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BRA approves non-luxury apartments next to train station in Hyde Park
By adamg on Thu, 09/18/2014 - 9:52pm
The BRA today approved a proposed 27-unit apartment building on what is now an unused piece of industrial land next to the Fairmount commuter-rail station.
The Southwest Boston Community Development Corp., which covers Hyde Park, and the Codman Square Neighborhood Development Corp. which has considerable experience building affordable housing, are partnering on the $7-million Residences at Fairmount Station, which will feature 24 "affordable" apartments and three market-rate units.
The development would be one of the first along the newly revamped Fairmount Line. State officials have said the $200 million cost of upgrading the line could pay off in revitalization of the areas around its stations.
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Comments
Very glad to see this...
...any naysayers left?
Nay....
I mean yes, there are some people who have some legit and not so legit concerns about this project. Construction start: 2018? so expect more battles...
it's a start...
Same
It must be the same architect who has been designing all the boxy, cookie cutter condos in South Boston.
how it really goes down
architect: can't we do something nice this time? I was thinking stone panels…
developer: no - all vinyl.
architect: ugh… alright - how about using some premium colors…
developer: I want it weird green and baby-poop brown
architect: are you sure? the neighborhood might not like that…
developer: you want to get paid? because this is how you don't get paid..
Hahaha that's a near perfect shorthand
of what Jim Kunstler describes.
Here he is at TED and Boston City Hall gets "honorable mention".
http://youtu.be/Q1ZeXnmDZMQ
It is some funny stuff.
More Kunstler
Talking about Boston on his podcast, ignore the brat who's interviewing and can't seem to talk about anything but NYC.
http://kunstlercast.com/shows/kunstlercast_87_boston.html
Actually it goes more like this...
Developer: I'm going to build something really nice, everyone will love what I have built, architect, go design this for me!
Architect: Sure thing!...(some time later) Hey Mr. Developer, here is what I have designed, it has good massing, interesting lines, and nice finishes.
Developer:Wow! That looks amazing, I really like it. Let's see hoe much this will cost. I'm sure it will be withing my financing range. Mr. GC, could you put a price to this for me?
General Contractor: I'd love to!. It looks like a great project, and I would love to build it for you...(some time later)... Hey Mr. Developer, here is the price to build your project. I hope this works with your budget and we can start building this!.
Developer WTF!?!?! This is outrageous, and way over my budget. Where did you come up with these numbers?
General Contractor I'm sorry to hear that Mr. Developer, here are our subcontractor quotes showing our competitive pricing and how we came up with the price for your project.
Developer This is terrible, what options are there for value engineering on this project?
And so begins the VE process, the project becomes another boring box and everyone lives disgruntled-ly ever after.
The End
Union labor = no competitive
Union labor = no competitive pricing. But guess what? You aren't building a building of significant size in the city if you don't have them on board because of politics. When the economy cratered construction costs for large projects never went down because of that monopoly.
And then ...
You have even more people who can't afford to live there. Which is probably okay with you, because working people have no right to have a comfortable life, amirite?
In my (limited) experience,
In my (limited) experience, this is precisely how it goes down.
Can anyone say, succinctly, how construction has gotten so expensive? All I hear about is how wages (particularly for people in things like the construction industry) are stagnant or falling in real terms. China's economy (and demand for raw materials) has been cooling for years, and it seemed that no one was building anything (outside of a couple of markets) in the US until about a year or two ago. What is driving the expense?
A (small) case on point. I have been looking into converting my oil-burning boiler to gas for a bit. I already have gas in my house, and in fact, I use it to cook, dry and heat hot water. I have been told that very nice gas boilers go for $2500-$3500.
Every price that I get to do the conversion is between $10,000-$12,000 (not including oil tank removal). How is that possible? We are talking about 7 feet of gas pipe (the line runs right past the boiler) and maybe 10 feet of ducting for make-up air which is nothing but some prefab sheet metal and a "fan-in-a-can". It is less than a full day's work and the materials (other than the boiler) can't cost more than $500-1000 (being conservative). When I ask the contractors that question, the answer is "that's just what it costs".
When you get a quote have
When you get a quote have them break everything down that way you can see how they came up with their total. I work in construction and while I wouldn't have the first clue as to how to do what you are looking for them to do. I do know that they should break down their estimate. Any good contractor will include a small amount for contingency because there's almost always an unhappy surprise somewhere along the way. Also materials can be surprisingly expensive.
Jeeze, I just had a furnace swap out in my building.
It was forced hot air, gas. If a contractor hoses you like that it means they don't like you, for whatever reason.
