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State Police say they prevented environmental protesters from blocking the Leverett Circle Connector at rush hour
By adamg on Wed, 09/21/2022 - 2:01pm
Two of the seized barrels.
State Police report arresting five Extinction Rebellion climate-change protesters they say were getting ready to use several pink 55-gallon drums outfitted so they could lock arms through them to make traffic even worse than usual this morning on the Leverett Circle Connector and on the ramps that connect to it.
Troopers arrested the five in the middle of the roadway on the Leverett Circle Connector for trespassing on state property and other charges.
Troopers also seized two vehicles that the trespassers had parked in two separate travel lanes to block traffic at the busy intersection. One of those vehicles, a 2017 Ford F250 pickup truck, was carrying three 55-gallon steel drum barrels with holes cut into them and pipes running through the holes, a device known as a “sleeping dragon.” The truck also contained a fourth “sleeping dragon” pipe device not fed through the barrels. A “sleeping dragon” is an improvised device made by protestors to secure themselves together, with their arms fed through a pipe or tube that runs through barrels through holes cut into them. Generally, a protesters hands are then locked to the hands of those next to them inside the barrels, to form a roadblock consisting of a connected series of protestors and barrels.
The four “sleeping dragons” seized from the trespassers this morning were made of steel pipes. Three of the devices were fed through holes cut into the three steel drum barrels. The seizure of the “sleeping dragons” by Troopers prevented the protestors from chaining themselves together in the devices to block traffic at the busy intersection, which is used by motorists connecting to and from the Tobin Bridge, Route 93, Storrow Drive, Nashua Street, and Charles River Dam Road.
State Police add that minutes later, two ambulances made their way through the circle " that would have otherwise been gridlocked, underscoring the importance of not allowing protestors to block roadways."
Arrested around 6:45 a.m.: Grant Rockett, 64 and Mary Hansen, 67, of Jamaica Plain, Joseph Rogers, 55, of Lyndeborough, NH, Mark Dugan, 54, of Newton and Jennifer Smith, 48 of Watertown. All were charged with trespassing on state property, disorderly conduct and conspiracy to commit a crime, police say.
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Comments
Let's see if I have this right...
The "environmentalists" wanted to protest (among other things) climate change by driving a 2017 Ford F250 (which gets 14mpg) to block a busy interchange at rush hour, forcing countless petroleum-powered cars to idle for hours because they decided to lock themselves together with empty oil barrels that were spray-painted with pink petroleum-based paint.
Is that correct?
Its like MAGAT's...
Thinking Trump even gives a shit about them...
That's some pretty serious
TDS you have there. I can't imagine being so angry and controlled by such a thing.
But the Ford F250….
… identifies as a Prius.
(Mic drop)
Aren't you cute
Gosh, what could you possibly be sneering at?
Not sneering…
Saw the bumpah stickah on a Ford F350 a few days ago. Thought I would share the giggle.
Oh cool, the one joke
n/t
Purity fallacy
Purity fallacy
Troubling response
The response I've seen to this (and other protests that block traffic) is disgusting. My peers are hoping for these people to be locked in prison "and throw away the key". Just after the announcement, a widely held sentiment was that people would just run over the protestors if they encountered them.
What do they think the purpose of a protest that blocks traffic is? It is meant to be disruptive. It is meant to be expensive. It is meant to be different from "standard" protests that people can completely ignore.
Yes, we are all aware of climate change, so you may roll your eyes at a perceived "awareness" campaign. But blocking traffic creates a uniquely useful annoyance that helps their case: it makes it harder to drive in the city.
With the exception of people with disabilities that makes it difficult to walk, everything in Boston proper is accessible by T. It's not free (yet) and it's not great (still miles better than SEPTA in Philly) but it does run. They announced the timing of the plan so commuters could go in early if they needed to or plan an alternate route. Everyone else would be reminded just how unpleasant it can be if everyone entering the city at the same time is doing it in a personal vehicle as opposed to much much much more efficient buses and trains.
We can either take out your frustration by wishing death upon people who want to make the world better for us and our children and are willing to non-violently fight for it, or we can pressure our elected officials to make the T far more reliable, make it free, make the roads much faster for pedestrians and bikers, etc etc etc. This will stop the protestors, and make the city better for everyone, car owners and the rest of the rabble alike. Or, if you aren't confident you can do that with the current numbers, join them next time.
