Cambridge Day reports a Middlesex Superior Court jury today found the driver of a dump truck who hit and killed Jie Zhao, 27, at Magazine and Putnam streets last year, after a trial in which the driver's driver suggested the MIT graduate was to blame for her death because she may have been listening to music and so unable to hear the truck's back-up beeping.
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Comments
of course
By Michael
Thu, 11/21/2019 - 10:02pm
Driver: I didn't see the pedestrian
Court: Rebuttal?
Pedestrian: [doesn't say anything because is dead]
Court: Sorry to trouble you, you're free to go
If you consider the court and jury the same thing...
By Pete Nice
Fri, 11/22/2019 - 8:05am
Then yea, it does go like that.
that's a good point
By Michael
Fri, 11/22/2019 - 8:19am
Most vehicular homicides don't even get anywhere near a jury, the killer driver having long since been sent home with a pinky-swear not to do it again
Sad
By Daan
Thu, 11/21/2019 - 10:44pm
But the reality is that volumes are played loud enough to make other sounds unheard. Add not paying attention to immediate surroundings.
We don't live in forests where there is a rare moment danger. We live in cities where not paying attention has costs.
How many times is it necessary to remind folks to not walk with their headphones blasting into their ears at night in areas where bad people look for easy victims?
I offer to the family the recognition of their pain of loss. I hope that this might teach other folks to be more attentive to their surroundings.
Yeah, paying attention
By BostonDog
Thu, 11/21/2019 - 10:49pm
So why aren't you blaming the driver for not paying attention?
Because
By Anon
Fri, 11/22/2019 - 7:29am
Humans typically have eyes on the front of their head, not on the back of their dump trucks.
That’s why drivers need to ..
By Lee
Fri, 11/22/2019 - 1:52pm
.. look in their mirrors or rear view screens.
Check out the concept
By whyaduck
Fri, 11/22/2019 - 10:12am
of blind spots when driving a truck.
Check out the concept
By anon
Fri, 11/22/2019 - 10:27am
Of not driving vehicles where you can't see.
back up camera disabled or broken
By cinnamngrl
Fri, 11/22/2019 - 1:00pm
Modern technology can overcome all blind spots. In fact this dump truck had a back up camera that wasn't working at the time. At this point, Truck operators have blind spots because they want to.
The motor vehicle bias is killing more and more people every year. This case makes it obvious. Backing up in an intersection is illegal to start with. It is evil to allow this to go on.
Trucks with blind spots ...
By Lee
Fri, 11/22/2019 - 1:53pm
... should be banned from the road.
So in other words
By Anon
Sat, 11/23/2019 - 10:24am
Every single motorized vehicle in existence? Now, I’m sure you can brew your own kombucha, but who’s going to deliver your 70” OLED, your $300 raw Japanese selvedge skinnies and your special edition handmade Chucks? And your bike, for that matter?
If you can’t see my mirrors
By Anon
Fri, 11/22/2019 - 11:57am
I can’t see you.
If you can’t see ...
By Lee
Fri, 11/22/2019 - 1:54pm
... what’s behind you. You have no business backing up.
My cheap ass hatchback has a rearview camera...
By peter
Fri, 11/22/2019 - 9:48pm
If cities are so full of danger maybe the *source* of the danger should take some responsibility and take appropriate precautions?
Surely the cost of a camera is minimal compared to the dump truck's TCO
This is victim blaming and
By Kinopio
Thu, 11/21/2019 - 10:55pm
This is victim blaming and nothing else. The driver ran the victim over twice but you blame a pedestrian for wearing earbuds?
And sometimes the victim is
By anon
Fri, 11/22/2019 - 7:07am
And sometimes the victim is to blame. Jurys don't always render the verdicts you like.
You should read the article
By Matt
Fri, 11/22/2019 - 8:51am
Then your reason can overtake your emotions.
I did read the article. That
By Kinopio
Fri, 11/22/2019 - 10:48am
I did read the article. That’s how I know the driver ran the victim over twice, genius.
Read it again
By Anon
Fri, 11/22/2019 - 12:00pm
And again and again, until you stop fixating on a single line and understand what actually happened.
