Roxbury, Jamaica Plain residents want assurances their streets won't be clogged by suburbanites driving into town to see women's soccer at White Stadium
The team that won a professional women's soccer franchise for Boston tonight sketched out a preliminary transportation plan for roughly 20 home games a year at a renovated White Stadium in Franklin Park that could include shuttle vans from for-fee parking areas in more remote areas in places, possibly as far away as areas near Rte. 128, I-93 near the Neponset and north of Jackson Square.
In a Zoom meeting, however, skeptical residents on both the Jamaica Plain and Roxbury sides of the stadium, doubted people would pay to park and ride shuttle vans - or take the Orange Line to Green Street and then make a Euro-style "march to the stadium" - and would instead flood their streets looking for some free on-street parking.
And they were not having it.
"We will not accept any traffic exiting from the park onto Seaver Street," Roxbury resident Louis Elisa said, going so far as to threaten legal action otherwise.
Jamaica Plain resident Peter DeCotis similarly said the team better not be sending more traffic down Walnut Avenue. Other residents questioned whether anybody from the as yet unnamed team or its traffic consultant has actually driven on the roads around the stadium and park, questioning one possible route for shuttle vans from Green Street down Glen Road into the park.
Residents said the city could go a long way in soothing their fears by letting them turn their streets into resident-only parking zones. But BTD's Nick Gove said the city currently has a moratorium on new resident-only areas. He did not say why, but said that possibly by the time White Stadium is ready for pro soccer, the city will have eased that restriction.
DeCotis said any traffic plan that does not include residential-only parking just wouldn't fly.
The city selected the team, owned by a group of local entrepreneurs called Boston Unity Soccer Partners, earlier this year to help renovate White Stadium, an increasingly dilapidated field that still has damage from a fire decades ago but which still serves as a field for a number of BPS high schools and which hosts a number of community events.
Boston Unity would restore the stadium's ability to host up to 10,000 people at a time and provide a world-class professional soccer field that would remain open in non-game hours to BPS students - who would also gain modern locker rooms, indoor training facilities and even classrooms.
White Stadium "will always be owned by Boston Public Schools and we will never be selling White Stadium," Morgan McDaniel, the city's deputy chief of operations said.
The stadium itself will only have a small number of spaces, for team buses, medical crews and the media.
Brian Beisel of Howard Stein Hudson, the team's traffic consultants, said the firm started out its research by looking at how the US Open handled large numbers of spectators - up to 20,000 a day - in Brookline in 2022. He showed a map with areas where the team might look to site remote parking lots for soccer fans coming in from the north, south and west - who would have to pay for spaces in advance - but would then get free shuttle service to and from the stadium. The team has not picked specific locations or lot sizes; Beisel said feedback from meetings like tonight would help the team come up with a more definitive plan.
For people who don't want to pay to park, he said the team would emphasize getting to the stadium by public transit, either by the Orange Line or commuter rail, although Beisel acknowledged there isn't that much commuter-rail transportation on weekends. He said he's still looking at how to get fans from Orange Line stops to the stadium. Forest Hills would have the least impact on residents, because the route would consist of Morton Street and Circuit Drive in the park. But Green Street is closer to the stadium and Glen Road only has parking on one side, which would lessen the impact on residents, he said. Also possibly in contention: Jackson Square, with its connection to the T's "bus rapid transit" lanes on Columbus Avenue.
He added the team would also look at a dedicated Uber/Lyft pickup area as well as a BlueBikes "valet" service for people renting bikes for the last leg of their trip.
Residents suggested he actually drive the area; one volunteered to drive Beisel and others around. They also questioned his contention that soccer fans wouldn't try to park in the Franklin Park Zoo's parking lots.
Peter Fraunholtz suggested the team widen its possible search for remote parking to towns such as Sudbury, Lexington and Newbury, where he said the girls who play youth soccer who would really want to go to games, could board buses to keep their car traffic off neighborhood streets.
Allegra Sandak, who said she lives five doors from the stadium and is thrilled to introduce her daughters and son to women's soccer, raised a question about the 345 days a year when the team isn't playing at White Stadium: With all the new facilities leading to greater use of the stadium, how will that traffic be handled? McDaniel said the city has only begun to look at increased use of a renovated stadium, but that traffic management would definitely be part of the considerations.
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Boston Breakers Average Attendance
2017 - 2,896
2016 - 3,472
2015 - 2,863
2014 - 2,437
2013 - 2,427
2012 - The Team Folded Because of Lack of Interest.