If having to plan another route or plop your car in neutral and scroll through your phone instead of being at work (do you like your job that much??) makes you feel such violent rage, please remove yourself from society before you snap. I hear New Hampshire is looking for immigrants.
Sigh
Not today.
Yelling "FIRE!" in a crowded theater
Is also meant to be disruptive. So then I guess that's just fine by the way your argument goes. Calling someone the n-word is meant to be disruptive, too. Guess that's also peachy-keen. Same for bullhorns outside the mayor's house at any hour of the day or night.
Not everyone has the luxury of a commute that is reasonably feasible by public transit. Lots of less-well-off people live in communities with poor public transit access because the cost of housing in those places is lower -- in part due to bad access to transit. Many folks with kids who might otherwise take transit are forced to drive because of the difficulty of balancing work schedules with school & daycare hours. An extra half hour each way just isn't doable if the daycare closes at 5:30 and you have to pay penalties for being late.
It's all well and good to say transit should be better and also free, but that costs a bunch of money. The T is already facing a financial cliff when Covid bailout money runs out.
As you progressives LOVE to
As you progressives LOVE to spew at people, "check your privilege".
So now we know you're so noble and enlightened that you don't care what burdens this would place on your lessers. Congrats!
You poor thing
Maybe you should visit the Maritimes this weekend. Your tailpipe's monster child Fiona is visiting, too.
You are going to have to cultivate an appetite for much larger disruptions than this.
"Go live somewhere else"
Wow, garbage commentary from an anon. I'm beside myself.
I really don't care what point a 64 and a 67 year-old sought to make. Retirement time. Sit quietly and let my generation un(expletive) your mess.
News from the USA
What country do you live in where the aveage 64 and 67 year old can retire?
They'd be able to retire
If they didn't spend the last four decades spending their money like crack addicts.
Horseshit
Your privilege is showing, Will, and it ain't pretty.
Also showing
Your proclivity for spouting buzzwords that bear no relevance to the argument.
OK, Here's Some Critical Thinking for You
According to 2019 CNBC data, the average American spends about $164 a day. So $164 x 365 days in a year = $59,860
The average yearly salary the same year was = $51,916
According to BLS, the average salary in the same year was $48,672
Therefore, an average person spends $3000 MORE than they make. So even if they shaved $3000 a year, they would only break even.
Now to get to your claim that if people didn't spend like crack addicts, they could comfortably retire after 40 years.
So in this "four decades," the max you could make from your salary was $1,920,000. Having 2 mil to retire on sounds nice. That is, if you didn't pay for anything ever for 40 years. People have lives. They usually have no other choice but to pay rent, buy clothes, drive cars, pay for healthcare, and eat food. According to World Population Review, average American rent is $1,326 a month aka $15,912 yearly. So let's subtract rent alone from the average salary and multiple it by 40 years: $1,310,400.
That's great if you live in an empty house with no TV, bed, coffee maker, or any of the many other things that are reasonable for quality of life. Wow, can't wait to sit in an empty room for 40 years, never run heat or AC, walk to work, eat stone soup, and only have one set of clothes so I can retire. The American dream!
BTW, what's your current net? How much do you make a year and how much do you spend? Let's take that delta and multiply it by 40 years. Is that good livin' money?
Sources:
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/13/heres-how-much-the-average-person-spends...
https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2020/median-weekly-earnings-of-full-time-wo...(%24900).
https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/average-rent-by-state
Guess What?
When I retire I will be far more likely to resume the sorts of activities that I did before I had kids and a job with rules on it.
You can't be fired from being retired. That's why people this age are doing these things. They don't want to put people at extreme risk of "pile ons" for their civil disobedience.
Well
We all know that murdering with a car or truck seems to result in coddling by police.
When we can't seem to get all the traffic criminals out of their vehicles, I think blocking traffic is pretty damn minor.
Those people are selectively outraged
For instance, saw a fair share of comments calling incarceration, felonies and lawsuits in particular against the protestors for delaying emergency vehicles.
