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White privilege on a Red Line train

UPDATE: Statement by Transit Police.

Jamie Davenport reports on an incident Thursday night on a Red Line train ordered held at South Station until the police could clear a group of rowdy black teens off her car. She watched silently - until a cop ordered a black kid who wasn't part of the group off the train as well:

The boy says,

"I don't know them."

The police say,

"It's an order. Everyone in the group has to get off."

I collect my bags. The police looks at me and says,

"Not you. You're not in the group."

The police places his hand on the boys shoulder and guides him off the train. In a moment of temporary rage blindness I stand up and scream,

"He doesn't fucking know those kids."

The police looks at me and says,

"Is that true?"

To which I say,

"Yes, and it was true when he said it too."

The police release the boy and he sits down across from me again. We share a moment of blankness and then tears well in both of our eyes. He waves me over to the seat next to him. He says,

"That was because I am black. Wasn't it?"

I nod. He looks down sheepishly at his shirt and says quietly,

"I'm just happy they didn't hurt me. That would kill my mom. And she is not someone you want to mess with."

I say the only thing I can think,

"I'm so sorry."

He says,

"With all that's going on in the world I am so scared all the time."

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Comments

Is utter nonsense and you sound like a fool using the term.

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Though it reads more like a story than an actual event. A 12-16 year old boy waves over and adult female to sit next to him and they cry together? Mmmmhmmm. Did she get a badge number?

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She posted a piece of fiction and passed it off as truth...and got 45,000 shares and 2,200 comments on Facebook. She should be ashamed of herself.

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Longtime reader and supporter of this forum, but come on. This is horseshit journalism and worse, false race baiting nonsense. Look at how riled up and awful people got down thread. All of it because you published a fictional, one sided version of what happened. How about you reach out to an entity before you accuse its employees of racial profiling.

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Maybe you missed the statement from Transit Police in which they acknowledged the incident happened (yes, they do have a different take on it).

Are you also complaining to the Globe and Boston Magazine?

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Particularly when the embellishment depicts an incident of racial profiling that never occurred. The fact that you posted a one sided account without even attempting to find out what happened is poor form. You screwed up. It happens. Better to just admit it than lose credibility being defensive and pointing the finger at other media sources.

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Dude, chill. There are also stories of a guy wearing a hot dog suit, station stops being out of order on a board, and what may or may not be a corn plant. This is not the NY Times or Fox News or even Boston.com. I personally have my suspicions that the plant is a corn-relative.

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Adam didn't accuse anyone of racial profiling. He noted the kid was removed from the train (which is not disputed) and then quoted the FB poster's account.

I'm personally highly suspect of this account myself but have no problem with Adam posting it. And also note that he promptly posted the T statement as well. I would bet the farm that he'll update this story accurately as events develop.

He's a one man shop doing a great service to the Boston community. As noted he's not the NYT or boston.com.
He's better.
He doesn't have their resources yet he's still more trustworthy and accurate in his reporting.

He has his editorial opinions, as all news outlets do. Don't like 'em or don't trust him then go to a site you do. That's why I'm here and not at boston.com or even NYT for the occasional Boston story they write (where they can't even get the neighborhood names right.)

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The Transit Police state that the kid was off the train when it was verified that he was not part of the larger group. The kid told them. The group confirmed it, as well as an unnamed passenger. (We cannot assume this unnamed passenger was Ms Davenport. Although, one could assume if it were her they would've mentioned her name).

This seems to be the part of the story where most folks feel the fabrication began. She states that the kid was still on the train and was released by the officer after she yelled at him. Nothing in the report mentions a passenger yelling at the police. There have been testimonials from passengers on the train that Ms Davenport did not yell at the officer. What would be the point of the report failing to mention Ms Davenport's involvement?

Because, whether or not her scenario is true or the Transit Authorities report is true one could still make a case for racial profiling.

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... is really pretty immaterial.

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If Davenport writes that she stood and "in a moment of temporary rage blindness screamed" at the transit officer, but it's not true, what about the rest of her story? Why should we believe that the 12 years old from the rowdy group spoke to her? Why should we believe the members of the rowdy group talked about being shot? Why should we believe that the 16 year old Jelani said the things she alleges?

This was all so deeply moving to Davenport that when she posted it to FB, she confessed she couldn't remember Jelani's name.

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It's not about whether or not she yelled. It's about her placing the kid on the train when she says she yelled.

Transit authorities state the kid was off the train when it was confirmed he wasn't part of the group.

Seems like he would've been allowed back on the train without Ms,Davenports involvement.

Had Ms Davenport been involved her name and outburst wouldn't been noted.

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Most people I've asked who say privilege is nonsense can't even define it properly.

Are you really claiming that there is zero bias against black folks in our society? Despite all the studies showing there is bias, despite all the stories like the one posted here, despite our history of slavery, of housing discrimination (when I was born it was still explicitly legal for banks to deny mortgages to black folk who wanted to buy a house in a white neighborhood. Nowadays, it's a bit more subtle but still happens - see the recent stories about Air BnB and other online housing markets struggling to fix discrimination against black customers.)

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No he was correct. White privilege is an inherently racist term. Its suggesting that without any proof or evidence, white people have some sort of advantage because the color of their skin.