Oh wait, never mind, it’s kinopio! Look, a car! Bark! Fetch!
Jury Instructions
By Rob O
Fri, 11/22/2019 - 11:11am
The judge instructed the jury that the victim's possible negligence (which was the defense attorney's speculation based on finding earbuds near her body) WAS NOT a defense to the charge here.
Maybe a valuable lesson for internet commenters too....
Here's the lesson maybe?
By dmcboston
Fri, 11/22/2019 - 12:32pm
Have situational awareness.
Unplug the earbuds.
Be aware of your surroundings.
So, I read the links...
"According to a police report, another truck driver behind Desroche initially signaled that the intersection was clear but then frantically warned Desroche to “Stop! Stop! Stop!” when the second driver saw Zhao start to cross Putnam Avenue. Other motorists at the intersection beeped their horns and shouted, but no one could get Desroche’s attention, court documents said. Some witnesses told police that Zhao seemed to freeze and lost her footing when the truck began backing up."
Sounds like he acted responsibly, waved on by someone, then the situation changed.
Look, I'm not going to get into the argument about what happened here. I'll just say here's the lesson...you might be in the right, Jie Zhao may have been in the right. She's still dead. The world is not a perfect place. If you're in the way, you pay the penalty, unless you are aware and move accordingly.
The driver will live with this the rest of his life.
Don't glibly dismiss that statement. People kill themselves over guilt like that.
talk about glib, dude.
By anon
Fri, 11/22/2019 - 12:37pm
maybe you should try a little self-awareness yourself.
you know what? good. he should, because he took another life, out of his own inattentiveness. he should sit with it, and it should eat him up.
You're young. You haven't seen much.
By dmcboston
Fri, 11/22/2019 - 1:59pm
[i]'If you're in the way, you pay the penalty.'[/i]
Yes. I stand by that statement. Poor Jie Zhao is dead. The truck didn't get hurt.
'maybe you should try a little self-awareness yourself.'
I have plenty. My heart breaks for that girl. I wish someone was standing next to her on the sidewalk to grab her arm...
[i]'The driver will live with this the rest of his life.'[/i]
Yes he will. I hope he can find peace.
'you know what? good. he should, because he took another life, out of his own inattentiveness. he should sit with it, and it should eat him up.'
It will, but as I said, I hope he can find some peace and healing.
As an aside, you're a horrible little
fuckperson. I pray that you never find yourself in a situation where something terrible happened and, as you look around, know that it's all on you.friend
By anon
Fri, 11/22/2019 - 3:56pm
I appreciate your calling me "young", it makes my Friday.
And I've seen plenty. I happen to currently live where traffic (and truly horrific deaths) are exponentially higher than in Boston.
I've seen how, even here, it comes down to responsible operation of a machine that is capable of killing people.
Have a blessed day.
Situational Awareness
By Scratchie
Fri, 11/22/2019 - 12:41pm
You're 100% correct. It sounds like Desroche could have used a lot more situational awareness:
You've never driven a truck...
By dmcboston
Fri, 11/22/2019 - 1:31pm
It doesn't take long. Guy waves you on, you press the clutch, throw it into reverse, scan the mirrors, look right, nobody, look left, nobody, let out the clutch, reverse beeper sounds nice and loud, hear a bunch of horns, stop. Now you've covered what, ten feet? Less? Pull forward.
How long, five seconds? Game over.
Read the article. He had no priors. He was a good driver.
Tell me, what would you have done differently? This is not a case of a crackhead with no CDL driving off a New Hampshire road killing seven people.
Your standards are very low
By cinnamngrl
Fri, 11/22/2019 - 1:55pm
I understand that this person had no priors, but there is very little enforcement. How many people should die because truck driving is hard? I don't hate this truck driver, but we need to save lives. Victim blaming is natural, but it hasn't reduced deaths. The truth is that statistically, it doesn't matter whether the pedestrian is paying attention or not.
