Apparently, people walking across E Street at W. 6 Street in South Boston just can't help themselves: They get across the street and then WHAM, they hit their heads on a short stop sign. Or as a concerned citizen puts it:
This stop sign needs to be raised. Dozens of people hitting head on edge of sharp sign. Has been like this for years.
Ed. question: I've been trying to figure out under what circumstances pedestrians could not see a stop sign and just walk around it rather than slicing open their foreheads on its razor-sharp edges. Is there an overhang or cliff or something there that prevents people from taking a step to the side to avoid potential life-threatening injuries from this red octagon of doom?
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Comments
Even Street View shows a guy
By Saul
Thu, 08/23/2012 - 9:29am
Even Street View shows a guy with a missing head!
Walking into signs seems more
By Matt_J
Thu, 08/23/2012 - 9:30am
Walking into signs seems more of a personal problem rather then a city problem.
Also as someone said on anther message board:
The plural of "anecdote" isn't "data".
I'm a transportation engineer
By Jon S.
Thu, 08/23/2012 - 9:32am
I'm a transportation engineer and I do a lot of projects where we spec street signs. Typically, signs are supposed to be mounted so that the bottom of the sign is 7 feet above the surrounding grade (sidewalk, grass strip, etc.)
So yeah, this one's a bit short.
sidewalk space
By John-W
Thu, 08/23/2012 - 9:38am
It sounds stupid, but I can see people walking into that sign pretty easily. You're walking swiftly down the street and a couple stagger out of the convenience store door on the corner and onto the sidewalk. You move over to the left to get around them and you're sort of looking over to your right and out of your peripheral vision you know there's a pole over there to your left but you don't pick up on the sign (because they usually are placed much higher) and WHACK! I've come close to doing that with window a.c. units sticking out into sidewalks.
Accidents happen. Regulations on stupid things like sign height are there not to make busy work but to minimize the number of accidents that do happen. I'm assuming there is some sort of regulation on sign height...
Thanks to the above!
By John-W
Thu, 08/23/2012 - 9:39am
Simultaneous postings -- the reg is 7' from bottom of sign to ground. Follow the regs.
WOW
By anon
Thu, 08/23/2012 - 9:39am
Get a life!
yeah, why would anyone ever
By pierce
Thu, 08/23/2012 - 9:40am
yeah, why would anyone ever need to move their head in different directions at a crosswalk?
agree with ed note
By slowman4130
Thu, 08/23/2012 - 9:49am
well, generally a stop sign is before the crosswalk, so you would be past the sign before you were looking both ways.
This is a case of "common sense says if you walk into a sign you're a dumbass", but in our sue-happy world that we now live in, everything is always someone else's fault. Kind of surprised someone hasn't sued already.
Eh
By anon²
Thu, 08/23/2012 - 12:12pm
We all like to call people idiots and dumbasses because it makes us tingle and feel a little superior inside. It's human nature.
But truth is, anyone and everyone does some stupid shit a few times a day. How many of us talk or text on the phone once a week while driving? Speed up at a yellow? Allow a distraction when we probably shouldn't? Talk while walking?
I agree with the poster above. It's about limiting liability and reducing freak accidents. Not to mention standardization allows people to instantly know where a sign is supposed to be, something we in Boston are not so good at (proper signage).
[W]ell, generally a stop sign
By Allstonian
Thu, 08/23/2012 - 1:01pm
[url=https://maps.google.com/maps?q=e+st+boston&hl=en&l... particular sign happens to be right at the crosswalk, though.[/url]
Blind pedestrians?
By Ron Newman
Thu, 08/23/2012 - 9:58am
If any live in the area, or visit frequently, this could be a real problem for them.
What.....
By c1josh
Thu, 08/23/2012 - 11:04am
No one here has ever walked into something that they didn't see?
I will admit to walking straight into a lamp post while I was distracted looking at something in someone's yard.