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It's suggesting that we don't have an inherent disadvantage because of the color of our skin.

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No because you're still suggesting that based purely on the color of one's skin(white in this case) without any proof, that you enjoy privileges or don't have any "disadvantages." That's BS. Racism goes both ways.

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It's a privilege to lack disadvantage. Yes, you or I may have many disadvantages. We do not have one based on the color of our skin. That can't be said for blacks. Incidents such as the one reported in this thread, the many police shootings, hiring discrimination based upon applicants having "black sounding" names, etc., these are problems that white people do not face.

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If someone says that people of color generally have faced discrimination, you'll find only the most obtuse of bigots denying that. The problem is that the term "white privilege" brings to mind, for many, a picture of lah-de-dah well-off folks named Brandi and Chaz, dressed in polo shirts, shorts and boat shoes without any socks, whose only contact with black people may come when they see them serving brunch at the country club. And being identified with that sort of image is offensive to many of us who are white and otherwise not that privileged.

Suldog
http://jimsuldog.blogspot.com

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That's why people who do understand the idea need to keep talking about, so that nobody confuses it to mean the country club version you've described. As you've noted, most of us aren't that privileged, so let's stay focused on the comparative privilege concept.

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Agreed. But you are still suggesting that based on the color my skin, let me repeat that, based on the color of my skin(white) I'm privileged or don't face "skin color" originated disadvantages. That regardless of my upbringing, economic status, social status because purely the color of my skin just because one it white, they're better off? Do you not see how that is racists?

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When I said, "you or I may have many disadvantages," that was an explicit recognition that other factors can lead to advantage or disadvantage. One such factor is skin color.

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Glad we agree the term "white privilege" is a racist one.

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Because it's really just an observation about white Americans at large vs black Americans at large. Our society tends to favor white people, especially straight white men. No need to invoke your guilt or victim complex, if that's indeed what you're doing.

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That regardless of my upbringing, economic status, social status because purely the color of my skin just because one it white, they're better off?

Yes, they are almost certainly better off than someone with the *exact same characteristics* except they're black, based on how people are treated in our society. But saying someone has white privilege does *not* mean that any random white dude has it better than every random black dude, no matter how many times people intentionally misinterpret it as such. Our society institutionally screws over lots of classes of people - women, non whites, poor people, disabled, etc. We should be striving to eliminate biases along all these fronts.

If you actually want to learn about this, read about intersectionality. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersectionality.

Or keep feeling good about knocking down strawman arguments.

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To which race is the term "white privilege" racist in your mind? Racist towards black people because you believe it implicitly suggests that there is a difference between white and black people, or racist towards whites in some way I can't figure out? My understanding of the term, which I think is fairly common, is that it is a recognition of the fact that in American society, when all other personal traits as between two people of different skin colors are equal, the black person will still experience prejudice more frequently than the white person. This fact is supported by evidence such as the disparate treatment of white and black people by police officers. Do you interpret the term differently, or do you deny the existence of disparate treatment?

I can understand that some white people may dislike this term because they do not feel "privileged" for the reasons explained by Suldog or because they actually feel disadvantaged from an economic standpoint. And I can see that perspective, but it still does not explain how the term "white privilege" is racist.

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You're saying that acknowledging the existence of racism is itself racist? Are you really that thick??

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But they do though. The great thing about white privilege for those who receive it, it often goes unnoticed.
I'm looking forward to the day when we all acknowledge, yes we have our differences between races, and more accurately, cultures. Different doesn't mean one if better than the other, it just means different.

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It is not racist to point out existing biases. White people *are* given certain advantages in our society. That is not the same thing as saying every white person gets treated better than every black person. Statistically, white folks are sentenced to less jail time than blacks for the same crime. They are more likely to be accepted as an Air BnB customer. They are more likely to have a cab driver answer their hail. White sounding names on resumes are more likely to get a call back than black sounding names. There are tons of studies on this. Read about Redlining for some examples and a pile of references: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining The summary is that banks would give loans to poor whites but not poor blacks. That *is* an advantage white people got based on skin color.

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Al Baldasaro (POG)
Charles Kinsey (Behavioral therapist)

One guy says one of the two presidential nominees should be shot. Rationale - Freedom of speech...
The other guy gets shot while trying to help a special needs kid. Rationale - Black guy?

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Evidence, when was the last time you've heard of a white man being shot by police unarmed.....i'll wait smarty pants!

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Well apparently you haven't watched the video you linked, in that video you see a man holding his hand behind his back and walking toward armed police, who are SCREAMING for him to stop. Warning him he'll be shot. Then making sudden aggressive movements with whatever object he's holding . This video actually helps my point, because as a white man you think you should be able to make threatening movements towards cops without any sort of recourse. It's also Apparent he thought the same thing. You both have/had it wrong SatansFist

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You asked when the last time an unarmed white man was shot by the police. He gave you a video of the guy from June 25th.

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Schooled me? That's almost laughable, watch that video. I'm sure you wouldn't take the chance of your wife burying you either genius

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He gave you an example. You didn't say anything about assaulting the officer or charging them.

Satan 1
Dorchesterguy 0

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that was reported on July 14. So the last time we heard about an unarmed white man was shot by the police was 8 days ago

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Sorry I've seen this video on liveleak.com weeks ago.

