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JP group may or may not rewrite proposal that Whole Foods may or may not sign

The Jamaica Plain Gazette keeps us up to date on the JP Neighborhood Council, which is now busy "redesigning" the agreement it may or may not want Whole Foods to sign and which it may or may not have discussed with the company at a meeting that may or may not have left the door open to further negotiations earlier this month.

[T]he JPNC did not directly ask Whole Foods to sign anything, and Whole Foods did not directly say no, Howley told the Gazette. She said that certain requests "made it unsignable" because they addressed practices that Whole Foods never does as a company. She declined to specify those requests on the record.

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Comments

It really is time to drop this whole issue. I wish this same group would fight Wal*Mart trying to open up in Dudley Square. This is where a good, militant group like this would be good. Not fighting Whole Foods.

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I agree that the fight against a JP Whole Foods has been just about as wrongheaded as a campaign can get.

HOWEVER, addressing the issues behind it (affordable housing, gentrification) and the swift organization of neighborhood groups to either question or oppose it say great things about JP.

People question why there wasn't this kind of effort to save the Aggasiz school, but anyone in the surrounding neighborhood who sent kids to that school can tell you there was no lack of effort made to stop its closure. The new low-income housing near Hyde Square, the community center coming to Jackson and the overpass proposal that routinely includes affordable housing are all testaments to how much the neighborhood cares about the big stuff.

It's just a shame that the things it champions are such minor details. So you blocked a Domino's and a Starbucks while countless other pizza places opened up and cafes closed. What do you want, a cookie? When "we have no chains" becomes the focal point of your activism, it not only looks trite, but it looks awfully contradictory when people point out the 7-11, Dunkin Donuts, Rent-a-Center, Payless, Bank of America, Citizens Bank and Stop & Shop.

The folks questioning Whole Foods may be fighting the wrong fight for the right reasons, but they're a whole lot better that the more extreme end of the pro-Whole Foods contingent: The ones who feel that the JP they want to gut houses and flip properties in at a profit is great and all, but would be so much better if it weren't so funky and didn't have so many of the poors around. You know, the ones who believe that malls and cookie-cutter buildings are somehow crime deterrents and that the things that attract people to JP in the first place are just untidy elements that need sprucing up.

Yes, the bike zealots can get annoying when I'm riding in a path at a pace somewhat south of breakneck or waiting in line to buy a set of new tires behind a guy who's giving the counter worker the unabridged version of his recent LeMond rebuild. Yes, the beardos can be a bit much when they monopolize my bartender's time by trying to make it clear to the whole bar that he's a good, personal friend even though he's trying his best to ignore it. Yes, I'd like to walk in front of JP Licks just once without some clipboard cradler from The Firm asking me for credit card information.

But I love the music that comes from the windows and cars. I love the bodega around the corner in one direction and the co-op around the corner in the other. I love that there is always a cause being addressed and volunteers being sought. I love that you can just tune all that out, sit on the porch and watch the neighborhood go by. I love Wake Up The Earth, The Lantern Festival, the music festival, open studios, First Thursday, the Scottish fire festivals outside the Haven and the piragua guy outside Stop & Shop.

What I love most is that there are longtimers and newcomers alike who love this place so much that they're willing to throw a community's worth of effort behind the wrong cause for all the right reasons. There was no way the groups were going to stop Whole Foods or get it to agree to a lengthy list of demands. Even if they get something beyond the basic CBA, however, they'll have scored points for the community that would have been left on the table if they just chose to sit on their hands.

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BigSwinginMick-this is one of the more thoughtful pieces I've read on this issue. You captured the two extremes-Whose Foods activists/down w/ (some) chains and the Whole Foods lovin'/post on Patch all-day long/I love JP as long as people who look like me continue to move in and open businesses crowd. Nicely done

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where's that damned 'like' button?

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You state that 'The folks questioning Whole Foods may be fighting the wrong fight for the right reasons, but they're a whole lot better that the more extreme end of the pro-Whole Foods contingent: The ones who feel that the JP they want to gut houses and flip properties in at a profit is great and all, but would be so much better if it weren't so funky and didn't have so many of the poors around. You know, the ones who believe that malls and cookie-cutter buildings are somehow crime deterrents and that the things that attract people to JP in the first place are just untidy elements that need sprucing up.'

