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It's bad enough the Bruins lost
By adamg on Tue, 01/05/2016 - 10:21pm
Weber King got caught in the "total chaos" exiting the first Garden event since the T entrance on that side of Causeway closed, forcing thousands of people to cross the street to get to the subway:
Yeah, this isn't gong to work, at all. Need a plan B ASAP.
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Comments
Why did they close a
Why did they close a perfectly good entrance in the first place?
To put up Boston's latest mixed-use tower, natch
Supposedly, in three years, there'll be a tunnel from the Garden/new tower to the T stop.
Infuriating
They managed to keep the parking garage entrance open to the public while they are building the new apartment complex on the other side of the Garden but somehow they couldn't figure out how to keep the pedestrian walkway open for a bulk of the construction? (!)
That you, MBTA and the City of Boston for looking out for the best interests of your riders and citizens. If the goal was to lower housing prices by making Boston less desirable, you're on the right track.
There it is
Can't have a good transit debate without someone alluding to cars not getting screwed while transit riders do.
It really is true in this case!
I'm not trying to bring up the cars vs bikes vs peds debate. I just want to know why they did what it took to leave the parking lot open but couldn't do the same for the pedestrian underpass. (My guess? The parking lot is owned by the Garden who would have demanded the developer to pay them for whenever the lot was closed off.)
My point is neither group should get "screwed". The building permits should not have been given until the developers figure out a way of having these critical transit links remain open for a bulk of the construction. This isn't an insurmountable engineering problem.
Perspective
One of the roads I usually drive down to get to the Sumner was closed on my way to work today because of a new building going up, which caused me to have to go out of my way and catch a light I usually wouldn't. But pedestrians could still use the road to get to get to Maverick station and the Greenway. Should I be just as outraged then?
Will the road be closed for
Will the road be closed for three years? Were hundreds of other drivers inconvenienced as well? If it's pouring out, did the detour cause you to get soaked as you waited at said light?
Well no, but
I was inconvenienced today and pedestrians weren't. That's not fair, because I'm in the group being inconvenienced. So instead of looking at the specifics of the original situation and the reasoning behind decisions that were made regarding it, I'm going to complain about a different time that the other group, who has nothing to do with it, wasn't inconvenienced in a situation that is marginally similar at best.
That's how you internet, right?
Ooohhh, you used "internet"
Ooohhh, you used "internet" as a verb. Does this mean you win the internets?
2/10
.
What are you talking about?
If they closed Mem Drive for 3 years to build a private new building I'd be equally outraged.
It's reasonable to expect the walkway will be closed for a short time. It's not reasonable to close one the most critical and heavily used pedestrian links in the city for THREE YEARS for the benefit of a private developer. The millions of people who need to get between the T and the Garden/Trains in this time period are more important.
Riders will benefit in the end too
With the connection between the Green/Orange and Commuter Rail. Regardless of how long it is closed, and whether or not it is necessary or "right," I still see no connection between this and the parking garage. Apples and oranges, etc.
That's nice darling
Pats head.
Funny how you say "look at the reasoning blah blah". That's the problem. THERE IS NO REASONING that could justify the stupidity here. THERE WAS NO REASONING at all!
And I'm not arguing that there is
What I'm saying is that a parking garage entrance staying open has nothing to do with this. Maybe I went a little analogy heavy, but bottom line is, it does not.
Who cares if thousands of people need to get somewhere
MY CAR MAKES ME SPESHUUULLLLL!
Wow
Clearly your reading comprehension is as on point as your wit. I never said this wasn't inconvenient and I didn't care. I also said that I take the T to the Garden myself, quite often. Also took the Winter Classic train instead of driving. And generally take the T everywhere in the city, with the exception of my daily commute (which takes me through the city), and that will change once GC reopens and I can make a Blue to Green connection without being, gasp, inconvenienced.
What my argument goes back to is that there is no reason to complain about an unrelated parking garage entrance remaining open. Complain about developers getting to do whatever they want in this town all you want, I'm right there with you.
But hey, you know what? Asking a 7 year old to think of (and maybe even type?) a response for you works too. Do you man, do you.
The entrance is within the
The entrance is within the footprint of the tower they are building.