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Just because the news reports it, (or you don't watch the news that does report it), doesn't mean it didn't happen.

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Show me one instance in which a CLEARLY unarmed white man is shot by the police......I Will wait patiently

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what else do you want to add or change with your original question? attacking the police? Resisting arrest? with someone else that was armed?

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Dude he was acting as if he was armed, he was asking for a ticket to the upper room. Which he received.

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In 2015, 32 unarmed white men were killed by police, and 38 unarmed black men were killed by police.

Source:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings/

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Andrew Henson 6/7/16
Todd Burroughs 5/29/16
Travis Moore 5/21/16
Christian Boweman 5/9/16

There are 18 others this year, want me to name them all?

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Looking at those numbers, and comparing them to the total number of black men and white men in the country, it seems that police shoot a much higher percentage of black men.

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Whether the officer was attacked, whether the person had committed a crime and was fleeing, whether or not the person was in the middle of a crime, whether the person said they had a weapon, etc, etc.

Per Capita the police do shoot a higher percentage of black men yes, but per capita numbers aren't that relevant if you add in other factors. If you actually look at every single case of those 38 last year, you will see the variation in them. Many criminals being arrested, many mentally ill, some innocent bystanders, and some shot while fleeing. Most of them should have been avoided in my opinion.

Not one unarmed black male under the age of 18 was killed by police in 2015 however.

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Wow not one under 18, so it's ok for cops to shoot older black males? Pls clarify I missed your point in adding that

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to death of the cops shooting your kid. According to numbers (if you want to look at them your way), you have a 100% greater chance of being killed by alligators or bees.

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Actually my children are 9 and 1 respectively. So their in the clear for now, hopefully by the time their of age to be out and alone we'll have this issue taken care of

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Because unarmed white kids were 2x likely to be killed by the police than black kids. (2015)

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Really Where did you find this stat.

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1 unarmed white male under the age of 18 was killed by police in 2015, compared to no unarmed black males under the age of 18 killed by police in 2015.

If you look at numbers your way, wouldn't that mean white kids should fear for their lives at 2x the rate as black kids?

(That stat does not include the white 6 year old that was shot and killed by two Louisiana Deputies who went rogue and went after the kid father, if you include him you would have 2 deaths compared to 0)

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Your right The numbers are fairly close, Meanwhile blacks Are 13% of the nations population versus the white non Hispanics making up 62% of the population. No need to link it to you, you seem to use google fairly well Einstein

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You didn't believe anyone could name unarmed white men who have been killed by police. I gave you a list.

Why are 95% of all murder victims in Chicago black when the population is only 32% black? Shouldn't those numbers reflect the population?

You can't look at numbers in a vacuum. You need to think about them.

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Never said you couldn't name a white unarmed shooting victim, I simply asked when was the last time youve heard of one. Then in turn you linked an article that doesn't show the entire encounter (which I've seen ) uncensored. Regardless of our interpretation of each other's posts facts are facts. Unarmed black men far more liked to be shot by the police than a white man or a man over any other race. Furthermore to bring up the Chicago stats is completely irrelevant our current conversation.

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Let's say there are 2 roller coasters, A and B.

In 2015, 50 people died on roller coaster A, and 10 people died on roller coaster B. Which one is safer?

Now what if I told you that all 50 people who died on roller coaster A weren't wearing their seatbelts, but all 10 were wearing them on roller coaster B?

Or what if I said 100 million people rode roller coaster A in 2015 compared to only 15 riding roller coaster B?

See how per capita numbers might not make sense when you put them in context??

Isn't there a Mark Twain quote in here somewhere?

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When was the last time you heard of one? Well, almost never, they don't get any press.

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Uhm, there is proof. Read literally any sociological text about race. Any of them. Just like, pick one out of a sociology textbook bin, and they'll all tell you that. But what do I know, I'm just a white chick who studies this stuff for a living.

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But anyone who doesn't understand what privilege means at this point, doesn't understand it on purpose.

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What privilege or white privilege means? Once you clarify, explain how it is not a racist term?

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But it doesn't really matter, since if it was male privilege, or straight privilege, or "people who learn a term and take it to heart and don't pretend they need it constantly explained to them over and over again" privilege, the arguments wouldn't be all that different.

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Please stop with this whole privilege nonsense. Its honestly exhausting. What are you trying to achieve by suggesting certain groups of people receive inherent "privileges?" Its insidious and culturally destructive.

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So you've spent all this energy arguing against something you haven't even taken the time to google? No wonder your answers seem so disconnected to the actual topic. If you want to participate in this discussion beyond trolling, please make a tiny effort.

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that anyone could be so unknowledgeable about the history of this country as to think that. Do you really not know about the history of racism in the United States, or are you just trying to get a reaction by saying something outlandish?

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You sound like a food for ignoring endless studies and hundreds of years of US history that clearly show white privilege exists in every facet of American life.