The facts of this case as presented don't show that the victim was negligent, they show that the jury is biased. Without video, you cannot reliably show that the victim crossed against the light. The victim would have had to know that the truck would back up. There is no evidence that the victim would have time to get out of the way, or tried to get out of the way. The record shows that the other truck driver attempted to stop the first drive but the truck didn't break fast enough. It is biased to expect the object impacted to anticipate the other vehicle. If this guy had back into another car, he would been found at fault. Laws must change to give drivers responsibility.
"Your standards are very low"
By dmcboston
Fri, 11/22/2019 - 2:28pm
Actually, no. The jury ruled. I was not a witness, so I didn't see what happened that day. All we can do is infer what happened from the articles cited.
I'm glad you don't hate the truck driver. Perhaps you can see that he's a decent person that will have to deal with what happened.
"The truth is that statistically, it doesn't matter whether the pedestrian is paying attention or not. "
No. Absolutely not. If you believe that, I want to see a citation. It absolutely [i]does[/i] matter if you are paying attention. You will see a possible danger. You will size it up. You will say to yourself, "Self? That truck is making a beeping sound. It's not moving, but it is in reverse. Maybe I'll wait a sec before I step off the curb."
The truck will move, you won't, and everyone goes off to the rest of their day. It's called keeping alive on a planet that doesn't care if you live or die.
"... they show that the jury is biased."
I dunno. They considered all the facts, facts that we don't have access to because we weren't there.
"It is biased to expect the object impacted to anticipate the other vehicle."
If by the object impacted you mean Jie Zhao, we anticipate the actions of other vehicles, people, objects constantly every day. This is how we negotiate through traffic, crowds, everything.
'Laws must change to give drivers responsibility.'
What? He was charged with vehicular homicide.
You can do your own research.
By cinnamngrl
Sat, 11/23/2019 - 8:20am
You can do your own research. We do anticipate the actions of others but it is impossible when a truck backs up in an intersection. It is not a driveway or a loading dock. It was illegal driving. He was charged with vehicular homicide and by even the limited evidence given, he was responsible for negligent homicide. The head phones were not in her ears when her body hit the ground. Assuming that they "might" have been in her ears is bias.
Again, if this truck had backed into another car, he would been found at fault.
Not if the car went against the signal like the pedestrian did..
By Pete Nice
Sat, 11/23/2019 - 8:24am
So I don't think so.
Backing up in an intersection
By cinnamngrl
Mon, 11/25/2019 - 9:42am
Backing up in an intersection is going against the signal. why is a pedestrian held to a higher standard than a driver?
Never said a higher standard.
By Pete Nice
Wed, 11/27/2019 - 9:00am
Just pointing out the difference if a vehicle knew they may have a red light for pedestrians for backing up and looked through their mirrors and did not see one.
What traffic lights allow a
By cinnamngrl
Wed, 11/27/2019 - 11:51am
What traffic lights allow a driver to back up in an intersection over a crosswalk? The driver was aware that his backup camera was broken and he did not have a coworker flagging him. You are clearly expecting the pedestrian to be more careful than a licensed truck driver.
I expect the pedestrian not to walk when the red hand is up
By Pete Nice
Fri, 11/29/2019 - 9:59am
Not complicated.
And I'm very fucking careful when and if I decide to cross a street against the proper signal.
Again, why are you holding
By cinnamngrl
Fri, 11/29/2019 - 10:30am
Again, why are you holding the pedestrian to a higher standard then the Class B CDL dump truck driver who knowingly backed with a broken/disabled back up camera? If the driver had backed into a car, they would be at fault.
A parked car? Sure.
By Pete Nice
Fri, 11/29/2019 - 10:55am
I'm not mentioning standards anywhere. I'm talking about what I do when I walk around the city (or anywhere) and I don't want to get hurt.
Plus, standards are always subjective.
If a drunk driver crosses an intersection legally and another car comes the other way speeding through a red light and crashes into the drunk driver, who is more at fault?
This is nonsensical. What
By cinnamngrl
Fri, 11/29/2019 - 1:13pm
This is nonsensical. What does a parked car have to do with it? It is biased to assign any blame to the pedestrian. How is it reasonable for her to expect the dump truck to back up? She didn't cross in front of the truck she crossed behind it. The truck had a broken back up camera. He had no right to back up without a without a co-worker standing back there signaling. His view was obstructed and he backed up any way.