So are the tracks at Government Center
But, with the exception of a few specified weekends, they've managed to keep the train service open while they rebuild the station.
And look more closely at the footprint of the building. There is no legitimate reason why they need to close the existing underground concourse for a full three years.
completely different
No one is building where the tracks are (either station) and on this spot they are going to construct a high-rise tower. Eventually you will get it.
What I (and apparently others here as well)
don't get is what is the overriding necessity to construct the tower such that the current headhouse and underground passage need to be closed for a full three years.
And that is the issue here - this whole thing seems to be driven by the idea of maximizing convenience for the building's contractors, as opposed to maintaining convenience and safety for the people who use the stations every day.
Were there cops
Were there cops directing pedestrian and vehicular traffic, or was it "self-managed" and road ragey?
Red Sox would never allow this
Would not happen around Fenway Park.
More Bad Times Ahead
Lucky no one fell and got trampled in the human stampede. It would be interesting to hear from BPD,MSP and TPD to find out if all their officers who get paid overtime for crowd control left or never showed up!
Yes, it's very important that
Yes, it's very important that the BPD put down whatever they were doing so they could help a bunch of drunk bros cross the street.
Yes, actually
In the morning there have been uniformed crossing guards. I didn't notice which unit. When you have 10,000 people attempting to cross a busy roadway in a new configuration it warrants some police.
And is there any conclusive
And is there any conclusive evidence there weren't any police there? Or are we just cop bashing for the fun of it?
The police I've seen
are Transit Police. While BPD typically provides details in the TD Garden during events, so far they haven't been assigned to crossing duty.
BPD does the crosswalks
BPD does the crosswalks before and after an event. We typically have lots of cops out there directing traffic and some cruisers with the lights on. We pretty much shut down Causeway Street to the pedestrians. The goal is to empty The Garden as quickly and safely as possible.
I haven't worked there in a while, but I imagine with the station closing, it's a nightmare. I can't imagine a lot of cops will take this detail now. If you ever want to curse your existence and question if we humans are truly the dominant species on this planet, try directing traffic one night. It's the worst.
- a Boston Cop
Detail cops get paid to do
Detail cops get paid to do stuff like this. And "maintaining order / keeping the peace" is one of the primary jobs of police officers.
I expect an extensive investigation of this fiasco
to be in the Globe this week.
it will be
You just won't be able to read it if you get home delivery.
Get over it
Really? Crossing a street is now a crisis?
There was a time between the new North Station opening and the tunnel being built. Commuters and Garden event patrons crossed the street just fine for a good year before the tunnel was built. Why has it suddenly become a crisis now?
Because 2016, that's why
There was also a time when there was hundreds of trolly routes all over Boston and the systems ran with far greater frequency and reliability.
But it's a Big Deal to take away this walkway for many reasons. The biggest, as far as I'm concerned, is that they "solved" the problem with having the same station have two different wings by making the connecting tunnel. This was a fix to a major flaw that shouldn't have existed in the first place. But then to meet the desires (I won't say needs) of a private developer this tunnel is closed and tens of thousands of people need to suffer? It's unreasonable to expect this many people to add 5 minutes to their commute for the next THREE years. This is on top of a lengthy closing of one of the most used stops in the system for two years.
The new building can be built without closing the tunnel for the duration. They managed to do that with the parking garage on the other side. (Also see: WTC Path stop in NYC) It's not unreasonable to expect a certain level of service from public transit.
They are building on top of
They are building on top of the underground parking garage on the other side, not excavating around it. Here they are fully excavating all sides of the space that is occupied by the pedestrian tunnel.
It's unreasonable to expect
Note that the extra 5 minutes (or more on some mornings) to cross Causeway Street and use the longer walkway into/out of TD Garden may result in people missing connections, which adds even more time to their commute. So it is a significant inconvenience for a lot of people.
Yes
With the Green line trains running, what, about every 8-9 minutes, an extra 5 minutes will push you onto the next train half the time, and then make you 8-9 minutes late to work/class half the time, not too good for most commuters.
I came into Boston on the Commuter Rail last Saturday, the first day of the new 'traffic pattern.' There were about 15 Transit Cops on duty and absolutely no pedestrian was directed to cross the street at the Garden entrance to the new covered walkway! Everyone was just walking in the middle of the road... sigh...