-A privileged white male

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Never forget the dying black child and dying white child sharing a room at Children's Hospital and getting along great despite terminal illness. The black parents hated whites and the white parents hated blacks. That is, until the dying children brought them all together. Great story by Barnicle and the Globe. Akin to Kevin Cullen writing that his close firefighter sources told him Martin Richard had just rushed onto the finish line to greet his father as dad completed the 2013 Boston Marathon. Pure fiction both, although the creativity can still be viewed on-line without correction or clarification. That's why it was great to hear that MSNBC asked Barnicle to comment on Mrs. Trump's plagiarism. Can't make it up!

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Treat them like animals.

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So are you saying that every child who is having a meltdown (i.e. can't control themselves like a "normal" adult) should be shot or put in a cage?

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You have it exactly backwards.

I'm really starting to think that anytime someone is tempted to say or type, "So are you saying that", there's a 98% chance that they have it wrong, and that they should STFU and work on their reading comprehension.

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Adam,
Her full description was much more disturbing and deserves to be read in full.

"Something entirely disturbing happened last night on my commute to rehearsal. Bear with me. It is a long tale. But one that is necessary to read and digest.
I was sitting in the corner of the Red Line T closest to the conductor when a group of about 8 black kids from the ages of 12-16 entered.
I automatically noticed their presence because of how absolutely loud and rowdy they were being.
Smiling to myself, because of how crazy they were all acting, I turned up the music in my headphones and bounced along with the train.
I noticed the boy sitting across from me. He entered the train with the other kids, and although also black and about their age, he clearly did not know them. From his body language it was obvious he had desperately wished he sat in another section.
At around the South Station stop the conductor’s door swung open and through my oversized headphones I could tell she told the kids to quiet down. The kids mouthed off to her and she called the MBTA security.
At this point my headphones were off and I am listening with full intent. The MBTA guard, a white man, walks on and within ten seconds announces that he is calling the police and that the train will not move until they come. He is greeted with a resounding, “Are you kidding me?” from just about everyone on the train.
I automatically zone out and think about what I was doing from 12-16.
I think about breaking into my old elementary school and stealing ice cream.
I think about joyriding my boyfriend’s lifted, bright green, Chevy blazer without a permit or a license.
I think about getting caught drinking in a friend’s backyard.
I think about trespassing on private property and swimming.
I think about getting pulled over twice in the same month, on the same road, in the same place, by the same officer, in the same car, for the same reason, and waltzing away from the scene with nothing. And I mean nothing, but “a get home safe.”
I think about every single actually illegal thing I have ever done and realized one harrowing fact:
I have never been touched by a police officer.
I have never been handcuffed.
I have never been to jail.
I have never even gotten a ticket.
I have never left an interaction with the cops with anything other than a “have a nice night.”
I wake up from my reverie and we are still parked at South Station. I tune into the conversation around me and hear the kids. Let me emphasize KIDS. Kids making a game plan for what they will do if the police start to shoot them.
I glance up at the boy across from me. He is squirming. He wants off bad. He is texting fiercely. I’m assuming he’s telling someone what we are both observing.
The girl next to me notices my presence and says,
“Sorry for messing up your ride.”
I say,
“Don’t worry about it.”
My voice catches on the last word. My throat starts to sear. She asks,
“Are you upset?”
I respond,
“Yeah, I guess I am. I just don’t understand why they are calling the cops.”
She says,
“Because we are black.”
The 12-year-old turns to the group and quietly says,
“Black lives matter.”
They all murmur in agreement.
The police arrive and everyone remains very calm. Eerily calm. Everyone is walking on eggshells. The cops step on the train and tell the kids if they get off quietly they can get on the next one and go home. The kids accept the offer and begin to clamor off. At long last the boy across from me and I are left alone.
As I begin to put my headphones back on the police reenter the car. They look at the boy and say,
“We said everyone in the group has to get off.”
The boy says,
“I don’t know them.”
The police say,
“It’s an order. Everyone in the group has to get off.”
I collect my bags. The police looks at me and says,
“Not you. You’re not in the group.”
The police places his hand on the boys shoulder and guides him off the train. In a moment of temporary rage blindness I stand up and scream,
“He doesn’t fucking know those kids.”
The police looks at me and says,
“Is that true?”
To which I say,
“Yes, and it was true when he said it too.”
The police release the boy and he sits down across from me again. We share a moment of blankness and then tears well in both of our eyes. He waves me over to the seat next to him. He says,
“That was because I am black. Wasn’t it?”
I nod. He looks down sheepishly at his shirt and says quietly,
“I’m just happy they didn’t hurt me. That would kill my mom. And she is not someone you want to mess with.”
I say the only thing I can think,
“I’m so sorry.”
He says,
“With all that’s going on in the world I am so scared all the time.”
We sit in silence for a moment and I decide to change the subject. I ask him about himself. He tells me he is is entering his junior year of high school and spending the summer working for an organization that aims to help people learn how to have healthy relationships. He says he wants to help stop domestic abuse. He tells me he is passionate about gender equality. He asks me if I know there is a difference between sex and gender. He says he wants to educate the public on that topic.
The train rattles into my station and I shake his hand. He says,
“Thanks.”
I mumble,
“Don’t mention it.”
I exit the train and watch it pull away. And then I weep. I weep in a way I never have before. My breath shortens and I begin to crumble.
I weep for Trayvon Martin.
I weep for Mike Brown.
I weep for Sandra Bland.
I weep for Alton Sterling.
I weep for Eric Garner.
I weep for all of the names I do not know but should.
I weep for their families.
I weep for their friends.
I weep for the innocent blood shed all over this country.
I weep for that boy.
I weep that I cannot remember his name because it is not as familiar to me as James or Tim or Dave.
I weep for those kids.
I weep for all of those kids.
I spend the night replaying the whole scenario over and over again in my head. And realize that three words keep running through my mind. Three words that until I heard a 12-year-old black girl say aloud to her friends as they awaited the police I did not understand. Three words that are so little but mean so much.
Black Lives Matter.
I stop crying. I become resolute. I make a pact with myself to help the world become better for those kids.
I make a pact with myself to spread this story like wildfire.
I make a pact with myself to be an ally to that beautiful boy.
It starts here.
Before you read on make a pact with yourself to join me.
Before you read on commit yourself to this cause.
Before you read on openly admit that racism is alive and thriving in this country.
Before you read on promise yourself you will say the following three words ALOUD:
Black Lives Matter.
Didn’t do it? Here’s another chance:
Black Lives Matter.
Still can’t say it? Ask yourself why?
Black Lives Matter
Here’s another chance:
Black Lives Matter.
Here’s another chance:
Black Lives Matter.
Black Lives Matter.
Black Lives Matter.
BLACK. LIVES. MATTER."