A parked car isn't breaking the law
By Pete Nice
Fri, 11/29/2019 - 4:38pm
Unless it was illegally parked. A person who crosses against a light is breaking the law. How is that nonsensical?
Have you walked in a city? You should expect unreasonable things all the time. I don't care if I have the white hand and a green light, I still look to see if cars are coming or turning illegally that might not see me.
His view was obstructed and a person broke the law and crossed in back of him. That is a fact. He probably expected someone would see and hear a dump truck backing up two streets away from where he was doing a paving job.
I will be crystal clear for you...
By Rob O
Fri, 11/22/2019 - 1:18pm
You are correct that the issue is whether the driver acted negligently. That went to a jury. I disagree with the verdict, but I am not arguing that.
You seem to be missing my point that whether or not the victim was wearing earbuds has NO BEARING on that first issue.
Banning car stereos, are we
By anon
Fri, 11/22/2019 - 10:27am
No?
How about requiring all drivers to never have roofs on their cars?
No?
Examine your understanding of what people can/can't hear and then check stats on which type of vehicle driver kills the most.
Deaf people
By BostonDog
Thu, 11/21/2019 - 10:47pm
Glad I'm not deaf. Apparently it's legal to kill someone with a hearing disability.
Isn’t there a significant moral difference
By Bob Leponge
Fri, 11/22/2019 - 8:14am
Between hitting a blind person, and hitting someone who deliberately puts on a blindfold and walks into traffic?
In neither case is it ok to hit a pedestrian of course, but they are two very different cases.
Bad analogy
By BostonDog
Fri, 11/22/2019 - 9:13am
Someone who puts on a blindfold and walks into traffic is suicidal. Not figuratively, literally. They are looking to end their life or at least get hurt.
Someone wearing headphones (a device 95% of the population owns and uses) is not looking to die. Neither is someone wearing earmuffs when it's cold for that matter.
The pedestrian wasn't doing something wreckless like walking into a construction site. The driver did not set out to hit the person, but it was their fault the person struck. The pedestrian didn't strike the truck.
Don’t wear headphones when it is not safe to do so
By Bob Leponge
Fri, 11/22/2019 - 10:28am
Someone wearing headphones in an environment where situational awareness is necessary for safety is acting with reckless disregard for their own well being. That lots of people do it doesn’t alter that, any more than “lots of people drive drunk,” or “lots of people text while driving” excuses either of those behaviors.
Deliberately interfering with your hearing while walking around, especially near traffic or heavy machinery, is reckless self endangerment.
Not true
By BostonDog
Fri, 11/22/2019 - 10:45am
Right, people driving have no responsibility to know the surroundings of their vehicles. It's everyone else who is responsible.
Glad you cleared that up.
Contributory negligence?
By Bob Leponge
Fri, 11/22/2019 - 11:29am
Are you unfamiliar with the concept of contributory negligence? Contributory negligence on the part of the victim does not relieve the culpability of the other party. It is not an either/or thing and I have in no way claimed that it is.
Hypocrite and victim-blamer
By Passingcommenter
Fri, 11/22/2019 - 8:05pm
I’m glad you always drive your windows down and radio off. That makes us all safer when you drive your two tons of metal and plastic!
Thanks for doing your part and not being part of the proven and blaming a dead person!
Prove that she was wearing headphones
By anon
Fri, 11/22/2019 - 10:51am
They were found nearby. That doesn't mean anything. I keep mine in my pocket, but if I were run over they would probably end up near my body.
This is a stupid argument. A fake argument. A "drivers get to kill people free" argument.
Was the driver using a stereo in the truck? Were the windows up? Those impair hearing, too.
Victim blaming knows no bounds when precious drivers might be held accountable for their death toll.
I hope you don’t listen to
By Kinopio
Fri, 11/22/2019 - 10:51am
I hope you don’t listen to music or talk to anyone while you are driving then. Oh, those rules don’t apply to the people operating 2 ton deadly weapons? Cool hypocrisy, bro.