(Yes, there is a covered walkway for the detour, don't fret, pedestrians!)
Err, not exactly
No, the covered walkway gets you from the Garden to the road. It's uncovered across the road to the entrance to the station -- a much further distance then previously was uncovered. If it's raining hard you'll get soaked. If it's slush you'll have a grand old time.
I can't wait to see the snow banks.
I See Opportunity
Causeway would be a good street to try out what many other cities around the world are trying: making streets car-free. Newbury Street is an obvious candidate, but Causeway might be a good one as well, at least at certain times.
No.
Causeway Street is a major artery, funneling people to Storrow, 93, downtown and into Charlestown. Making it car-free would cause a traffic jam that makes last winter's mess look like child's play.
If anything, the city should be going the other way. In Downtown Crossing, if Washington Street and Winter/Summer intersections were allowed cars, I doubt there'd be as much riff-raff loitering in the area.
Sorry, can you provide more
Sorry, can you provide more detail on the "riff raff" "loitering" in this area? It's not clear who specifically you're trying to demean. Thanks!!
Yes - I walk through there a
Yes - I walk through there a few times a week. My wife works around the corner. I'm trying to demean the packs of people who hang all along there blocking what should be easy access to/fro the area. And the multiple people who have been drunk/stoned and screamed at me, 3 inches from my face in the middle of the day there.
It's pretty simple that if you make it less of a parking lot, and more of a sidewalk where people are moving through, then there will be less of an inclination for people to hang out there.
The worst riff raff in DTX are
..the aggressive nut-jobs trying to raise money for Children International. The drug dealers and teens looking for trouble are saints compared to the assholes with the blue vests.
That would be the methadone clinic.
Down the end of Canal street (Bay Cove or some such). The clients hang out in the area all day, especially in front of the DDs next to the Fours. It's a hot spot for deals and there are always young red-faced townie kids with strollers screaming at each other.
Three years
Thing is in 3 years it will only be half done.
Not only is the headhouse
Not only is the headhouse closed, but the entire sidewalk and driveway beside it are closed (below the red light at https://goo.gl/maps/ae1LnJX8Gbq), forcing everyone leaving that side of the Garden to go through a scaffold-narrowed covered path to Causeway Street on the other side of the garage ramp. Add in people trying to get to the Orange/Green Lines who have to wait for the light to cross Causeway and the above scene is little surprise.
Funny isn't it how fans basically can't bring anything into the Garden because of the "times we live in" (or some such nonsense), yet someone wanting to cause mayhem could just attack the throngs bottlenecked leaving the arena. Imagine the crushing stampede with the pictured crowds.
As of this morning
the sidewalk was closed, but they were still letting cars and trucks use the driveway.
This morning was my first at
This morning was my first at North Station since the headhouse closed, and I was not expecting the sidewalk to be closed as well. Depending on what track you arrive at, it could be faster to exit the Garden at the other side and (attempt to) use the unsignalled crosswalk at Friend Street to cross Causeway.
No need to wait for terrorism
No need to wait for terrorism to cause deaths. I'm sure its just a matter of time before a driver hits and kills one of the thousands of people who are now forced to cross the street.
Eh, don't hold your breath
Unless the driver is a certified sociopath or under the influence of something, the odds are greatly against it. The masses would be readily noticeable, and there would be no upside to trying to power through a crowd. Also, there would be too many witnesses.
Come on, you keep up with these things. A person (or cyclist) by themselves are much more likely to have an unfortunate encounter with a car or truck than when in a crowd.
Yeah, good thing there are no
Yeah, good thing there are no drunken construction workers in the area. You know, the kind who stomp on the gas and expect you to jump out of the way as they leave the bar heading back to NH.
Sure, they can do that for 1, 2, or even 3 people
But if it were 50 people, I think any driver would know the futility of the threat (unless, of course, they are really out of it.)
Doesn't necessarily take a sociopath
or someone under the infulence to cause a problem
http://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/HAR0404.pdf
Plus I'm sure the organizers and attendees of that farmer's market believed the odds of nothing happening were in their favor too.
Okay
I'll add in people of a certain age who mistake the gas and brake pedals, but that said, they sometimes have enough sense not to drive at night, which is when most Garden events occur.