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A train conductor tells a group of very rowdy teens to settle down, teens get "mouthy" with the train conductor.

Conductor calls MBTA security.

MBTA security arrives and tells the teens to leave for essentially verbally harassing a conductor, if not the police will be summoned to deal with it further.

Teens don't leave, so the cops arrive.

Cops broom them off the train with zero physical force, though one teen remains.

Cop asks remaining teen to leave, zero physical force used.

Teen says he wasn't part of the group. This despite they all arrived together in the same group and, despite being very uncomfortable, decided to stand next to the obnoxious teens.

Cop doesn’t believe him, because you know, all teenagers are always very honest when in trouble.

So what does the kids color have to do with this exactly? Nothing except the author decided to make it about race.

Do you really think a cop would initially believe a white kid from Charlestown that he wasn't part of an obnoxious group of teens who got booted from a train, even though that kid arrived with them in the same group and was standing right next to them the whole time?

Good story, though a bit too dramatic for my tastes.

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A random spectator stood up and screamed at the MBTA cop, and where the 12 year old shared a cry with said spectator.

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we google search a few of the lines, would we find someone telling a similar tale somewhere else? Has this been lifted from somewhere else, revised to make it local, and then posted?

also, was this train practically empty? or was everyone's cell phone batteries dead? i am surprised there is not a video or picture or similar comment or tweet

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https://twitter.com/MBTA/status/756437391439605760

I mean if this did happen as the author claimed, there would be something in the police log.

meanwhile, 15K likes, 37K shares on FB, and 1,500 comments...

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And this incident, or non-incident, had nothing to do with threatening black lives. Apparently, this woman's narrative is, at best, an exaggerated, over-dramatic piece of click-bait yellow "journalism" perfectly crafted to go viral and attract zillions of page views, likes, followers, advertiser dollars, freelance assignments, and/or just plain attention for the author. Meanwhile, it needlessly stokes passions, exacerbating social divisions while trivializing the very real issue of police-on-civilian violence.

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This is an amazing post. Thanks for sharing. What can we do about how people, in this case the cop, see things. I doubt he was trying to intentionally group all of the black people on the train together, but he did so instinctively. We can provide training to police on when and when not to use deadly force, as evidenced by the difference between how BPD and other, poorly trained, police forces around the country react to similar circumstances. But getting someone to change their instinctive perception when grouping people together? That is a huge challenge if it is something that can even be changed at all.

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And 50 of those times all of the black kids will scatter and sit down pretending they don't know each other, and won't even acknowledge the driver/cop/other riders/etc.

In all seriousness, what should the cop do then? Honest question for everyone.

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He should do his job and not herd people based on skin color after they 'scatter'.

And if hes unable to properly assess a situation involving kids on a train then he should turn in his badge and gun.

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Just a tantrum. Productive, thanks.

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The group got on at the same station as Jelani. Jelani was seated near them. When police arrived no one was being rowdy. I don't think it was a stretch to believe that a 16 year old black child in close proximity to the group was with the group. All parties agree cops were calm & polite. Jelani was returned to the train car in less than a minute.

Jelani and the group & an adult bystander told "T" police Jelani was not in the group.

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If the kids were truly rowdy (disruptive to the point of causing harm and/or damage), then, yes they should be removed. However, according to this women's story, the one black kid who said, "I'm not with them", was ignored by the cop and the situation needed her intervention so the cop would believe the black kid. That is a problem.

If they were just kids being kids, being loud and obnoxious but with no threat to others, than no, I do not think they should be removed. However, mouthing off to the conductor is not cool and it would be a cause for removal. It depends on which battles one wants to pick.

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But my question is what do you do when the kids scatter or just ignore you?

This does not mean what the police or T employee did was right, but people should speak up, and that is part of the problem, is that people never do. Good for the woman for actually saying something.