I haven't read a single pro-Whole Foods poster or person interviewed who complained about the poor people in JP and that JP needs more malls. Not one. I would love to see an actual quote or reference to support your strawman argument.

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but I also don't know a single person in my Hyde Square neighborhood who supports the JP WHole Foods -- and there are a lot! -- that fits this description. Most of us are relieved that an anchor store is coming to Hyde Square that will help our small business owner friends (Hispanic and non) survive this economic downturn.

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"small business owner friends (Hispanic and non) survive this economic downturn."
Yeah, I don't see all those WF shoppers walking down Centre St. and getting tattoos at Fat Ram's or buying music @ Franklin CDs. Not when the "anchor" store caters to a very specific group of residents.

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of Fat Ram's completely supports the JP Whole Foods. As does the owner of El Oriental de Cuba. And the Executive Director of the Hyde Square Task Force. And the Hispanic Business Association of Hyde Square. Seems to me that the "very specific group of residents" Whole Foods caters to is people who eat. There are plenty of such people in JP and neighboring communities who have never ventured into Hyde Square and now they will and that's a god thing.

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Do you really believe that there are no tattooed folks who might also enjoy shopping at Whole Foods? Or any Whole Foods denizens who also er...buy CDs? Even if your premise were true, it seems a strange standard to aim for--if I patronize Alex's Chimis but not Fat Ram's, or I'm a regular at City Feed but not Bon Savor, am I a bad citizen or not in favor of a "diverse JP?"

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..I don't know Sally....do you ride a fixie?

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No--a single speed but not a fixie.I love coasting.

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Well, 'Gal, even tho you don't know me, I live in "your" Hyde Square neighborhood and I am 1000 percent PRO Whole Foods coming in and cleaning up that dilapidated rat-trap (former Hi-Lo) and improving the neighborhood that I have lived in, shopped in, and supported for more than 20 years. It sure beats any of the alternatives that the anti-WF nut-jobs have suggested. And I bet WF won't plow all of the parking lot snow onto the sidewalks like those inconsiderate bastards at Hi-Lo did.

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Any comments field from about, oh, February on will do. I'll even do this with one hand tied behind my back and disavow any references to "thugs," "hooligans" and "welfare moms" or open calls for a Wal-Mart or Target within neighborhood limits (still amazing, considering there's no vacant space with a footprint that big).

Anon, I'd recommend following this story a bit more closely and tuning in when it starts to impact decisions like the licensing of check-cashing stores, the merits of a free market and the use of terms like "illegals."

Meanwhile, I'd like to see any evidence that you're not the guy on Robinwood Street who posted a gutting video here a few months back.

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So you can't ACTUALLY cite any quotes, just your recollections of what people said 7 months ago? Perfect. I have followed the story and do recall Whose Fooders making implied threats and disrupting public forums, but I don't remember pro Whole Foods people trying shout down any debate. Again, please educate me on what I missed, you know using facts.

Whole Foods proponents generally aren't cheering for gentrification or displacement, but rather recognize that arbitrarily asking certain businesses to go to extraordinary measures to underwrite local non-profits.

Where were these people when the Stop & Shop, Walgreens and Harvard Vanguard building was built in Brigham Circle? If you want to talk neighborhood impact, the revitalization of Brigham Circle was far more extreme and total than a closed grocery store being replaced with a different grocery store.

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but didn't end up happening because of neighborhood opposition. I think it was even a nonprofit CDC, Urban Edge, who wanted to build it there.

But if a big-box store is wanted, why not build it on the Roxbury Community College parking lots? The college is on the Orange Line, so these lots are a total waste of prime urban space.

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Ron, Urban Edge did not propose a KMart for Jackson Square. There had been conversation among various nonprofits about what kinds of things could be done to reduce crime and revitalize that part of JP, and a big box store like KMart was one of the ideas that was proposed. After that idea was suggested, Mossik Hacobian, the director of Urban Edge, said maybe it would be worth discussing the pros and cons of a store like KMart. He was excoriated for that remark, even though he was just suggesting a conversation.

