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As Mass and Cass becomes an encampment again, Boston wins state approval to rebuild the Long Island Bridge
By adamg on Thu, 08/10/2023 - 10:12am
The state Department of Environmental Protection yesterday granted Boston the permit it needs to rebuild the Long Island Bridge, which will let it re-open Long Island as a recovery and treatment campus.
The Globe reports the city of Quincy expressed its usual outrage and vowed to keep fighting the bridge, no matter how many times it loses.
Axios reports on the growing crisis at Mass and Cass, which has once again turned into a homeless encampment, but this time so violent that some non-profits have pulled workers out of the area in fear for their safety.
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Comments
Get It Done
There's a lot of opinions on Long Island like "It should be a park". "There should be a ferry". "Treatment should be in the neighborhoods" and of course the response of Squantum is like everyone opposed to a rail trail "It will lead to crime (i.e. Black People) in the neighborhood".
1. - Park - There are lots, lots, lots of other parks. There are lots of harbor islands and places along the Harbor where one can enjoy themselves. There are a lot more parks than when I was a kid, and you can actually go into the water without getting a disease despite what certain city councilors say (JFC Erin - Are you trying to not be mayor?).
2. A Ferry - Think of your commute down to Heath Street on the trolley. Now think everyone else on the trolley is whacked out on horse and one person starts wiggin out and there is a chain reaction of wiggin out. Just think about that scenario plus you can't get off unless you are Katie Ledecky. Yup, ferry - sure thing.
3. Treatment in the Neighborhoods - See Mass and Cass and let me know how that is going.
4. "Crime" - Such a racist trope.
Long Island functioned for decades for those in need of services. It worked.
The bridge is the way to save lives and neighborhoods in Boston.
The thing I don't like is out
The thing I don't like is out of sight, out of mind. Let's put them on that island and forget about the many systemic issues that are causing this, including and almost importantly, housing. I am homeless though i am not an addict or an alcoholic and I have a decent job.
The 276
You also know that there were buses which went each day from Boston Medical to Long Island and back? Not everyone stays during the day.
I had a now deceased family member who went through every type of treatment facility in terms of length, location, and for lack of a better term, class status. I know the treatment facility he was in in Newport was nicer than any hotel he had ever stayed at. There were also places where the doors were locked from the outside.
You can sign yourself out of treatment if you want.
Long Island offers some semblance of control and most importantly controlled substances control. You are not getting that on Topeka Street right now.
not allowed to stay during the day
I used to work out there and all shelter residents left every day. Every once in a while, they would allow people to stay because of cold temperatures or snow. The detox was hospitalization, so those people would stay.
I understand this
But the priority is getting seriously ill people the treatment they need, regardless whether society can Learn A Lesson from it. And having a dedicated, private, somewhat isolated campus makes a lot of sense for treating a community-wide drug addiction problem:
1) Being a drug addict or severely mentally ill person is isolating due to social stigma, so it really does help to be in a community of people with some understanding of what you're going through.
2) With Long Island specifically, it is much easier to control what substances enter and leave the island, notice people who aren't supposed to be there, etc. This not only makes it harder for drug dealers, it protects homeless people from well-off sadists/rapists who prey on them.
3) People with comorbid mental illness on Long Island who are acting erratically will be more likely to meet with a social worker / psychiatric nurse than a cop.
4) Neighbors loudly complain about neighborhood halfway homes and treatment facilities. As irritating and immoral as these people may be, I am not convinced that "neighborhood integration" is necessarily a good strategy. When I was recovering from schizophrenia in a Somerville halfway home, I found it very depressing to be surrounded by happy young adults whose lives were basically on-track. So going back to point 1, I think the relative separation might be a win-win for very sick addicts.
5) The fact that housing is (somewhat) resppnsivle for this is a strong argument for dedicating specific housing to people who need to recover from illness. Otherwise slumlords and gentrifiers will snatch up the property. Boston will not be able to build enough housing stock for landlords to willingly sign leases with unemployed drug addicts.