It's negative reinforcement to promote situational awareness, but getting your head sliced open is a much.
I was crossing a street once,
By avjudge
Thu, 08/23/2012 - 12:01pm
I was crossing a street once, approaching half-way and keeping an eye on the car to my right (i.e. in the far lane) that was stopped for me, hurrying so as not to hold her up more than necessary (she was considerate of me, I want to be considerate of her), and I walked straight into - and knocked over - the waist-high "stop for pedestrians in crosswalk" traffic cone/sign that was sitting on the center line!
Wow, was I embarrassed. Built-in audience (the waiting traffic) and all.
This will really get everyone going!
By issacg
Thu, 08/23/2012 - 12:35pm
Those waist-high "State Law - Stop for Pedestrians in Crosswalk" signs that are being deployed on the centerlines of streets all over the place are a damned menace.
I say this as both a driver and cyclist.
These foolish signs cause drivers to "drift" (somewhat automatically) very far to the right of the travel lane so as to avoid the solid object in the middle of the road (and closest to them on the driver's side) and ensure it does not take off their driver's side mirror.
Meanwhile, while the driver's attention is distracted to the left by this stupid sign and they are drifting to the right, they don't see the cyclist on the right (which several mornings per week has been me on Comm. Ave in Newton - a street where there is plenty of room and accommodating bikes and cars should never be an issue).
It would be one thing if these signs were necessary, but they are not. The do not make it any more likely that someone is going to stop for a pedestrian at a crosswalk as they must. And as for the visibility argument (which is used to justify these things), if you can't see or don't notice a crosswalk extending all the way across the road, you should not be driving a vehicle. Further, if you can't see the pedestrian who is waiting to cross the road, and who in most cases is twice as high as this damned sign, well, you shouldn't be driving either.
isaacg: It would be one thing
By anon from Southie
Thu, 08/23/2012 - 7:58pm
isaacg: It would be one thing if these signs were necessary, but they are not. The do not make it any more likely that someone is going to stop for a pedestrian at a crosswalk as they must.
YES THEY DO!! I LOVE THEM... we recently got them in Southie on West Broadway and I have certainly noticed a difference! They don't work 100% of the time but do help. Unfortunately the ones I use the most at W Broadway and F are too often knocked down, probably by large trucks or buses trying to get by the double parkers at CVS. Recently they are totally gone because of construction by Boston Water and Sewer and now
90% of the time no driver stops even when you are into the cross walk.
I would love them to make a sturdier version!
More people should try auto cross racing
By Markk02474
Fri, 08/24/2012 - 12:56am
I'm quite comfortable driving within an inch of a pylon, construction barrel, or bollard, so I too get annoyed by drivers who are unaware of their vehicle's dimensions, giving inanimate objects wide buffers.
How is this even a thing?
By anon
Thu, 08/23/2012 - 11:04am
How is this even a thing?
God forbid
By cycler
Thu, 08/23/2012 - 11:35am
That anyone blind or visually impaired should want to walk on the sidewalk without fear of slamming into unnecessarily low objects.
Everyone is piling on how only an idiot could not avoid hitting this, but a blind person with a cane could avoid the pole, but slam into the sign.
That's why we have ADA to require that the public realm be reasonably free of sharp/ protruding objects at head height.
THANK YOU! Cripes
By Cripes
Thu, 08/23/2012 - 12:08pm
THANK YOU!
Cripes
I have no difficulty
By NotWhitey
Thu, 08/23/2012 - 12:08pm
I have no difficulty imagining that a person could walk into such a sign. In fact, I have difficulty imagining why they wouldn't be obvious. There's traffic in the street, you're talking to someone, you've never been there before, the environment is noisy, and you're distracted.
And God forbid you should consider the blind.
ADA Sidewalks
By anon
Thu, 08/23/2012 - 12:24pm
Even if you personally can see and walk, others may not be as fortunate. Here are the sidewalk designs related to ADA: http://www.access-board.gov/prowac/alterations/gui...