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From Patch:

Pat Roberts
8:36am on Thursday, September 8, 2011
Sumner Hiller: The first problem with the neighborhood council request is that it's extortion. It shouldn't be necessary to pay off someone in order to open a business here. I gather that's the way business is done in third world countries, but it's sickening to see it tried in JP. Second, the organizations that would be the recipients of the payoff (the JP NDC, Hyde Square Task Force, etc.) are the ones who want Hyde Square to stay as poor and unsafe as possible, so they can continue to do business here, "helping the poor". There's nothing impartial or even community-improving about the neighborhood council request. They are just trying to get more money for their friends. Totally gross.

MarkBoston
12:56pm on Saturday, March 5, 2011
how about the Latino home owners who live near by ? If and I say 'if" .. the magic powers of having Whole Foods opening in the area raises home values .. I would think it's insulting to suggest that the Latin community should not want what the rest of of Anglo home owners want ... The value of our property to improve .. even in today's horrible downturn we all pray that we dont get to having upside down mortgages where we loose value ...
They need to build the equity in their homes just as everyone else does.. For most , it's our money to retire on. Whole Foods could be a great jump start of new investments in the area ( I live 2 blocks from the new site as well ) . EVERYONE in every community wants to have a chance to have better & more secure lives. More investments in the area brings new jobs.. WHY do people believe that keeping a neighborhood stagnant and poor , a good thing ??

JP
9:48pm on Saturday, March 5, 2011
Last time I checked, despite the fact that we are in Massachusetts, we still live in the USA, where capitalism is the predominant economic system. No one put a gun to the Knapp's heads and forced them to lease the building to Whole Foods. It's called FREE MARKET CAPITALISM and it's what built this country. Let it work in JP.

Aside from the clear communist/socialist leanings of this activism, the hypocrisy inherent in the anti-WF "movement" is best reflected in the comments made by one of its leaders at a recent meeting.

" Jamaica Plain is for us, not for the rich people." - Betsaida Gutiérrez

Not only do these people want to dictate which businesses can operate in JP, they now want to dictate WHO CAN LIVE HERE!

White "Yuppies" and others making more than 80% of median AGI are not welcome in JP apparently - but they are welcome to continue paying the taxes that FUND the JPNDC, food stamp programs and other forms of social aid that poorer JP residents gladly receive.

Back to reality people. Snap out of your fantasy world.

Didn't see anything about malls, but if you lift that moratorium on Target and Wal-Mart welcome-wagon references, I think you'll make your point.

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I'm sure there was a lot more of this in previous posts, too, though some people aren't satisfied until there are annotated footnotes explaining each perceived slight.

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...It's the bloody rent-to-own chains that are the real cause of gentrification and poverty! Don't even get me started on their so-called "affordable rates". People are paying $40 PER WEEK for three years for a $600 TV set because they can't save money or get credit... those crooks should be ashamed.

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whole foods come to Dorchester. We would love to have you here.
instead of having to drive to dedham for organic food.

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The JPNC has no authority to be "negotiating" with anyone. This is a grocery store replacing a grocery store. There are no zoning or permitting issues before the JPNC that would arguably give the Council some basis for making demands. The overwhelming majority of people of all races and classes in Hyde Square and JP support the JP Whole Foods and simply want the company to do business here as it always has and does elsewhere. We definitely do NOT support a lame-duck JPNC trying to eke out some kind of benefits package in the final weeks before the 9/24 elections.

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Finally....Some sanity comes to the argument

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The neighborhood council asserts it represents us JP residents. Why won't it tell us JP residents what it is asking Whole Foods for? They are certainly not authorized by anyone to conduct secret negotiations. Mayor Menino, can't you get rid of this ridiculous organization?

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@Pat-perhaps you'd be in the loop if you didn't talk so negatively about the JPNC, low-income people, and pretty much anyone who you don't agree with (mainly those who are working in the community).

