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Underage Northeastern, BU kids make it harder for foreigners to get a drink at venerable Fenway watering hole
By adamg on Tue, 03/21/2017 - 11:38am
Punter's Pub, 444 Huntington Ave., no longer accepts foreign IDs from people wanting a drink, due to an incident last month in which police found three underage students drinking draft beer after showing what turned out to be fraudulent foreign IDs.
At a Boston Licensing Board hearing this morning, pub owner Stephen Newman listened as BPD detectives testified that shortly before 1 a.m., they conducted an inspection and promptly found two Northeastern students and one BU student downing beers even though all were 20 or younger. They used fake IDs from Nicaragua, Guatemala and Mexico, the detectives testified.
"This is obviously a difficult area," given that the pub is surrounded by Northeastern - which actually bought the building in December - Newman's attorney, Dennis Quilty said. But Quilty said Newman has fought the good fight for the 47 years he's owned the pub. As part of that, Newman said he and his staff are no longer accepting out-of-country IDs as proof of age.
Newman acknowledged the pub will still accept out-of-state IDs - and backup IDs if necessary.
BPD Sgt. Det. Robert Mulvey, though, said that even with backup ID - typically credit cards or college IDs, neither of which show the bearer's age - pub employees who still feel uncomfortable should tell the patrons to go downtown and get an official Massachusetts state ID, if they really are of age. Under Massachusetts law, the only fully acceptable IDs are Massachusetts driver's licenses and IDs, US passports and military IDs.
The board decides Thursday what action, if any, to take.
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Comments
Massachusetts law
As a non-driver but enthusiastic imbiber, I have been turned away from various pubs/bars for having a MA ID...I'm in my 40s and it makes no difference.
Ironically, I had less of an issue when I was underage using a fake ID from RI...
I never understood this
Is the point to be over 21, or have a 'valid' ID? If you look 40, I assume you obviously look older than 21. I know of people who have been turned away because of expired ID's, and for having no ID. But again if I obviously look of age, what difference does it make?
Also this would suck for tourists, but I guess that would only matter if Boston was a world class city that actively sought out and encouraged foreigners to visit.
TONS of foreigners
Visit and live in Boston and the surrounding metro area.
It's about liability, lawsuits, insurance premiums, not residual puritanism. The alcohol drinking and buying age should be dropped back down to 18, the legal emancipation age. It was raised to 21 primarily by pressure from do-gooders, many of them 'progressive' (ditto the war against any and all tobacco and nicotine even vapes and Swedish snus).
Sarcasm my friend
And it's about laws, period. Does an insurance company care if a legal adult is served a drink without an ID? Of course not. What liability exists for serving an adult a drink they asked and paid for? And who can sue for serving an adult a drink?
If you're 30, and can produce an ID, expired or not, you should be able to buy a drink.
US passport
It's a pain to carry around, but it will work.
There is a US passport card, about the same size as a license, and is valid for land travel between the US and Canada and Mexico. More convenient, but you might have the same problem, bars won't know what it is and refuse service.
There was a time when MA IDs
There was a time when MA IDs were NOT considered acceptable forms of ID for drinking. You were supposed to get a MA Liquor ID card, which looked just like the MA ID and DL card but said Liquor ID, if you did not have a MA DL. I believe that they have discontinued issuing liquor IDs now.
Asinine, I know.
They still issue liquor IDs,
They still issue liquor IDs, but the non-liquor ID is now equally valid for buying alcohol.
The difference is that the liquor ID doesn't meet federal requirements for boarding planes, etc. You MIGHT not need a social security number to get a liquor ID.
Mass ID vs Liquor ID
When I moved here in 1987 I didn't know there was a special liquor ID and only got the MA ID. Had problems for years when I would get carded; when I got a U.S. passport I used that for liquor purchases. The old MA IDs did not have an expiration date, I finally got a replacement just a few years ago, because I couldn't afford to renew my passport at the time. The new MA IDs expire after 5 years and on the (increasingly rare) occasions when I have been carded it has been accepted.
I was going to ask if you use
I was going to ask if you use a non-driver ID or a liquor ID. But since 2012, both are acceptable under the law protecting businesses for accepting them as proof of age.
Hope they're not too hard on him
Steve's done a great job managing to keep the underage kids from destroying his business over the years. I was a regular there throughout college (started school after I turned 21) and still go back once in a while. That bar is one of the last great dives in this town, and he should be rewarded for not selling out and letting his license go to yet another generic downtown bar with $9 beers. Given that it's almost certainly going out of business in less than 2 years, he deserves a break.
I love Punter's, too
But, it was sold the end of last year to NEU - who reportedly will be putting dorms up there in a not too distant future.
Report on sale
Link to Globe article reporting on the sale:
https://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2016/12/23/punters-pub-could-become...
I say this over & over
But fake IDs are INCREDIBLE with the technology in this day in age. The students (patrons using them) should be the ones disciplined & in a more serious manner. You can't put pressure on a bartender to feel the need to call the police / refuse to serve every time someone who looks on the younger side asks for a drink with an out-of-state / foreign ID, ESPECIALLY in a city with such an enormous of-out-state / foreign student population like Boston.
What type of fake ID were they using?
Were they using passports? They would be pretty hard to fake, I think. And how would the detectives be able to tell? Same if they were national IDs or driver licenses from another country, would they know what they look like?
I've been with foreign friends and despite all of us being, and looking, well over 21, they could not come in since they did not have an ID with them.
When I travel I usually leave my passport in my room, in the safe if there is one.
The question of how they could tell came up
Since the bar owner said they were very realistic. Sgt. Det. Robert Mulvey said he did what he usually does in such cases where he's doubtful: Ask a series of questions about the person's identity. He didn't specify what questions he asked that convinced the three (all of whom now face criminal charges of being minors in possession of alcohol and lying to police - because they initially all said they were over 21) this time, but in the past he's done stuff like asking people what their Zodiac signs are, even what their Zip codes are (obviously that wouldn't be something he'd ask somebody with a Guatemalan ID).
What happens if people
What happens if people exercise their right to remain silent?
To the bar owner?
They get to remain silent outside the bar.
I would imagine the cops would have probable cause and whatnot, but this is about the owner dealing with possible fake IDs.
I meant being silent to the
I meant being silent to the cop.
If you are in fact underage, does the cop have to trap you by asking voluntary questions about your ID details?
If you're not underage, and don't feel like playing "this is your life" with a cop, can you just say "no thanks" and walk away?
It's an interesting question
One could remain silent, but the cop could have probable cause for arrest, no? (and by "no?" the implication is that I am legal scholar.) I guess one has the right to remain silent, but then again do you really want to pay a visit to the station house because you got caught using a fake ID?
Had no idea that counted as The Fenway
I never knew that the inbound side of Huntington counted as Fenway. Not complaining though, so long as realtors don't start calling it FeWa.
Foreign passports are also
Foreign passports are also acceptable under state law. https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter138/Sect...
Strange combos
I have always found it weird that a US Green Card isn't acceptable, even though a Green Card holder is always required to have it, wouldn't necessarily need any of the other IDs if he/she didn't drive and wouldn't be likely to carry a foreign passport.