I also bet not every kid in that group was being disruptive, just a few of them. But all of them get lumped into one category (even by the original writer) as "rowdy black kids". I'd bet my life that some of those kids were just going home and were also not a problem.

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So what if they scatter and you only kick off two kids? Odds are, the rest will STFU for the rest of the trip, lest they be identified and have to put up with something between being inconvenienced for 10 minutes and getting roughed up by a cop/quasi-cop.

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When the cops get off and the kids start to intimidate everyone again, then what do you do?

And odds are they kids won't stfu when the cops leave, that much I've seen first hand.

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Who the hell were they intimidating? According to the story, they were being rowdy - this is something white teenagers do. Also according to the story, it was that group, her, and the 12 year old kid on the train so who were they intimidating. As to the comments about how the 12 year was seen entering with that group, the only witness to that was the person relaying the incident. She was by the conductor's door, who was facing forward - DRIVING THE TRAIN. If you saw a group of loud white teenagers talking to each other, would you call the cops? I ride the B line all the time and can say the answer to that is no because it describes BU, BC, and NE students, as well as Emerson, Berklee, etc. Loud and obnoxious but no one is going on about "intimidating". This was kind of the whole point of her post, if you actually read it.

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T cops usually aren't too busy for that, I imagine.

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But what happens when someone complains that you (the cop) only ride the train when black kids act up, and not when white kids act up.

Because you know that complaint is coming.

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This is a valid question. I would think that if the cop were able to get all the other kids off of the train and one kid remained and when that kid said he didn't know them the cop could have believed him and let him stay thinking why would one kid not go with the group?. The cop also could have thought, ok maybe he does know them but now he is only one kid on the train and what bother could he be to the remaining people on the car ? I am sure the cop has done this many many times and maybe he/she is a bit jaded by being lied to,but for this kid this is a real incident and not the 4th time this week he has had to kick kids off a train. I can honestly see how a cop in that situation can maybe make the what I think is the incorrect choice but that does not change the fact that it is still the wrong. I would like to think that this was a learning experience for that officer and maybe the next time it isn't just kicking the kids off the train and he/she realizes that these encounters, how ever small they may seem, matter.

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He had no evidence that that one kid was with the others. He made a judgment call and apparently based it on the fact that he looked like the other kids. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume there was no malice behind it, but it was sloppy police work. If they were a bunch of white kids, do you think he'd make the same assessment? I don't know, but I was once in a very similar situation. About 20 plus years ago while on the Red Line heading inbound from Alewife, there were five or six guys (all about my age, white, similar dress as me, etc) sitting next to and across from me being rowdy on an inbound train. The train was held at Central or Kendall and an MBTA police officer got on and told them to get off the train. He looked at me and asked if I was with them, and I said no, and that I didn't know them. He didn't question me about it at all and let me go on my way. He had the option to not believe me and could have kicked me off as well, but he did believe me without question and let me be. I do remember that the cop was exceedingly calm, polite, and respectful to everyone, including the kids he kicked off, so maybe it was an example of a different policing philosophy by him.

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Assuming the kid in question dressed and acted like the other kids in the group.

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If I were the cop and the kids scattered I would just take a seat and ride a few stops. That would cool things down and help everyone get home safely.

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I'm not black but the same thing happened to me when I was a kid. A rowdy group of WHITE kids was causing a ruckus in a local neighborhood and the police were called.

I happened to walk down the street about the same time and the police went right into my face and pointed a Mace pistol at me and told me if I didn't get out of the neighborhood I'd be next.

I said, "I'm not with them, I live right here." Didn't matter. It was get outta Dodge or get Maced. So I turned around and walked a couple of blocks and stayed at a local store where I knew the owner for about an hour then walked home.

So in the heat of the moment, these things can happen. The whole post about kids scattering is also accurate. I've seen that. I've even seen them split up and get on different cars as well.

For what it's worth a relative of mine recently rode home on the Blue line at night only to be confronted by a group of WHITE kids that were acting out in the car and using the straps like monkey bars and doing all kinds of other gymnastics.

So it is a serious shame, given current national issues that this happened, but this is not confined to any one color or ethnic group. To automatically assume this from an internet post is dubious.

But then again... everything we read on the Internet is true, now isn't it.

Personally I was not there.

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Thank you so much for posting this.

BLACK LIVES MATTER

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White Guilt on an increasingly crappy blog.

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n/m

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the last 4 nights of slapping the Trump salami.

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slapping the Trump salami

...the internet.

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... always has to post as "anon"

What are you afraid of? People accurately judging you based on your awesome hot takes on the issues of the day?

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Your parents named you kernelPanic?

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His mom was Unix and his dad was Ubuntu

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i bet you're the type of person who says "the irish were slaves, to [sic]"

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I bet you are the type of person that profiles and spreads slander

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nah, i'm not a republican.

also, i bet that this individual was a moron who tries to equate white indentured servitude to actual slavery - which would be conjecture and is not slander.

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Remind us, oh wise one, who sold blacks into slavery?

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Alex Jones is all done at the RNC. He should be updating again soon. Refresh InfoWars and have a nice day.

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Says the white male (yes, that is an assumption from your response) who has had privilege his whole life. So much so that he can't even admit that yes, this happens every day to people with skin color different from his.