We applying that to countless motorists that intentionally block the box, double park, block bus lanes, etc and delay emergency vehicles? Of course not.
And to head deflections off at the pass, I'm not defending the protestors actions. Try not to get emotional about that.
If you want to enforce all
If you want to enforce all those laws , by all means go for it. I won't stop you. Add fire lane parking to the list of things that grind my gears
I'm also not suggesting we should execute the protestors either.
Maybe we all should just take others into account on the road...
Wishful thinking or a bad faith argument, who knows
Unfortunately, only BPD and to a degree BTD can enforce those laws.
At Post Office Square
Jill Stein was being a spokesperson for the group with puppets. Jill Stein, you know, the one who ran for President in order to split the vote in swing states just enough to push Trump over the top. Jill Stein who was seen having dinner in Moscow with Vladimir Putin and, wait for it Michael Flynn. Yes, Michael Flynn, the piece of scum advocating for the military to overthrow President Biden and install Trump as President.
For those you of don't know who Putin is, he is the thug who runs the country (for now - give it a week) that is one of the leading gas and oil exporters on the planet and the guy getting his ass kicked in the Ukraine. You know oil and gas, those things which cause climate change. Ah, Jill. Pretends to be a advocate for change, but really is an enabler of some of the worst right wing people on the planet.
On Summer Street - The activists brought a gas guzzling truck from Vermont filled with cement, you know cement, the thing in its production that is one of the leading causes of greenhouse gases. You could have gotten some sand at the town highway yard. It would have worked just as well. They were also passing around a bottle of water from Italy.
I never took public relations, but using a gas guzzling car (which came from Vermont - That's 12 to 14 gallons of evil gasoline round trip at a minimum) and passing around a bottle of water made from fossil fuels with water brought over from Europe, coupled with your spokesperson being a friend of that monster in Moscow is probably not the best way to demonstrate your concern for the environment.
They might have time for some reading in lockup
I'd suggest that they start with "How to Win Friends and Influence People"
Their hearts are in the right place
Their brains, though....hoo boy
Jill Stein ...
who couldn't even get elected to the Lexington Town Meeting.
Yeah.
For once I have to agree with Costello. When he's right, he's very right.
Ford F-250?!?
Do they justify driving the Ford F-250 because they couldn't fit the "sleeping dragons" into the back of their Prius? Seriously, they claim to be environmentalists but get arrested while using a truck that gets about 11mpg in the city. The hypocrisy of these idiots is comical.
It’s more about the big boys.
It’s more about the big boys. The giant corporations and conglomerates who pollute the earth for profits. This kinda argument that they should be using bamboo straws and driving teslas or whatever is classic gaslighting that shifts the blame to regular people
Purity fallacy
Purity fallacy
(If eventually prosecuted and
(If eventually prosecuted and convicted), can we sentence them to transportation? Fly them to Florida and chain them and their barrels to the gates of the Governor's mansion.
Great idea!
Let's do the same thing with everyone who protests against something you like.
Where are the state police
Where are the state police when the Nazis come to town? Oh, that’s right, they protect them.
Ambulance Argument
I don't agree with the protestor's tactics, the "blocking emergency access" argument is particularly weak.
If there was bad backup-up traffic (aka gridlock) and/or a typical car collision that blocks the road, no one would claim the people involved were responsible for preventing the ambulances from reaching the hospital. It's not as if people can pull over on the ramp from I-93.
If it's important to ensure ambulances and firetrucks are not delayed, one lane of every road should always be kept open and limited exclusively to these vehicles. (It's a good justification for bus and bike lanes -- they double as emergency lanes when needed.)
MGH is Right There.
Bringing traffic to a standstill by blocking the road is not the same as traffic congestion. Maybe someone can also explain to you how traffic accidents are not the same thing as sitting down in the road.
Traffic accidents don't exist
They are collisions.
And the system terrorizes itself with collisions because lousy drivers aren't taken off the road because driving is sacred, even if it is a privilege and not a right.
Different topic altogether.
Please don't employ the usual "hey look, squirrel!" school of debate.
Critical Mass Drives twice
Critical Mass Drives twice daily.