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If you don't agree with the JPNC you should be out of the loop? I thought they were there to represent the community of which Pat is a member. Regardless of your thoughts about Pat or her opinions, she has a right to know what the JPNC is doing as much as you or any of their constituents. Maybe you should buck up little camper and get a grip on your hurt fee-fees.

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the JPNC "good neighbor agreement" has been kept a secret from everyone, not just long-time JP residents who disagree with the Council. The criticism the JPNC has received for secretly negotiating with Whole Foods has prompted it to chaneg course and promise that the document will be made public:

http://jamaicaplaingazette.com/2011/09/12/jpnc-cha...

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anon: I know, I know--if I only had correct thought, and correct speech, then I would have friends in the PC community. But so far, I've been able to handle that rejection.

By the way, my neighbors and I have all been "working in the community) for many years to make this a better place. Maybe for you, it doesn't count to improve this community unless you get paid to do it. We do it because we need to.

And wouldn't you be more comfortable if you put your name on your posts, instead of hiding behind the "anon" label? You could show your friends what you're contributing to the conversation!

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“The door’s definitely open now.”

Haha, oh, WOW. Way to make it sound like the door was "closed" at some point.

The door was always open. It just wasn't big enough to drive your 18 wheeler of blackmail through.

Also: when will JPNC figure out that they only speak for a bunch of over-concerned, over-educated, white carpetbagging grad students...not actual JP residents?

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Wants 1% of store's annual revenue:

We demand this 1% for the funding of local anti-displacement organizing, especially in Hyde Square, and the creation and/or preservation of local affordable housing, annually for the duration of the store’s 20-year lease. We demand a small slice of the pie that our neighborhood makes possible. Being a good neighbor means mutuality.

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"The IKEA in Somerville..."

There's an IKEA in Somerville? Where?

Also, I would wager fake / joke names are on that petition within an hour.

Signed,

Ivanna Tinkle

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Zsablomi is also a strong supporter.

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The IKEA is going in by the Assembly Square Mall. They did a land swap with the State for Mystic River front property to be used as parkland. Not sure what else the corporation is on the hook for in regards to the community agreement.

Signed,
Amanda Hugnkiss

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You mean this:

http://www.wickedlocal.com/somerville/news/busines...

?

I thought we were talking about how Somerville effectively chased off Ikea in 1999-2000. I suppose if 12-13 year delay can be accepted, the Green line extension will begin transporting the freshest batch of gentrification machines around 2026.

Enjoy!

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uhm....yes.

?

Not sure what the question is or what the "enjoy" statement is about. Things take a long time to get built around here. From the link you provided seems like IKEA put up jobs training money. They switched from their originally desired location to another one with help by the State, that wanted the waterfront access to connect various bike paths and greenspaces. The city also got a new Orange line stop out of it which, as the IKEA, is taking forever to get built. But if you drive around that area you can see the change from its Good Time days.

So, yeah, eventually it will be "enjoyed." But I'll probably have more gray hair by then.

But gentrification does take time. Just ask Davis Square.

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Their critics asked for real names -- like in the JPForAll petition -- and the Whose Fooders have finally signed.

They'll never get 1%, but they're right: A CBA really isn't such an alien concept to anyone who's dealt with urban commercial real estate before.

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CBA's are usually with a)big-box stores b)coming into new locations, often with c)zoning changes and d)government support (namely, roadworks/water/sewer).

WF is not a "big box" store, it's not a new location, there's no zoning change, and there haven't been any public infrastructure improvements.

Furthermore, they're still basing their demands off a couple of idiotic ideas...namely that JP isn't largely gentrified already, or that Whole Foods isn't affordable (that last one has been repeatedly disproved - their commodity goods are about the same price as every other market.)

All the drama around the blowback from area bodega owners after the city's arm was twisted by the "community organizers" into looking into opening an ethnic market, not to mention how pretty much nobody liked the HiLo that supposedly was a vital asset, shows how pretty out-of-touch Whose Foods and the other "community organizers" are with the community they're failing to speak for.

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Brett-your comment "not to mention how pretty much nobody liked the HiLo that supposedly was a vital asset" shows just how out of touch you and so many other WF supporters are. To not recognize that people mourned the loss of HiLo and many continue to (including former hilo workers who are now working at WF) shows that you are completely void of any compassion.