I don't want to use Adam's site to plug contractors but look up Affordable Air in Revere, Scott. Tell him I sent you.
sounds like a developer
who has never built anything with state money...
You forgot the part where
You forgot the part where Developer doesn't pay, lawsuit ensues, architectural firm forced to let employees go as a result of years delays in payment from Developer.
Really, really
goes down like this:
Developer: I want to build another luxury condo complex that looks like 4 Home Depots stacked on top of one another.
Architect: OK, I'll take the blueprints from the last 12 developments I designed in Southie and change the name on it and submit it to the BRA for approval.
Developer: Good! Nice way to save money.
Someday
My 2 year old son will ask me why they built such ugly buildings, though to be fair they built similarly ugly buildings when I was 2 years old.
Or not. City Hall Plaza won awards, while the World Trade Center in New York was panned. Over time, their respective positions changed (from a pre-2001 point of view.) Taste is a fickle thing. My gut, though, is that the new buildings south of Forest Hills will be akin to the Ridgecrest Village apartment buildings in West Roxbury when they are that old.
Learning From Las Vegas
..is a useful reference. Robert Venturi wrote it and it was a big influence for the post moderns.
He broke everything down into a decorated box or a duck. City hall is a duck. An outlandish design that is deliberately imposing and monumental.
It's Boston doing a Le Corbusier wanna be stunt because he knocked em dead with his smaller building, the Carpenter Center, at Harvard.
Venturi shilled for Decorated Boxes and a bunch of these went up in the 80s. With Gehry, we're back to ducks.
Blah...
Blah...
Can we get a better palate of materials already? This looks like the Harvest building on Washington St in JP, or any of a dozen other recent builds. I have a feeling this mixed material veneer thing is going to weather poorly over time. Why must they always use that split pea green?
On The Cheap
One thing to note about the current vogue in those mid-sized apartment buildings - and present in most recently constructed - is it's all about facades. Under the surface those things are still just wood framed with a small amount of support structure in concrete. This leads to almost no noise reduction between units, less fire-proofing, and less durability. There should be a law that all new buildings are full of re-bar and concrete. Properly mixed and poured concrete will last virtually forever in comparison. If you don't like the look of raw concrete [and I happen to like it myself] you can surface it with whatever you want. But then at least you have a decent core to the building.
A good builder
...will pack insulation or some sound damping materiel between adjoining unit walls.
The design is probably some LEED approved thing, which is laudable. The odd thing to me is how the word 'luxury' is just slapped on so many things like it is a sales pitch.
When I think of luxury, I think of the New Balance CEO's home in Newton and not some apartment complex in Assembly Square or an old industrial lot in Watertown.
It is funny how this 'non luxury design is very similar to 'luxury' dumps. The difference is probably in the trim out... stupid granite countertops and stainless steel appliances, maybe a better grade of wall to wall carpet or hardwood floor.
In a way it's all just another real estate hustle and another example of why it is such a sleazy profession.
Sweet
More low income housing, while middle class folks get screwed as usual.
Sweet, somebody else kneejerking reflexively
Three of the "affordable" units will, indeed, be subsidized for "very low income" residents, as required by the BRA. The rest, however, will, at best, only be $100 to $150 below market rates - and that thanks to grants that will help pay construction costs, not due to Section 8 or some other program. This is very much a project aimed at the middle class.
Very interesting
Families of three making under 66k a year - would you please enlighten us as to who those families are? It's a well-known fact that it would be next to impossible to survive on that salary for a family of two adults, let alone family of three. Other than the rare cases of a spouse losing his/her job after the child is born, who in the world would have a child in Boston with that sort of income unless they were planning to milk the system right from the start? And, more importantly, why are we paying for the poor to have as many kids as they want while telling lower middle class folks to STFU and move when they can't afford to have a kid here?
I do
I work with a married couple who probably make 30 grand each, so add a kid and there's 3. And I do gov'ment work. Here's another: how about a daycare worker and someone who cleans buildings, plus a kid? Or do you think that the city doesn't need daycare workers and people who clean buildings?
Or course, how about someone who makes $60 grand a year with a stay at home spouse with twins? That's 4 people.
The deeper question is- what do you have against people who make less than $33,000 a year,? You know, the lower middle class. In my version of Boston, we have all sorts of economic classes, but if you just want the rich, move to San Francisco!
Where Do You Get Your "Facts" From
Your married couple making $30k each and have a child will not be allowed to live in this building. The maximum income a family of 3 is allowed is $50,820. Your person $60000 with a stay at home spouse and twins will also not be allowed to live in this building. The maximum income a family of 4 is allowed is $56460.