I have mental illness. I have
I have mental illness. I have had almost all of my life and I will be on medicine for it for all of my life. There is no complete recovery that I have seen. In my case, hiding away is what I do best and is not good for me so I would want to be where I could be around other people. COVID gave me an excuse to hide away and I did it exceptionally well.
Thank you for your clarity
Thank you for the clarity on this subject.
I think it's really about #2. Keeping folks away from the people who prey on them so they have a successful recovery.
That's the issue with Mass & Cass now. They congregate there (or initially did so) because of a drug treatment clinic at BMC. The drug dealers know this and just would hangout nearby trying to lure people in for either more dope or benzi's to get them back into the drug use cycle.
Now if this is moved to Long Island, that can't happen. Long Island is a long trip for some drug dealer, and I'd hope to think the island (and bridge) would be limited access to prevent those folks from entering the property.
Also being on an island has some other bonuses, such as lots of outdoor space. Being outdoors and participating in activities outdoors (sports, walking, or just relaxing) can have a very positive effect on recovery and mental health. Team sports can build self confidence. Or even having a space where you can sit, think or meditate without worry of police, NIMBY neighbors or predators waiting in the shadows can have such a positive effect.
All of this is key for people to have a successful recovery. This is going to be a win win for everyone and hope it helps get people into a path of recovery and wellness.
the isolation
makes it a lot harder for predatory drug dealers to prey on the vulnerable. i agree that it isn't ideal to put all the homeless on an island out of sight, but on the whole it is a net positive compared to the "let all the addicted homeless congregate near the methadone clinic and tacitly permit open drug dealing" that we have now.
Point taken
But they’ve been in sight, in mind for 9 years now and it hasn’t sparked any breakthroughs. If anything, the concern over that aspect of it has given cover to almost a decade of inaction.
Out of sight is a good thing.
Out of sight is a good thing. People are tired of dealing with addicts hogging entire benches on trains and leaving needles everywhere. If we can’t send them back to whatever suburb they came from then ship them off to an island. They are welcome to rejoin society once they get their life in order.
Poor Kinopio
If he saw a junkie on a bicycle his brain would burst
Sure, but it will be years and lots of work
Building a new bridge to open up Long Island again is a necessary first step, but it's no panacea. The problems now are many times worse than a decade ago, before fentanyl replaced heroin on the street, and the programs as constituted on the island then would be woefully short of what's needed today, and moreover all those programs will have to start from scratch again. I actually lived there for a total of 5 years between 2003 and 2011 in 3 different programs plus the shelter and even worked in the 2 detoxes, so I'm very familiar with what's there. After a decade without upkeep, it's likely an extensive redevelopment is necessary, and that can't even start until the bridge is completed. Entirely new programs with strong medical components specifically built to address fentanyl and polydrug addictions must be built because the old programs won't work. Way more security will be necessary now, or things will deteriorate quickly. And this is just scratching the surface. It's a massive undertaking, and will take years before it's ready for clients.
I feel like #3 is also a "Yes
I feel like #3 is also a "Yes And"
People will want or seek treatment in neighborhoods before or instead of traveling out to long island, but that does not in anyway preclude the need for it.
What do you propose, . . .
in the interim six years before this is up and running?
If this is the solution, apparently the CoB doesn't see Mass & Cass as a priority issue.
Shirley you jest, . . . .
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/09/19/business/is-there-future-long-isl...
I posted this elsewhere but Shirley, unintentionally, lays out Quincy's development concerns.
Nothing to do with a treatment center or the occasional bus.
What’s the state of the buildings
I feel like by the time the bridge is complete, it will be a bridge to nowhere.
The city has actually been maintaining the buildings
At least minimally, so the pipes don't burst, etc.
But the city's plan also calls for extensive renovations.
eh
The maintenance was always minimal. That is how the bridge thing happened. When I worked out there, there were always issues like rusty nails sticking out, broken locks, etc.
The good news is
Now we have a place we can throw money at for a treatment center. I really hope after all the lawsuits and public outcry (from both sides) will result in one stellar treatment center.
Where's the tents?
I drove by there this past Sunday and saw no tents. There was some debris, and one guy and his dog sleeping on the street, but no tents as far as I could tell.
