By Kayla Canne on Thu., 9/24/2015 - 12:23 pm
Residents left a planning meeting to improve South Boston bus services Wednesday night frustrated by bus stop changes the T developed without first asking the public for insight into major issues in the area.
Jenn Menjin said she came to the meeting expecting to learn about plans to permanently relocate bus routes from East Fourth Street to the less congested streets of East Broadway, but was surprised to hear about plans to eliminate some bus stops completely, leaving fewer stations in the area despite public feedback requesting otherwise.
“I feel kind of duped in a way. It came as a shock and then at the end, they essentially said ‘this is what will happen,’†the South Boston resident said. “They had this meeting, but they’re going to do it either way.â€
Wednesday’s meeting was one of a two-part series held by the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority aimed at enhancing service reliability and efficiency throughout South Boston. The MBTA hired consulting associates Nelson\Nygaard to develop a revised transportation system after receiving complaints regarding overcrowding and inaccessibility at many bus stops.
Nelson\Nygaard Consulting Principal Ralph De Nisco presented a plan suggesting current bus routes along East Fourth Street and P Street be moved to East Broadway and Farragut Road, where streets and sidewalks are wider, allowing for increased passing areas for both buses and residents.
De Nisco’s plan also included evaluations on each current and future potential stop, which analyzed sidewalk conditions, parking impact and resident and bus accessibility. Using these evaluations, De Nisco developed plans to eliminate “about every other stop and improve the ones in-between.â€
However, many residents said there aren’t enough buses in circulation already, and to reduce the number of stops would cause more congestion around remaining stops in the area.
“This is unacceptable,†Menjin said. “I walk to work every day — I have that luxury — but I walk out and there’s about 60 people out on Broadway at 7:30 a.m. We can’t be getting rid of bus stops when there’s already so many people waiting.â€
Other residents complained of frequently being passed by full buses, making them late for work or forcing them to wait outside in colder months for up to an hour at a time.
Around 15,000 South Boston residents rely on buses for transportation every day, according to the MBTA.
Sheila Greene, a resident of South Boston, said the issue of overcrowding stems from a lack of efficient planning surrounding South Boston’s recent development and population boom over the last decade.
“For five years the MBTA knew there would be an influx of over a thousand people into South Boston, yet you never built an infrastructure around any kind of plan to support these people,†Greene said during the meeting.
This poor planning became more evident to Greene during the meeting, when there was no mention of weather-related detour routes in the proposal. During the heavy snowfall last winter, buses were rerouted in an emergency action plan by the MBTA. Other residents spoke of harsh bus conditions throughout the winter, including un-shoveled sidewalks that made accessibility to buses difficult.
“Winter is a blink away and they haven’t planned this out yet. It’s insane,†Greene said after the meeting. “We have this meeting and they’re not even talking about the #11 bus, which was problematic last year. I don’t get it.â€
At the end of the two-hour meeting, many of the 40 residents present asked if there would be a voting process before the MBTA goes forward with the proposal, but did not receive a clear answer from either De Nisco or members of the MBTA in the audience.
David Carney, the assistant general manager for bus operations and service planning for the MBTA, said he thought the meeting was successful and gave the MBTA the chance to educate residents on the issues and constraints they face when developing new transportation plans. However, he stressed that at this time the plan is just a concept and resident feedback will be taken into account.
“This is not something that is cast in concrete,†Carney said. “We will still have another meeting, and where they have comments we will listen. There is a possibility that we could step back from all of this.â€
Residents and officials will have another chance to express their ideas and concerns at the next preliminary planning meeting on Sept. 30 at 5:30 p.m. at the Tynan School.
Topics:
Neighborhoods:
Like the job UHub is doing? Consider a contribution. Thanks!
Ad:
Comments
A few more (or less) bus stops ain't gonna change a thing.
By TommyJeff
Thu, 09/24/2015 - 12:54pm
Not when that daily number of riders increases as Southie continues to grow.
Not too mention the AM & PM drivers from points south cutting through Southie via Day Blvd, Dot Ave & Dot St., etc.
There's just too many cars, not enough pavement and no groundbreaking ideas to fix it. Hiring a consultant is nice (and expensive) but if the powers that be at the MBTA couldn't think of this pretty basic plan on their own then how can we honestly expect them to come up with a solution?