2011 - 4,444
2010 - 4,490
2009 - 4,665
19,000 seems, a tad optimistic.
I liked going to the Breakers. I'd drive to Harvard or Dilboy and found parking. No problem.
Based on the numbers I see above, there, might be, um, a lot of optimism.
I wish them the best, but remember, Arborway parking lot could be used as a shuttle spot until a final stadium plan with the Revs somewhere in Everett is done. I will make sure I drive up and down Walnut Street and Sigourney Street even if it is out of the way if I go to a game just for fun.
PS - You are not going to get a lot of Mommy Tanks rolling in from Hingham filled with Cassidys and Niamhs and parking at Mass and Cass or anywhere within a 1/2 mile of it. The traffic engineers should know that.
Yimbys gotta Nimby
This whole thing is amazing. The JP Yimby crowd all of a sudden doesn't want economic development because it is an inconvenience for them. But don't these greedy developers know that they bought their condos near a beat up old park so they could let their dogs run off leash?!?!
This project could make White Stadium an incredible venue for youth & high school sports for the city. But don't these developers know that their kids don't go to BPS (maybe BLS)? So why do we need a new athletic facility for BPS students when they send their kids to Park and then off to Dexter?
And where are the complaints when Franklin Park hosts the BAA Half Marathon? And did the JP/Rox crowd conveniently forget how Franklin Park, including White Stadium, used to be the crown jewel for MIAA State, NCAA & International Pro Cross Country Meets?
If you buy a home next to the biggest park in the city, EXPECT PEOPLE TO USE IT.
The JP YIMBY crowd?
Were they the ones at this meeting? They were probably busy with better things like building more housing.
Pretty sure these are the NIMBYs.
I could be wrong, though. Enlighten me.
You might be wrong...
A quick google search shows that Peter DeCotis is a long time volunteer for Habitat for Humanity. He spoke at the meeting, "Jamaica Plain resident Peter DeCotis similarly said the team better not be sending more traffic down Walnut Avenue." But maybe that is a different Peter DeCotis.
Louis Elisa, who has a MA in city and regional planning from Harvard, might be the same person who is Director of Development at the Seaport Advisory Council. (But he is from Roxbury, not JP)
I think there is a very high chance that both people quoted in the article are pro-development.
"Peter Fraunholtz suggested the team widen its possible search for remote parking to towns such as Sudbury, Lexington and Newbury, where he said the girls who play youth soccer who would really want to go to games, could board buses to keep their car traffic off neighborhood streets." - Peter does know that JP has youth soccer, same as the South End, South Boston, Dorchester, Charlestown, West Roxbury and Roslindale?
Speaking as a co-founder (who
Speaking as a co-founder (who is very much in support of the White Stadium proposal!) of the actual "JP YIMBY" organization, I can attest that none of these people have ever spoken at or attended any of our meetings, and I can't recall any of them ever advocating for housing in JP in any context.
Not sure how you came to the conclusion that they are YIMBYs...
This summer I heard a lot of
This summer I heard a lot of grumbling from condo owners on Revere Beach about the Sand Castle Festival. They bought condos on the first public beach in America and are upset that people want to use one of the most accessible urban beaches in the region.
Residents of Salem have been complaining about people visiting in October for Halloween.
We see this in many places and it mostly seems fueled by people who recently moved in. They paid big money for their views of spaces paid for my the city, state or federal government and then expect it to always be quiet and tranquil despite the fact that these spaces are very well known and highly coveted. This is the same issue venues in Boston and Cambridge have had where people move in around or above nightlife spots and then are shocked they are noisy and attract people.
If you don't want to deal with people near you then don't buy or rent in highly coveted areas surrounded by publicly funded spaces. I spent most of my life living on dead end streets away from noise areas that could be used by others. In most of those places I have had a reasonable expectation that people not be milling around outside because there is no reason for them to be out there. I don't get the convenience or the view or the cache of living next to a park and that is ok. I know what I want and I make sure that is the area where I live. It also tends to be less expensive then living right off a park or on a beach.
I suspect much of this has to
I suspect much of this has to do with the way journalists (not Adam tho) report on the topic. There are thousands of people now living on Revere beach and 44,000 people living in Salem. If a few dozen of them decide to complain about the sand castles and witches, newspapers will report it as "residents upset about sand castles/witches" but if election results are any indication, the vast majority of people living in these places are overwhelmingly supportive of these events. The same goes for opposition to residential development, sports, stadiums, or anything really. I think one of the biggest risks to the future of our cities is that politicians read these headlines (or listen to the handful of cranks who call their offices every single day) and assume that they reflect real popular opinion.