Atkinson Street, 112
Atkinson Street, 112 Southampton, across from 745 Mass Ave
Were you on Southampton Street?
My understanding is that most of the problem is on that street, and the side streets leading off it, not at the actual intersection of Mass and Cass.
Most of the unhoused addicts stay on these two side streets.
Most of the tents are on Atkinson and Topeka Streets with a few out into the edge of the corner there toward Southampton St. I was there a couple weeks ago and lots of tents and hundreds of people at noonish on a Friday.
The bridge should be open to the public
unlike the previous one. And any part of Long Island that isn't being used by either the recovery campus or Camp Harbor View should be open to the public as well, as part of the Harbor Islands State and National Park.
Maybe, Maybe not
I used to feel that way. But the argument for using Long Island as a recovery facility is that it naturally isolates those who being treated so they aren't being prayed upon by dealers and others as they would when on the street. (Or not to the same degree.) The lack of "distractions" is a huge benefit and why it's so important to reopen the bridge.
As much as I'd like to use it as a park personally, if keeping the general public out makes it more effective as a treatment facility, that's a reasonable trade-off.
Although I do hope they at least have a few days after the bridge is open when it's open to the public as a one-time event.
Tuberculosis hospital
It was built as a hospital for people with infectious disease. It was remote for that purpose. I remember thinking it was ironic that it was not available during covid. The whole island is honey combed with tunnels.
My father used to work for
My father used to work for Bay Cove and he had said the state put a dock there. I thought they were working towards opening it up.
No
No, there are plenty of islands in the harbor island system that we can go to. Why do we need another one?
As I stated and echoed the person above. Allowing public access would bring in the people that we DONT want on that island. The drug dealers and people who prey on folks in their recovery process.
Keep it closed for the folks in recovery. We will have far better outcomes than it being used for a park, when so many others exist.
We can afford to lose one island so we don't lose another life to the opioid epidemic.
The bridge is ten years away
If the drug crisis gets worse and it will we will all be in agreement that "We need a bigger island."
Finally
Long Island is essential to sobriety, safety, and a chance to recover. Some folks think that the private security guards out on MM are protecting the drug dealers, and for the record, those who cry stigma have never been stigmatized themselves. Long Island should be a place of recovery, not harm reduction. Some of the repair work can be done by folks who are trying to get back into society. Haven't we had enough of this social experiment to allow people to shoot up, sell themselves for money, publically defecate and cause a larger community to take their kids out of the playgrounds and stores to lock all their goods up, and yet we keeping doing this and expecting things will get better?
Only one regular size detox
Long island shelter housed 400 people overnight and then shipped them back to Boston in the morning. The 276 bus ran pretty late, steadily picking people up from near BMC. This did not prevent all homelessness, but the Mass and Cass encampment came after the island shut down. Basically, if you wanted to sleep rough, you needed to avoid that area because the police would broom you onto the bus or to Pine St.
Andrews detox was on the 2nd floor of the DMH shelter I worked at. We had 42 beds, so they probably had the same or slightly less. I know DYS had a male residential program, but I don't remember any other substance abuse services other than the detox.
Maybe there was another long term substance abuse program that came after I worked there in the nineties but I don't know. I am just saying that Long Island prevented Mass & Cass, but not necessarily through treatment.
Bay Cove had a detox center
Bay Cove had a detox center there.
Same place
Andrews Detox was the origin of Bay Cove Services. In the ninties there were 32 beds.
My Dad had a job there in
My Dad had a job there in early 00's driving patients to doctor's appointments. I used to pick him up for work and drive the 2 mph on that bridge.
What's the over/under
for the first luxury hotel/condo development?
At least Michelle has started to return John Fish's phone calls.
A solution for Mass & Cass?
No! Maybe a bridge and some buildings a $billion and six years from now.
What do we do in the interim?
Hi Mayor Koch!
Now we know your alt, at least.
Simple question Pete, ...
What do we do in the six year interim?
Nada, crickets, .....?
Thanks for you concern.
Different Question
But you know we can and should do more than one thing at a time right, Mr. Mayor?