There was a solution
By Ari O
Thu, 09/24/2015 - 1:10pm
It was to run frequent 60' buses to/from South Boston via the Silver Line. The same buses which are full going outbound from South Station at rush hour now, but empty going inbound.
This was 10 years ago, but it infringed on Southie's right to double-park on Broadway, so they refused to let it run there, so it was pushed elsewhere away from where people lived, and no one rode it, and the T threw in the towel (and I can't blame them).
Sorry, Southie, you had your chance and stuck your thumbs to your noses and now you have the audacity to complain? You can't make this shit up.
Next please.
Do you think that maybe
By El Danimal
Thu, 09/24/2015 - 1:20pm
a good number of the people that live in Southie today didn't live there 10 years ago?
Yes, that is true. But the
By KBHer
Thu, 09/24/2015 - 2:07pm
Yes, that is true. But the census tracts around Telegraph Hill have the highest levels of 30+ length of residency in the City of Boston. So more people are there, yes, but the old boys are still around in force.
'Old Boys'
By anon
Thu, 09/24/2015 - 6:41pm
what exactly are you trying to say?
Just: "long-term residents".
By KBHer
Fri, 09/25/2015 - 10:52am
Just: "long-term residents".
^^^
By SoBo-Yuppie
Thu, 09/24/2015 - 1:23pm
What he/she said.
Dedicated Bus and Bike Lanes on Broadway is the only solution! Screw the few left over, cranky townies that want to double park and drive everywhere.
You live in Southie?
By anon
Thu, 09/24/2015 - 2:29pm
You would know that the population has increased significantly, not all residents drive or ride skateboards to work and the buses going down Broadway go nowhere near the Silverline. You really can't believe everything you read on the Interweb.
Those us who were around back
By anon
Thu, 09/24/2015 - 4:10pm
Those us who were around back then know that the buses were supposed to go down Broadway. Pretty evident you didn't live in Southie back then.
> You really can't believe
By anon
Thu, 09/24/2015 - 4:24pm
> You really can't believe everything you read on the Interweb.
Yep. Don't believe the boston.com article on how South Boston killed the routing down Broadway and had it replaced with routings down D Street and First Street
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/art...
Also, don't believe the maps from Wikipedia with those routes.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1...
And don't believe the death of SL3 due to low ridership by sending it down streets where no one lives instead of down the corridor where people now complain about there not being enough buses.
Facts on the ground are there would be Silver Line on Broadway if Southie hadn't killed it.
The God Given Right to double
By that's nice dear
Thu, 09/24/2015 - 1:20pm
The God Given Right to double park and 'space save' in Southie has done more to ruin transit there than anything.
The solution would be a real
By bgl
Thu, 09/24/2015 - 1:53pm
The solution would be a real subway line (or light rail) going through the middle that hopefully connected up to the Seaport, as the Seaport is only going to make this worse in a couple of years.
Build a modern elevated train
By idea!
Thu, 09/24/2015 - 2:44pm
Build a modern elevated train down broadway!
Idea
By Suldog
Thu, 09/24/2015 - 4:06pm
From at or near Broadway Station - an elevated line down the length of First Street, cutting over toward Castle Island at the end of First, then back around over Day Boulevard and Old Colony.
It will probably never happen but it would eventually alleviate loads of problems, IMVHO.
Suldog
http://jimsuldog.blogspot.com
Streetcars
By fefu
Thu, 09/24/2015 - 3:48pm
Having cute little streetcars running through Southie that you could hop off and on would be nice.
Edit
By Ari O
Fri, 09/25/2015 - 6:14am
Having streetcars AGAIN running through Southie.
Back in the day, the 9 bus ran down Broadway and then in to the Pleasant Street subway portal and on to Boylston (where the old cars are stored) and Park and beyond. One seat ride, and not just to South Station.
http://www.wardmaps.com/viewasset.php?aid=14060
Please improve upon this...
By SoBo-Yuppie
Thu, 09/24/2015 - 2:36pm
THE SOLUTION!
Every Weekday - 6:00am - 10:00am
No parking or driving on the north/east side of West and East Broadway. This will be a dedicate bus lane running straight to Broadway T.