JP YIMBY here
And I’m all for it. Not sure where you your information.
Or, hear me out now.
Not everyone in the same neighborhood has the exact same idea. Some can say yes but still others, by some miracle, can say no.
How is this economic
How is this economic development? How does a private company charging to enter the stadium benefit the people who live near Franklin Park? Half marathons and cross country meets don't draw thousands of people so why are you bringing them up? Having an opinion about a public park and what is done there is completely different than telling someone what they can or can't do on their private land.
BAA Half Marathon = 9,000 runners + family & friends
But go on…
They do ask participants not to park in the neighborhood
Just don't ask me where I park when I run the Half.
none of this makes sense
Love the thought of White Stadium finally being renovated. Love the idea of a women's pro soccer team around Boston. Love the challenge of convincing neighbors to sacrifice on behalf of others. But not a chance in hell that a women's soccer team will draw suburbanites into Roxbury either by car, by train or by bike. Asking way too much of people to make that sort of effort.
Take a look at the Fenway.
Take a look at the Fenway. Your life will be hell. No one uses shuttles. The Fenway Park shuttle plan didn't work. They park (and piss) wherever they want. You will see many problems. Businesses will cater to the park and not the neighborhood. This is before park expansion and the added concerts. Find a stadium in the suburbs and they can shuttle you there. That is a good shuttle plan!
Park AND piss?
People coming to a (shuffles papers) women's soccer game may park wherever they want, but I would venture to guess that the bathroom habits of women's soccer fans may be slightly different than their male-baseball counterparts.
The men who golf regularly at Franklin Park will volunteer
to teach the female soccer fans how to select the best spots for discrete arboreal urination.
Having lived and worked around Fenway for 25 years
The area is 1000x better now than in the late 90s in terms of safety and it being a real neighborhood and not just rundown lowrise buildings next to a stadium. On game day there are occasionally annoying fans but most of the time you wouldn't even know a game is being played.
Flame me if you want but the Fenway area is one of the best parts of the city. It's pretty safe, there's mostly good transportation options, and good restaurants. The worst part isn't Fenway Park, it's the prices. The cheap restaurants and housing are long, long gone.
You're so very, very wrong
Fenway today is a glitzy, soulless exercise in pandering to those for whom "going to Fenway" is a social occasion to which watching a baseball game is a far distant second. The neighborhood was gritty back then, but never as dangerous as once-a-year suburban visitors would have you believe. It was also not chock full of annoying suburban yups.
You are both kind of correct
I don't disagree with you that the neighborhood was both decent and interesting 25 years ago. But much of what has come since then has also been a plus. Many of the great OG things about the Fens are still there, like the neighborhood surrounding Peterborough St. And what has disappeared was mostly warehouses, auto repair, and taxi garages. Those are things the neighborhood no longer needs. The housing and commerce that replaced those locations did not destroy the other elements.
Now if you want to talk Kenmore Square, yeah, that was ruined and I can't stand passing through there, knowing what it once was.
That would require soccer to
That would require soccer to be far more popular than it actually is.
The money to rehab White Stadium is nice
but where are the community benefits. A city normally tries to attract sports teams to reap the benefits like increased business at local bars and restaurants and other businesses and jobs for local residents.
I see very little, if any, benefits for the community. What
local restaurant or bar gains business? Where are the jobs in retail, vending, or parking? Who would invest in a local business if the plan is to move down the road?
Fenway is surrounded by bars, restaurants, and vending. Gillette is getting there.
For the “No Name”s* games, I think we are looking at food trucks and pop up tents.
*A traditional Boston name.
Is the community benefit
Not the rehabbing of White Stadium and letting BPS keep it?
Shuttles won’t work
Shuttles won’t work. Most people are going to come into the city for the game and then go out to dinner afterwards while they’re here. No one is coming to watch this game and go home promptly, highly unlikely. THere is absolutely no parking near White Stadium on the JP side or the side entering from circuit drive. The only way they can guarantee no outsiders parking on your streets is to build a garage or have a dedicated tow to get anyone without a decal. Best case scenario is this team folds after a few seasons and then you have a new stadium. Traffic will be a nightmare for these shuttles. That’s a broken promise if I’ve ever seen one.