Huge difference between
Huge difference between traffic and road blockage. Traffic inches along and the cars can shimmy out of the way (Have you never been in traffic and had an ambulance pop up behind you???) Where as a road blockage completely blocks the road. There is no moving out of the way, you are stuck there for the duration.
Your argument also feels a little bit like the argument against gun control. Because if people did not have guns they would just use knives or bats or bananas.
What is one of the first things they do when arriving at an accident? They get people medical attention and then do their best to clear a lane of traffic. An accident is also an ACCIDENT. Walk into a store with crystal vases some time and just start smashing them. If the shop keeper reacted by calling the police would you say "nah nah nah don't call the police, I saw someone bump into a vase last week and you didn't get THEM arrested!". Of course not because one was an accident.
I am not sure where you have been but when someone does something really stupid like lodging their truck in an overpass we mock them and yes we do blame them. We even have a cute name for it.
Have you ever been on a playground and a kid accidentally hit another kid with the ball? What about when another kid then whips the ball right at someones nose. Do you think they get the same punishment?
I get you built up a strawman in order to justify a bike/bus lane but it just comes off as transparent.
What are you talking about?
Yes, I've been in gridlock traffic when an ambulance comes by and there's little or no shoulder. They inch forward at a walking speed at best. When it's a cop they sometimes get on the loudspeaker and yell at cars to move for what little help it does.
Where on the Leverett connector are cars supposed to pull over? Parts of it are too narrow of a shoulder for a 3rd car to pass two adjacent cars.
I don't understand your point
I don't understand your point. Even if you inch through traffic at a 1mph you are still moving. If you block traffic you don't move. 1 is greater than 0. Any movement is more advancement than no movement. I don't know how much simpler I could possibly make this for you. They showed up with barrels they planned to lock their arms in to form a chain so they would be unable to be removed...
They started they would do this at multiple locations and didn't say where. Please tell me if it was you that got into an accident, or a loved one , and your survival defended in being brought to a Boston hospital... Which route would you have them take? The one that is going at 1mph or the route where cars literally can't move?
The entire length of the
The entire length of the Leverett Connector is wide enough for two lanes of cars to squeeze to the sides so an ambulance can get through. Highway lanes are wide.
If people are sitting across the road chained to barrels filled with concrete, nothing is getting past.
"An accident is also an ACCIDENT."
Traffic crashes are fixable problems, caused by dangerous streets and unsafe drivers. They are not accidents.
Much like your smashing vases example, intent is important. Some illegal actions by motorists intentionally delay emergency vehicles. They aren't accidents.
If emergency vehicle access is truly a concern for many, then we should be advocating for better law enforcement AND networks of enforced bus lanes to provide easier access for these critical services. Or we can just parade out the talking point when its convenient.
I don't understand why people
I don't understand why people keep saying "maybe we should enforce XYZ then" , good do that. I'm all for enforcement all around, go nuts. My father was a driving school instructor, I hate watching people drive like maniacs. I know firefighters and how important response times are I hate people parking in fire lanes. Double parking drives me up the absolute wall especially because so often it happens in within feet of real parking spots.
You do get punished for accidents. If it was your fault your premium goes up. You can get arrested for vehicular homicide. Police pull you over for breaking the rules. Your car gets inspected every year.
I think most of us would prefer everyone just cut it out and just stop making commutes worse. It's already the worst parts of most people's days and scoffaws make it worse on all modes.
Crashes
They are not accidents, lets stop referencing that strawman.
And the police do not pull people over for breaking the rules in many cases, just post up along the Charles River Dam Road and note all the red light running, box blocking and bus lane using motorists. Oh and a few cyclists running reds too. The several troopers posted there over the last month did nothing to enforce the laws along that stretch.
Call them what you will. Even
Call them what you will. Even when negligent most "accidents" or incidents or whatever your preferred choice of words is... Most of the time the anticipated result isn't road blockage. That does not make them right but there's still a huge difference.
If you kill someone because you are negligent you end up with charges more like manslaughter. If you shoot to kill and plan it the result in court tends to be worse.
More car apologia
Don't worry, the motorist that was speeding and crashed into a building didn't actually intend to, it was just an accident.
