a team of chemists going over lab results."
There are requirements for testing by an independent lab ("independent" is defined in the law) and release. They may have to update the list of what's allowed in THC cartridges based on evolving knowledge of the risks. The focus on THC carts seems to be on black market ones that are cutting the oil with a vitamin E compound that turns nasty when heated/burned (which would be compounded with the lower grade cartridges they're buying to fill.
Here's the publicly available information on what testing is required.
https://www.mass.gov/info-details/medical-use-of-marijuana-program-produ...
We aren't really there yet on the Chinese oils though, are we?
Everyone is suddenly grasping onto this theory that black market oils are to blame for all of these cases, but that's much more of an internet rumor thing rather than an actual scientifically proven thing. It sounds like a good explanation, but let me know when someone other than bros on chat boards start talking about this.
The oils aren't black market per se
It's not that it's "Chinese oil" but rather that the vitamin E acetate seems to be linked to the acute lung ailments we're seeing, whether it is sourced from the US or China is irrelevant but it is a more common cutting agent in black market carts. That's part of why the street carts are cheaper, they cut the contents down so that there is less THC per unit volume but often use inexpensive agents like vitamin E acetate to do it. Is it safe to assume that The NY State Department of Health is not made up of "internet bros" in your book?
The more chronic pneumonia ailment seems to be more closely linked to vaping propylene glycol and vegetable glycerine which increases lipids in the lung tissue. Or is The Journal of Clinical Investigation also an "internet bro" in your book?
There are known links between these pneumonia type lung ailments and breathing in oils (search for the lung cases linked to a diacetyl production at a facility that made artificial butter flavoring as an example) so why would you dismiss a connection between them and the intentional inhaling of oils that have been heated to a vapor?
It's early in understanding what's going on and there are a ton of open questions about all of the things involved (e.g. flavorings, composition/construction of cartridges, etc.) but to dismiss the observed correlations as an "internet rumor" on your part is seriously misguided even if the hysteria is probably beyond the risk at this point in time.
I'm going to take my car and
I'm going to take my car and drive it to NH to buy lots vaping products.
I have to say this ...
Juul should not have hired Martha Coakley. :-)
Finally
Something 61seveners can unite on!!!
well...
I guess it's easier than banning douchebags.
Who
Pray tell r u talking about on this comment feed? Hmmm?
Whatever happened to banning
Whatever happened to banning flavoring? That ban makes a lot more sense.
Slippery Slope
No matter what you think of vaping, when a senior elected official makes declarations like this, it sets the stage for a lot of push back from the people.
Consider Trumps declaration of a national emergency for his wall. Baker's declaration is in the same room.
A precautionary action
Is it that different from cancelling night-time outdoor activities (such as high school football, movies, and concerts) in towns where EEE-infected mosquitos have been found?
Not to sound too crazy
But this vaping health crisis is a good argument for federal legalization of weed. We need the resources for the FDA to properly study and regulate how weed is delivered to the body with different methods. Remember all the OD's from stupid people not understanding how eatables worked?
I'm a little taken aback by
I'm a little taken aback by the ignorant venemous defense of a corproate chemical company product that is making teenagers sick.
It's a dirty habit that is
It's a dirty habit that is harming the lungs of otherwise healthy teens and adults. No 17 yr. old should be in the hospital for using a recreational product only for a few weeks. If you need a source: google it, watch local and/ or national news, pull your head out of the sand.