I don’t wear earphones while driving
By Bob Leponge
Fri, 11/22/2019 - 11:25am
Because doing so is unsafe and illegal.
If you take the time to read what I have posted in this thread I hope you will see that I am in no way exonerating the driver nor am I blaming the victim (I have no reason to believe she was wearing earphones at the time). I was responding to the poster who tried to equate wearing earphones with deafness. One is a disability; the other is deliberate self impairment.
own up to it, Bob.
By anon
Fri, 11/22/2019 - 11:29am
you absolutely are, and you know it. you went head first into your justification of this person's murder-by-truck and now you're trying to backpedal.
don't be a coward.
Not victim blaming
By Bob Leponge
Fri, 11/22/2019 - 2:53pm
If I say, “don’t leave your laptop on the seat of your car with the door unlocked,” would you accuse me of victim blaming?
Yeah, you ought to be able to do so, and the thief who steals your laptop is to morally to blame and not you, but my advice remains, “don’t leave valuable shit lying around.”
And if you were my employee, and if it had been my laptop you left lying out in plain sight, I would be justifiably pissed off at you for your negligence. Would you interpret my position as exonerating the thief?
Wearing earbuds while moving around in shared public space is needlessly stacking the deck against yourself.
When someone is dead, its
By cinnamngrl
Sat, 11/23/2019 - 8:22am
When someone is dead, its monstrous.
What difference would headphones make when driving?
By BostonDog
Fri, 11/22/2019 - 11:44am
You already can't hear much street noise when driving. And car radios aren't prohibited. A modern, high quality car is effectively a sound booth.
So driving such a car would be deliberate self impairment in your world. After all, the driver would be purposefully cutting off their hearing as soon as they closed the car door.
Getting back to this trial, how do you know the woman didn't scream "STOP" but the truck driver didn't hear her? Why is it only her hearing which matters?
I have no comment on this particular case
By Bob Leponge
Fri, 11/22/2019 - 12:01pm
because I have no knowledge of this case. My comments pertain to the practice of wearing earphones while walking around
Sometimes while walking down a busy street ...
By Lee
Fri, 11/22/2019 - 2:00pm
.. I am forced to cover my ears because of the noise from motors and drivers who lean on their horns. I get why people wear earbuds.
The trouble with wearing earbuds, however, is
By mplo
Fri, 11/22/2019 - 11:03pm
that wearing them blocks out sounds not only of motor vehicles, but the sounds of people with bad intentions who are looking for easy victims.
A former co-worker of mine was wearing her SONY walkman and listening to music, while walking home from work at night. A couple of roughnecks mugged her, took her stuff, and threw her in the bushes. She learned the hard way never to wear earbuds and listen to music while walking around in public, especially at night. It's only common sense. It's unfortunately, however, that she had to learn the hard way.
That, and also...
By Bob Leponge
Sat, 11/23/2019 - 1:21pm
Also the sounds of people with good intentions who are interested in helping you.
I was in an airport yesterday. A guy sitting across from me stood up and started walking towards his gate, having left behind a charger, a battery pack, and some other electronic thing I didn't recognize. I picked them up and followed him, trying to get his attention, but, being a self-centered jackass, he was walking around wearing headphones and so couldn't hear me. After about the third loudly voiced, "Excuse me, you forgot this." I was about to toss them in a trash can, when someone else tapped him on the elbow and pointed at me. He put out his hand for the electronics without even a hint of "thank you".
you have issues
By anon
Sun, 11/24/2019 - 2:56pm
Wearing headphones makes you a "self-centered jackass"?
Little extreme no?
The guy with the earphones was careless enough as it was.
By mplo
Sun, 11/24/2019 - 10:25pm
Yet, the fact that the guy who'd left his stuff behind kept his headphones on, thus making hi oblivious to what was going on, including a person who was out to help him, does make the man the the headphones a self-centered jackass who does have issues, not Bob LePonge. Keep up the good work, Bob. We need more people like you in the world!
I am pretty sure this is not
By cinnamngrl
Mon, 11/25/2019 - 9:44am
I am pretty sure this is not Bob's job. And I guess you would think it was great work to insult the dead.
notes to self:
By anon
Fri, 11/22/2019 - 11:26am
- vehicles and heavy machinery are priority at all times.