Blocking the box as an example, certainly no one anticipates blocking an ambulance but they know damn well that they are blocking an intersection. That is no accident. Blocking the bus lane is no accident, double parking is no accident.
Again, the strawman here is carefully crafted to absolve intentional actions as accidents and its very obvious. Conjuring up charges for deaths caused by negligent driving is hilarious, as if that happens often.
What the Professionals Call Them
NHTSA: Crashes
Insurance Institute for Highway Safety: Collisions or Crashes
MassDOT: crashes
They are accidents. Even if
They are accidents. Even if they weren't, calling them accidents isn't even close to what "strawman" means.
The highway industry decided to ban the word "accident" in favor of "crash" because they thought it would somehow make people get into fewer accidents, as if calling it an "accident" makes people think there was nothing they could have done to prevent it. But they're not the boss of American English.
Fundraise
Pay the enemy Clear Channel for billboard space. Shame drivers. Most drivers aren't aware of hidden costs, as they are... hidden.
Looks dangerous
What if a vehicle comes speeding into them? They can't get out of the way, and at least a couple people will at least lose arms.
Also, I was visualizing 20yo trustafarians, but the arrestees seem to range from middle-aged to pushing retirement. I hope they can find some way to help effect positive change that doesn't risk their limbs while discrediting climate activists as crazies in the minds of motorists.
That's a horrible thought for
That's a horrible thought for anyone but this actually goes to my point about access to hospitals. If God forbid one of them sliced their arm on the Barrell how would we get them to a hospital if the ambulance couldn't get to them? Then they would blame the paramedics for not saving their arm.
Meanwhile
Your strawman just caught fire and is burning down the local conservation land due to the drought.
The Globe is reporting
15 of these clowns were reported during their morning temper tantrums.
And that was just the drivers
And that was just the drivers!
The apartment the first
The apartment the first couple lives in is valued at over 520K
The land and home of the second guy in NH is 450K
The last one is living in a condo worth 650K
And Newton guy I can't tell but the multifamily home is worth over 1M but I don't know how many units etc
They were driving big vehicles, they all seem to live in fairly nice places among people that burn a lot of fuel flying around etc. None of them seem to live in places that I would consider all that efficient...
Maybe they could all move into the large NH property together and use their resources towards the climate before blocking traffic for working people and those in need of medical care.
Remember, just because you Can cyber-stalk.
Doesn't mean you should. Ok, good talk.
He didn't tell them to own property
You want a slice of our community, you get your name published in the record. Fair game.
"Our community"...
...says the libertarian.
How's the view from the redoubt this morning, Will?
How the (expletive)
Is that a counter? I'm not anti-community, I just demand better critical thinking and less desire for state-sponsored abuse from the electorate.
Critical Thinking
A critical thinker would weigh the evidence from all perspectives and make an unbiased decision. You can find countless times where Will said something that had no critical thinking attached to it, and when a critical thinker showed he was incorrect, he just stops responding.
Often times Will takes the exact same debunked opinion and just repeats it again where the critical thinker hasn't posted yet.
We demand more critical thinking from Will, who btw usually votes abhorrently.
Hey, I take accountability
See last week where I misread NU as BU and said that Howard Stern and AOC went there. I ate my (expletive) on that one.
Cyber stalk? Their name and
Cyber stalk? Their name and city were listed on an arrest report. It took me three seconds per person to look. You make it sound like I'm in cyber command over here hacking into main frames. Copy, paste into Google, copy paste into Google boom. I didn't put down their addresses, who else lives in the units, their voting records, the square footage and layout of their homes including pictures... All things you could find with even minor digging. Don't make it sound like I doxxed them you silly silly unregistered account.
Edit: Also isn't this group one of those groups that literally protests in front of the homes of politicians? A move that I find in very poor taste personally. Still seems a bit hypocritical tho
Purity fallacy
Purity fallacy
Hi there... Where is the flaw
Hi there... Where is the flaw in my reasoning. If you are going to cite logical fallacies without defending them that is actually just a form of Appeal to Authority. Where you simply show up , use big words or logical idioms and think you (or want others to think) you dropped the mic. We should believe you simply because you say it is true and here's my phrase to prove it.