How dare people park on streets
For … 11 games, each of which is about 2 hours long … so maybe 33 hours.
So first, it's not like the streets near the Stadium are empty of parking. Sure, people may fill up the spaces, but for a few hours 11 days per year it might be harder to park there. I think people can manage. If it's really bad people may plan around not trying to arrive home during those 33 hours per year (0.37% of all hours of the year!). You know, like anyone who lives near Fenway expects hours of traffic 81 times per year. (Sure, yeah, they have stickers … )
This is some parking. The zoo parking, a lot on Circuit Drive, and you could probably let people head-in park on Circuit Drive a few times per year. There's also a huge, grassy parking lot across the street that some folks walk around with long sticks and short balls every so often.
11 home games, or 20?
11 home games, or 20?
Resident parking is disgusting.
The parking lots you mention
The parking lots you mention fit maybe 100 cars. And the zoo parking lot is full of people going to the zoo. There is not enough room in the neighborhood for thousands of cars. They would have to get the majority of people to the game by T or shuttle. Its the only way to won't be a complete disaster. I'm not hopeful.
Fenway is completely different. Its closer to the subway and commuter rail. It has parking garages. Anyone who moves there knows to expect big events.
Zoo hours
The Franklin Park Zoo does have "Boston Lights" so some of the year they are open after 5 p.m. But most of the time they close at 5 or 6.
Basically all of the soccer games are scheduled for Friday and Saturday evenings. So a lot of the time, the parking would be completely unoccupied. It won't serve everyone, but it also won't serve no one.
I'd be interested to know how many predicted transporation "complete disasters" have turned out to be nothingburgers. I'm old enough to remember when the Longfellow Bridge shutdown was going to be a huge disaster for traffic for years and after a couple of weeks no one noticed.
I mean, the neighborhood literally already has thousands of cars. It doesn't have thousands of parking spaces, but it has buses and it's only about a half mile to walk from Green Street on the Orange Line if you can't find a space or wind up parking on the Pond Side of JP. So, sure, you can predict a complete disaster and when this gets built and people go and find parking and walk to the game and it's pretty much fine, come back and let me know.
If they start games at 6:30 p.m. and a bunch of parking spots in the neighborhood open up around 9, there are probably people who won't mind that too much.
Parking after zoo hours
To be clear, I favor the team being located at White Stadium, but it's not true that the zoo parking lot isn't used after the zoo closes. I bike through Paystead fairly often in the evenings and there are always a lot of people there. People use the softball fields (and cricket pitch), and also there is a fairly significant number of people having tailgating type cookouts. Sometimes there are even a few food trucks. It's a part of the park that is well used all day long, especially on weekends.
But again, I don't think that should be a consideration because first, it's not every Friday and Saturday that the games will be scheduled, and second, a lot of people will not try to park there, because they'll learn quickly enough that there won't be many spots. Just as is the case with Fenway Park, the best way to get to White Stadium is not by personal motorized vehicle.
Take the bus with the rest of us
Some parts of the MBTA continue to function, like the buses. Take the 22 out of either Ruggles or Ashmont.
This could be an opportunity for the MBTA to showcase what it can do. Showcase the 22 route, not just on game day, extra cleaning, security, maybe run electric buses if available and shuttles if needed.
Maybe the NoNames can pick up the fare on game days.
The 22 runs every 15 minutes
The 22 runs every 15 minutes on Saturdays. Even with bendy buses, capacity is a drop in the bucket compared to proposed stadium attendance. Would the T run any extra service?
Or the 16 from either Forest
Or the 16 from either Forest Hills or Andrew, which conveniently runs through the middle of the park.
Shuttles worked fine for the US Open
And that had twice as many spectators and happened every day for two weeks. This should work okay, which is probably good enough. Lots of people will be coming from closer distances, some like myself, will bike to the stadium, others will walk, take buses, etc. It's not going to be 10,000 suburban drivers converging on Walnut Ave.
Quincy?
So this plan is for a fan to park in Quincy (among other places), take a bus to Franklin Park, then return to Quincy after the game? Is this a joke?
I don't think that's going to happen. This team will be out of business by the end of the first season.
Bad plan. Bad location. But I guess the City of Boston should take the money to renovate White Stadium and run.
If people are going to park
If people are going to park and ride from somewhere, Quincy makes a lot of sense for people from the southern suburbs. It's the obvious place to have a convenient parking lot right off the highway, along the direct path from these towns to the stadium. So it won't waste people's time driving out of the way, and it keeps traffic off neighborhood streets.