Just to the left of the dedicated Bus Lane will be a dedicated bike lane.
Cars heading away from Broadway T can continue to use the south/west side.
Cars headed into the city can use 1st street.
Also, have buses that only go to Broadway T and loop immediately back to the beginning in City Point.
Add a bus route that goes up D street into the SoBo Waterfront. This will keep people off the other Buses (9, 11) and the Red Line...and get them to work much faster.
Every Weekday - 4:00pm - 8:00pm.
Just the opposite of the above.
Let's be honest
By Goosen
Thu, 09/24/2015 - 5:17pm
This is Southie we're talking about. The old guard that screams the loudest about everything will make damn sure nothing changes. A simple, no brainer change to move the busses from east 4th to Broadway is still being shouted down for no reason
Why is this a no brainer?
By JB
Mon, 09/28/2015 - 2:15pm
Why exactly is putting the end of the 5, 7, 9, 10, routes on B'way a no-brainer? B'way is more congested than 4th St.
No,
By bosguy22
Mon, 09/28/2015 - 2:45pm
It's not.
I spent most of the winter
By Girl in Southie
Thu, 09/24/2015 - 1:07pm
I spent most of the winter walking from Southie to Downtown because I couldn't get on a bus (all filled) unless I walked to East 1st St, the first stop. It took 20 min for me to walk to the bus stop (not including the time it took to stand there and wait) and it only takes 40min to walk to work - so I decided to save myself the aggravation and just walk. If you remember how much snow we had (how can you forget) you know that this will end up being one of those stories I tell my grandkids "Grandma had to walk 3 miles to work in 4 feet of snow every day for 3 months...barefoot!" Kidding, but just about the barefoot part.
Anyway, my point is the public transportation in Southie sucks and is only made worse when the weather gets bad.
I like that the buses have been moved to Broadway. It's a bigger road, buses can easily navigate around double parked cars and there are less turns. I also don't see why people aren't in favor of eliminating every other stop. If you live on M St, for example, and that stop gets eliminated, your walk to either N street or L street is not that far. The faster these buses make the loop around, the faster they're back to pick up more people. But to be honest, I don't really care either way whether the buses go down E4th and stop at every block or not. What I do care about is the amount and frequency of the buses. There just isn't enough or they aren't spaced out appropriately. It makes no sense to have 3 buses in a row (2 empty) and then not another bus for 15 minutes and it's filled before it gets to P St.
I don't know what the solution is but what we have now is not working. Also, these MBTA community meetings start at 5:30pm and the last one was apparently poorly attended. I can't speak for everyone, but it's really difficult to leave work at 5pm and get to a meeting by 5:30 especially if you're relying on the MBTA to get you there (isn't that ironic).
"MBTA community meetings start at 5:30pm"
By Boston_res
Thu, 09/24/2015 - 1:51pm
This is completely frustrating. Just about everyone I know who relies on the MBTA, due to financial reasoning, can't make any of these meetings.
You want MBTA salaried workers to work late?
By Markk02474
Thu, 09/24/2015 - 2:01pm
for some dumb community meetings? They don't get overtime for that.
That's The Set Up
By Been There
Thu, 09/24/2015 - 8:03pm
You people in Southie need to reach out to the neighborhood organizers in Mattapan that killed the so-called "28X bus." The 28X was to have been a dedicated busway from Egleston Sq to Mattapan Sq down the middle fo the road following the route traveled by streetcars removed in the mid-50s. There were numerous problems with the plan and they finally killed it in favor of more-frequent service.
They instead got the extra-long articulated buses that now ply the route. Why? because MassDOT had already ordered the buses for what was expected to be a "shovel ready" project and there was no expectation the route and the BRT plan would be killed. Now the T is trying to relocate stops and eliminate stops to make the extra long buses work better. never mind that these long buses are prone to jack-knifing and often have to be taken out of service in the winter until the roads are cleared.
MassDOT often set the community meeting times at odd hours when no one could make it, had a poor track record of announcing them, and almost never engaged city and state elected officials in the process. It was a set up from the get-go.
Eventually the neighborhoods organized and got their elected people on the same page and the plan being foisted on them was killed.