We can provide better treatment and housing now at facilities like Shattuck while rebuilding Long Island for the future.
But yeah, this argument that secretly this is all about John Fish building a casino or something on the island is a NIMBY conspiracy theory for the rubes promulgated by people like you.
Pete - Don't Ask So Many Questions
The Mayor and the other cronies living in Trying To Be Crow Point In Hingham can only type so fast with those Hamburger Helper clown gloves on all the time.
Secretly?
Both Fish and Mahty openly advocated for development . When it didn't go forward, the bridge suddenly was unsafe.
Long Island is also designated as an Economic Development Zone by the CoB and is zoned for general business.
It difficult I know but try to keep up.
You're right, I can't keep up with your "logic"
So now the conspiracy is John Fish and Walsh had the bridge condemned...why exactly?
Just keep throwing every NIMBY argument at the wall till something sticks, I guess.
I'll admit, I'm having trouble keeping up
So your argument is that the city of Boston has been trying to build this bridge with the argument that it's for a recovery and treatment campus, but that it's actually so they can sell the land to developers for luxury housing?
If that's their plan - why continue to have an expensive legal fight with the city of Quincy, which is primarily objecting due to the treatment center? Seems like this could have all been solved with a 5-minute call.
Actually, . . . . .
Quincy has offered to pay 1/2 the cost of a ferry to the treatment center. The treatment center has never been the issue.
The issue is the CoB's refusal to negotiate development rights on the island that is zoned for business and designated as an "Economic Opportunity Zone"
If the CoB was willing to negotiate, this could have been approved eight years ago.
Former Mahty supporter but I saw the damage he was doing here, the Seaport and other areas. Got outa town just in time.
Not a Koch supported by any means but he is doing something Mahty or Wu wouldn't do.
STAND UP FOR A NEIGHBORHOOD!!
?
You mean you don't want a bus going a few days along Dorchester Street? That's standing up for the neighborhood?
You already have Boston cops going to and from Moon Island.
Squantum - Not Hingham and never will be. Don't ever forget it.
Now go back and get more talking points from whomever you are working for, if they are not getting another facelift, and counter. Get good ones because the logic of the points you are posting make no sense.
I have no . . . .
interest in any commercial real estate in Boston or Quincy.
How 'bout you JC?
it is not a few days
It is every day from 5ish to after midnight. Then 5am to when ever they manage to pack everyone up. My people at the DMH shelter had a shuttle from north quincy T station with limited runs. If our people were late they would catch that Long Island shuttle. It seemed to run on the hour. But buses have changed since then. They aren't as loud or polluting.
It’s gotta be deeper than that
Surely The City of Quincy’s constant attempts to prevent the maintenance of the bridge has to be a part of the conspiracy. How much is Koch going to make off of this?
To answer your question
Exactly zero zero. Per the MassMapper tool, Long Island is protected as open space into perpetuity, so any chance of private development there is extremely unlikely, if not impossible. I'm not sure if it falls under Article 97, legislation of some sort, if it was a deed restriction or some other similar restriction from when the City obtained it, or if that restriction was one of the terms of the Boston Harbor Islands National Park but any change to that status would likely require a legislative supermajority, approval by the Land Court, and/or some sort of federal level approval.
Is it part of the national park now?
And if so, doesn't it need to be open to the public?
Yes
It is, but there's no requirement that it be open to the public. Similarly, as in most other US national parks, public entry may be restricted in wilderness areas, utility and service areas, staff housing areas, and areas with historic or cultural artifacts, and areas with natural resources endangered species, etc.
Shirley you jest, . . . .
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/09/19/business/is-there-future-long-isl...
gotta say
g, you’re transparently working backwards from an anti-Wu position here.
you’ve fixated on the lowest possible piece of hanging fruit – what, you mean fixing the bridge and renovating the island facilities will take time?! – and then added a bunch of loosely related pieces of pedantry as evidence.
what is your position on reopening the Long Island bridge?
Boston wins state approval to
Well then, this will be fixed in a jif, and we'll all live happily ever after.
No, it's not an immediate fix
But I suspect you know that.