There is no legitimate reason why people on welfare be required to work like everyone else. In most families both spouses have to work.
The fact is there is not enough safe decent reasonably priced housing in Boston. Boston does not have Boston is rapidly becoming a city of the very rich and very poor, middle class people can not afford housing in Boston.
And yes there is value to day care workers and people who clean buildings but its not a good idea to have them all living together. Studies show that when there a high concentration of poverty there is a high concentration of crime.
This proposed building is excluding the middle class. Not only is this proposed income segregated housing not fair to the middle class it is not good for the poor to be forced to live where there is a high concentration of poverty.
Not only does a high concentration of poverty bring with it a high concentration of crime, children of the poor need role models which they will not get is a low income housing project i.e. income segregated housing.
The Boston public elementary school in Hyde Park got the lowest of ratings, only one other elementary school in Boston (one in Dorchester) and 4 other elementary schools in the entire state got as low a rating. Who has an explanation for this.
Part of this is due to the Mayor and his administration making Hyde Park the dumping ground for all that is undesirable, while other areas in the city become nicer. One can only guess that the city is placing lower quality teachers in Hyde Park and welcoming and encouraging uneducated people to live in Hyde Park.
A low income housing project will by definition attract uneducated persons. When parents are uneducated they impart the this on their children, thus low performing children who do not consider studying and getting good grades important. The children need to live where there are role models who will encourage them to study and get good grades.
All you anons may look the same to me
But I don't know if you are the working class hating person from before.
Adam noted the $66,000 number from his report of the earlier meeting (see above.) You might want to read it, or talk to Southwest Boston CDC. There will be "low income" units in the development, as there will be market rate units. I don't know what the issue is between "low income" and the bulk of the units, but then again I'm not griping about this.
Once again, what is wrong with a couple whose aggregate income is $66,000 who have a child being able to live in Hyde Park? Are we to expect that daycare workers, supermarket workers, restaurant employees, and all sorts of less than well paid employees are not to live in the city? Are stay-at-home moms really that horrible, even it they are dealing with young children that might have special needs.
Also, you do realize that there are more schools in Hyde Park than the Grew? For example, the Roosevelt. Their MCAS scores aren't too bad. This brings another point. Are you worried that these units might be used by immigrants who want better for their children, and thus want their children to be well educated?
I like Hyde Park. It's a great place. I just don't understand people who dislike people who make less money than they do.
Okay, here's more math
$66,000 a year, divided by 52 weeks ($1269.23,) then divided 40 hours comes out to $31.73. Let's evenly divide that- $15.865. Drop the half cent, and that is $0.86 more than what progressives want the minimum wage to be, or $7.86 above what the minimum wage is now, and $4.86 more than what minimum wage will be in 2017.
So, we have a couple, one of which works at Home Depot and the other works at Boloco. Both are theoretically good employers, but they still make less than $15 an hour. Both work 40 hour weeks, which is a sign of a good work ethic. They also have a child. Daycare issues? Okay, the father gets a job that makes $25 a hour, or $52,000 a year. I don't know how he did it, but he lucked out. His wife, meanwhile, only works evenings cleaning offices, working 25 hours a week at $9.00 a hour. This means that she makes $11,700 a year, for a household total of $63,700. Still under what SWBCDC says they wage limit is.
Question- why shouldn't there be housing for these people?
This is one of the most foolish, snobby comments I've ever seen
So ignorant and full of fallacies that I find it hard to believe that the author has a real-world job at all, let alone one putting them in their own "middle class" of $50k +. This is the type of bs you get when you allow anons to run amuck.
Not to beat a dead horse with this
According to the Census Bureau, the median household income in Hyde Park is $57,080. True, for families the median is $74,734, but even that is roughly 10% more than what SWBCDC is capping income at, which is not too bad since we are looking at the mid-point.
I swear, I will not bring out median incomes for professions, unless you want to keep on about how families making about $66,000 a year should not be allowed to live in Hyde Park.
Won't someone think of the middle class white guys?
Those poor, benighted souls. If they didn't have anon speaking up for them, they'd have no voice at all.
Nice racism assuming anyone
Nice racism assuming anyone not middle class is a poor minority.
ignorant comment, erik g
Get out much? Plenty of non-whites are middle class. Wake up to 2014 please.
Why, yes
All those pesky middle class (on paper) white (and not) guys (and gals) like teachers and social workers making around $50k - too rich to qualify for affordable housing since they're over 80% AMI, yet too poor to actually be able to rent or buy anything better than a roach-infested basement studio. Same for a two earner households making ~$90k - filthy rich by BRA standards, yet in the real world the best they can ever hope for is a floor in a run-down triple decker in less savory parts of Dot or Roxbury once you factor in student loans and living expenses.