- city not built nor intended for people. only machines.
thanks for this Bob. you know, sometimes it amazes me you choose to post these kinds of things under your real name.
If you get that from what I wrote...
By Bob Leponge
Fri, 11/22/2019 - 8:51pm
Please reread the thread. Nothing that I have written could reasonably be construed as exonerating the driver. My sole point remains that trying to walk around shared public space while wearing a blindfold, or while wearing earphones, or with your ankles tied together, is reckless self endangerment. That would be true even if cars and trucks did not exist
I didn't say you exonerated the driver
By anon
Fri, 11/22/2019 - 9:31pm
however, this perfectly illustrates the problem:
first of all, you are equating those three things as if they were equal. by extension, you imply that a person wearing headphones in public wants to be injured.
second, you are putting the onus squarely on the individual pedestrian and not on the operator of a multi-ton vehicle that, through the smallest error or careless operation can injure or kill other living beings.
your logic would seem to indicate that if I step out of my home and into public with so much as anything less than the situational awareness of a Navy Seal, I am to blame for any injury I might sustain, even when that comes at the hands of someone wielding what is, essentially, a gas-powered weapon on wheels. That person, on the other hand, is apparently exempt from the situational awareness requirement, even though that carries an exponentially higher risk.
all of us are pedestrians at some point in our day. but driving is a choice, and as most of our parents said to us at one time, a privilege. you want to drive a truck in public? make sure you can do that responsibly. and yes, that means always being aware of and able to react proactively to protect pedestrians and other more vulnerable motorists, whether they see you or not.
Not what I wrote.
By Bob Leponge
Sat, 11/23/2019 - 2:50pm
They are not equal but they are similar, in that each of them entails voluntarily doing something to yourself that reduces your awareness of the world around your or your ability to deal with the task of moving around safely in it.
How would you or I know whether the person who puts on a blindfold, or ties his ankles together, or puts earphones in his ears wants to be injured? All we can see is the facts, which is that each of these three actions increases the chances that he or she will be injured.
Not in the slightest. The responsibility is on the driver to avoid me as a pedestrian, just as the responsibility is on the passer-by not to break into my car and steal my stuff. But in either case, there actions that I can take that either tend to increase or decrease my risk.
Only if you look at any event as having a single cause, and only if you're looking through the lens of "whom to blame" rather than "how to prevent such occurrences." Professionals who investigate complex failures such as airplane accidents or building collapses tend to favor the "Swiss cheese" approach, which is worth looking into if you're not familiar with it.
So you are saying that
By anon
Fri, 11/22/2019 - 11:58am
So you are saying that drivers should not listen to music, talk on the phone or look at their GPS when driving, correct?
It wasn't unsafe
By anon
Fri, 11/22/2019 - 1:12pm
She was crossing the street looking at the back end of a truck that had already gone through the intersection. It's illegal for him to back up into an intersection in a vehicle of any size, let alone a giant dump truck with blind spots and a broken camera. He knows that because he has a professional driver's license, which is supposed to hold him to a higher standard than the average driver. He was 100% at fault. The buds were found near her body not in her ears so it's supposition that she was wearing them at all but even if she was, she was not at fault or putting herself in danger. You are holding her to a higher standard than the driver who was breaking the law before murdering her.
isn't there a significant moral difference
By anon
Fri, 11/22/2019 - 9:09am
between reality and this nonsense you just put here?
for real? you should probably be more than a little ashamed of yourself.
that was gross.
Was this really what decided the case?
By SamWack
Fri, 11/22/2019 - 12:09pm
I don't know whether the victim was actually wearing her earpods or not, and I don't think it should matter, because the operator of a large machine that is capable of killing people should have the primary responsibility in ensuring that it does not do so. I don't think there's any evidence, however, that the jury considered whether she was wearing them or not. The judge told them not to, and the foreman says they didn't, but focused entirely on the behavior of the driver. Whether or not they came to the right conclusion on that, they shouldn't be faulted for a line of reasoning they did not take.
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