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It was a grocery store. One that was closed by it's owners, not WF. If you are "mourning" the closing of a grocery store, maybe you need to get some therapy. Seriously.

Most people will lose a job they like at some point. That's called life. However according to people like you, I should wear a black arm-band and expect other people to suspend commerce if I was bummed about being laid off.

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Yep, I'm sure they don't consider you a bitter old crank or aloof prick at all.

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You're funny. I'm not old and my neighbors like me just fine. I don't hang out with little cry babies that try to tell others what to do with their property, so maybe that's why you and I don't run in the same circles. I hope you and Whose Food enjoy your irrelevance.

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And I'm no Whose Foods supporter. I just don't hang out with little crybabies who wail whenever they don't get what they want exactly when they want it. "Waaaah, I want a Whole Foods." "Waaah, I want a more modern apartment." "Waaah, I want them to start on those sequels to the 'Atlas Shrugged' movie."

There are many reasons you and I don't run in the same circles, but I'm guessing my circles were drawn long before you got here and will be around long after you pack up and hit the 'burbs.

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They say with age comes wisdom, but I guess that doesn't seem to be the case here. Nice projection though about apartments and bad movies. It's like you're arguing with the guy in your head instead of the words on the screen. Looks like I've got you good and wound up now, so watch your blood pressure, I don't want you stroking out on me.

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You've got the "arguing with the guy in your head" argument across. Move it along.

Because the guy you're arguing with is just another anon, I can't tell who he is or what his motives are. But if he's actually one of the guys who hangs out on the porch at the old electric repair dispatch at Custer and South -- which I doubt, because I don't see the fellas pecking at laptops up there -- he's got a lot more insight into this neighborhood than most of us. Oh, and you're barking at a 90-year-old man who'll likely just retaliate by bashing off a rearview mirror the next time he's around Stony Brook.

Either way, you two are boring the hell out of me.

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shouldn't it be 'devoid' and not 'void'? Don't know if the subsequent mention was a taunting or just a duplication of an error.

Lately, though, I've been, uh, - I've been buying the generic brand of waxed beans. you know. I rip off the label. I can hardly tell the difference.

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I miss Tower Records. And Borders, and Wordsworth and Bailey's and Brigham's and Woolworth's. I miss Filene's Basement all of the gd time, and please don't tell me that it's right there on Boylston Street--it's not. We all lose things. Places change, neighborhoods change. Surely when Hi-Lo came in, there were a lot of folks who grumbled about losing Flanagan's or whatever was there before. But seriously--no one is going hungry here.

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that Whole Foods can mitigate its parking impact without any help from the city. If it can address that issue without changing the infrastructure or requiring city personnel (traffic cops -- see the Brookline Trader Joe's), then a CBA likely won't apply here.

The problem is that Whole Foods hasn't addressed parking concerns beyond borrowing space from the MSPCA. Whole Foods is right to back away from a CBA now, but even so much as a stop light or a lane change can bring that CBA back in a hurry.

Oh, and you're wrong about CBAs applying solely to big box stores. They apply to any commercial enterprise receiving public funds, which is why arenas built in cities through public funding in the last 20 years have been bound by CBAs.

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If so this is the first I've heard of it.

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Or did you just reflexively spit at the screen?

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Did you think to answer the question in a polite way or did you just get your hackles up for no reason? As other have pointed out, this is a grocery store replacing a grocery store. Same footprint, same parking lot. Surely if parking issues come along they'll be able to handle it, CBA or no.

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The one that addressed potential issues, you'd see that "they'll be able to handle it" may result in public intervention (road work, police personnel, etc.). That would put a CBA into play.

The footprint and parking lot aren't the only elements directly affected by Whole Foods' arrival. As I said earlier, the assertion that Whole Foods currently has no reason to enter into a CBA is correct. No public funding is being used, no public property is being used and no public employees are being used. Whole Foods could deck parking over the existing building similar to the setup at Symphony and keep the city out of it altogether.

IF public money or resources enter the equation -- and that's a big if -- then community groups could rightly counter with a CBA. That's leverage they don't have right now.