Milton
That's the park and ride on Granite Ave in Milton right off the 93 ramp which sound like a perfect place for this shuttle to me.
Am I illiterate or are they
Am I illiterate or are they not proposing a shuttle pick up from Forest Hills? Seems like a clear and obvious low hanging fruit - "we encourage people to take the T and will come pick them up at the nearest T station to do so"
They are looking at three options for subway shuttles
Forest Hills, Green Street and Jackson Square. As mentioned in the story, Forest Hills would be good because the route between it and the stadium is mostly Morton Street and then Circuit Drive in the park, so little possible impact on residents. The cons: It's a bit farther away than Green - especially for fans coming from the north, who might not want to sit on the train for three extra stops.
Green is a lot closer to the stadium (like a half mile), but Glen Road has houses on it - but parking on just one side.
They ruled out Stony Brook because the route between there and the stadium would involve mostly residential roads with parking on both sides, so more chances for congestion.
The Walk from Forest Hills Station is a 1.5 miles
So the expectation is that those hearty European style fans will not mind a 3 mile round trip walk, is pretty far fetched. The 16 Bus does not come very often on the weekends, and much of the walk is uphill, which makes it difficult for those using wheelchairs or other ambulatory devices.
The neighborhood that was plagued with WRDC parking on the streets until several years ago, the city finally made the neighborhood into Resident Only Parking, at least most of it. (Some court employees still park on the back side of Morton Street behind the Arborway, but are occasionally getting tickets now. I am sure that neighbors will have a hard time parking in this neighborhood if fans decide to "take the ticket." since it probably is close to the same they will be paying for off site parking.
I wanna see the Stadium shine, BPS games there are fun to watch, went to a football game a couple weeks ago. But a professional soccer team, charging admission for games and forcing parking and traffic into chaos is not a good plan.
The walk
I doubt many people will walk from Forest Hills when Green is just a half mile from the stadium - the issue is more where to have shuttle buses for people who don't feel like marching from the subway.
You know, maybe do something about this?
Apparently weekend Commuter Rail ridership is up 50% over pre-pandemic levels. Imagine if the T got their head out of the sand and, I don't know, ran the Commuter Rail more than every two hours?
Hourly service on the Providence, Franklin and Needham lines could stop at Forest Hills and provide a shuttle from there to the field (it's only a bit more than a mile to walk it). Perhaps some sort of "ride free with your soccer ticket" although the $10 weekend pass is a good deal. Plenty of parking on weekends out in the 'burbs.
There's no need for hourly
There's no need for hourly service just because of these soccer games. Fans arrive in maybe a 60-90 minute window. Just have 2 or 3 trains timed to stop at Forest Hills centered around 30 minutes before game time, and the reverse after the game.
Frequent service for everyone, not just soccer fans, would be a great thing. But the T's current operating model makes it a financial impossibility. Throw the smelly diesel engines and huge yet cramped double-decker coaches in the trash, and run single-car EMUs every 15 minutes.
TBH the two-hour schedule is
TBH the two-hour schedule is probably one of the major factors as to why they're actually able to run a reliable network. Anything requiring close coordination and specific timing is far beyond the abilities of the MBTA.
Uhhh, sure
This statement is only slightly undermined by the fact that they run hourly service all day on weekdays on every line now.
And lines with full double track like the Providence Line could run much more frequently.
parking
There's plenty of bike lanes on Circuit Drive for parking.
One of the improvements being
One of the improvements being considered for Franklin Park is to shut down Circuit Drive. I hope they do it. Having a road through a park is the dumbest thing ever.
Do it like BC football
BC runs shuttle buses from all over. They also have "no parking during the game" signs for miles around the stadium. It seems to work for them.
That's my thought
Alumni Stadium holds a lot more, and I hate to mention that the team should be happy if they draw 10,000 a game, or a quarter of what BC draws. With multiple close Orange Line stations- though a beefed up schedule for the 16 between Andrew would put the Red Line into play- parking shouldn't be too bad of an issue.
That said, I don't live by the park.
Shhhhhhhhhh!
Don't you lugs see this is just a scam to get these suckers to pay for the White Stadium renovations? Quincy got a mere million for their stadium from a pro lacrosse team who soon moved on, plus another million from a generous local resident, but the place looks amazing, with an electronic scoreboard and upgraded seats and amenities. The White Stadium plan is on another level. Just make sure that the lease is not assignable.