I did enjoy a few semesters of philosophy and logic back in my day. 7am Early Greek Thinkers class, I took a bus to reading about game theory along the way at 5am when I was 21, good times. So I'm happy to swap canned logical beignets back and forth if you'd prefer to do that rather than focus on the point.
Isn't that a waste of good
Isn't that a waste of good beignets?
I'd much rather sit somewhere in New Orleans with beignets & good coffee, discussing philosophy and logic.
That is something I can get
That is something I can get behind. There's a good sweet version at the Cunard Tavern I can't have anymore due to my reaction to gluten with marshmallow fluff that's amazing. I recommend checking it out sometime , perfect place to rhapsodize.
"How dare a person
"How dare a person constrained by society demand changes in that society!"
That's an old fallacy and it's getting very very tired.
It is also extremely intellectually lazy, no matter how much privileged rhetoric you spew in the name of isolated privilege and academic self gratification.
The world is burning. Nobody cares about colonial formalities.
Purity fallacy
Purity fallacy
How do these property values
How do these property values imply energy inefficiency or hypocrisy?
What is the maximum home value an environmental protestor should have, by your decree?
This was a calculated risk
Grassroots activist groups take the volunteers who have the least to lose in our carceral society.
If you are retired, you can't lose your job and be shitlisted for a conviction. If you are white the cops are less likely to beat you up. If you own your home free and clear you can't be evicted.
People who live in society should not be expected to live like Jesus Christ - outside of society with a vow of poverty - to be "qualified" to change things. That is the Purity Fallacy. And appeals to formal logic are bunk when that logic is predicated on falsehoods - like the idea that people have to be "pure" in order to advocate for structural change.
I say this a lot
But that first paragraph really is a terrific argument in favor of UBI.
Periodic reminder that this ideology was in the 2020 Dem primary, but voted against in favor of a septagenarian weirdo who couldn't get the job in 1988.
Weird detail to bring up in this context
I mean, he wasn't even actively seeking the 1988 job in 1988, that campaign was suspended in September of 1987. But what does this have to do with the story at and how did you arrive there?
Forgive me
I was three.
Swirly (as she often does) made a salient point about activism being blunted by financial incentives, namely, the common one among many of us to retain employment to pay for shelter.
Ask the folks of Stockton, CA how UBI is working. Quite well, I've read: Amazing how well folks function positively when getting money isn't used as a cudgel against them.
Andrew Yang Loses to Donald Trump!
Yeah, that would have been a muuuuuch better outcome. Guy couldn't even get the job in 2020! If your argument is that a person's worth is based on if a person can win an election or not, imagine how sad a candidate is who lost to Joe Biden . Also that would mean Trump better than lots of people who lost to him. Because he got elected!
Yes, it would have
Would have gotten us to the revolution faster instead of another four years of treading water.
How's your household budget today?
What Revolution?
That's a bold claim to just throw out. The one thing I learned is that ANYTHING might happen with Trump. He's way more likely to militarize his army as the leader of America's military, and through his fanbase who literally go to support rallies. So his opposition would have to get through the military and militias? Then what? A recently overthrown country would be good for stock markets and economies?
My household spend is awesome. I comfotably go on trips or events almost every weekend. Also, why don't we talk to thousands of people who had their loans forgiven, or just to my friend who owns a business that was given a big relief by the Biden administration. They suddenly lost most if not all of a giant payment they have had to make every month since they were 18.
Government shouldn't be picking winners
But I'm glad your friends won one instead of corporations one time.
gas fumes! bus exhaust!
Really doesn't help "the cause".
Who thought this a good idea? Epic fail.
It's all about feeling good
It's all about feeling good about themselves and trying to put some meaning in their narcissistic meaningless lives.
So
Narcissism isn't just confined to the drivers who act like everyone else causes traffic except them, and everyone should get out of their way?
I'd say that those who drive everywhere and never even think about it, then react violently at the mere suggestion that they can do things differently are the true narcissists living meaningless lives.
So you think climate activists are disruptive?
Try climate change.
Maybe call someone in Halifax NS on Sunday. If they can answer, ask them how their Saturday with Fiona went.
She's going be visiting at high forward speed at a cat 2 or 3.
.
.
Morrisey Blvd.
How many days a year is that blocked by rising seas?