See what appears once you take a squeegee to the screen?

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Once again I think you're wildly overestimating my froth level. I'm not too interested in what-if predictions about what might happen if WF's traffic or parking situation becomes a problem. I just doubt that it will be an issue or that WF will ever have to entertain the idea of building a Guggenheim-style parking garage above the store a la Westland Road (which doesn't exclusively serve WF and certainly wasn't built by them).The hand-wringing about possible traffic issues on Centre Street just seems to be another scary winged-monkeys scenario that the Whose Fooders are desperately throwing in the pot, along with the skyrocketing home prices and the prospect of a flock of Gordon Gekko types moving into Hyde Square.

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The other stuff is just scare-tactic nonsense, but the Gordon Gekko types are already here. I'm not a fan of painting big swaths of people with a broad brush, but why do the doughy guys in blue office shirts always seem to be the biggest jerks? Thank the corporate gods that JP doesn't have a happy hour.

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You must be going to a different Canary Square that I do (and I love the Haven too, btw). I'm pretty much struck every time I go by the nice cross-slice of JP people in there--definitely light on the hardcore young hipsters but otherwise a good fruitcake of mixed race/ethnicity, gender, and (perceived) sexual orientation, kid-friendly but not a totally kindergarten either. And a nice age range as well, which is an unexpected treat for those of us who were born before Nixon resigned. It's definitely a place for beer fanatics and people who like to watch soccer, and the music's a bit loud for my taste but I haven't noted a high a-hole quotient.

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of a situation where there was a CBA when one store replaced another store? I understand about NEW development, particularly when there are tax breaks or a new use of public land, but the JP Whole Foods is simply moving into the store vacated by Hi Lo. It's still a grocery store; it didn't receive any public funding or tax incentives to come; the building has been rennovated but not expanded; there's no change of use. If anyone can think of a comparable situation that included a CBA, please post the info here. Thanks!

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We demand!?!?!?

These guys are crazy. You can't demand something if you have no power. These meetings must be a hoot.

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No power? They got Whole Foods to bend on donations to the Hyde Square Task Force and a salad bar for the Curley School. Exactly what is Whole Foods doing to make its critics believe they have no power?

Seriously, are you that guy who drives the beater green Chevy up Boylston every afternoon honking at people who stop to make turns? I thought you lived in the bottom of a whiskey bottle.

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As far as I remember, the donations to the HSTF and the Curley came along very early, well before all the kerfuffle. Not to mention they're consistent with WFs existing pattern of community involvement. What's your basis for arguing that Whose Foods had anything to do with those contributions?

Honestly, you guys keep talking as if Union Carbide were moving into Hyde Square, with Dick Cheney and Voldemort at the helm.

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The HSTF donation came smack in the middle of the kerfuffle. The Curley salad bar, meanwhile, came only after someone chimed in with a suggestion during a meeting with Whole Foods. Coincidences though they may be, they seem to coincide a bit too strongly with neighborhood pressure.

I'm not a part of the anti-chain, keep-'em-out crowd. I'm just sayin' that the guy who spoke up before about JP being the kind of place where people will be loud about the wrong issue for a good reason may have a point about action yielding results. A nonprofit donation and salad bar ain't much, but who knows if Whole Foods would have given anything without the neighborhood putting a little squeak in the wheels?

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But in the interests of fairness, I'd reiterate that this is not new or unusual for them. A quick google shows that it's part of their policy to give five percent of profits to "community groups and non-profits." so I think it's safe to say that this would have been done in any case.

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You got me! After a hard day of foreclosing on the poor and kicking puppies, I like to kick back with a $75 bottle of Bookers and honk at pedestrians. It's like your clairvoyant or something.

I'm sure the fact that the PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD of HSTF is a TEAM LEADER FOR WHOLE FOODS MARKET has nothing to do with WF supporting HSTF.

http://www.hydesquare.org/about_us/board_09.html

And the fact that WF pledges a to support a salad bar at a school near every store had nothing to do with it either.

http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/backtoschool/salad...

Try to keep up bro.