What circumstances?
By Allstonian
Thu, 08/23/2012 - 12:57pm
Let's see...besides the risk to blind or partially sighted people that's been mentioned by many others, what about the fact that the sidewalk isn't terribly wide - an oncoming group of pedestrians, or even a single person with a stroller or a granny cart, could send you sidestepping straight into that sign. Or you could have the sun in your eyes, or driving rain or snow could limit visibility (and be a bit of a distraction.)
Or, since the sign is placed [url=https://maps.google.com/maps?q=e+st+boston&hl=en&l... at the corner of the crosswalk[/url], a pedestrian might simply misjudge the turn into the street and clip their head on the corner of the sign. (I'm legally blind in one eye and my close-up depth perception is not the best - I can imagine that happening to me if I were trying to make a dash across the street.) It's really not that hard to fathom why this poorly-places sign might pose a risk.
Circumstances
By anon
Thu, 08/23/2012 - 2:36pm
Not my finest moment, but many years ago I was hustling along at speed along a sidewalk (running late for something), turned my head to look behind me at the person I was with as I was reaching the intersection, hit the edge of a too-low sign and ended up in the ER with half my hair shaved off having 30-something stitches placed across the large bleeding gash along the side of my head. Feel free to call me an idiot -- I'm not visually impaired, there was no gaping cliff I was trying to avoid -- I was just momentarily distracted. Snark all you want about ADA regulations (and I am guilty of this sometimes too) but overall they make the world a safer and easier to navigate place for all of us, even dumbasses like me who are just in a hurry.
That's by design
By anon
Thu, 08/23/2012 - 1:17pm
That's what you get for trying to walk.
If you don't drive everywhere, you ain't from Southie.
We put out "traps" like this to cull outsiders.
This stop sign needs to be
By Dave
Thu, 08/23/2012 - 1:40pm
[img]http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/7308/sharpedges...
Sorry, I was busy looking at
By Joe C
Thu, 08/23/2012 - 2:05pm
Sorry, I was busy looking at my iPhone while walking and texting; did you say something?
I admit...
By Macophile
Thu, 08/23/2012 - 6:15pm
I once walked into a stop sign that was really low to the ground- the bottom of the sign was about 5 feet 4 inches off the ground- and I am 5 foot 7.... I had my head turned looking at someone next to me and I walked right into the edge of the sign with the side/back of my head. Ended up with occipital nerve damage. Called to complain about the sign it was fixed within a week- but I see signs lower than they should be everywhere- and it can be very easy to walk into them if you are not watching out for them specifically.
Why signs are often lower than the regs require
By roadman
Fri, 08/24/2012 - 9:35am
Before the days of ADA, the minimum required height for a sign was 5 feet. And that was measured from the high point of the street to the bottom of the sign, not from the sidewalk the sign was mounted on. So, if the sidewalk was higher than the street, the sign clearance was even less than 5 feet.
Although a 7 foot clearance had been recommended for urban areas and other certian instances since the 1970s, before the advent of ADA, the rationale for this recommendation wasn't pedestrian safety, but to improve sign visibility over parked cars.
Although the current regs have been in place for over a decade, there are still many people out there (both in government and private industry) who continue to install signs according to the old regs. And if the work order calls for replacing the signs, but not the posts as well (as is normally the case in Boston), it's easy to see how a situation like this could occur.
Huh...
By Macophile
Fri, 08/24/2012 - 1:36pm
Interesting... didn't think they would measure from the street. This street was a hill (I was walking up it- the stop sign was at the bottom of the hill) It could have been the sign was replaced to the old Regulations, but the interesting thing was there was a LOT more pole extending above the sign- makes it seem like a new pole, but the sign was installed the old way?)
Consider the upside
By Markk02474
Fri, 08/24/2012 - 12:59am
The low sign keeps people from walking into the pole!