Southie needs to do the same thing to get the "public" transit system working for the public.
you make too much sense...
By bosguy22
Thu, 09/24/2015 - 1:53pm
It's absurd to have 3 buses in a row, 1 totally empty, one w/ 10 people on it, and the other full. It's also crazy to move the buses back to E. 4th where they get trapped by oncoming traffic (esp in the snow), and have stops every block. What I don't think you've figured out is, people in Southie complain about anything new or different than what they're used to. "Things used to work fine" isn't really a solution to new problems.
"What I don't think you've
By relaxyapsycho
Thu, 09/24/2015 - 4:05pm
"What I don't think you've figured out is, people in Southie complain about anything new or different than what they're used to."
Kind of a broad generalization that would be deemed offensive if it was an all encompassing statement made about any other demographic.
But PC only applies to minorities so it's all fair game.
No one
By anon
Thu, 09/24/2015 - 2:36pm
said anything about anyone's ethnicity, age, religion, creed, or nationality, except their current residence in a particular neighborhood. Neighborhoods have cultures and norms all of their own.
And since it's based on well
By Scratchie
Thu, 09/24/2015 - 2:47pm
And since it's based on well-documented public behavior, it's hardly an unfair generalization.
Agreed
By relaxyapsycho
Thu, 09/24/2015 - 2:58pm
Bet you were shocked by this recent post:
http://www.universalhub.com/crime/20150924/multipl...
No, because it's consistent
By Scratchie
Thu, 09/24/2015 - 3:18pm
No, because it's consistent with behavior in that neighborhood, just like being selfish asshole is consistent with behavior in Southie.
Gold star for you Scratchie.
By relaxyapsycho
Thu, 09/24/2015 - 3:20pm
Gold star for you Scratchie.
'Well Documented'?
By anon
Thu, 09/24/2015 - 3:11pm
Where are these 'documents'? Are they scientifically vetted? Are they as reasonably trust-worthy as, say, DOJ and FBI crime stats, or just mostly anon people making (biased?) claims?
In this city, for whatever fucked up reason, 'Southie', South Boston is code (for some people) for scary, uneducated, backward urban white trash, who must be eradicated by any means necessary, so Boston can continue it's expanding 'gentrification' (meaning, the locals, 'townies', need to gtfo asap) to make room for more cosmopolitan and sophisticated people from suburban Connecticut, NY and NJ.
Just sayin'.
Ouch
By anon
Thu, 09/24/2015 - 5:39pm
I am rubber you are glue....
Clearly you haven't met everyone from Southie.
Oh my God, you poor martyr.
By MattL
Thu, 09/24/2015 - 6:18pm
Oh my God, you poor martyr.
As a side note - this is my
By Girl in Southie
Thu, 09/24/2015 - 4:06pm
As a side note - this is my 11th year in Southie, so while I'm not "Original", it's hard for me to accept a "newcomer" tag. Not that you suggested that, but what I'm saying is that I've had plenty of time to get used to change because I've seen a lot of it in this decade. Some is good, some is bad - but it's true that there is a lot of resistance to it in this neighborhood and some is warranted but some of it is spiteful. Like, it wasn't our idea so it must be a bad one - and that goes both ways for Old/New residents.
The residents need to be more organized
By Boston_res
Thu, 09/24/2015 - 1:09pm
The poor planning and poor guidance during emergencies will continue as usual. The only way this will change will be through the efforts of neighborhood residents. A group of them (as many as possible) need to get together, mark up a map and present it at these meetings. The MBTA officials (as far as I know) don't live in South Boston and so can't really feel the pain of the residents. Just showing up at meetings and saying "This isn't right" won't get anything done in favor of those effected.
What the residents really need is Ari O.
By issacg
Thu, 09/24/2015 - 2:19pm
Did you see that TURNPIKE UNDER presentation he did at the MassDOT meeting about the Allston Yards/Pike Straightening undertaking? That was some serious S%^&.
If you read his comment above, you'll see that he has probably worked all of this out for the T already, but it seems like he doesn't suffer Townies gently, so you'll have to get him past that.
Ralph?
By BB from Dot
Thu, 09/24/2015 - 2:05pm
Didn't Ralph DeNisco used to work for BTD?
MBTA is a state agency, but ...