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Funny, I'm told that "bro" is a pejorative these days. Something about cargo shorts, bad beer and worse music. I don't know if it's a pejorative relating to those who use the term or those on the receiving end, but you seem to wear it well.

Only that type of person would think that a supermarket department manager has any sway at all with the front office or with corporate philanthropy. That would be equivalent to a McDonald's manager controlling capital projects for the Ronald McDonald House.

Secondly, Whole Foods' salad bar program doesn't make provisions for where that service will be located and, again, it wasn't until someone spoke up and suggested the Curley that it was put there.

Pleasure doing business with you, "bro." I hope your choice of shorts and music improves with age.

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Arguing with the guy in your head may be fun, but it doesn't make you right.

You see those of us that have worked for an actual corporation know that they often solicit employee input for their charitable giving at the local level. In fact, WF does this:

http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/values/giving.php

"If you have questions about our donation policy or have a nonprofit or educational organization you would like us to support, please contact the Marketing Director at your local store. You’ll find donation request forms on each store’s web page."

So if you think a guy who works for WF and is on the board of a non-profit wouldn't take advantage of that, then I don't know what to tell you.

Your point about the salad bar is ridiculous. Someone pointed out to WF there was a school nearby that might benefit from a program they are eager to provide? Wow! Thanks for the heavy lifting. I'm sure the WF people would have never determined there were local schools nearby.

Don't let your ignorance get in the way of stereotyping someone that doesn't agree with you though. It makes for good comedy.

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How do you know HE doesn't work for a corporation? There seem to be enough assumptions being made between the two of you that your argument borders on fiction.

I can't speak for either of you, but I work for a publicly traded, Fortune 500 corp and our philanthropic activities aren't handled in the trenches. They usually come down from on high and are usually carried out through charitable partners that our company's been working with for some time. It's simple best practices for any company that doesn't want to get entangled with a disreputable organization or an organization that would put it in dutch with its broad client base.

In Whole Foods' case, philanthropy may be built into the best practices, but I'm guessing the company vets its charitable partners pretty thoroughly beyond the "I know a guy" stage. Any delay in WFM's charitable giving in JP was like the company making sure an organization passed muster. Besides, it doesn't take an in-house produce manager to make a company scouting a location realize that there's a non-profit group a block away, or that the Curley School is two blocks in the other direction.

I don't know how you two manage to yell at each other with your heads jammed so far up your own backsides.

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Good for you fortune 500. That makes two of us. Thanks for a post full of things I already know. Next time I'll be sure to include a corporate flow chart for those of you that can't manage to fill in the blanks. "I know a guy"? Please. Did you even read the link about how WF handles their philanthropy?

Thanks for making my point. WF did a 5% day for HSTF on March 22nd. You think Whose Foods and the JPNC had a hand in that? They were too busy hanging banners at intersections and sending out press releases about a bad fit. If you have some proof they did, I'd love to see it. Either WF figured it out on their own or their employee on the board of HSTF lobbied for it.

Regarding angry old man, sounds like you're making assumptions about who he is and I really don't care anyway. It's words on a screen and if he wants to pick a fight with me in cyberspace, that's his business. Don't like my posts, don't read them.

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Because the loudmouth had to have the last word. Well, since it's pretty clear that you're only here to instigate and poke bears, I'm just going to let you go back to the land of "I already knew that" and soak in your tub of self satisfaction.

I agreed with some of your points, you sniped. I disagreed with some of your points, you sniped again.

I don't need to make any of the old guy's assumptions about you. From your conduct here, I already know you're a spoiled little prick and a comments field tough guy. I don't care what your fleshbag life or personality are like because the JP-Stonybrook on this site is a prime-time, Grade A, Certified Organic douchenozzle who isn't worth the paycheck some poor group of investors is affording him.

Keep it up and keep taking the infallible Whole Foods route to this argument. You just keep solidifying the fact that you're one of the extremist assholes I referred to in my original post and you do absolutely nothing for the argument you're trying to make. Whose Foods should just pack it in now, because supporters like you are just doing their job for them.

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This "small" slice of the pie is over 1/3 of store profits because their margins are 3%. IDIOTS.

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