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...is that the conductor actually reported, and police actually responded to, that disruptive, rowdy, rude behavior. Good for them. I wish they would do the same on the B Line. I don't care about their race. The kids who get on at Babcock after the nearby charter school gets out are loud, crude, and disrespectful. They are disturbing the peace. And don't give me the "kids will be kids" crap. We were all kids once. That behavior wasn't tolerated on the school bus. It shouldn't be condoned on public transportation either.

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That behavior wasn't tolerated on the school bus. It shouldn't be condoned on public transportation either.

did you grow up in Mayberry? between grades 6 and 10, i don't believe i ever sat on a school bus that wasn't a disaster of yelling, fighting and juvenile hijinx.

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And when the yelling and juvenile hijinx -- I don't remember any out-and-out fighting -- would get out of hand, the driver would put an end to it. And if it escalated beyond the driver's ability to control, the kids would be disciplined by the school (detention, etc.).

But really, what difference should it make where I grew up? Are you saying that standards of behavior should be lower in an urban environment? Talk about defining deviancy down.

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i'm saying you grew up in either a totalitarian regime or in a fantasy land. fwiw, i grew up in a very affluent suburb. my point is this: kids are shitheads no matter what their stripes are.

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I grew up in Boston and have been taking the T all my life. Disruptive behavior would not have been tolerated on the T when I was a kid in the 60's. Times have changed and, at least as far as public behavior and discourse goes, not for the better.

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we certainly had shit-stirrers on our school bus in 5-6th grade but after that we took the Green line to school and dealt with the same crap that everyone else deals with on the T every day.

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Right.

Not buying it.

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I've ridden the T since I was a high school kid. A group of kids (12, 14, 20) can be loud and rude and crude regardless of color and are. Sometimes they are drunk, sometimes they are just loud. I have seen, in 30 years, cops brought in maybe twice and honestly, just because it is public transit do we need to hear other people shouting and blasting a song from their iphone speaker at a high volume?

Two stories:
-Several weeks ago, my daughter and I were on the green line and it stopped at Kenmore. There was a white family with four kids, aged 6-10, who, when the train cleared and the conducter said it would stand by for 3 mins, began jumping on the seats and bars swinging their legs like it was the playground. One came close to hitting another rider, and the parents were all 'be careful!' the rider also white, walked out, and came back with a cop from the platform who shouted at the kids to knock it off and it wasn't a playground and asked where their parents were and told them tell the kids to act right and sit down. The parents rolled their eyes and told the kids to sit. They got off the next stop. Should people have just accepted it?

Several years ago on the red line going towards Ashmont, group of black teens (12-16 I'd guess) were being loud, cursing, trying to grab some other girl's purse, and a T worker came on and told them to ease up, and they cursed at him (he was also black) and told him to go work at McDonalds or some nonsense, so they stopped the train at JFK and two cops come on, and a similar scene unfolded where they were told to get off the train, and two of the group did the 'whole I don't know these n-words!!" even though they were the instigators. So...either you can have kids being kids, or you use your judgement based on what you know. A few folks shouted out 'yes they are!' and they were all taken off the train, cursing and calling the cops pigs and eff you all, etc.

I truly believe that there is an issue with the cops and blacks, but anyone who is surprised by this is either stupid or never listened to rap songs from 25 years ago. That doesn't mean all blacks are criminals, and that doesn't mean all cops are going to shoot a black person. Does shouting 'black lives matter!' every time a black person acts badly or has an encounter with police give them a pass? Suddenly a bunch of douchey kids are victims?

People want to talk about how divided America is. Why don't you go to Europe and see how blacks are treated? How about tribal warefare and poverty in Africa, do you cry for every person of color murdered because of a tribal feud when the government falls? What about southeast asia when the governments murder criminals with no trial.

BLM has turned into an anti-policre rant - and as a person who isn't black, a loud black person acting like a thug on the subway, is the same as a loud white person, or a loud asian person, acting like a thug on the subway - a possible danger.

If you don't want to be labelled, stop acting like a stereotype. Its the subway, sit your ass down, and keep the convo free of curses and at a reasonable volume.

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I liked your post but would like to add an incident I had on the T. Very crowded train and my friend and I got separated. There were a large group of young men all wearing similar colored hats and such. They were a bit rambunctious and I just kept to myself kinda hoping they wouldn't notice me. Well they did. I heard a "Ma'am, would you like my seat?:" It made my day and reminded me to not judge a book by its cover.

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Screw (not literally) Europe and Africa, right now we need to fix home. This country has been focusing on every other contries issues. While our Land is going to shits.

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I'd like to believe this story is true, but I don't, although I notice it has been shared 36,000 times from her FB page. Was there anyone else on the train or a police log?

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The is no one who can variety this because it was exaggerated if not entirely made up. No teen and grown adult sat side by site in tears of emotion over this alleged incident. Sorry.

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I am not saying the story is made up. But has there been any independent verification of this incident? I mean this is Mike Barnicle level story telling that perfectly fits a narrative. This reminds of the other famous MBTA story that was on here months ago with the middle eastern woman, that, if i recall correctly, also was never truly verified by anyone.

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She's abusing her write privilege?

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This incident, is just too perfect, and people seem to cling to narratives that they would like to believe.

remember this one?