By JohnAKeith
Thu, 09/24/2015 - 2:16pm
Public transportation is a regional issue but, correct me if I'm wrong, the letters "M B T A" seem to have never passed the lips of Southie's TWO city councilors, Michael Flaherty and Bill Linehan.
MBTA should
By Hmm
Thu, 09/24/2015 - 2:22pm
team up with the BRA to build a time machine so they can travel back and say no to a handful of developers along the way.
I'm glad the city has learned from what's happening in Southie and have decided to not approve high rise housing projects at an alarming rate... OH WAIT!
I didn't have the opportunity
By BPlusPlayer
Thu, 09/24/2015 - 5:23pm
I didn't have the opportunity to go to the meeting yesterday, but I plan on going to the Tynan next week.
I love that the 5, 7, 9 and 10 run on Broadway and bypass East 4th. I live on East 5th and it's just another short block with an incline (some streets higher than others) and I don't mind walking it because the service has been more efficient since the change in February. No longer is the bus stuck behind double parkers at Sidewalk Cafe and I haven't seen five (yes five) buses stuck behind a garbage truck since the change.
I would like the 7 to start running on Sundays. Right now I'll walk into town, but once the weather changes I'd like to not have to take another bus, plus the red line just to get into town.
Busses
By anon
Thu, 09/24/2015 - 5:33pm
The buses shouldn't be just on East Broadway - it is a mixed use residential/commercial street and can't tolerate the amount of buses going by daily. What about the elderly who now have to walk many more blocks to catch a bus - they depend on public transportation too.
By "many"
By bosguy22
Fri, 09/25/2015 - 8:43am
more blocks, you mean 1.
Put the buses back to the original route.
By Smith
Thu, 09/24/2015 - 8:05pm
East Broadway is a cut through street for South Shore traffic - East 4th is not. East Broadway has a school and is already a very busy road - East 4th is not. East Broadway can't handle the traffic or the weight of the buses - East 4th held trains for many years and can handle the weight of the buses. Where is Flaherty, Linehan and Collins on this issue? Enough of the radio silence local politicians.
Why?
By anon
Thu, 09/24/2015 - 10:25pm
So they can get stuck behind trash trucks and double parked cars again? Sounds great. I will be awaiting your report detailing the structural integrity and weight capacity of East Broadway and East 4th. I guess will ignore the fact that East Broadway is about 4 times the size of East 4th, but yep East 4th is much better equipment to handle increased traffic.
They are right
By anon
Fri, 09/25/2015 - 8:26am
East 4th Street was designated for transit system back in the day based on the structure of the underlying street, which is very different than Broadway's structure. That makes East 4th better equipped to handle the weight of the busses, as well as the constant flow of them. Go look it up.
That's ridiculous
By bosguy22
Fri, 09/25/2015 - 8:45am
So East 4th uses stronger asphalt that Broadway? I don't need to "look it up", it's a ridiculous statement. Broadway is much better equipped for buses than East 4th.
Regarding Southie Bus Routing
By Div2Supt
Fri, 09/25/2015 - 8:38pm
The modern East Fourth Street routing dates back to horsecar days; namely the extension to North (City) Point shortly after the Civil War. After electrification in the early 1890s the streetcars continued to use that routing up until the 09 was bustituted in 1953.
As a historical note: road quality DID impact omnibus routing in the 1830s and 1840s. Jonas Gipson made a point of running his coaches entirely via Fourth instead of Broadway to avoid the deep ruts in the road. Seems he had learned the hard way when in the course of a few trips along Broadway the wheels sunk down to the spokes.
But moral of the story: bosguy22's point still stands. We have come a long way from macadam, Belgian block, and cobblestones. The MTA/MBTA and City of Boston have had since 1953 to figure this out. If we can't get past the provincial attitudes in 2015 then when? The 23rd century when folks will just be able to double park their hover-cars vertically?
Need a ruler?
By JB
Mon, 09/28/2015 - 2:25pm
B'way is FOUR times the size? Really? Maybe four, or more times the traffic load.
Can't handle the weight?
By BPlusPlayer
Fri, 09/25/2015 - 11:20am
Can't handle the weight? Outbound buses have been running on East Broadway for years.
Pages