Remember when...
Boston built some the US' best vernacular architecture. Not saying this building needs to be a masterpiece, but it's just another in a long-trend of uninspired, listless buildings. And no, slapping some brink panelling somewhere on the facade doesn't suddenly endow with Boston-ness.
But hey, affordable housing, that's more important and I can't complain about that. Good on them.
Adam, do you know if any of
Adam, do you know if any of the elected officials there spoke Yay or Nay to the BRA board on this?
Unfortunately, I don't
I had a choice: Watch the BRA meeting or go to kidlet's school open house. Guess which one I chose? So the post is based entirely on a single BRA tweet announcing the approval of the project.
You did the right thing.
That is all.
City Councillor
From this article:
http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2014/06/27/will-walsh-boot-chance-boo...
"Timothy McCarthy, the district councilor from Hyde Park, is cool to the idea, at best. "
But City Councilor McCarthy, who enjoys a close relationship with Mayor Walsh, didn’t share that view [potential to spur improvements to the nearby business districts in Logan and Cleary squares.].
“I think Hyde Park is pretty solid right now,” he said.
Elected Offcials Spoke Up
Walsh (on his way to Ireland) through aide: Aye!
Pressley: Aye!
Tim "HP is solid" McCarthy: Nay! because of lack of sidewalks...
Angelo Scaccia: Nay! because of kids playing in the train tracks...and it's not an ideal site...[welcome to Hyde Park, Angelo]
Vote: 3-2 in favor.
Mayor Walsh issued a crucial statement in favor
Which, I'm told, was read to the Board by aide David McNulty. City Councilor Ayanna Pressley also spoke in support of the project. Angelo Scaccia spoke at length against it. The vote was 4-1 in favor, with new board member Ted Landsmark being the lone nay vote.
Like Adam I missed the meeting- I had a choice between going to the meeting and going to work, and since my "earned time" is approaching a critically low level I had to choose work. But my info is from a reliable source. So thank you, Mayor Walsh and Councillor Pressley!
The architect voted against it?
Of course he did!
Should be a great asset, snarkiness about the exterior notwithstanding. I guess the next stop in transit oriented development in the area will be at Cummins Highway where Cote Ford was, though it would be nice if they started on the station soon.
was there...
and I believe his concern was that the site was unattractive and not great for families, asking, "isn't there another piece of property in HP that is better than this?" Some folks have voiced this same thing but some of this is NIMBYism. According to the non-profit Southwest Boston CDC, all other site options are too expensive, which is probably not that surprising, even in "solid" HP.
This project could be the start if Logan's Square Renaissance , ya never know.
vote
The vote was 3-2. Basically McNulty and Campbel lied when they said the neighborhood was 50/50 for and against. This neighborhood is almost 100% against.
Nonsense.
Maybe upper Fairmount is predominantly opposed. Have you talked to anybody in Cleary Square, or Logan for that matter? Take a survey in Shaws parking lot on a Saturday, see what people say. Probably closer to 90% in favor.
I talked to about 200 people,
I talked to about 200 people, going door to door on Davison and Pierce Streets and found exactly four people in the neighborhood that had even heard about this project and exactly three people who were for building it. One of those people has since moved away. This neighborhood is solidly against building this pos. We are the people that are going to be directly affected by this. Over 200 people have now signed the petition against. Nice try Dan.
75% support
According to your survey.
Now, did you do an objective presentation of the facts, or did you try to convince the neighbors that bringing new housing to the area would lead to the destruction of the very fabric of the area as we know it? If you went for the latter, those other 196 people might have been being polite with you.
"would lead to the
"would lead to the destruction of the very fabric of the area as we know it?"
Get a clue Mr "I live in Roslindale". You don't even know what the "fabric" of this neighborhood is.
BRA approves TOD at Fairmount Station
Nimby is common symptom of any proposal that favors mixed or work-force or affordable housing. But finally, with some reason, education and consideration for the positive growth, that TOD brings to an area, we moved from square one on this revitalization project.
No realtor will dispute that Transit Oriented Development benefits any area between the commercial area and the means for transportation. Prop values trend up. Retail sees growth (and with 20+% vacancy in Hyde Park its desperate). A specific outcome of this project will be a cleaner area - monies will be leveraged for remediation of the area. The opposition to this project and others like it have come of the gate with a "sky-is-falling" worst kind of ignorance; unchecked claims; and mean-spirited prejudices. Its not uncommon a symptom to hear this talk from parties that would be happy for no-change, no growth, keep the status quo appearance & value.