Same kind of deal. Someone composing a story that they think people would believe and mirrors things they believe happen, and that they know will get retweeted, shared and spread without question.

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Doesn't pass the smell test.

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How they formed, through pain, a common bond.

Just aren't enough stories like that.

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Thanks for the link. Its interesting reading the comments on that past incident. Many posters were wrong then.

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Once upon a time we had journalists who would fact check things before reporting them. Professionals for whom skepticism was always the first instinct.

Now we have bloggers that cut and paste from Facebook feeds.

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seriously. I know people want to believe this story because it matches their perception of the world. But there are just so many fishy parts to it. It would be crazy to believe this story on face value. The bigger problem about blasting this tale out without even looking for verification is that you are essentially calling a few Transit PD officers racist. What happens if this turns out to be fake? will every person who read and shared it become aware of the fake that this writer completely lied?

it also seems kinda shady this person, is a writer, and has this post right above a post about her blog with her writings... and is now on her blog with her writings....

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HA!! Boy, that Charles-Stuart-believing fabulist phony got HIS comeuppance though. He...wait a minute... :-/

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Love to see the well-deserved Barnicle-bashing. When is karma ever going to catch up with that man? I mean, yeah, it IS only "Morning Joe," which no one would mistake for valuable news and commentary. But seeing him treated as a respected pundit and invited to pontificate anywhere, about anything, is insulting.

I'm curious -- did he have the balls to opine at all about Melania's plagiarism scandal?

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White privilege? Do all white people experience this phenomenon called "white privilege" ?? Or was it an attempt to attract and increase the number of racist comments to this post? I am white and in no way do I experience so-called white privilege. Especially on the Orange Line!! LOL Go ahead. Block me.

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It's a click and bait post. There is not even proof this "witness" is credible

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If you are white, then yes you do experience white privilege. I can't believe the amount of people in these comments that don't think racism exists.

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Failure to acknowledge white privilege is in it self racist!

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Bear with me. It is a long tale. But one that is necessary to read and digest.

The authors tone sounds like attention-seeking. The writing is long-winded (embellished?), and terrible.

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the day before this all happened. She posts the announcement of her new writing blog... and that she is a writer?

What are the odds?

A good shareable story that people want to believe, and resonates with her audience, and it is placed right above the post about her new blog.

That is most certainly a coincidence right?

Me thinks she is going to get a good lesson about about how gullible people are.. and how forgiving they can be if they truly want to believe your tale

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I thought the same thing.

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It is really, really badly written. If her aim was to show how a group of black kids fears for their lives any time the police show up - even if the police end up just telling them to knock it off and board the next train - she failed, because all she did was write about how Woke and Bae she is for talking to a black kid on the train. Whether this is a true story or one she made up, she really botched the telling.

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The story isn't confirmed. The incident is. If anything the articles addressing the situation and the Transit Police report actually don't support her narrative. They state that the kid was off the train when he told them he wasn't a part of the group. This was verified by the group and an independent passenger.

Ms Davenport claims that she yelled at the police while the boy was on the train and that's why he was able to remain and sit back in his seat.

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Hahah! This article is such garbage! Adam you are white... Get over it!!!!

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This sounds completely unbelievable to me. How many times have you seen a pack of loud and rowdy kids on the T, and how many times have you seen them get kicked off? Kids, black and white, are obnoxious on the T every single day. But I've never seen anyone alert a conductor over rowdy kids. That's just part of public transportation. I've seen a lot worse on the T, people who were loud and angry and threatening, and even then I can probably count on one hand the number of times I've seen someone actually kicked off a train in the last 15 years. And then the girl swears at the cop and he responds nicely because she's white? Okay.

I don't doubt that this sort of thing happens, but I really don't believe it happened on the T or that this girl witnessed anything like this.

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Denying white privilge is almost akin to denying the holocaust. One can't possibly deny it unless they enoy or enjoyed it's benefits.

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You are out of your mind. This social justice stuff has gotten out of hand. Get a fucking grip.

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Today I learned that to deny a white person may have an easier time hailing a cab than a black person is akin to denying that millions were gassed to death in an attempted genocide.

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Any Red line users recall a significant delay last night? She says the train was parked at South Station for "around half an hour" - that would lend to serious delay. No reference to what time this happened other than at night, but I can't imagine it was that late if we are talking about 12 year old kids as she says.

http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/blog/2016/07/22/mbta-black-lives-matter/

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If the MBTA has the correct twitter handle, etc, Jamie Lynn Davenport is an actress. And a writer. Playwright.

Not saying it didn't happen - because it could have - but her resume gives me suspicions.

The thing has gone pretty viral already. Maybe that's her plan.

http://www.jamielynndavenport.com/

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I have to admit--the whole thing reeks of self-dramatization to me and seeing the blog doesn't help. But who knows? At least part of it really happened but parts of it just don't ring true to me.

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Check Dic Donohue's twitter. He is roasting the story, and roasting Boston Magazine's follow up with her. Even Boston Magazine and the author are saying, "well this not about how the cops acted, it is about how the kids were afraid of them."... even she is saying the cops did not act inappropriately... she got caught in a lie, or gigantic embellishment, and knows it

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